Dadi Kumarka

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primal.logic

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Is this true about Dadiji?

Post05 Jul 2006

I have been advised that Dadi Prakashmani is seriously ill in hospital, in intensive care in fact. And not expected to pull through. The thing that shocks me is the problem is Alzheimers. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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ex-l

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Re: Is this true about Dadiji?

Post05 Jul 2006

primal.logic wrote:The thing that shocks me is the problem is Alzheimers. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

If I remember correctly, there was talk of it on the old xBKChat forum with old BK and ex-BK's 'getting the call' to go back and see her. At that time, apparently she was drifting in and out of lucidity.

Excuse me being impersonal and analytical about it but what is shocking about it? Old age and death are going to come and get us all.

I mean this seriously, is it shocking because such an allegedly high ranking 'spiritual master' - probably " One of The 8 " as they say - would go down with an out of control mental disorder raising the entire issue of soul to body relationship or control? They say Janki is starting to slip as well - and no wonder at her age.

How many of the old originals became senile and, indeed, did Dada Lekhraj?

To be it seems hard to avoid and likely to be airbrushed out.
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sparkal

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Post05 Jul 2006

Baba has said to give her what she wants, play along kind of thing. She is repeating herself etc. and not quite with it. This from a Sister this week.
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primal.logic

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well, not really 'shocked' so much as.....

Post06 Jul 2006

well 'shock' has become surprise simply because alzheimers is a psychiatric disorder that is known to affect those who are mentally inactive - there is a very strong correlation between lack of use of the brain and Alzheimers and this is why I am surprised. Someone as alert as Dadi would not ordinarily 'qualify' for Alzheimers. Which makes me suspicious - was it brought about by some inner conflict or doubt? Certainly it strikes me as being in stark contrast to 'the fruits of Yoga' or being karmateet.

The idea of Dadi being unaware of even her name, role, the BK's or history let alone any aspect of self-realisation, wearing a nappy and dribbling into a bib, strikes at the very heart of Raja Yoga. For anyone who has seen alzheimers, the sufferer is completely non compous mentus by the time they pass away - it is death of the brain. What does that say about the 'power of Yoga'? In Dadi's case it has been 70 years. How would you explain her life time effort for self realisation when she has lost all cognitive abilities?

Alzheimers is not something you could wish on anyone, even if one supported the anti party, but I think alarm bells would be ringing for anyone who has anything but blind faith in the teachings of Raja Yoga.

And please don't accuse me of being melodramatic. Alzheimers is after all a very serious psychatric condition, and quite frankly it was the last thing I expected Dadi to die of. Actually, yes I am shocked.
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ex-l

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Re: well, not really 'shocked' so much as.....

Post06 Jul 2006

primal.logic wrote:For anyone who has seen alzheimers, the sufferer is completely non compous mentus by the time they pass away - it is death of the brain. What does that say about the 'power of Yoga'?

Alzheimers is not something you could wish on anyone, even if one supported the anti party, but I think alarm bells would be ringing for anyone who has anything but blind faith in the teachings of Raja Yoga.

And please don't accuse me of being melodramatic.

I apologise sincerely if you had a personal affection for the woman. I think that you have every right, and it is perfectly understandable, to feel emotion if someone you loved became ill in such a way. A friend's Father took many years to die from this disease. I did not see him but I saw what it did to my friend. At least this Dadi will have many of her devotees to bear the weight instead of one individual or family.

I don't think the desperate need to make every incident pregnant with meaning or mystically resolved through "karma" is healthy either, yet it is a tendency we all have and should guard against. Cancer, Alzheimers, depression, foetal malformations ... all part of a random curse on humanity due to little more than our genetic makeup. I don't think I believe in "karma" any more. Or at least not as it is simplistically implied in blind faith as a one size fits all mental plug. It is better to say, " we don't know why ", be honest, and admit up to our imperfect understanding and spiritual impotence.

