Do BKs treat agyanis (non-BKs) as Shudras?

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ex-l

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis as shudras?

Post28 Aug 2008

But agyani does not mean "newcomer" ... it means "ignorant" (without knowledge). You try to deceive us yet again.

Surely the "power to adjust" is the power to adjust to Shrimat (not manmat) which, for example, tells BK followers that they can all have Murlis to read at home. And yet the BKWSU denies them? What love is that?

Again, the so-called "love" of BKs is not love at all. It is conditional, controlling, manipulation and patronising. No one feels loved by someone patronising them.

So, no. No to it being "love" for the "ignorant Shudras" and, no to "patience" with the ignorance within the BKWSU.
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bansy

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis as shudras?

Post28 Aug 2008

The answer is, yes.

Someone has to be the Shudra, otherwise the term would not come up in the first place.

I did not even know that such things as "shudras" existed before coming into Raja Yoga. What an embarrassment it is to admit that, even in Godly scriptures such as Murlis, that God (as per BKWSU) himself would mention as such when surely all souls in this world are his own children? Yes, BKs, your Brothers and Sisters in this world are shudras.
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ex-l

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis (non-BKs) as Shudras?

Post29 Aug 2008

I think to read the old material is to understand the core of the Brahma Kumaris mindset. There are a lot of good and fairly (and already) enlightened people attracted to BK Raja Yoga who are very uncomfortable with these attitudes.

I also think that the BKWSU, or even the spirit behind it, is constantly morphing ... adopting and changing to external circumstances ... and it has picked up a lot of the language and attitudes of the interfaith world ON THE OUTSIDE. In my opinion, it has become very skilled at representing itself falsely. I do not think we should be seduced by the projection of what it says it is, or even thinks it is, but look at the reality.

Yes, some good people within are able to maintain a degree of normality, friendship etc. But it is encouraged except for evangelism. Some BKs can even eat their mothers food (thought it is strictly not allowed and they probably give it lots of extra dristhi, or staring at it, to "purify" it). Non-BKs are impure, evil, ignorant and dangerous, and to be kept at a distance where they can be 'conceptually loved' ... unless they can be picked off one by one and gradually processed into become BKs.

Remember, stuff like not eating someone else's food extends NOT JUST to non-BKs but even between senior BKs and junior or weak BKs. They would rather eat a machine's food rather than another human being's food ... honestly, what does that say?

And is there really any science behind it?
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Mr Green

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis as shudras?

Post29 Aug 2008

newlife wrote:So, if it's not God teaching The Knowledge in the Murlis, my question to you is, does God exist and what would he tell us if he does exist? As I understand if you never really accepted The Cycle, surely a major foundation stone of being a Brahmin. Because surely to be an ex-BK you have to be a BK first. Or am I mistaken in this reckoning?

I know for a fact Mike George doesn't accept The Cycle, is he not a BK?

MBHATT,

it says in the Murlis you should only conduct wordly conversation for 3 minutes with shudras, after that it should be seva.

Wither follow Shrimat or don't but don't come on here pretending to be a mouthpiece for Shiva because you are not. You are not following Shrimat. Your intellect hasn't opened.
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newlife

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis (non-BKs) as Shudras?

Post29 Aug 2008

As I understand it, a BK is one who believes it is the Supreme Soul that is teaching and, therefore, believes everything he says is true. But, further more, the moment I think negatively or wastefully about others, I am not a Brahmin but a Shudra. I think the majority of us so-called BKs are for large parts of the day only playing at it. The titles are easy to take but not so easy to be. But that's only my opinion and from one who is a long way away from where I need to be and one whose d, g, and I is barely working on his keyboard (just to add to my dilemma).

Just to add to that our centre is quite a small one and all of us feel the same that the majority of the time we are shudras.

Regards, me
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mbbhat

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis as shudras?

Post30 Aug 2008

bansy wrote: Yes, BKs, your Brothers and Sisters in this world are shudras.

Dear Souls, Baba has said,
"You were Shudra before" and "You are half caste now". So, BKs are the worst shudras in the drama. And they are half Brahmins as they are purusharthis(incomplete). A BK while giving Gyan to others should be in the consciousness that, "I was also Shudra before". Then only he can love and can adjust. Please wait and see. Your doubts and stress will be reduced. Have patience. Let us see untouchability in different religions.

Shudraism (Untouchability) in different religions:-

Hinduism:- Bhagavdgeeta(BG) says anybody can realize God by pure Bhakti. It even says that there is no need to follow any scriptures. There is no force on anybody. [Of course, there may be some contradicting statements in Hindu scriptures].

Christianity or Islamism say one will not get heaven if he does not believe in their prophets. There are even some advertisements which say, “If you believe in Jesus, you and your household will be saved” (household also!). These religions say that anyone who does not believe in their prophets will get everlasting hell of burning fire.

These religions consider other religions to be lower than themselves. Is this not untouchability in belief(Internal) itself? This internal untouchability is by birth(from the beginning). Is this not a manufacturing defect?

In Hinduism untouchability is just external(physical). But even then, there are many cases where Brahmins worship (or give highest respect) shudras like sage Valmiki, Narayana Guru, Kanakadasa(a devotee of deity SriKrishna).

Hinduism believes in Karma Philosophy logically to the highest extent. It says good actions yield good fruit. But Islamism(I think even Christianity also) believes, however good a person may be, if he does not believe in their prophet, he will go to hell!

