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Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 27 May 2013
by Pink Panther
Discussion is getting a bit general when the topic is about directly contradictory claims :
    1. They are a religion so they can avoid tax obligations and
    2. They are not a religion so they avoid scaring away potential converts.
They do both at the same time. That is the issue here.

The virtuousness of the BKs compared to other religions is debatable, it's a matter of what aspect you're looking at.

Ask yourself why religions were originally and then traditionally given tax exemption?

The answer is because they are meant to utilise any material gains for the common good e.g. help the poor, the sick, the infirm, the dying etc thereby alleviating that burden from government.

So in those terms how virtuous are the BKs compared to, say, the Salvation Army, a religious denomination that came into being specifically to do that work?

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 27 May 2013
by littleo
If they are a religion for to avoid tax, it is for avoiding taxes. If they are not a religion not to scare people, it is flexibility.

For example the daily routine, early waking, study, vegetaranism, celibacy do you find some religion that has more strict rules.
STRAIGHT LINE, was, still and will always remain the shortest distance between two points ...!!

It is said that for to prove the truth one has to use tact. Tact is to act according to the situation. Along with the aim, how you achieve it is also important. This is exactly the critic that how can one use manipulation and deceiving in achieveing a noble aim. I think that as long as the world is such that manipulation and deceiving have to be used, these have to be used. If they stop using these, the world will be finished.

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 28 May 2013
by Pink Panther
Let me purr my approval to Little leo - a fine feline of a fellow - who seems to agree with my broad premise that the BKWSU (and their offshoots) are no different to any other human group that ever existed in history.

In particular, they're no different to other ideologically driven people who can justify to themselves any act taken in the name of their ideology.

They are "special" and "chosen" it's true, but only in the same way every other "exclusive" group is, to their own members.

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013
by raistlin
Hello everybody,

Thank you very much for all your reflections in this matter.

Littleo, I don't know where you're from, but for the Westerners the meaning of "religion" is "a boundary". From the Wikipedia: Religio#Latin.
religiō (genitive religiōnis); f, third declension
    1. scrupulousness, conscientious exactness
    2. piety, religious scruple, religious awe, superstition, strict religious observance
    3. scruples, conscientiousness
    4. (of gods) sanctity
    5. an object of worship, holy thing, holy place

A boundary to the God, God's commandments, God's religious, not spiritual!, practices. You may call it "devotion".
So, religion is not the "spiritual lifestyle" as the BKs often used to claim. Spirituality has nothing common with the religion, in my opinion.

The BKs also say (I used to hear in my BK past, especially from Senior Sisters or Brothers) instead of the word "bondage", that surrendering to Shiv Baba is like a "sweet slavery"; so you're bound/enslaved some way and from that point you have to be obedient to your master(s) and your Lord. And this is common probably for all of the greatest religions of the world.

I focused mainly on the Roman Catholicism, while, especially in Poland, it is the major religion. Over 90% Polish people declare to be (Roman) Catholics. In the Catholicism, especially of the Roman Church, it is the boundary with God the Lord by the Credo (the oath of one's faith), the Bible, Ten Commandments (where one of the Commandments is about your total obedience and devotion to the One God in the Holy Trinity, and no other gods), but also by the doctrines of the Roman Church, Code of the Canonical Law (set and still edited by the former Popes from the medieval centuries until now), the Holy Sacraments ... But don't the BKs act similarly?

The BKs have: Shrimat (God's directions), Maryadas (Code of BK basic ethics and behavior) and The Gyan based on the channelized messages (the Gyan is a base of the BKs doctrine and the law as well). Oh, I have almost forgot about the importance of rakhi - the renewal of the boundary with God Shiva every year.

Every "true" Godly student has to make a silent promise to God Shiva, "Remember Only Me ... finish all physical relationships and have all the relationships only with Me ... perform death-in-life to that physical world and to anything else related to this ... consider yourself and others as a souls and make efforts to achieve the possible highest status in the Golden Age. And surrender to Baba 100% your wealth, health, energy".