Yes, I think that it ought to rock the BK boat but it wont. The doubts will just be plugged as " karma ... don't think more ". The last period of Lekhraj Kirpalani's life is unspoken about. How did he go? I have memories of stories of a saintly death, e.g. one day playing "goodminton" with the children, the next a body that smelt of flowers and did not decompose. I guess this was fiction too. May be this news has effected me, I don't think I believe in BK Raj Yoga some more and specifically question whether these women were actually using their brains.

What is more sure is that the story will be airbushed up and re-written. They will break Shrimat to get all weepy, make a big fuss, a big memorial and lots of waste thoughts and emotions will be spent on it. And a load of money spent on international airfares as her devotees flock to see her. At the end of the day, she sustained the institution as it was without questioning it deeply. She was ultimately responsible for Madhuban during the time - years - that child sex abuser worked there, and the cover up of that event. The institution may turn out to be misguided, dishonest and a myth or systematic hoax.

I am afraid that my sympathies are with the living victims of it.
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sparkal

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Post06 Jul 2006

Well, the latest I have heard, this morning, is that she has recovered from this current lapse, to some degree at least. Aparently she is always asking for DJ. Its a long way to visit. The bad karma in question may have been to be born into a body with weak constitution and as culture with bad diet.

I hear that they have changed their diet in London and are even doing hatha Yoga. A lesson for us all in throwing the baby out with the bath water. ( no, not you )
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primal.logic

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well....

Post07 Jul 2006

Actually I have no personal attachment to Dadi. Nor am I interested in this whitewash about settling karma. Fact is that Dadi's alzeimers is direct evidence, to me, that Raja Yoga is pure fiction. So I add it up and I find it quite a plate full.

Yes the BK's will be doing their Bhakti and will remain firmly planted in their house of denial, ignoring the facts and going down the endless path of wishful thinking. Many have invested so much of themselves and their lives in Raja Yoga they just cannot turn back. But I do believe that the writing is on the wall. It is only a matter of time before the fallacy is revealed and the wheels fall off. Not tomorrow. But eventually.

I keep in mind that a Guru in India has millions of followers. The BK's claim some hundreds of thousands but in relative terms that is not a big number. Most would leave very promptly when the truth of things become known, and just go and find themselves another Guru the next day. The rest will just fall apart.
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howiemac

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Re: well, not really 'shocked' so much as.....

Post07 Jul 2006

ex-l wrote:The last period of Dada Lekhraj's life is unspoken about. How did he go? I have memories of stories of a saintly death, e.g. one day playing "goodminton" with the children, the next a body that smelt of flowers and did not decompose. I guess this was fiction too.

I heard, in Madhuban, from more than one of the souls who were there at the time of Brahma Baba's death, that he spoke a Murli as normal, that morning, and said to them, just as he was leaving the room: "be viceless, egoless and incorporeal", and that he died a short while after on his bed (in Baba's room, Pandav Bhavan). They did also tell the story about his body not decomposing, despite the heat ... believe it if you like ...

I do remember hearing that final Murli and it being extraordinary - but unfortunately cannot remember now what it said ... maybe Raja Yoga is melting my brain too ... :wink:
primal.logic wrote:Fact is that Dadi's alzeimers is direct evidence, to me, that Raja Yoga is pure fiction

I can assure you, from considerable personal experience, that, whatever it may be, Raja Yoga is not a fiction. Some of the BK claims about Raja Yoga may indeed be a fiction, as may some of their teachings on how it should be practised, but Raja Yoga is not the property of the BKs, and it IS for real.
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Mr Green

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Post07 Jul 2006

it may be a reality for you but not necessarily 'real'
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uddhava

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Re: well....

Post07 Jul 2006

primal.logic wrote:Yes the BK's will be doing their Bhakti and will remain firmly planted in their house of denial, ignoring the facts and going down the endless path of wishful thinking. Many have invested so much of themselves and their lives in Raja Yoga they just cannot turn back. But I do believe that the writing is on the wall. It is only a matter of time before the fallacy is revealed and the wheels fall off. Not tomorrow. But eventually.

