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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 17 May 2017
by Mann
Thanks for reading my story and replying too ... How kind !

Sometimes I wonder if leaving or trying to The Knowledge is good idea. It can be used like a drug, to make you happy instantly without the side-effects of the addictions. I can pick and choose what I like in BKism. May be this is the right of living a life free of vices ... yes, I agree vices are the cause of suffering. May be reading and posting here is Maya ...

But, at other times, watching all this plunder in the name of God depresses me and I would want to run immediately. Hmmm ... I am feeling torn between two opposite decisions. I feel I don't have the strength to face the reality. I don't know ... I wish I could talk to somebody who has been through similar feelings.

Can I talk to somebody over skype?

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 17 May 2017
by Pink Panther
Who says what a vice or a sin is ? You, based on your experience, or a "patriarchal authority" based organisation that seeks to make you feel inadequate and infantile?

There’s is one simple rule that is found in all traditions and cultures. In Christianity, it's called The Golden Rule” - do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Confucious said it as ”do not do to others what you would not like done to you”. The Buddha told his son Rahula, ”Before you act, ask yourselfwill this benefit me and the other person'?". If the answer is yes, go ahead. Ask yourself, ”will this harm me or the other person”. If the answer is yes, abstain.

Apply this to yourself. Is what I am doing, regardless of how it makes me feel, harming me? If the answer is yes, stop that. Now addictions are by definition difficult. There are different techniques that work for different people but the main precondition for any of them is that the "addict" has to really want to change that behaviour.

One thing to try is to, rather than focus on the BKs who satisfy some ”need” then leave you feeling compromised, ask yourself what kind of life you would like, what you would likely be doing in life if you never encountered the BKs and you had gotten your act together? Did you have some talent or interest you wanted to develop, some profession you felt a calling to, a feeling for social justice, or maybe family? You can work toward whatever it is, and go wholeheartedly into it the way you did with BKs.

The difficulty many have when they want to leave BKs is that they do not put in the same amount of effort into creating new ”sanskaras” as they did when they wanted to create BK ”sanskaras”.

One ex-BK I know in his middle age has studied a full time course and is now a qualified nurse. Now there’s a way to serve humanity, practice compassion, tolerance etc in a real way, not just in your head!

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 17 May 2017
by ex-l
Mann wrote:yes, I agree vices are the cause of suffering.

I strongly disagree.

There are 10,000 causes of "suffering" ... genes, brain chemistry, childhood/familial psychology, socio-economic factors, geography etc ... "bad luck" is mostly utterly random and caused by factors *way* beyond our control. We live in a vast, expanding and random universe caused by a big bang millions of years ago ... much of what happened since is purely down to chance determined by physics and chemistry.

Of all the causes, clearly poverty and its by-products ... poor health, lack of education and opportunity etc ... is the greatest. I don't believe in everything being the fruit of one's karma at all. It's largely just a tool of social control.

Had the BKs remained in Abu without begging any wealth and income, they would be the most miserable people in the world ... more miserable than even the tribals who live there and they use to break stones and do the hard labour for them ... and dead now.

The BKs don't even teach the truth of their religion and "happiness". The truth of their religion is, "acquire money, property and land however you can (and live relatively modestly)". The rest is just a code, a brainwash, a trap to hook people in to managing the former.

A largely arbitrary set of rule the purpose of which is to test your willingness to submit to them, and to reinforce your submission to them.

Submit to them and you are rewarded, question or challenge them and you are punished ... even if you are absolutely right.

As you well state, once your eyes are open to what is going on, then it's a question for your own conscience ... whether you can stomach it all, and keep the hamster wheel oiled, and enjoy carrying out your role in their confidence trick.

And part of that is stomaching privileges over others, e.g. the privileges Westerners have over Indians, rich over poor, educated over uneducated women for whom they do little but turn into servants or, as I call them, "slaves". Whether you are willing to do u nto others what they did and taught to you, e.g. the strict center-in-charge drilling the young kunya.

(Slavery is any system which allows individuals to own, traffick and inherit other individuals who work without rights and remuneration. BKism may be a "sweet" slavery for many, we may be bound by mental chains rather than physical ones, but a slavery all the same).