And it is also said, as a joke that "once a BK, always a BK" because letting go of Baba's hand, leaving God Shiva and the Brahmin family, is the act of highest disloyalty, disobedience and disgrace and deserves to severe punishment, so "GAME OVER". You lose everything. You are free from now but, for us, for your ex-family, you are dead. Baba deleted you from his list.

But let me ask you just two questions:
    Did you ever know about all of those consequences of your leaving, before you decide to become a BK?
    Have you ever been warned by any of the BK who introduced you to the organization of that consequences before you join?
So when the BKs claim that "everyone can come and go anytime" (without any harmful consequences) from the organization is a lie in my opinion. It is a disgusting PR lie.

I wasn't given such opportunity "to come and go" if I want to. It wasn't my fully aware decision to join the BKs for 6 years. My mother invited me to one of the BK public programs, when they just came back from Madhuban. She joined the BKs two years earlier. I came there because I was thinking if I come she will at last leave me alone! At that time she was still my mother, not "the soul who plays a role of my mother, and I, of her child ..."

I was just after two mental breakdowns, one by one in ultimate stress before the final exams in my secondary school and it really did not matter to me what will happen with my life. I just wanted some peace, not celibacy, not "virag", not death-in-life, not some crazy "race of the rats" for the status of the rulers in the Golden Age ... and, yes, I found peace there but I did not realize, even in my dreams, that someday I'll have to pay such a big price. Just for a bit of peace...

Sorry for off-topic ...

We are not talking about a group of some people, keen on Indian spirituality, who want to meet regularly, to promote vegetarianism, to encourage each other to practice celibacy, to live ascetic life, to practice Yoga ... Where you can come and go whenever you want and when you decide to leave, where you may just leave without any consequences (perhaps except the feeling of wasting your time and/or money you spent, etc).

The BKWSU is a firmly institutionalized religion from the very start, and the BKs can deny even until the end of the world, and for the day after, that they have no relations neither with the Hinduism nor they are a religion.

The concept of the cyclic 5,000 years, the rituals they adopt and perform, the four yugas, reincarnation, the names of the deities, gods and goddesses, Brahma as the Prajapati (in Hindu mythology, The Grand-Father of the Universe), etc came from the core of the Hinduism.

BTW, the Hindu myths and tales are very interesting and quite amusing and, at last, I understood why for the Indians/Hindus is spirituality and devotion so important.

Yes, littleo. I agree with you, it is not honest to make a decision behind someone's back (i.e. when the parents baptize their newborn children, because of ... let's say ... family tradition or a big pressure from the relatives) - that is very controversial indeed. But still when you're an adult you may do the apostasy and choose your own spiritual path, even far from any religion, it is quite difficult, but not impossible as the Pope Benedict XVI has made some serious adjustments to the Canonical Law before he resigned.

In the BKWSU you leave the organization:
    - when you leave while you are still in the beginnings of your adventure with the "BK Raj Yoga" (at this moment it is painless, OK, I was interested in it for a while, but I am no longer, I'll go and search somewhere else or leave that), but who would even be thinking of leaving the BKs during the "Honeymoon Period"...?
    - when you are stubborn "child" and a troublemaker to the organization (you still preserved your own opinions and ability to criticize even the Seniors) and you're expelled, because you asked too much extremely worthless (from their point of view) questions and confuse others (perhaps even forcing them this way to re-awake their ability to think and make their own decisions),
    - when you exit because of the whole controversy you heard or seen somewhere and the aggression you meet daily among the BKs and enormous pressure of making so hard efforts that reflected at last on your, mainly, mental health and physical as well (it is the last warning from your intuition), and you know you lost everything you gather so far, so recovering is very long and painful to you,
    - when you die
But in any case, you won't receive any certificate from the organization proving, that for some time you were a BK, and from now you are not. Not even a post mortem.

Even the Catholic priests or monks/nuns who decided to end their "Godly service", and be no more celibate, are provided with the professional psychological support to bring them back to life.

The BKs do not provide that support, or I have never heard about any of such help for those who think to leave or to those who already left and, of course, their families.

Even when there is a conflicted family, some family members keep contact with those, who just don't want to have anything common with the rest of the family anymore, but with some individuals they do.

