Your God or mine?

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marja

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Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

YOUR GOD OR MINE?

Years ago I happened to meet the mother of a childhood classmate. We hit it off immediately, and sometimes we enjoyed coffee together. The lady was a Christian, and we had wonderful conversations. We understood each other, and the discussions we had steadily became deeper and more profound.

Until, one day, she looked very sternly at me while eating her cookie, and said: “Marja, you are from the devil!” I almost choked on my coffee, and stared at her, not believing what I had just heard. I thought she had made a joke. But, no ... gone was the good feeling. The lady almost snatched the coffee cup from my hands. “Yes, because you do not believe that Jesus is the only way.” And that was the end of our dialogues. The cookies were finished, too.

And then there were the great discussions I had with a woman who worshipped Krishna. We had such a lot in common, and we were floating blissfully together on billowing waves of spirituality, until she pointed a threatening finger at me and said: “You have to see Krishna as God, else there’s something very wrong with your spirituality!”

I became acquainted with all sorts of schools of thought and religious denominations: the one prohibited sex and onions, the other proscribed eating meat on Fridays. Yet another ordered the refrigerator-light to be covered with tape on Saturdays. According to reports, God told the one that he had to bow to the East during prayer. The other, however, was ordered to meditate, not pray. Some had to do this five times a day, and others had to do it three times daily. Some were not allowed to shake a woman’s hand, while others were ordered to do so.

Once two Buddhist lady friends looked at me pityingly, and said that regretfully, I hadn’t progressed very far on the spiritual path, because I had not released God.

So what must one do then? What is actually the truth?

Imagine this: you finally arrive home after this life, and stand before The Lord God. He looks angrily at you and snarls:

    “On March 2, 1988, you ate an onion!” Or: “You have not covered the refrigerator-light with tape on February 3, 2004!”
    “You had sex on Saturday, December 10! Shame on you!”
    “You bowed too much to the South on March 2, 2005, and you believed in me until the very end, while you actually had to let me go long before that!”
Within and outside of all these movements, I encounter people who are not so fussy about these rules and regulations, and who keep their hearts wide open.

Genuine warmth radiates from them. I see atheists who emanate the same warmth and love, helping fellow souls in the most terrible and inhospitable regions. I meet perfectly ordinary people who, while just relaxing on a bench in the park, pass on to others the most wonderful pearls of life’s wisdom, not ordinarily found in books. People who, having been baptized or circumcised or not at all, spread around love and light nevertheless.

Rules, regulations ands rituals are just ways and means to experience the connection with The Creator. If, however, they are allowed to become the principal part, they act as a solid block.

I know people who are terrified after they have broken a rule. And there is always someone who sets himself up as the stern and enraged judge, God’s representative on earth. If we are hurt “in the name of God” it is actually our own ego that has been hurt. We then use God as a kind of tool within our own inner strife, making Him a caricature of our own wounded ego. In reality, God cannot be insulted if we happen to violate a rule or if we make fun of Him.

Muslims are offended because of certain cartoons, and others are just as offended because the Muslims won’t put up with it. So we are all being offended together, and believe that we alone have the most right to claim victimhood.

God or Allah, The Source, or whatever you choose to call Him or Her, is Love. Fear blocks the experience of love. That love and that power are always there for us ... we may just allow it to flow through us, and we may utilize it, and pass it on to others. This process goes on eternally. Sometimes we forget, and don’t quite remember where the door is anymore. And if we find it again, we have just to knock. And how exactly to knock ... well, that is our very own choice.

Osho once told a wonderful story, which touches me deeply every time I hear or read it: a guru gives his disciple a mantra, and then sends him off to an unpopulated island. Twenty years afterwards, the guru boards a small boat, and rows to the island to find out how his disciple is coming along. He finds the monk sitting in front of a cave, repeating his mantra over and over again. “Oh, no,” exclaims the shocked guru. “You’re saying the mantra all wrong!” “My goodness,” replies the monk, “How was it again?” The guru then gives the correct mantra, and orders his disciple to start all over again from the beginning. In a state of dejection, the guru boards his boat and rows away from the island. After quite some time, he hears a sound behind him ... “Splash, splash!” The guru turns around, only to see the monk running to him over the waves, shouting: “Say, what was that mantra again?”

I once saw a picture, on which God is shown as a bright sun, radiating his love and light to every direction. Human beings are pulling at him with long ropes from all sides while shouting: “He belongs to us!” “No, he’s ours!”

But God doesn’t pay any attention whatever to the commotion, and calmly continues to project his rays to all around him.
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rayoflight

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

marja,

What a beautiful post! Thank you for taking the time to write it.
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ex-l

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

It's all very fair, but can I just pick up on those questions I asked you?

