Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

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ex-l

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Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post26 May 2013

raistlin wrote:We never discussed even about that strange case of a BK center in Hamburg in 1998, when Sudesh had to go to Germany urgently (we were informed of it in Poland), and personally "sweep some dirt under the carpet". Do you know some details?

No, I don't know.

Could it have been when Stefan Nagel, who was called "Surya", and Suman closed down a centre as a matter of principle in protest against the alleged bullying of Jayanti Kripalani over a difference in approach of studying the Murli?

I know some of the details of this case and how the BKs spun a web of deceit around it but weren't they in Cologne?
It is not a foolish accusation or a try to take a revenge ... I have no reason to do it ... do you think that curiosity, criticism and common sense can really be serious obstacles in spiritual development ...

WTF is their REAL system of values they preach about in almost every their event or program?! This is called hypocrisy!

That is why we are here and doing our best to straighten them back up ... which is ridiculous considering we are meant to be the "lowest of the low", the "failures" and wasted so much of our life already on them!!!

The leaders put the poison word out and the BK idiot factor repeats it like parrots ... putting us down as "defaming Baba" or "defaming the BKWSU" but it's not about that and not about "revenge" or "embitterment".

Like it or not, the BK and BKWSU are part of life and part of our societies. They are still bound by the values of society. Their corruptions and hypocrisies hurt people and therefore hurt society, so we have to either put them straight or protect society as best as we can afford to.

You're correct ... they are the opposite to true spirituality. Suppression, distortion, manipulation are all entirely contradictory to the simple truth.

Hopefully by the likes of us speaking out ... TIME AND TIME AGAIN ... the BKs will finally get the message that it is a waste of time hiding and covering up and ... EVENTUALLY ... just come out and tell the truth. Stop pretending. Stop all the facades. Stop the lies.

We also have to give individual BKs a good example and encourage them to stand up, speak out, question, challenge corrupt leadership.
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leonard

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Re: Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post06 Jun 2013

Yes, Sumanbahen ran centre in Frankfurt, not Hamburg. She still lives in same building. Sudesh Didi runs main Germany centre which is in Frankfurt.
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ex-l

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Re: Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post06 Jun 2013

Is she back with the BKs and does she run any centre now?

I was told the problem with Suman and Surya came down to nothing more than a disagreement over how to teach the Murlis. That her centre was experimenting by studying each season's Avyakt Vanis in depth during the same year and not, I think, studying the Sakar Murlis (which makes much more sense for Westerners, there's hardly anything of any interest or value in BK Sakar Murlis).

Apparently it came down to a conflict between her and Jayanti Kripalani in Britain about how the center should be run. A center the Germans were paying for. Jayanti wanted things to be done her way. I understand they closed that center in protest ... but remained faithful to the religion in private. The London BKs spread other false rumours about them.

I always thought, as a BK, Suman was "very pukka" and straight down the line. That she was a "good one", as in walked the talk, was intelligent and very "Om Shanti". In spiritual terms, I would have said she was the biggest challenge or outshone Jayanti who was too tarnished by all the politicking, her family interests and the Kirpalani Klan stuff. Surya was the first Westerner to become a BK. He met the BKs in 1970 in India.

Of course, this information was received mostly secondhand, although I did confirm details with one of them. As usual, it's very difficult to get to the truth about such situations, so use this as a starting point for further questions.

Just what happened in Hamburg BK center in 1998 is something else then. Does anyone know?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post06 Jun 2013

My reading of it.

I agree with ex-l about Suman's character. There was always "professional" rivalry between Suman and Jayanti - possibly nurtured by their mothers, both very involved BKs with similar BK histories. Jayanti can go into trance, was a Kripalani, had a wealthy dad, spoke with a proper accent ... so was the better "ambassador".

I also think that the Germans are generally more "liberal", sensible and pragmatic than the Brits, and Indians who are more culturally restrictive, class conscious and historically bound to each other. This German sensibility influenced the intelligent Suman (as it would have the intelligent Jayanti if she was there).

Regular waves of attempts to reform and do things differently come and go in the BK micro-universe. This one coincided with the rivalry and power plays, and a third factor - what to do with Sudesh - a very flawed 'diamond' of a BK who also had professional ambition and (not always) covert rivalry with Jayanti.