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013
by Pink Panther
Great post Raistlin

You weren't off-topic at any point that i could see. So sorry to hear of the mental anguish before and after the BKs for you.

The BKs are a religion when it suits them and not a religion when it suits them. If someone leaves a lifestyle choice rather than leaving a very binding religious mindset, as you so clearly described, they have no responsibility to them for a lifestyle choice surely?

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013
by dany

When we were in high school, we were taught the "speed reading" techniques to utilise our time in a more efficient way, and to also bypass certain boring and unuseful material ..!!

I definitely did not resort to this technique, while reading your post.

It would be interesting to know what reallly triggered your exit from BK cult ... Your exit journey must have been difficult, but it could also benefit others to learn from the experience ..!!

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013
by ex-l
raistlin wrote:We are not talking about a group of some people, keen on Indian spirituality, who want to meet regularly ... Where you can come and go ... without any consequences ... The BKWSU is a firmly institutionalized religion from the very start.

But in any case, you won't receive any certificate from the organization proving, that for some time you were a BK, and from now you are not.

Yes, good post and good point (above). You really cannot even use all that time and energy you invested in your CV because 99% of employers would kneejerk immediately that it was a weird cult. Obviously, we've seen a few of the corporate coach BKs try to do so by presenting it, usually dishonestly ... but is not even that corroding to one's integrity?

If you got to try and win a job or a contract by lying, telling a half truth or deceiving ... what does that make you?

I quote again the parents of a formerly high profile BK who said,
"The only thing the Brahma Kumaris taught our son was to lie."

In fairness, perhaps an individual learns to get up early every morning and to be very clean but those habits are quick to lose! Perhaps the submissiveness and good dharna (conduct) might be useful in service industries but my feeling is that most of one's BKness is only of value, and a little value, within the BK system.

Outside of the BK system, even though you might have at least learned public speaking, event organization and political or PR skills, it is a social stigma (a mark of disgrace) that says, "dumb or screwed up enough to be sucked in by a cult".

I can see how the BK corporate coaching avenue might appear like the only way to turn BK evangelism into a career but it does not seem to work for all.

What are the social profiles of Polish BKs? Is there a 'type'?

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013
by raistlin
dany wrote:raistlin

It would be interesting to know what really triggered your exit from BK cult ... Your exit journey must have been difficult, but it could also benefit others to learn from the experience ..!!

Dany, what really triggered me to exit, and then escape for the sake of my life out of this damn cult as fast as possible, were three things:

1. When I visited Madhuban (even though I did not complete fully 6 months in Gyan, they let me go, because the Seniors were so impressed in my, so called, progress) in 1995. On Shiv Jayanti, when "Baba came", I felt nothing but a huge, deep disappointment. I felt nothing special, nothing "unique". My spiritual Brothers and Sisters, from the whole world gathered in the hall seemed almost in a somehow religious extasy, with tears in their eyes, trembling ... For me, there was no God Shiva there. It was just Dadi Gulzar sitting on the scene and whispering in such a weird manner. I was sitting for many hours on the ground, with my legs crossed, my back started aching me as hell, I was starting to have some stupefying legs, goosebumps. Generally, I was finding myself in a real physical discomfort, and it really wasn't helping me to be fully focused.

Besides, the celebration of BapDada's coming ended for me in the Global Hospital. I had a fever, was exhausted, and tired that I had to go to the hospital for one night (it was just a few days after I recovered from the flu I caught, just in few days of our [Polish BK group] stay in India, or later when for a day or two I was living in Gyan Sarovar, where it was really cold in the night, before they moved us to Madhuban, and, I was still weak).

Dadi Gulzar started to go in trance about, let's say, 4 or 5 pm, or just like that, and, through many hours long meeting with God, till after midnight, there was no chance to drink some glass of juice or water (the lunch was rather spicy and and it was the last meal on that day).

I did not even notice ANY MEDICAL STATION in the hall in case if someone would faint or would need just first aid - there were over a thousand of people gathered in the Meditation Peace Hall (or more)!

