How to remember ShivBaba

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Post12 Mar 2007

arjun wrote:Omshanti. What is the difference between the remembrance of ShivBaba as a point of light in the Soul World by the BKs and the remembrance of God as a point of light by souls of other religions? Why don't they come to heaven when their method of remembrance is almost same as the way BKs remember?

OM Shanti,

I really don't know if any religion is remembering THEIR GOD as a Point of Light. Even if they are then they don't know the other aspects of GOD. ie His Name, Occupation, Home, Duties etc. Then that remembrance becomes INCOMPLETE.

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Post12 Mar 2007

Mitra wrote:I really don't know if any religion is remembering THEIR GOD as a Point of Light. Even if they are then they don't know the other aspects of GOD. ie His Name, Occupation, Home, Duties etc. Then that remembrance becomes INCOMPLETE.

Dear Brother,

Omshanti and thanks for the answer.

The other aspects of God as listed by you come into play only when He is in a corporeal form. His occupation is to make us pure. For that He has already said in the Murli dated 23.02.07 that "The bestower of true salvation, the purifier of the sinful ones comes Himself and explains all these secrets. It is not that he gives inspiration from there. He comes here." So when He Himself is telling that he does not give inspiration from there, then is there any use remembering Him there?

As regards His home he has already clarified in the same Murli that 'This is ShivBaba's living home.' referring to His corporeal Chariot. We have to remember the incorporeal Supreme Soul within the corporeal Chariot. So, is there any use remembering the non-living Soul World? The sanyasis of the Bhaktimarg also remember the non-living Soul World in the form of Brahm. ShivBaba Himself has said in many Murlis that it is no use remembering the Brahm.

Nevertheless, whatever one's faith, one gets the fruits for the same depending on the sincerity of the efforts.

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reforming BK

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Post12 Mar 2007

ShivBaba Himself has said in many Murlis that it is no use remembering the Brahm.


I can agree with your other points, but I haven't seen this in Murli, do you have any quotes or Murli dates?
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Post21 Mar 2007

It is my belief that according to your specific reality you have a "form" you accept for ShivBaba. For instance, I accepted ShivBaba as a point of light. And during my meditations I visualize this point of light and I start feeling all I can of it. How it felt? how it was? Then this "static image of a point of light" starts to give me "something more". But the starting point was believing ShivBaba could fit in this image ... I think He does the rest ... What if at this point you still do not feel the point of light is OK? Then I think you have to find how you actually accept ShivBaba to be ... Could it be Christ? Budda? How you accept it to be?

Can Christ or Buddha be ShivBaba? If we can all imagine the way as we please and this can be the individual truth for each and every one, than how will be one religion established, how would there be harmony in vibration. We will be sitting side by side and remembering different things, but it is said that Brahmins can perform powerful transformation if they have one and the same thought in one second.

How can there be unity if one has his own idea? This will be just superficial unity. So first there should be unity in the ideas, that who is ShivBaba what is he etc. For this we have The Knowledge

Why should he have to come and narrate new knowledge if the old knowledge of Buddh and Christ was correct? He has to come and narrate new knowledge, because the old knowldge does not make new world and he is needed in practical for us, The Knowledge of him is not contained in the old knowledge.

So if we take the Murli – then it is never said to remember Dada Lekraj, but it is exactly said that we should not remember him. Remembering him as a point of light requires The Knowledge where does this point of light enters. It does not mean we should remember a dead body from the past.

Sakar Murli played by Shiva the Supreme Father by the mouth of Brahma Dada Lekhraj, published by BK with date of revision 1.12.2002: "We mustn’t remember anyone except Baba. When Nehru died, people remembered him so much. If you also rememberi in the same way, what is the difference between them and you." Alive, corporeal personality is very much needed so to know him and his acts, so that he can play his role.

The same way Christ or Buddha, played roles, he plays his role, but if we say that he did in the past, then what should be the result of his coming should be practically visible, which is unity, one family, one direction, one kingdom, peace, happiness, purity, prosperity...

I have also seen a mother sitting in front of Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit, the way she was sitting and listening though me much more about what is rememberance and how to remember, what is purity in mind and body, then many, many words about it, because it is practical. Rememberance of point of light is impractical.

The drill done by Avyakt BapDada is to learn to put a full stop to the mind. BKs won’t accept just like that presenting them The Knowledge, because they don’t accept the corporeal. They think and hear that he is an impure human being. They need purity, they don’t like to have a connection with any corporeal being.