The "vices" are really no big thing, certainly not as big a thing as the BKs paint. Moderation is the key.

Start with an onion in white sauce and move on to some human love and affection ... they won't kill you.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017
by Mann
The last month at the center has been an eye opener!! I knew the system is dishonest, corrupt but still at the bottom of the heart I believed that I have received a lot of love from BKs ... I am glad I woke up to the reality.

I could not sleep properly at night since amongst so many Sisters living at the center. One or another would wake up to drink water or go to the loo at the night. Since I am a light-sleeper, I would wake up and then couldn't sleep again. Because of worrying about the their lie and about my own future, I developed peptic ulcer. I had already told the SS at the center that I had decided to leave the center for good ... Now when they realised that I am of no more use to their center, I saw the true colours. She not only became rude and insulting but started to keep valuables locked from me! As if I'll steal them and run ... Hilarious !

I asked one of the doctors who come regularly to the center for her opinion on the pain associated with the ulcer. The SS not only ignored my talk but instead said that now that as I am going to my own home town, I can start the treatment there itself. Basically, she did not want to spend anymore on me ... In fact, she insulted me in front of others by accusing me of not doing anything at the center. But I continued my assaults too, by bringing to the attention of others the unhealthy life style at the center ...

Though it's a different issue, nobody reacted to my concerns. In fact, on such occasions I have seen others support the SS or pretend as if they were deaf and continue to "didi-worship" after I stopped speaking ... Brainwashed !

They may think I am becoming full of Maya..

Just two days ago I was in so much pain that I had to go and see a doctor. When I told her about it, she completely ignored me and, 10 minutes later, I discovered both the Sisters went for a walk on the sea-side, leaving me to read the Murli to the evening class in pain ... I bought antacid on my own and read the Murli.

I have brought lakhs to the centers I have been in. Even when the donors clearly expressed that they weren't BKs and wanted to give the donation to me personally, I honestly directed it back to the BKs bank account ... every penny of it.

I am feeling so hurt and exploited ... The BKs are cruel, stone-hearted monsters ...

I have noticed that this thread gets on an average 1000 views in 10 days ... So I want to bring this to the notice of those who are reading this.

What you see on the media about the BKs is complete lie ... They are only concerned about milking the rich while using the poor to do so. Exploitation at both the ends.

They are editing the Murli to brainwash people into giving the body-mind-wealth (tan-man-dhan) to the Yagya. I was once in a meeting where one of the senior Brother asked the group on their opinions about the editing in Murli. I was shocked (3 years ago)...!!

I thought the Murli was the God's words for us ... No, it's the deadly tool written by a team in Madhuban keeping in mind the requirements of the time. Just last month when the forms for the Kumaris Training for the teachers training were out, almost every Murli was on how seeking worldly education and career was a waste of time ... because they wanted to brainwash the maximum number to submit the forms for training..

In that meeting, some Sisters even gave their their suggestions about what should be included in the future Murli and what should be deleted !!

The Murli is manmat, not Shrimat !

I have tried to warn 2-3 young girls who come to the center I am in by sharing my experiences, but the bhatti (intense group meditation) washes it off ... This is dangerous !

I am watching these beautiful, well-educated, young, smart women take the same route I took 3 years ago. I cannot shake and wake them, till they come out of the "honeymoon" themselves ...

I wish to come on media and warn everybody about the real face of brahmakumaris ... That will be real service to mankind !!

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017
by Pink Panther
Forget the BKs for now, look after yourself. Please see a qualified medical doctor about your ulcer.

Please note that a peptic ulcer is now recognised as being caused by a specific bacteria and not just a byproduct of stress or diet, and can be treated quickly and effectively. This discovery won the Australian doctor who discovered it a Nobel prize. Left untreated, if it is indeed a peptic ulcer, it can make you very sick and, in extremis, even kill you.

Here is latest update -

Latest Helicobacter pylori breakthrough could lead to eradication of bacteria.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017
by ex-l
Also causes increased cholesterol/atherosclerosis apparently.