Next day, it was Holi. The doctors in the hospital let me go back, as they did not find anything serious. When I was getting back to Madhuban I saw many Indian people, men and women, wishing anybody they met a "Happy Holi Day" and playing with the colouring powders and pouring some water, as in the similar Christian tradition of Easter in the West.
I saw them really joyful and cheerful. It struck me like a thunder. It was not a fake happiness that like any other feeling is (obsessively) controlled by the students themselves (I used to control my feelings and emotions too, and even now I still have the problems with expression what I feel or just name it), or their real meaning is re-created just to fit to the BK teachings.

What I saw when I was going back to Madhuban, was such a big contrast for me, between the so called "zeal and enthusiasm" and "be happy be rajyogi" demands and just an ordinary human feeling of some joy because of the traditional celebration. I was feeling like living in some "parallel reality", that you can only watch the other reality, but you cannot get there as the invisible wall between those two "worlds" doesn't allow you to do so.

I was trying to find out why I did not experience no God on Shiv Jayanti. I tried to talk to anybody about it, but everybody was just so deeply intoxicated that I was only suggested "to go to Baba and tell Him about it". Can you imagine, that every BK I met there was giving me the same piece of advice! On and on ... like parrots or some robots. "Go to Baba, go to Baba ...".

I left alone and filled with doubts and questions. I did not feel to meditate at all, to go to "Baba's Hut" or somewhere else. I was not in the mood of having any damn Yoga! I was just looking for someone who could explain to me at last, what the hell happened that I had no experience of the presence of God on the meeting with him, which was the only one aim of my visit in India!!! That's what I needed.

So I stopped to seek the answers to my doubts. I started to pretend that everything is OK. I mastered masking my true emotions ... but I wasn't a "pukka BK" anymore. That visit in Madhuban, I visited only once and never after, made me to memorize how to be critical and doubting. I probably started to get back my common sense. The questions rose day by day inside me, "Why?" And the veil from my eyes and mind started eventually to fall down. This was for me just like awakening.

2. After I got back from Madhuban, I started to continue my school - the center-in-charge encouraged me to study IT, as my ambition was to make the whole Polish BK environment very modern and high tech. And, at that moment, the only one BK center and the main address in Poland, in Warsaw, was equipped with computers and laser printers. Even though in Poland there were four or five BK centres in the biggest cities, not somewhere in the province, the only contact with them was through the telephone, so I felt that this is not fair - the BKs in Warsaw are "richer" and "smarter", than the rest of the Polish BK family.

During my BK life, I was a "media BK", responsible for copying BK audio materials, and taking care of all that sound stuff in the BK programs in the city I was living. Besides, I was a "pukka BK" - my life was fully based on Shrimat, Maryadas, I attended Murli classes every morning, I did very often service in the BK centre ... I had observed the BK lifestyle almost for year and a half.

When I started to interact with "people from the outside world", e.g. my classmates, my transformation continued. And when I started my school I began to "forget" about Murli classes; firstly, very, very rarely, and then more, and more often. When I wasn't coming to the BK centre, the centre-in-charge used to phone me and asked me what happened that I don't come to the centre, that I am absent in the morning classes (after I finished my secondary school and joined the organization, I used to prepare the proper music or songs, so I had to be in the BK centre first, to have the enough time to verify any thing in the smallest detail and calm myself, and sit in meditation, so my "disappearing" was noticed immediately and they had to manage all of this stuff themselves), and that there are so many cassettes to copy, it is MY duty, and so on, and so on ...

I apologized her for my "vacation from BK", felt very ashamed of that, and promised her to remember to go to Murli classes, and don't forget about my duties anymore, and I was go back to my BK family.

But it was stronger ... Some time later it happened to me again. ;) That time I was just a half BK and a half ex-BK actually, but because I had no friends among the BKs, I started to hide the thing I am a "questioning BK" and on the good way to be become "exiting BK".

I started to take some "lokik" habits. I even let myself to go out for a beer with my mates occasionally. Of course, nobody knew about it. But when I was coming home, to those four white walls with that big red poster of ... you-know-who, I was feeling like I committed a sin. I am not worthy.

I wasn't able to enjoy my life at all. Neither in BKWSU, nor in the world outside the cult.