Christianity says that blood of physical body (of Christ) purifies all the souls (which is separate than body)! See the blind faith. Is it not to say that both soul and body of Jesus are superior to those of other religions?

In Quran, it is written that a Muslim should not develop even business relationship with people belonging to other religions even if their character is good.

Even though there are many sects in hinduism, all live in a single country. Not only that, India has given shelter to all the religions. Hinduism never hates other religions. India has given shelter to all the religions. In fact, Hinduism has given more respect to other religions than to itself. In India, there is special reservation to Christians and Muslims as minorities, (even though at least some belonging to these religions try to diminish Hindus by conversion or throwing bombs to temples)

Can Christianity or Islamism mix with any other religions? If not, is it not a clear indication of EXTERNAL untouchabilty also?

When British ruled India, there were boards, “No entry for Indians and Dogs.” Indians were prevented from traveling in first class compartments in Train (In their own country!). See the level of untouchability!

History says that Englishmen cut the fingers of weavers of Muslin cloth. Tippu Sultan forced many Hindus to eat beef and converted to Islam. Are not these worse than untouchability?

The tolerating power of Hinduism is highest. Even in poverty, Hindus live without much violence.

I had read articles in newspapers accusing Christian missionaries bribing to get convert into Christianity. But in the last year, I personally was informed by a couple that they had been offered money for this. See today’s powerful religion needs support from poor Hindus!
In some places, Christians who supported (or took part) this conversion were not willing to get their children marry the community that got converted. See the boundless untouchability!

So decide yourself whether shudraism is more in Hindu or other religions.
I had read in a newspaper that the AJEEM PREMJEE (a Muslim), one of the richest Indians and the owner of one of the top 300 companies in the world (WIPRO) had been forced to become nude at an Airport in America for a security check. See the respect given by the modern, most civilized, highly educated people! Also see how much fear the highest powerful people have!
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ex-l

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis as shudras?

Post30 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:The tolerating power of Hinduism is highest. Even in poverty, Hindus live without much violence.

We have been through this patriotic nonsense before. Are people supposed to decide on false arguments (again) or look at the facts?

India has the highest murder rate in the world.

    So is that violence excluding murder or violence including murder you are talking about? Or are you just talking rubbish?

(Source: The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems).

Pie chart, here. Look how big India is in comparison to other nations!!!

Of course, Christianity and Buddhism have no caste system which is why so many convert to them. its pretty pathetic to call up crimes from 100 years ago to argue your case.

How can you measure the endless poverty and suffering of the 750,000,000 bound by caste into poverty for lives (living on a dollar a day)?
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mbbhat

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis as shudras?

Post30 Aug 2008

Dear ex-l soul,

I had said that violence due to one caste on the other, not family matters like husband killing wives, or rape cases in society, etc.

I will comment even about these matters slowly, one by one.

India should become poor in the end. It is also a drama plan. This will make people of India to spread to world for employment. Spreading Godly message would be easier. Not only that, when Indian currency loses its value, it would be easier for others to come to India, the birthplace of God easily. These all are Drama plans. It can be revealed slowly.

Thank you for giving the data of number of murders. But, if you take the percentage wise of population of individual countries, are you sure murders due to violence between the castes are maximum in India?
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arjun

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis (non-BKs) as Shudras?

Post30 Aug 2008

newlife wrote:the moment I think negatively or wastefully about others, I am not a Brahmin but a Shudra. I think the majority of us so-called BKs are for large parts of the day only playing at it. The titles are easy to take but not so easy to be.

Very well said. It applies equally to the PBKs.
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mbbhat

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis (non-BKs) as Shudras?

Post30 Aug 2008

The above quote is correct. When one is soul-conscious, he is in Sangamyug (Brahmin), else he is in Kaliyug (Shudra). Very simple. Baba has said this in Murli and every BK will agree with this. This is why I am saying it is wrong to accuse BKs in this matter (the term Shudra).

But BKs do not commit vicious sins like others, so they cannot be called as shudras. Hence half-caste is the right word for good BKs and Baba has said even this in Murlis.
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ex-l

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis (non-BKs) as Shudras?

Post30 Aug 2008

That is yet another fallacy mbbhat ... another "straw man argument" or "moving the goal posts". Your original statement was not about inter-caste violence, it was mere that "Hindus live without much violence." What about the sex slavery and human trafficking? That is mostly inter-caste.

One does not need to violate a powerless, suppressed caste of road diggers and nightsoil carriers ... the job has already been done perfectly for past 1,000 of years.

But let us start with the rate of rape, child sex abuse and human trafficking for prostitution in India, even in temples such as the Devdasi, the young Nepalese girls sent all over India to be raped by higher caste Indians refusing to use condoms.
mbbhat wrote:But BKs do not commit vicious sins like others ...

Of course, they do. You have not been reading the Murlis again. Plus Baba says that for a BK to commit a sin is 100s or 1,000s of time worse.

What are the BKs that beat up the PBKs doing? How about some of the funny money business? I suppose you will argue that when a BK commits a crime they are not a BK for that moment ... and when they go back, then they magically become a BK again!?!
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mbbhat

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Re: Do BKs treat agyanis (non-BKs) as Shudras?

Post30 Aug 2008

Dear ex-l soul,

When I write on topic Karma Philosophy, most of these topics will be covered automatically one by one. Thank you for having so much interest with me.

I have clearly mentioned before that if a BK commits lustful action, he is Shudra and also had mentioned that RIGHT NAME FOR GOOD BKs IS HALF CASTE. You know that. Hence I think, there is no need to comment on such things.
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