Congratulations for waking up. I know it's tough and I know change is tough but it's a great feeling to finally walk free and have all their garbage off your shoulders and out of your head.
Mann wrote:They are editing the Murli to brainwash people into giving the body-mind-wealth (tan-man-dhan) to the Yagya ... it's the deadly tool written by a team in Madhuban keeping in mind the requirements of the time.

Just last month when the forms for the Kumaris Training for the teachers training were out, almost every Murli was on how seeking worldly education and career was a waste of time ... because they wanted to brainwash the maximum number to submit the forms for training.

Interesting insight ... I had never thought about something like that.

What is this about the BKs locking up your private belongings and valuables so that you cannot leave?

Is that common or widespread?

Are surrendered Sisters allowed to have any personal belongings (and even money), and if so what is typical?

Thank you.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 02 Jun 2017
by Arbit

First things first, take care of your health. Modern medicine will eventually discover that stress leads to many ailments, including ulcers (stress weakens the immune system, disabling it from fighting bacteria and viruses). So physically remove yourself from the center, and see a non-BK doctor. Simple medicine and stress-free environment should fix matters in quick time.

I am shocked to hear that Murlis are now edited to primarily further the BK's economic and operational agenda. I wasn't expecting this.

Thanks for sharing your experience. This type of experience is becoming far too common at too many centers.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 09 Jun 2017
by Mann
I left the center for the second time a few days ago ... This time it did not feel tough because I had seen how the "love" of the Sisters changed when they felt I was of no use to them! I am sure this will keep me away forever.

I have joined a NGO doing real service to mankind - taking care of poor, sick people. I have more love from new colleagues than all the BKs put together. Warmth of human affection!

I feel as if I escaped from a prison ... I am happy ... I am free !

Sometimes during evening 7-7:30pm, I feel the pull to meditate again which is followed by the urge to search a center in this city (I relocated for work). Sometimes I do meditate ... and on other times I resist. Like two days ago, I meditated for 15 minutes and I could feel becoming a "medium" for Lekhraj's spirit again, which wanted to convince me it's God. I did not respond but simply disconnected and walked away. To my surprise, all the 5 dogs we have in our campus started barking furiously when I came out of the room. Dogs can sense spirits !!

I hope I am able to be completely liberated from this cord. This energy wants me to convince the chariman of the new company to do the 7 Days course (because he is rich). Horrible!

But most of the days I am happy, cheerful and peaceful :).

Thanks for all the support and encouragement to leave brahmakumaris. ex-l, Pink especially. You are doing it selflessly ..

Hugs and kisses to all :).

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 09 Jun 2017
by ex-l
I think in the first place it's far better to find some other kind of culturally appropriate "stress reliever", than *any* form of meditation or religious practise. Something grounding that requires your attention and takes you out of your mind; music (drumming), dancing, running, pottery ... whatever.

I think we tend to develop a sanskaar (to put it in BK terms) of spacing out and floating away and we need to fight that until that "cord" dissolves away for lack of use or feeding it.

I know, in my own experience, when I went, say, to go and try Buddhist meditation, it was pointless. Right away I would start drifting off into BK meditation. I understand what you mean about "pulls" and "pressures" and many people have related similar experiences, e.g. pressures on their third eye area, headaches, irrational desires, irritated states (arguing with the BK mind within them) etc.

Break a few BK taboos and see how bad they really are, or are not. You'll soon see how exaggerated it all was.

Some of you reading this will laugh but it took me years before I cooked or ate onions and garlic at home. (I had adopted the idea of a sattvic diet before BK). I remember finally eating some and feeling ... no different whatsover. I did not become a lustful, axe murder over night.

Others here will recommend having a beer.

Long baths and really sweating it out are another good one I find, even in a hot climate.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 10 Jun 2017
by Pink Panther
Mann, you’re welcome for my part. More thanks does have to go to ex-l for putting in the hard yards on this forum for so many years, providing research and lengthy personal advice to many people, often with the same recurring issues, giving technical support as well as sharing the years of experience had dealing with the shifty nature of the BKWSU. I won't say tirelessly, I am sure he has had periods of tiredness, that makes it all the more admirable.