The centre-in-charge still had an eye on me and phoned, and phoned but the worst thing was, that my own mother was another 24/7 sentinel to me. If the centre-in-charge failed in bringing me back, my mother with her sweet manner was giving me the message that in the BK centre "there is a Baba's work to do". I very often even did not have a chance to finish my meal, or to have a nap during the day. When there was a phone from the BK centre, my mother, who is 21 years in the BKWSU at the moment, was so arrogant that she even was able to interrupt my nap and was telling me that the center-in-charge is calling ME so I had to get up, get the phone ... and, of course, every phone from the centre-in-charge was of the HIGHEST PRIORITY. It lasted very long when I heard of "deprivation of time" first time ever, and I realized that it also happens in the BKWSU.

Therefore, after the whole disappointment and feeling of being deceived by the whole "God Shiva is speaking through Dadi Gulzar" bunch of lies and somehow fooled (at that moment I did not realize that the real name for such behaviour is: "manipulation"), I tried to exit from the BKs few times but I failed. I was trapped. I am a BK, my mother is a BK. My Father is helpless. My family don't care at all. My mother keeps an eye of them to serve them and keep them completely unaware of the facts. I am in a jail and there is no help.

In 1997, after I finished my school and making my IT Diploma, I got back home and there was nobody who was interested with whom I can share with my happiness. My Father had gone on holiday, my mother only left me a note as usual: "Om Shanti. I am in Warsaw. I'll be back in few days. Om Shanti". This was very sad celebration,

OK, it's time to get used to it ...

I tried to create the email accounts for the BKs but they were force, probably by the management, to delete it. I had no idea that there had to be a special permission to do anything. Even the center-in-charge did not say a word of objection when I was creating an email account for the BK centre. Not her personally but for the BK centre I was from. I really had good intentions. That was a "faux pas". The time wasn't right. Today, every Polish BK connected to Internet has got it's own email address, and every BK centre in Poland has got it's own email account as well.

3. In 1999, I was beaten by some hoods who called themselves football fans. Five of them, against one of me, a few minutes before midnight near the bus stop (I was waiting for the night-bus), and I had to get to the hospital with my jaw broken. In hospital, I realized that it was I who provoke them - the whole crap I heard in the BKWSU from the Seniors about that "when you practice meditation, you will be eventually so powerful light, that no one would ever dare to touch you".

I was freezing and suddenly one of the hooligans attacked me (the other four were trying him to just let me go). I did not even yell, "HELP!" (as BK teach that yelling is a sign of violence as well) or run as hell from them. I LET HIM hit me in the face and broke my jaw.

It happened near the taxi stop and there were few taxi drivers in their cabs, who just observed the whole "spectacle". No one reacted. No one did anything. No one helped me or even called the police ... but, that's not important. I completely lost or let the BKs make my instinct of self-preservation put to a deep sleep.


(For the rest of my life, I will remember that horrible anecdote the Polish BK Seniors used to tell about how Jagdish Bhai rescued his life when he was in New York, and he did not want to go back to the hotel or a centre where he lived from the place where he was giving a lecture - it was quite distant - choosing a safe but long way to go, and instead, he decided, very irresponsibly, to choose the dangerous but much shorter way through Bronx.

Jagdish was lucky enough as the bandits did not do him any harm - they told him to dance, as he was from India, and because he was dancing so awkwardly, they started to laugh, and when they were almost crying and laughing, watching how clumsy he was, he was eventually able to manage to escape from them.

Unfortunately, I heard about "how Jagdish was entertaining the bandits in Bronx" after I get back from the hospital).

When I was in the hospital, I started to think and prepared a plan of my ultimate escape at any cost from that whole sickness once and forever. (I promised myself even that when I get back from the hospital, and when I'll get rid of all of that horrible stuff from my jaw and teeth, I'll visit some fast-food and buy the biggest Big Mac or something like that, they have. Unfortunately, I did not found any Burger King in Poland as I planned, but I did it anyway :)). But my escape was just started to happen ... :).

What was luck for me was that I ended up in the hospital at exactly the same moment the whole Polish group was just on their way to Madhuban (it happened in the February 1999, less than two weeks before the end of the month), so literally there was no one who could destroy my plans, and let me not to escape. Even my mother was at the moment on her way to Madhuban. This time I successfully escaped ... physically but mentally I was still in BKWSU and even now I notice sometimes that I act or think or speak like a BK.