One may make effort to remember a point of light, but faces and pictures of the corporeal world come in the eye of the mind without effort, it is because whatever the eyes see, the ears hear, the organs feel is remembered. For the BKs ShivBaba is in a form of a husband. They will maybe run when they need protection, when they understand their purity is in danger, that there is only one support, or if they are thrown out, or when dectruction comes.

The idea is that there is safety in the BK familly, people are pure, purity means to have connection with one ShivBaba only, not to isolate oneself from the world – remembering something from another world. First safety in needed in the mind and intellect. ShivBaba has come to establish the pure household path. BKs have to teach the real purity what is it for a man and wife to live together and live a lotus like pure life. How is it possible that a fire and cotton wool can be together and cannot catch fire. Always the best way to learn is to see an example. So we need corporeal example of a perfect couple.

Sakar Murli played by Shiva the Supreme Father by the mouth of Brahma Dada Lekhraj, published by BK with date of revision 4.12.02; "You say: Shiv Baba, I belong to You. Your intellect's Yoga goes up above, because Baba Himself says: Remember Me, and your sins will be absolved. Stay on this pilgrimage. For instance, even if this Baba goes somewhere, you still have to remember Shiv Baba. Shiv Baba went to Delhi and Kanpur in this Chariot. In your intellect, let there be the remembrance of Shiv Baba. You mustn’t stay down below. Your intellect should remain up above. The soul remembers the Father, the Supreme Soul. The Father says: My residence is up above. You mustn't wander around after Me here. Remember Me up there. You souls also reside there with the Father. It is not that the Father’s residence is separate from yours; no. Make these things sit in your intellect."

See ... it is very confusing, so we need clarification, we need a teacher who can explain this. It is very easy to remember your teacher.
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Post10 Apr 2007

Mitra wrote:You have to remember lord Shiva in the Soul World as a point of light with thought less stage

"Brahma aur Brahmakumar-kumriyon ka aapas may kitnaa love hai kyonki yah ho gaye Ishwariya santaan. Ishwar toh hai niraakaar. Unkay saath love toh saakaar may chaahiye na. Niraakaar ko kaisey love karengey. Aatma shareeer say alag ho jaati hai toh love nahee hota. Aatma aur Parmaatma jab saakaar may milein tab love ho. Niraakaar roop may bhal gaatey rahtey hain – tum maat-pitaa…Tum aao toh tumhaari kripa say hamko sukhh ghanerey milein." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 20.01.07, pg 1)

“Brahma and Brahmakumar-kumaris love each other so much because they are God’s children. God is incorporeal. Love for God is required in corporeal form, isn’t it? How will one love the incorporeal? When the soul separates from the body, then there is no love. Only when the soul and the Supreme Soul meet in corporeal form, would there be love. Although they keep singing about the incorporeal form that – You are our mother and Father ... If you come, we would get a lot of pleasure by your grace.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.01.07, pg.1 published by BKs, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba and translated by a PBK)

- Baba is telling that only when the soul and the Supreme Soul meet in corporeal form, would there be love between them. But after the demise of Brahma Baba in 1969 BKs remember or love God Shiv in an incorporeal point form. So, in view of the Shrimat contained in the above Murli, is it OK to love God in an incorporeal form?
- Baba is telling that love for God is required in corporeal form. So then, where is God in corporeal form?



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Re: How to remember ShivBaba

Post13 Apr 2007

Anamik wrote:So finally, it is not possible till now to remember ShivBaba in His fianl Mukarrar Rath(Destined Body) because it is still not revealed and declared. It is just enough to remember Him as Supreme and Benevolent of All, with Love in our Heart for Him. Our Love reaches Him.

I am quoting myself here. What I want to make clear is that although we have to remember ShivBaba in His Mukarrar Rath (Permanent Chariot), till this date The Mukarrar Rath is not clear. Though PBKs believe Veerendra Dev Dixit to be The Mukarrar Rath, Veerendra Dev has nowhere directly told or accepted himself as Mukarrar Rath of ShivBaba.

My gut feeling is that within one year The actual Mukarrar Rath will be revealed to us. So till then we can practice being soul-conscious. Because whatever way we remember, the first step is to remember ourself as soul, i.e. we have to be soul-conscious first.

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Post23 Apr 2007

Ah, Remembrance. The great drunken stupor, :o Oh! I mean intoxication of BK life. How do you remember Baba? Be creative.

There are usually at least a few points in the Murli everyday. When I was a BK, to keep constant remembrance, when I would walk around town I would have my walkman, listening to tunes that helped my Yoga.