And - congratulations Mann. It takes bravery and integrity to admit to oneself that a choice previously made about something as serious as this was in fact a mistake - or at least acknowledge that it has outlived its usefulness. Many long term BKs are unhappy but will not listen to their inner voice, confusing ego for loyalty, or having lost the ability to imagine a life being other than what they have let it become. Sad. Sadder still when they take out on other BKs their frustration with themselves.

Then for you to act on that admission and make the practical change, that involves all aspects of life - social network, residence, work etc is far from easy and takes real courage.

I will second the advice from ex-l to use ”replacement therapy” carefully, i.e. BKs (and any addictive lifestyle) are very hard to just give up as they took so much of our time and we put in so much effort to change the way we think and act into as much ”BK” as we possibly could, so now we need to put in similar effort to change those thought patterns.

Meditation - of any sort - will likely find your thoughts flowing down the same channels formed by years of BK meditation. A fast resets the immune system and the metabolic system, breaks the pattern of eating so that food becomes a conscious choice and not a habit or routine. So too, a meditation ‘fast’ can help get rid of the conditioned way of meditating, the other-wordly, dualistic patterns that do not remove desire but make us always want reality to be different, leaving us wishing, yearning, discontented - needing more meditation ...

I too found spiritual sustenance through creative, physically-based activities - arts, music, martial arts, and in productive work. I found new intellectual nourishment through joining discussion groups on different subjects - Western philosophy, psychology etc. (The internet is a wonderful tool). I have found Chinese forms of exercises like Taoist Yoga, Dao Yin, Nei-Gung etc particularly invigorating. That is, the spirituality of other cultures, and culture itself, is so rich and varied but I was largely ignorant of them before BKs, and in BKs any such explorations are discouraged.

TBH I find anything reminiscent of BKs including vedanta-based Yoga & philosophy somewhat offensive, in their subliminal seduction of the ego. It's like I am an ex-smoker who now finds the smell of cigarettes disgusting!

As for Buddhism, I have found the cross-fertilisation of Taoism and Buddhism found in Ch’an (the Chinese form) and Zen (Japanese) to be much more pragmatic than the Theravadan, as its based in the here & now, and far enough away from the ‘other-level’ obsessions of Vedanta and Abrahamic monotheism to allow me to feel free, independent and a strong individual in this world. I am happy with the mundane, I find the normal extraordinary (!), I rejoice in the burps and farts of babies and the beauty and wisdom of animals ...
ex-l wrote:I did not become a lustful, axe murderer overnight.

That makes me wonder how long it did it take you? :-D

But anyway, for ex-l it was onions, garlic, for you it may be whatever. If it is a BK taboo, whatever it is can be a useful tool to liberate oneself, to find one’s own personally developed values and live by them, to assert one’s freedom from feeling the need to be validated morally by others.

Whether its diet or activity (read novels, see a therapist, go to the cinema, dance in nightclubs, go on dates, socialising in places you previously wouldn't, renew long-lost friendships - just do the things you’ve always wondered about. They will not make you an axe-murderer!

It does sound you have made a good start. Good on you for immediately getting out there with an NGO and helping others. As they say in the UK - more strength to your arm!

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 10 Jun 2017
by ex-l
For the sake of non-Westerners, "axe murderer" is a kind of metaphor, born out of trashy horror movies, of 'the worst possible imaginable person'.

BKism subtly fills your suggestible sub-conscious with all sorts of programming about how terrible things will happen *if* you leave BKism, how you will be literally condemning yourself for eternity, be doomed.

And how only weak or terrible people do so ... "weak bricks in the furnance" ... "lusty dogs" ... "swallowed up by the crocodile of Maya" etc etc etc.

In its narcissistic induldenge it and its god spirit fail to account for people who actually want to do better, want to be better, bigger people, to keep developing, to renounce the ego and status climbing of BKism (all the VIP chasing), to renounce the tawdry culture of dishonesty and manipulation and so on.

To carry on growing, to take care of and fulfill real life responsibilities, to really help others rather than collude to sucking others in, brainwashing and exploiting them.

It's a wonderful liberation for those able to admit they were wrong, and stupid, and egotistical like the BKs too.