That's really horrible.

When they came back from India and my mother saw me, with my violet-and-yellow cheek and neck because of some internal haemorrhage and my jaws after dentist surgery with that whole dentist "equipment" like wires and rails, she absolutely did not care about it. She was completely unimpressed. Her reaction was just shocking for me - when I told her that I was beaten up and my jaw was broken, she just smiled and congratulated me on it with a handshake, and then she took her luggage to her room and started to unpack it.

During her absence, I went back to a normal diet thanks to my Father who was taking care of me at that time. When she realized that, she just offended with us both and then was not willing to have anything, anything at all with us (she was thinking of me as a traitor at that moment and my Father as a my supporter who helped me to betray Baba and the BK family). She used to pin to on her cloth a big, coloured badge with the word, "Silence" on it. It was the message for me and my Father, that my mother absolutely doesn't want to interact with us and we are not allowed to disturb her as she is practicing "Silence" at the moment. It really made us not only angry, but we were just ****** off!!! And she was fully aware of what she was doing. She wanted to punish us. It had to be painful, and it was.

But even after a year of my escape I wasn't able to fully forget about BK teachings and BK lifestyle. It was until 2000, when I was sitting in the last meditation ever and during the meditation I started to go in trance. I lost control completely. I saw the blinding golden light and me inside that light ... trapped. Actually, it was a wall made of light, that started to close around me ... first slowly and then more and more faster. I jumped out of that at the last moment. I felt a piercing pain inside my head and fainted. I was completely alone in my flat at that moment. My mother was in the centre, and my Father had gone somewhere.

When I got back to my senses, I noticed the lines of blood from my nose and I had a terrible headache. I had never gone in trance when I was meditating. It happened just once. I was completely unaware of how I was starting to go in trance!

The same year the doctors discovered that I suffer from depressive and fear disorders and while on the psychotherapy. I got suicidal and was trying to commit a suicide. It was my first contact with the mental hospital so far. I told about my trance weird experience only to my psychiatrist and then he told me, that I was in a grave danger. From 2000, I have never ever come to the BK centre and attend any classes or lectures but even after 4 years from my escape I was not able to refuse the BKs when they asked me for some tech support, like when they had some problems with their computers in Warsaw in the summer of 2004. I bought a ticket, jumped to the train and went there to the BKWSU's main Polish seat. I did not even demand from them to be paid for my services. I wasn't that brave. I just couldn't!

I think, the BK management was and still is fully aware of that some people's self-respect is very low and they just let others for being exploited.

One day, somewhere in 1999, or later, I also saw the first restrictions about controlling the BKs' access to the Murli. I saw one day, while in the BK centre, we had at last a computer, that the Murlis that came to the BK centre's email address are secured with the PGP/GPG.

In 2002, I found the AIVV website in Polish and found out that there is an "Advanced Knowledge" I had no idea. I also had no idea of the AIVV existence so far! I was completely unaware of the big war between those to organizations in the BK movement, as we had never ever discussed that matter when I was a BK.

In 2005, after my Father's death, I dropped accidentally at the "" website and read about BK Ranjana's death. I was shocked. I couldn't believe what I was reading about!

In 2006 or 2007, I found the BKinfo and read more and more about the "dark side of the BKWSU", which I had just shyly suspected in the past but had no proof for that. I did not realize that it could be THAT bad. I felt sick and ****** off! It was also the time when I admitted to myself, very loudly, that I am a victim of a cult ... a mind controlling group.

Two years later, I registered in

So, all these signs, that happened after my escape from the cult are, for me, enough proof that my escape from that madness of the cult of individuality, from the spiritualism, hypnosis, teaching people about extremely, unimaginable selfishness, and mind control, which they call Raja Yoga, was the best decision for me.

If I could haven't done this at that moment I had probably the one and only chance, you would probably reported about the suicides in Poland too, because I could succeed in committing a suicide eventually.