Do you think the god of the BKs, or more specifically, the spirits of BapDada that enters and speaks through Gulzar (and Lekhraj Kirpalani and others before her) ARE "The Creator"? If not, could you suggest what you think is going on?

The reason I ask is that one twist the Brahma Kumaris are very keen on is making everyone else God, their God ... and then claiming not just a monopoly on him but, of course, personal appearances at Mount Abu and regular trance communication by the leaders.

This is a very different "god" than every one else's and a far more exaggerated claim than anyone else's. I believe a lot of people, especially the interfaith people, are misled by the guile of the Brahma Kumaris over this and the obfuscation, such as the current President of India Pratibha Patil thinking she was meeting the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani when, in fact, all the Brahma Kumaris were sitting their smirking thinking that they were actually introducing her to the one and only "God" of all religions.
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marja

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

Hello ex-l.

I honestly don't know. The only certainty I have ... is my experience ... read The White Light. That is all I know and enough for me.

We all have to seek our own relation with God. We cannot tell each other. Just experience ...

Ex-245
(Marja, I stop hiding myself here ... I want to be open and have no fear ... what is there to be scared about?)
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ex-l

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

It's a big question.

You obviously know what the BKs say about God and all the luggage that comes along with it ... did you go to Abu and meet him? How was that?

Ultimately, I don't know either but I suspect the god of the BKs is something different from the "God-god" of other religions. I am always interested to know what is going on and if individuals such as yourself have by-passed the BK God and made their way back to "the Godhead" ... or whether they are still hooked up to the BK god but in an unbranded manner.

Personally, I think the Brahma Kumaris kind of subvert individual's relationship with "god" or "the light" and place their god in front of it say, this is it ... this is it. I suspect that people like you, people like us, fall for that for a while then realise we have been conned ... and then move on.

Sometimes the mental conditioning, the pull, psychic connection or magnetism, is still strong and I think many ex-BKs have a hard time dealing with and pulling away ... or facing any type of religious idea.
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marja

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

Why don't you stop the questions ... and spread your arms and see what happens ...

Who knows ...
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lokila

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

marja wrote:Why don't you stop the questions ... and spread your arms and see what happens ...

We did that for so many years. "Just put a dot to everything" is what Janki Kripalani used to tell us when we raised questions. "Don't raise question marks" was written in the Murli.

I am very happy with all the questions ex-I is raising at this forum. It makes me think, makes me wonder, inspires me to investigate, to read about BK history, read stuff about other religions.

Just spreading our arms is what most of us did when we became BKs. Wide and open and naive, not knowing what actually happened. That is the exact reason why I was influenced big time by what Seniors and teachers told me what was right and wrong (because they pretended to know what were the exact meanings of God's words).

I don't think spreading my arms means everything will be alright and only good things will happen to me. It can also mean bad things can happen. Only by asking questions, trying to find out I can make distinction, prevent myself from being swept away to highs or depts of uncontrollable emotions and feelings. For what I experienced within the BK, not allowing myself to think but just sitting there as a devotee, swallowing everything which is put in my mouth, did not lead to happiness. And it certainly did not bring me closer to God.

Well, but your experience is quite different. And that's a good thing. You can embrace the feeling of having a relationship with God with you full heart. I just try to find out what it was all about within the BK: an old woman, being a Chariot for the 'Supreme Soul' and the soul of one man who passed away, from who was said he is an angel? What happened actually there on top of the mountain in Mount Abu? Why did it make me spread my arms so wide that I was ready to believe anything?
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marja

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

This time you can have a relation with God or who ever ... on your own terms. No mediators. For now it is your idea to find out what really happened. Very good.

But don't let it make you bitter or regret. If there is a God or something else ... don't miss it because you are busy with the past. You live Now and Here and are still a beautiful soul. Nobody can take you away from that. Why do you spread your arms so wide??

Maybe because you recognised something ... and it came out not the exact "thing" you were looking for. The real God must be pure ... organisations claim God for their own purpose. You can do it your way ...

Did you read the Conversations with God ... Neale Donald Walsch?
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ex-l

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

marja wrote:Why don't you stop the questions ... and spread your arms and see what happens ... Who knows ...

Well, that's a line straight out of Dadi Janki mouth, "Don't think ... don't ask questions" etc!

Why ... because I don't want to be mugged again for being spiritually naive. And, without wishing to be impolite, if you don't know what you are selling, then why should anyone buy it.

Many people it seems take the BKs model and then set up an independent franchise with it, whether Virendra Dev Dixit, Heidi Fittkau or Brian Bacon's followers. I am just genuinely interested to know whether they are still selling the same spirit entity.

Did you study Brian's and Mike's work, or take much from the BKWSU, on your way to becoming an inspiration trainer and a coach?
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rayoflight

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

marja wrote:Why don't you stop the questions... and spread your arms and see what happens...