The really big lesson in BKism is how and when to leave and doing so successfully. And we support people in that.

I can accept that for some BKism is a liferaft in the stormy sea of life for a while. Unfortunately, for others, the psychopathic element of BKism, it is a control mechanism, a flock of young sheep in a pen for the wolves to come and feed on.

It is my opinion, that in BKism, the wolves have killed the farmer and chased off his sheep dogs.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 10 Jun 2017
by ex-l
I was watching a really terrible Brad Pitt movie 'War Machine' (2017) ... trust me, it is terrible and not worth the effort. Especially because it could have been so good, poingnant and meaningful.

At the end of the movie, after the deposed general he plays is fired for ridiculous incompetence, he is portrayed in his civillian job afterwards ... offering "Executive Leadership Seminars" just like the BKs*. With a whiteboard behind him of all the virtues and values of a good leader ... the joke being, he failed and was fired.

Trust me, by the time your 'thing' is being parodied in satirical Hollywood B movies ... it *really* is over. It *really* is bad.

* (And, of course, let us remember that the BKs "Executive Leadership Seminars", the 'Self Manangement Leadership' programmed and so on, was also started by an (alleged) ex-Special Forces soldier, BK Brian Bacon.)

Accept life for what is, all its ups and down, and remember, we really are not as important as the BKs want us to believe we are. We are just buddhus, not buddhas.

Best of luck.

And never sign up for any "army", as in the ShivShakti Army like BKs call themselves, whose "generals" cannot be fired once the are found incompetent or dishonesty.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 11 Jun 2017
by GuptaRati 6666
Hello Mann,

It is essential to never to think you are not worth much because BKs or a BK Sister or any one else thinks of you that way. When the BK door or gate closes, they love to call it the Gate to Heaven, another door much more positive opens. If the doors, which are positive do not open, we have to look within ourselves and find the keys and open the positive doors.

There are the withdrawal effects, which will pull you sometimes to go to a center. After becoming involved in the non-gyani life, but still spiritual, the withdrawal effects will be reduced to zero or close to zero.

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017
by Maui
I hope you are right, GuptaRati ... I don't as yet see any of that happening ... the pull is too strong. Trying replacement strategies at the moment ...

Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

PostPosted: 20 Sep 2017
by Mann
Hello everyone,

I have been largely doing very well. But I got drawn to the local center inspite of knowing the truth, the reality, the cover-ups. I reasons for getting pulled towards BK center again-
    1. I felt lonely without any family or friends in the new city.
    2. There was no alloted time,space for talking to God. Since my connection to God had been there before BKs, I now felt deprived.
    3. I was perceived strange because of my food habits, clothes (I still wear only white) by my new colleagues. So I was seeking like minded company.
    4. There were problems at work which caused stress and the easiest, economical stress buster seemed to Baba's room.
    5. I was missing the attention showered on the surrendered Sisters aka "being a guru", public speaker.
    6. Thoughts of getting on with life like others backfired because of the partial belief in not becoming a "Shudra".
So, basically, I stayed away from the center less than few weeks. And then the 3rd honeymoon phase began. I found few BKs my age who are trying to understand the Gyan and I became the teacher or medium or the BK god-spirit/ spirits again ... This entity is so mean and selfish. I was gifted a short period of 3rd honeymoon to become a better medium, to give these students experiences to cement their faith in BKism. But since I am unable to wake up at 03:30 anymore, I am back to my natural though process.

The rational, logical thought process. That all this is a clever psychic plot to hook new people in, give the older ones a little cookie when they teach and then dump them, like used tissue paper. I am amazed that I can fall into the same trap thrice.

When I came back to the BKs the second time, I wrote my thoughts from which I am quoting key points - "not waking up at Amrit Vela, not attending or reading the Murli, having negative thought about Yagya, suspecting Baba to be the real God, viceful rhoughts" are some. And, surprisingly, on coming back on the 3rd time made me feel the same.

The only exception is when I teaching. I feel amazing. The old light of love, peace envelopes me and dumps me few minutes after the teaching is over ... I feel abused psychically ... It's horrible.

I want to break free ... Really want to end all this. I want to live normally ...