But would it have changed anything in the organization? I don't think so. They don't care about the people who suffer, of the members of their own family, like they call that society. To hell with a family like that!

End of the story.

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013
by raistlin
ex-l wrote:What are the social profiles of Polish BKs? Is there a 'type'?

ex-l, I eventually succeeded in buying the book written by PhD Kościańska (Potęga ciszy/The Power of silence), where she was doing her research on the Polish BKs (2002-2006). She even interviewed some Polish BKs, so when I finish reading it, I'll try to write something more about the profiles of the typical Polish BKs and of the feminization of Polish Brothers (we, the juniors, were also quite often disallowed to have beards), the conflicts in the Polish "lokik" families and "separations" between the husband and wife or partners, because of the celibacy and weird BK vegetarianism, which was and still is unfortunately a norm.
I don't know any single Polish BK, who did not start the war with his/her "lokik" family and/or relatives, because of the new BK habits and changes suddenly and very consequently implemented into the family's life - both violent (threats or blackmailing) and deceitful way.

Besides, I also have no proof, that any individual, who was risen in a happy and tolerant family, far from any kind of dysfunction, when her/his needs were fulfilled, where there was love, respect and tolerance in the family and the feeling of boundary, were there were set the frontiers that everybody respected, and he/she was taught to love others, tolerate others and have respect to others, who has its own self-respect, is emotionally sensible, open, genuine person is willing to renounce completely to the beloved ones, the world she/he lives, her/his mates, friends, feelings, emotions, cultural, social life, hobbies... etc.

I remember one sentence from the discussion on, probably under the article on Ranjana's tragedy:
"Happy people just don't join Brahma Kumaris."

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013
by raistlin
Pink Panther wrote:Great post Raistlin

You weren't off-topic at any point that i could see. So sorry to hear of the mental anguish before and after the BKs for you.

The BKs are a religion when it suits them and not a religion when it suits them. If someone leaves a lifestyle choice rather than leaving a very binding religious mindset, as you so clearly described, they have no responsibility to them for a lifestyle choice surely?

Thanks Pink Panther

As for the struggle with my pre and post BK life, I started to get used to it. I cannot just turn back the time. Sometimes, I just try not to think and it helps. Not always, but sometimes.

Yes. The BKs are completely irresponsible for others, probably because they have the explanation in "Baba's responsibility for everything" and in the Kalpa repeating every 5000 years in the smallest detail.
So, if the whole movie called "Life" in which we only take part as the actors, who just play their roles according to the written screenplay is displaying, and Shiv Baba is the director, if anything what is/was and will happen is so planned in the smallest details according to that screenplay, with only the attributes "Read" and "Execute" set, and we are unable to change anything as the attributes "Edit" and "Save" are switched off, so we have completely no influence for the future, as the future happened exactly 5000 years ago, but we just don't know what happened because we live in the present.
So, making a try of a smallest change is completely waste of time, as the whole life of the whole universe, according to the BK teachings, is just a 5000 years long loop of time.

Even my mother, when I tried to provoke a discussion between us about all the bad things that happened in the organization and because of the organization that is responsible for those tragedies (I was hoping her to be shocked when I tell her about the suicides, deceptions, murders, etc.), used to wonder: "And why they just don't write some letters to Baba and sent them to Madhuban?"

As you can see, it is all in Baba's hands. If Baba doesn't feel that the organization itself is spoiled to the very core, there's no need to change anything. And this is very sad, that only sometimes, some BK Brothers and/or Sisters are able to change something in their local environment, but I suppose it lasts only that long until the next Jayanti inspection - then everything goes back to "normal" (abnormal).

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013
by dany

Yes ... The end of BK cult story, which will signal the start of a brand new and genuine life ...!!

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013
by littleo
It lasted very long when I heard of "deprivation of time" first time ever, and I realized that it also happens in the BKWSU.

What is "deprivation of time"?

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013
by raistlin
littleo wrote:What is "deprivation of time"?

I am sorry. Of course I was thinking of a "sleep deprivation"
Definition, here:

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013
by raistlin
dany wrote:raistlin,

Yes ... The end of BK cult story, which will signal the start of a brand new and genuine life ...!!