Dear primal logic,

Maybe this is another thread but what do you mean by the 'fallacy' / writing is on the wall / wheels falling off? It's hard to say without access to stats but I would say that BKWSU is quite healthy at the moment and I cannot see that changing in the forseeable future. One possible crisis point was the departure of Brahma Baba - however the channelling duties were taken over by DG. Another crisis point was 1976. Then there may be some concern about what would happen if DG were to depart but in fact wouldn't there just be a new Chariot, so why would the wheels fall off?
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sparkal

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Post08 Jul 2006

In this game, the ball is not burst and the game up the pole just because the guru dies.

The game is controlled from beyond and not by any worldly beings. Raja Yoga is what you make it for yourself, no one HAS to do anything, or, NOT do anything either. Perhaps there is a case for transcending this BKs and Raja Yoga for the consumer and make it real, tailored to our own preference. Or ignore it of course.

Once we trigger, germinate the seed, we are never the same again, we need to accept that, and move on / forward as we see fit.

Shiva or whatever you want to call that One is not a Tory voting grey suit wearing stiff. We are dealing with a REAL cool dude. We don' t have to have anything to do with the BKs to have a relationship there, unless you want to go backwards, depending on the centre and individuals. It is important not to let them get to us. Why deny ourselves that which MIGHT help us because of THEIR bad behaviour. And there seems to be no shortage of that. From the self also.

Perhaps We need to break down the models and keep re building them. The BK mechano set offers the beginners set.

Just a few thoughts to noise you up.

Peace.
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ex-l

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Post08 Jul 2006

sparkal wrote:Once we trigger, germinate the seed, we are never the same again, we need to accept that, and move on / forward as we see fit.

Perhaps We need to break down the models and keep re building them. The BK mechano set offers the beginners set.

I agree with the first statement. But, of course, I think every ex-BK on this forum would agree there is a whole load of other cross fertilisation that goes on in the BK hothouse as you would expect from any human organisation. Some being psychic 'exporters' and others psychic 'importers'.

The heaviest individual damage, or dissonance, happening when the individual questions or does not go along the rhythm and beat set by these old ladies and their followers.

I am sure that Raja Yoga is not fiction alone. Yes, increasingly heavily laced with fiction. But I have no idea what it really is and what frightens me is that I don't really think these old ladies ever did either! Historically, we know that they did not and did not really care. They were just in love with BB and are programmed to run.

What is going to be interesting is how the BKWSU will change when the old ladies leave the stage and the institution is left to the much more worldly 'middle managers'.

Yes to stripping away the fiction and documenting what is there. Personallly, I was just thinking last night that you don't really know what Raja Yoga is until you try leaving it and I would recommend the Seniors or 'middle management' trying just to experience what happens when you do.

The messy, painful, expensive breakdown after seems to be fairly universal ... but this is heading off topic and on to another one now.
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jamesy

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Post08 Jul 2006

I’m saddened to hear that such a lovely lady as Dadi Kumarka appears to have been stricken by Dementia. My own memories of her are wholly positive, in fact the experience of receiving drishti and the love and light I felt almost consumed by, when first introduced to her, is one of my most cherished memories.

I guess the BK organisation is now entering a period when the last of the original leadership move on. But I can’t see any crisis on a major scale. I saw enough folk in ‘middle management’ making genuine enough spiritual progress to ensure that the inevitable change at the top will be able to present an authentic enough leadership to sustain the movement. In fact we may well find that the change in the hierarchy brings some welcome debate on some of the less palatable aspects of BK lore.

For me, and though I feel little or no inclination to return to any sort of group religion, I’m still glad that I was able to take the chance to visit Madhuban when I did and meet with Dadi when she was at the height of her spiritual powers.
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sparkal

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Post08 Jul 2006

I must confess the deadly sin of having attended morning class last week for 2 days.
It did not go that well. The number-wise thing, cold-detached thing when approaching the subject of the poor. Compassionless.