This hierarchy thing brings out stuff.
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ex-l

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Re: Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post07 Jun 2013

Was Suman sent to Germany or did her family have connections there? "BK mothers and daughters ..." that's another avenue we have no explored.

Yes, Sudesh versus Jayanti ... Fight's On! Sudesh had seniority, but just was not cut out for VIP service; Jayanti had the better English and was able to play in the British class system. Going to Germany, where she could just play the Indian and be translated would give her the benefit Janki Kirpalani had in England. They like to have an Indian in place as part of their yogi branding ... and possibly, from experience, did not quite trust cavalier Westerners with their own ideas in the same way.

But what was going on in Hamburg center, and who was in charge there before?
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Re: Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post09 Jun 2013

Germany was meant to be an equal fiefdom for Suman and she was nominally Jayanti's equal, Germany numbers were on par or better than the UK if the Hindi wallahs weren't included. Surya and Suman were a formidable team in the early days, and Surya (Stephan Nagel) had quite bit of influence on Western policy early on (although I never found him to be a political "player").

Suman's family was in England - her mum was Slough? centre in charge, i.e. her parental home I believe - although I never met or heard anything about the Father.

There was tension between Germany and UK as to who had authority in Germany. I may have this wrong, but I think the crunch came when Cologne aligned with UK (or bowed to them?).

Wasn't Heidi Fittkau in charge in Hamburg for a while?
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ex-l

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Re: Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post09 Jun 2013

Yes, the records say Fittkau-Garthe had been the leader of the Hamburg branch of the Brahma Kumaris (I don't know, They might have sent some young India woman, so let's say 'leading member').

The police raid on Heidi's Tenerife Isis Healing Center was in January 1998. The authorities feared her followers were going to kill themselves either came from a tip off from her Brother in Dusseldorf or a daughter whose mother was one of the group and had had a family row.

It came to nothing. Der Spiegel, 4/1998, Ms Fittkau-Garthe said the victims of the Nazi Holocaust owed their deaths to karma, to their own bad actions in past lives. She herself claimed to have been Czar Nicholas II in a former life. A disobedient cult member had supposedly been Lenin, murderer of Fittkau-Garthe's previous incarnation's family; who could make up for that only by total obedience to Fittkau-Garthe in this life.

Apparently, Fittkau-Garthe had been the leader of the Hamburg branch of the Brahma Kumaris religious group (founded in the 1930s in India; headquarters at Mt. Abu). Der Spiegel reported that she retained its doctrine of an elite of 'golden souls', destined to reincarnate to rule the world in a new world era, and its belief in "Shiv Baba" (or "Brahma Baba") as supreme deity.

Perhaps the affair spilled back onto German BK centers?

Heidi divorced her husband after joining the BKs and coming back from India in the 80s. She had a young son at the time. The BKs broke that family.
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raistlin

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Re: Events in the BK center in Hamburg, 1998

Post20 Jun 2013

Thank you all for giving me more light for the BK events in Germany in the past. Perhaps I was wrong and it did not happened in Hamburg anything bad but somewhere else.

I did not know anything about the conflict between Suman and Jayanti. Among the Polish BKs Jayanti is like a goddess.

It is just ridiculous to close the centre "as a revenge". Just because they both had some personal ambitions and got conflicted? What the national German coordinator was doing at that moment? It just showed that the BKs have no idea how to solve problems inside the organization. Jeez ... one big BKindergarten.

By the way... I remember very similar situation in Poland in the 90s. The BK center in Szczecin was closed and disappeared from the map of Polish BK centers, because of the disloyalty and disobedience of one of the Polish Brothers who was probably center-in-charge at that moment.

He was totally disappointed and ashamed that the BKs was acting fully against the Gyan and the disciplines, and wanted some serious reforms and getting "back to the roots". I remember the scandal at the airport, just before the departure to Madhuban and we were not allowed to talk with him.

So closing the "disobedient" BK centers is nothing new for the BKs, I see.

As for Heidi/Heide ... I was thinking that urgent Sudesh inspection on Germany BK centres was just because of H. Fittkau-Garthe. But I read the "Der Spiegel 4/98" as well and ... still don't know what happened. Maybe it's not worth discussing at all ... I just don't know.

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