Thanks dany, but there's still much work to do for me, when I could be able eventually to call this really a "life". I try to live, but still I feel that it is somehow a substitute of life. I succeeded in "surviving", it is very much. I was very often suicidal in my post BK life, but it was and happens sometimes still only in my thoughts. I tried only once, and never more.

The mentioned "sleep deprivation" caused real chaos in my "inner clock", in my day-and-night schedule. I still have some problems to let myself sleep as long as I need, (I sometimes get up nervously before 4 a.m., because it happens to me to think mistakenly that I cannot miss my Amrit Vela, even though that it is exactly 13 years, when I am out of the cult).
There are also still other "triggers" executing the memories and visions from the BK past, some words, some specific sounds, smells, etc., that remind me of my past life. I am fighting with that, but it's not that simple.
I think, it is much easier to forget about what you had learned, than disconnect your feelings/emotions or senses from the specific situations. E.g. I hate the smell of incense sticks, I cannot stand any traditional Indian music, I don't like Bollywood films.
I started to interest in ancient Indian culture and literature, which is very impressing, amazing, and unique to me. And now, I am able to read all those mythical stories eventually, very often mentioned in Murlis, usually in the negative context or re-invented/re-interpreted by the BKs themselves.
Even the priest in the Catholic church, while his preach, very often is saying the exact source of the fragment taken from the Bible, that is the source of the inspiration for his preach, just in case you would want to read the quotation from the Bible or the whole story, mentioned in the preach you were hearing in the church.

But in the Medieval, only the "Princes of the Church" had the rights to have the Bible on their own, to speak the words of God and to interpret the Bible, the highest status in a hierarchy of the Church, the more privileges.
The ordinary people, the townsmen, peasants, etc. were only able to hear the preach, neither they have the right to possess the Bible, nor to interpret it. And the interpretation of the Church was official and in any case unquestionable. Even the kings or emperors had to count with the Popes if they wanted to keep their throne. You are questioning the word of God, so you are a heretic, or perhaps even a devil worshipper!

Doesn't it remind you of something familiar in the BKWSU? The organization's will is to maintain the "time of Medieval Centuries" as long as possible, they are afraid of any smallest reform inside - the Murlis and BK Seniors words are unquestionable and the BKs are force to keep their mouths shut and not criticize. The access to the Murlis is so secured and controlled as if they were not some understandable only by the BKs printed sheets of paper, but some Top Secret documents of the last national importance. And only the BKs has the right to read and the hear the Murlis (through the secured internet connection), just like in the Roman Catholic Church of the Medieval Centuries (only the chosen ones have the right to read the word of the Lord).
This is just ridiculous. If you have e.g. some important document for you, but written in language you don't know at all (let's say, e.g. Hungarian or even worse Hebrew or Arabian) and you'll find a translator who is willing to translate it to your native language, will he/she tell you to leave this document to him as you are uneducated in Hungarian/Arabian/Hebrew, that's why you surely won't understand what it's written here, or he/she'll agree to translate it and tell you to come later to get the translation and your original document? Of course, he or she will translate it and give it back to you - the translation and the original. Probably you will have to pay the money to the translator, it is his/her job.

Refusing the public access to the BK Murlis at any cost is the best proof for the elitist attitude of the BK top management - we don't give you free access to The Knowledge of God because you are not spiritually enlightened, and therefore we are afraid that you may understand it improperly, or worse, you start to ask us more and more questions, that we are not willing to answer at all. Come to us, meet the God in person, and experience The Knowledge from the very Source.

Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013
by littleo
Dear raistlin,

You speak about social stigma and I believe everyone has suffered that, but it is not always the person's fault and he is not always able to do something. If you are seen as strange because you are black, e.g. you cannot do anything but tolerate. I have gone to various cults and I find people there very interesting. It is often that society portrays a negative image, church speaks all sorts of things about the sects. The social stigma is a damage in itself but it can be due to intolerance, rigidness and problems in society itself.

In the family, also if one starts following a certain path, he questions the path of others. Why are you not following also? What do you follow? Why? Where it will lead you to? So the reaction to the cult member is also a self-defence, defending your own habits your own way of thinking that may also need change.