Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post03 Nov 2015

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because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post03 Nov 2015

Congratulations Mann.

When I really feel happy for your courageous and wise decisions, at the same time i am interested to know the reactions of your Seniors. Did they threaten you for the future consequences or did they relieved you happily with good wishes for your future? I don't think they might have changed in these 5 years (I left in 2010). They let me go with few comments like "weaker brick"; "low status in heaven"; "will regret in future" etc etc. I did not bother ...

Good luck to you.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post03 Nov 2015

Once the news goes up the chain, the centre-wassi will likely be advised by a senior on 'yuktis’ to get you back in touch with invitations to involve you again. Just say thank you for the invitation but don't accept.

I actually had a phone call just today with exactly that - an invitation "whenever you have the time, if you ever feel you need a break, come on up here (to the BK retreat centre) ... I said 'thank you for the invitation' and no more. The person was obviously waiting for something more like ”yes, I will when I can” or something else positive but when I didn’t they repeated the invitation again in different words. Again I said just the same ”Thank you”, and no more. They mumbled something further and hung up. And this was after I hadn't been inside a BK centre or to any event for many years.
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post03 Nov 2015

because.parmeshwar wrote:They let me go with few comments like "weaker brick"; "low status in heaven"; "will regret in future" etc etc. I did not bother ...

Good luck to you.

Yes, good luck, be constructive, enjoy your life, and help others.

I am interested about your interpretation of their response too ... what was written on their faces.

When I first began to wobble and stopped going to daily class, I got the kind of letter Because mentioned telling me how I was going to "cry tears of blood and grind my teeth like the sound of mustard seeds when Destruction happened" (Destruction was meant to be around 1986 back in those days). It was a literal quote from the Murli. I smiled at it as I thought it was sweet and only the center-in-charge's way of showing love, but the ideas of terror, failure and repentance were drip fed into our sub-consciousness and must have had an effect upon us.

When I actually left, I just left quietly and no one came looking for me. I could have killed myself - and a few ex-BKs have - and they would not have known or cared. As Because says, strictly speaking that would only be a sign of what a "weak brick" I was, and served as a warning to other BKs of the terrible fate that awaked BKs if they left.

It is tough for some when the BK world has become their only world, because they have cut off from the rest of their family and society, and have no friends or support networks. One's mind is made very alien and separate towards the rest of "impure and degraded" humanity.

For me, that was not the case. I really enjoyed the freedom of being able to go out, explore new opportunities, meet new people, and remake myself ... and especially rest. To sleep in at the weekends! It was like being freed from a strange prison. I was alive again and all the time and energy I was pouring into their system, I was able to invest in my own life.

My health improved greatly.

It is amazing that you can give 100% of your free life and spare money, and then afterwards ... it is all worth nothing to them. Not even a "Thank you" or going away present. It's, "We'll have all that. You'll get nothing back. Now go away and leave us, you don't exist. You have failed and are impure now!". But this was before the internet and so we were not all subject to emails and phone texts. You may find you are still on their spam lists and need to stop them sending stuff.

It concerns me that young (poor) Indian girls are trapped in the BK system simply because they have no money, no real skills, no education and no escape route.

How can they leave if they want to?

At one point I actually went back, spoke to the senior Sisters and admitted I was having relationships and so on. One's response was so serious, it was shocking. God knows why. It was as if I had admitted to killing someone or something it was that bad! So serious and condemnatory, I felt. It was weird how they felt they had such a right of judgement over my life. The other remained "loving" but was obviously a bit embarrassed by it and just smiled I thought a bit nervously.

It was a horrible experience to put myself through and I don't recommend doing so. I suppose it was their response to not have power over me.

In all the years since I have left, and before starting this website, I've only met one "live" BK and they were obviously very nervous of me as I was no longer under the influence of BKs and exploitable in any way. Sadly, despite "knowing" each other for years we could have no conversation with each other. They could only say BKisms. I was in good shape at the time. I had not died. They looked rough and as tired as ever.

The BKs tried to shut this website down and during their legal threats they also held out their usual "carrots" or bait, as in Pink Panther's case. For example, I got invitations to come to for spiritual chitchat to correct my views, to visit their luxury mansion in the country, or even go to Madhuban. But I had seen their internal emails discussing us and so I knew what they were really thinking and saying amongst themselves, and what their real attitude was.

On one hand, they believe the "vibrations" will suck you back in again and you'll come running back Baba "before the end"; on the other hand, it's their way of managing and controlling you and your opinions about them, keeping you close or "serviceable" in case you become a risk or damaging to their reputation.

Quite a few Western BKs enjoy privileged treatments and access to BK facilities and, in that way, I would argue, the BKs avoid more criticism and free and open discussion about themselves.

If they cannot have 100% of you, they'll take 90% ... 60% ... 30% ... 10% ... whatever they can get. That's what they have learned now. It my day, and I guess in some centres still, it was 100% or 0.

But it's all just more manipulation of others which they would call "service". As in 'serving their interests', not yours or societies. Their response all depends on how high up you were, and "skilful" and experienced your local centre is at people management. Now it seems that if they cannot get you as a BK, they will use you as a half-BK on some half-BK project like valve education or management training.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post04 Nov 2015

For example, I got invitations to come for spiritual chitchat to correct my views, to visit their luxury mansion in the country, or even go to Madhuban.

They would say, ex-l , that this disproves that they show no interest as you claim, and that they are endeavouring to stay in touch. The naive might believe them.
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Mr Green

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post04 Nov 2015

don't look back
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post05 Nov 2015

Mr Green wrote:don't look back

... with or without anger?

May be a little seriousness at the loss of time is OK?

From 1995 ... 20 years ago now.

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Mr Green

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post05 Nov 2015

good song that one

Mann

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post06 Nov 2015

Thank you for the congratulation and best wishes !