The Murli covers this subject of souls changing. Perhaps they have been employed because they are limited in certain ways, it may suit the agenda. I cannot change THEM, and will no longer try. Even if they are coming out with infantile blah. On a personal level, I cannot seem to escape totally. I know, it sounds silly, but I feel that there is unfinished biz, certainly on a universal spiritual level, if not to do with the BKs.

I am the only male in the interfaith choir and am having to deal with similar stuff there also; self-promotion, then backed up with self preservation. Not to mention promoting MY religions song etc. That is not to say the problem is a female one, but in both the centre and the choir, there is the assumption that these are female bodies, pardon the pun. The choir is now attempting to change its attitude to me and I live in hope that the women's organisation called BKWSU will do the same. It is not as if there are any more souls in class to bolster their stagnant ways. Or is it I who has the problem? They are good at making it look that way.

It is not them who need to change, it is I. I and the Murli are resigned to the likelihood that some souls will not change, so let me change on the basis that they do not have this capacity, sad as it sounds. I may cover this in another post and use the Murli, or tradition at least, to back me up, just as they do.

SHINE :)
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primal.logic

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a meaty conversation!

Post10 Jul 2006

I've been absent for a few days and so it has been interesting to come back and see how this conversation is going. I still feel that the BK's as an institution will eventually come unstuck when the fiction it has conveyed as truth finally catches up with it. By that I mean things like changing the Murli. When I first came into Gyan destruction, according to the Murli, was to be in 50 - 60 years (as of 1936). However, every 10 years the Murli gets changed. It has changed again this year, and we are now up to 70 - 80 years. Is this Gods Murli, or what? That is one simple example.

Actually, Didi Manmohini (Big Didi as she was known) was charged by Brahma Baba to modify the Murli before it was distributed. As her right to do so was 'according to Shrimat' nobody has ever questioned it. Big Didi then handed that function over to Rajubhai, an obscure Brother who sat in a little office under the Global Meditation Centre in Pandhav Bhawan fiddling with the Murli. The Murli cycle is 5 years, and every 5 years they get a little more 'palatable' as they are watered down.

Apart from that, if anyone were to make a serious effort to establish the facts they would easily discover that there is no possibility that The Cycle is 5000 years - history of language (spoken and written) would enlighten blind freddy on that one. I believed in The Cycle for many years, I taught it in class, but then I needed to believe it - and it is a wonder of the human psyche that we can believe whatever we want to (or need to) - like the Martyrs (suicide bombers) who passionately believe that their death will take them to heaven and into the laps of 73 virgins (nobody told him they were all ugly :-)

The 'truths' that I so enjoyed in Raja Yoga are actually quite universal to eastern philosophy. For me Raja Yoga was all about the dharna. Loved it, lived for it. But then whatever I gained was undermined by the ultimately disempowering, narrowing beliefs such as The Cycle and being 'special' - which was just an egoistic need.

I have no doubt that God and the BK's are in no way related.

Someone mentioned that the Dadis did not necessarily know the truth either, they were just in love with B.B. I do not doubt that. I have seen young Kumaris come into Gyan (around 15 years old - there was a group who were my students, so I know them well). At that age, and with their indain tradition, they willingly absorbed themselves in the belief and very quickly Raja Yoga became the basis of their thinking. They are all in their 30's now, and have absolutely no other way of looking at the world. Raja Yoga is the totality of their perspective.

And I imagine it was the same with the Dadis. They were children, in India in the 1930's overwhelmed by the charisma of this Godly gentleman. Their whole perspective was based, intwined and owned by Raja Yoga.

I remember being in a class in Madhuban with Dadi (cannot remember her name) who was Brahma Babas lokik daughter. Someone asked her what B.B.s lokik wife thought when she found out B.B. was god (in the early days everyone believed B.B. was God, including himself, which is why we don't get Murlis from prior to 1964) Dadi whatshername said that it did not make any difference because she already thought he was God. Der, we all giggled as we got it - according to Indian culture, the husband is already god. So, in that environment, at that time, how easy would it have been for a bunch of girls to buy into it and run with it for the rest of their lives?
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