For me it was usually Trance Music (only the hardcore stuff). The others didn’t understand me, but when I listened to Trance I could easily fix my mind on powerful Shiv Baba, blasting rays of sanskar destroying love and light into the hardcore depths of my soul.

I also loved to listen to contemporary boy bands. LOL! I am so serious. Like West Life. You listen to their tunes and they are singing such great Bhakti music in a Double Foreigner language absolutely perfect for Remembrance with the greatest love for Baba. I used to get soooo high off these feelings of love and sing along with the boy bands! He he ...
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Re: How to remember ShivBaba

Post07 Apr 2008

From an email sent to me by a BK friend:

Am I in Constant Remembrance of Supreme Soul?

What is remembrance or Combined Form and its immediate ( now - the same moment) benefits?

Remembrance is called the Yoga of Intellect. It is not ordinary remembrance of thinking by which there is no immediate (now – the same moment) effect on our intellect or way of thinking.

When there is no immediate (now) attainment, it leads to tiredness, boring, sleep, disinterest ...

The Yoga of Intellect is such that our small intellect gets replaced or gets expanded and we start seeing things as a whole ( It is like viewing the Earth or land while flying in the Aeroplane).

The immediate Benefits?

Although we might have lot of worries or fears or depressions, the moment our intellect becomes broader by the simple way of remembrance, all the fears, worries, doubts, depressions disappear in a moment.We get a clear, clean and far sighted, broad viewing Intellect.


It is very simple, that all our fears , worries or burdens are to be surrendered to God and we have to become free by living / being in the present always, thereby experiencing our original form, point of light at all times in a very natural way. When our mind is able to be in the present, it is very easy to experience our original form as point of light.

Although we experience our original form , there will be thoughts keep arising. To control (not to stop) thoughts and at the same time to become powerful or to have broader intellect, we have to just remember the Supreme Soul. Since the mind cannot think two things at a time, when we remember the Supreme Soul (without any other thoughts), we can feel that our Intellect becomes expanded or broadened or alert or active or have the awareness as a Total (like seeing the scenaries from the top of building)

It is like our soul gets merged/combined in the Supreme Soul and we have a better and Clear Intellect almost equal to the Supreme Soul Intellect.

We will feel that we are aware of every moments being in the present, at the same time we have a vast awareness of the happenings around us.With this state of mind, we can face all types of problems, situations in life with 200% courage and we can always maintain the stage of Giving & Taking Blessings and not Giving & Taking Sorrows.

So, the real remembrance is nothing but converting our smaller intellect to the Divine-Broader (Saalim) Intellect by complete surrender/deep Love towards the Supreme Soul.

When we have or when we are able to maintain a constant Divine Intellect throughout the day, it means we are in remembrance – nirandar Yaad.

Why we do not have a constant Powerful Stage?

“Chodo tho chuthe” The tendency to keep holding to our ideas not becoming free from our own wrong ideas make us to cling to the wrong practices, not leading us to realize the Bliss, constant SatChitAnand.

One is our fear to Surrender our burdens – feelings and worries to God, Even if we surrender, we keep having thoughts like , what I am doing is right or not, what will happen in future, whether I am practicing Yoga, whether I am in remembrance or not ... these thoughts never allow us to experience the Complete State of Surrender – the attainment of Divine, Clear and Broader Intellect – Bliss.

The common ideas of remembrance – like having chit chat, travelling to Soul World, meeting Supreme Soul, praising Supreme Soul, following commentaries, having feeling of rays falling on us, visualization..all these requires Energy from our end and we get tired in course of time if they are not accompanied by complete surrender, by which we draw Energy from our Beloved Father.

Right or Wrong?

Whatever type of remembrance we do, we can know whether is right or wrong, by the experience we have. If we feel energetic, it is the right method and if it is loss of energy, then we may have to change our practice.And another method is whatever we do, if it is the right method, it can be practiced throughout the day and it will make us more and more active and energetic than otherwise.

Everyone experiences most of the time, the real and right method of Yoga but we forget it in course of time, what is required is little fine tuning of our way of remembrance and little monitoring of what practice makes me feel more energetic and more alert and which methods make me tired and sleepy.


The remembrance is not just remembering/thinking Supreme Soul but it is attainment, experiencing Transformation, at the very same moment of remembrance, the attainment of Divine Intellect and performing all our daily actions with that Divine and Very Powerful Intellect – The Combined Form.

So, Remembrance in fact is Clean, Clear, Wide, Tension Free, Very Powerful, Positive, Broader, Doubtless, Worriless, Tiredless, Easy, Happy, Energetic, Refined, Pure, Spiritual, Divine, Saalim Intellect.

“Son Shows Father

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