I have some family issues too which come in my way if I choose to continue being at the center. So when I explained all of it, plus my own discomfort, the center-in-charge heard me peacefully. She was surprised and a bit disappointed too because I was playing a key role in expanding services. But they hope in sometime I will be back ... I have not clarified, either.

Yes, I did receive offers such as to continue living in the same city or else come back on weekends etc etc .. But I knew what it meant. And they too have understood.

I am still at the center, I need few things to be fixed before I leave, so my farewell is planned to be in a few days. Yes, it means being on the stage ... getting a tilak, flowers/gifts .. and making a short speech too ;).

No, no one made comments like, "you are going to cry tears of blood", "low status", "weak brick" ... I cannot imagine ever somebody teaching peace-bliss to speak in such a way ... Everybody around (only a very few know as of now) wishes me good luck for my future plans ...

Thank you again for participating in my journey ...
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post06 Nov 2015

Mann wrote:No, no one made comments like, "you are going to cry tears of blood", "low status", "weak brick" ... I cannot imagine ever somebody teaching peace-bliss to speak in such a way ...

It comes directly from the Sakar Murli, so it's their Baba or Lekhraj Kirpalani who said it originally.

You can tell them about us if you like and how many BK are leaving, also becoming married and to each other, e.g. BKs marrying, in the rest of the West. It would be good to mention all the discoveries we have made about the revisions in the history and Murlis.

I am glad it was so smooth for you, perhaps the BKs are maturing. Perhaps it was just because you were wealthy and a useful asset for them.

Unfortunately that is not a universal condition, especially for the poor sevadhari Sisters and Brothers.

It would be good if there was some fund or training for them to help them get back into society and that, for example, their dowries were held in trust for them in case they ever wanted to leave.

The BKs could use the interest from all the dowries they have taken, but they should give back the bulk sum if asked for.

I think it is very ethical for them to demand young girls dowries.

Best of luck with the future. Enjoy life.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post06 Nov 2015

If someone has told them he is moving out of the centre, that is not so uncommon nor seen as bad.

If it's said outright that one is leaving the BK life, leaving Gyan, does not believe Baba is God etc that would get a different response. I don’t think the latter is better, it’s best to let them believe you are merely changing residence and that you have less time. Then if they badger you about attending more, (repeating myself) just say 'thank you for the invitation’ and promise nothing. Eventually you will have slipped from their consciousness, they’ll be busy with new recruits and their daily little dramas.

Comments about low status etc will only ever be said behind your back, unless they want to be particularly nasty.
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Mr Green

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post06 Nov 2015

When I went someone I considered a friend lent over and whispered in my ear, "your just going on holiday!" I found that very hurtful but looking back now he probably meant it nicely

maria

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post07 Nov 2015

Yeah, Mr.Green. He probably did.

And congratulations Mann, I feel happy for you!

Mann

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post15 Nov 2015

Thanks Maria !

I have finally left the center. Nobody wanted me to leave. The students/followers were nearly in tears ... I was given a beautiful farewell, received many gifts and blessings too. I was invited to dinner by one of "the Seniors" of the Yagya. I had a long conversation with them. And I used the opportunity to clear questions I have read here.
In short the answers are as follows :

    1. Yes BapDada did speak of destruction to have happened in 1976 but it did not happen because Brahmins were not ready. After that there was no mention of destruction ever again.
    2. ShivBaba did incarnate in Baba Lekhraj's body in 1936. But no Murlis have been preserved from 1936 to 62. The ones in circulation are from 63 to 68.
    They said nobody made an effort at keeping the original ones safe.. They accepted it was unfortunate.
    3. Nobody should demand money,property from someone. If some did donate without considering for themselves it was wrong. ( I could sense dishonesty here)
Well ... there are parts of knowledge which I really find very useful and some parts which are not. I have to handpick and collect in my trolley in this supermarket of spirituality.

The last few days of living outside the center seems different as if I have woken up from coma ... But it's nice, refreshing. I was in most of the dharnas even before I got in Gyan and I would continue so.

Coincidentally my Brother too was reading from this website ... !
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post15 Nov 2015

Mann wrote:1. Yes BapDada did speak of destruction to have happened in 1976 but it did not happen because Brahmins were not ready. After that there was no mention of destruction ever again.

I mention this not to criticise but to point out their nature.

This is absolutely not true. I was part of the Murli Team in the 1980s and during the 1980s it was written in the Murlis, "50 years for Destruction (1986), 50 years for Creation". It then got changed to "50 to 60 years" (1986 to 1996), after which I life. However, I do know and others have witnessed here there was great excitement for the Year 2000 with senior BKs announcing it and encouraging BKs to take money out of banks etc.
2. ShivBaba did incarnate in Baba Lekhraj's body in 1936. But no Murlis have been preserved from 1936 to 62. The ones in circulation are from 63 to 68.

Again, not true. We have early documents from the 1930s and 40s and they were called the "Divine Decrees". There was no mention of Shiva until after 1956. It is very clear there was no knowledge of any separate being. Lekhraj Kirpalani was God.
3. Nobody should demand money, property from someone. If some did donate without considering for themselves it was wrong

Ha. In the villages they pressurise the poor to hand over their jewellery, they've fought legal battles to keep donated property when BKs have asked for it back, and yet at the same time, when the family of BK leader's ask for property back, they get it.

Anyway, good luck, have fun and live an interesting life now.

Best wishes and be free. They were using and exploiting your goodness and spirituality, not giving you anything.

Mann wrote:I was in most of the dharnas even before I got in Gyan and I would continue so.

Coincidentally my Brother too was reading from this website ... !

Me too, and I am grateful for it. It left me feeling I owned them rather than owed the BKs.

Say hello to your Brother from me!
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