Like, why don't you spread your arms like an eagle and jump off a cliff and see what happens? Maybe you'll fly or maybe you'll fall to your death and that will be your own damn fault 'cause you don't know how to fly.

marja, you're starting to sound like a guru. like two people wrote the posts. Did someone translate and adapt for you? I really don't think anyone here is looking for more hippy dippy guru stuff. And I don't think condescension is appreciated either. Stay on the level marja.
lokila wrote:I am very happy with all the questions ex-I is raising at this forum.

This is what it's about. We are done with blind faith and listening to bullsh** masters laughing all the way to the bank. As far as I am concerned, ex-l's questions have filled this forum with valuable information and it is thanks to his work that this forum consistently raises questions of all kinds. This is definitely not the place to suggest gagging.
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ex-l

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

Neale Donald Walsch is another channel or medium, is not he? The book was written via "automatic writing".

This is where I start to get interested again. God ... again ... apparently said George Bush Senior would be remembered as a great man (it was written whilst he was in power), and that a single world government, or New World Order, would be a good thing.

Sorry to always appear to be salt in mix but what we need, especially coming out of the BKWSU, is our feet brought back down to ground.

Without a doubt an inspiring personal story, and good poetry, but if it is another spook pushing power mongers like the Bush family, what are we supposed to make of it. This is why I ask, "is it BapDada you are talking about?" half wondering to myself if there is one spook that goes around all these mediums whispering the same things in their ears ... or if there is a species of spooks all up to the same game?
God via Neale Donald Walsch wrote:Establish what some have called a one-world government, with a world court to settle disputes . . . and a world peacekeeping force ...

Your George Bush, whom history will judge to be a man of far greater wisdom, vision, compassion, and courage than contemporary society was willing or able to acknowledge, was such a leader.

Last year, the spirituality Web site Beliefnet.com shut down Walsch's blog because Walsch had failed to properly credit and attribute material from another author. He passed off another writer's Christmas anecdote as his own. The story first appeared in a spiritual magazine in 1999 written by author Candy Chand and based on her son's kindergarten Christmas pageant.

BTW, welcome to brahmakumaris.info.

Funnily enough, Eckhart Tolle has a similar story (hitting rock bottom, not ripping off other authors) ... I wonder if what happens is that people "call upon the spirits" and they are actually visited and possessed by one? The door is open to anyone to offer another explanation for such events.
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lokila

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

marja wrote:This time you can have a relation with God or who ever

I choose whoever.
But don't let it make you bitter or regret.

But being critical is a good thing, not?
If there is a God or something else ... don't miss it because you are busy with the past.

Past - Present - Future, it is a chain. My past has great influence in my present life and my present life creates my future life. The connection is always there. That is why I like to investigate what actually happened in the past. To prevent it from happening again in the future. So I can work on that today :-).
Why do you spread your arms so wide??

Well, this is a very personal question. It's alright to ask, but I don't think this is the place to bother others with my personal history. I prefer to paste a quote from Rayoflight (from another thread).
rayoflight wrote:More importantly though, I am starting to see my own weaknesses more clearly, the ones that may have been responsible for the dependence I developed which NONE of their courses could have ever healed simply because they were nurturing them!

marja wrote:Did you read the Conversations with God ... Neale Donald Walsch?

Couldn't get through it, did not believe it.
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lokila

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

ex-l wrote:half wondering to myself if there is one spook that goes around all these mediums whispering the same things in their ears ... or if there is a species of spooks all up to the same game?

I imagine this and LOL :D.
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duty bound

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

I am learning to tread lightly on this forum as in the world. And I shall endeavour to stay on topic. Where as in the past I would have been the first out of the trenches to spread the word of My god is the right god having had decades to reflect, experience, felt the pain and the triumph, I could not recommend my god to anyone.

That is not born of shame or pride but to know my god you would have to be me for a day and that is not going to happen. And I can not be you for a day to know your god ... thank god.

I can only handle one god.

People spreading their arms reminds me a little of a firing squad. Or a Crucifixion, or being held up and fleeced. Or flying free and open to the world. :| :| :|
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marja

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Re: Your God or mine?

Post01 Jul 2009

Oh oh ... don't want to sound like a guru and I don't want to condescension. Sorry if I did. I understand that what you have been going through is totally differend than my experience. The stories I have wrote a few years ago. Because I went to London to give a workshop, a friend of mine translated them.

Thank you for all your answers. I will think about what you all have written in reply. I know I am sometimes to enthusiastic for others. I hear it more often. Still I believe in what I experienced in the past and now. I am sorry that so many people feel hurt and I hope this forum can meen something for other ex-bks.

Arms open wide was for me a beautiful experience. It does not have to be the same for others. I realise that. Being critical is a very good thing.

I wish you all lots of good luck in your lives.
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