Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years ago

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
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Save Innocents

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post22 Oct 2014

Off the topic. So one may skip it.
I've know of India women who did not even know the word for their own vagina because it was never spoken about, and also women who have derived absolutely no sexual pleasure even from their arranged husband. And, of course, pleasuring themselves (masturbation) is a total taboo.

It seems you really have an incredible journey if that's all from personal experience. I still stick to this opinion that many (not all) forms of sex 'methods' which may be biologically accepted by now are still unhygienic. The life force & essence of everything we consume is hidden in amniotic fluid & wasting it with something like random masturbation is insane. It protects the body from diseases & you think of blowing up the immunity force. It's immature. It is said that when all other sources of happiness ends, it will support you. Now it can be interpreted in other way. It's better to masturbate than to die.

It's easy to comment like India do not promote sexuality or a taboo. Well, it is beyond measures & right in several parts of India but it is at most places in way it should be, i.e. through marriage system. We (includes most I know myself) do not believe in dating, live-in even now (though promoted excessively by Bollywood) because these methods are unreliable for Indians. Some of my friends who had GFs said that they do it on use & throw basis. Who needs love - none. I rather find those relation better which result in marriage, a promise to live for each other than to date & then leave whenever other one wants.

And to understand the necessity of everything good or what appears merely a belief to a non-Indian, I would ask to study the deplorable condition of India. Spirituality & religion is a need here. I cannot talk about West as most of them have several mediums of happiness (???). Here, it is rare. You work hard & get just a little bit of money in India to somehow manage the family & save something for future when your own kids will kick you out emotionally & if unfortunate then physically too. In that state a religion gives saturation, a belief starts supporting life positively. Bkism has surely exploited this here.

Spiritually, it is said that one who is born in India has already taken thousands of birth in other nations & his inner greed, pride, anger, attachments & all possible vices have developed to maximum extent.

So, this land becomes especial where one collides with all kind of animals like & human like humans & sheds (/binds) his accumulated dirt in the process. You can possibly not imagine the mental & physical suffering, here, one has to go through. All religions have remained to give people a reliable hope but when this mediums are violated & misused, it is shut down by nature itself. These cults are just medium or a portrayal of what had been happening here for years.

Gross form of Lakshmi or wealth is considered 11th pranic energy of human being which remains out of body & mind but controls it completely & when it is taken whether through deception or openly, it takes away life of that person. BKs are doing that what thekedaars or cruel rulers or landlords did here decades ago. All those system ended, BKism is also not an exception at all. I believe more in nature justice & know that I cannot make it happen in my ways. Even what I or others write here is just like a medium & a much bigger role will be of nature. We are aiming at one cult but nature ends all. And when religions become unnecessary, that too end.
Imagine an India were women are allowed to control their own sexuality and chose their own lovers freely and not be beaten or murdered for doing so.

Must be talking about khaps.

That is the reason why all women empowerment & education movements erupted & will go on because its needed. How long can people violate a system dictating moral code of conduct for men & women? It was there for benefits, opposed when misused. Now, it will end gradually with another new ideology set up by current generation which will again be challenged by future ones for its violation. This process continues & is called evolution of tradition.
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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post22 Oct 2014

ex-l wrote:Previously unbeknown to us all ... is this indeed a picture of Lakshmi and Narayan "doing it 'side by side'"?

Image has been edited by BKWSU by adding that its red mark emanting red colored light.

You really need to answer this? Why are you so opposed to Hinduism or a religion which did not propagate anything like that of BKWSU cult? Does one need to go against religions to fight a cult? Do you see the difference between a cult & a religion? Tomorrow a cult based on Buddhism or any other cult belief emerges & tells almost similar things but in bit different misinterpreted way. Does that mean flaw lies in Buddhism or the cult?
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ex-l

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post22 Oct 2014

The tale the BKs tell is a portrayal of Lekhraj Kirpalani as some kind of heroic and enlightened social reformer. Of course, in his time he was nothing of the sort and many of the claims about him were false, and of other individuals, or inspired by other individuals outside of the cult.

For example, the BKs claimed a "sign" of his so called specialness was that he dislike a traditional picture of Lakshmi washing Narayan's feet and so he commissioned a picture of Lakshmi and Narayan standing side by side, and this has remained one of the BKs' icons ever since; even to the point they have now trademarked it.

What they say is just not true. Lakshmi and Narayan is a traditional representation seen elsewhere. I've seen many such depictions, usually as statues though often pictures. It's another example of of their revisionism and confirmational bias. They look back and find a single and at the irrelevant act and then create a new narrative about it. Like when they got excited that Om Radhe once sang, "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" as a child and, 20 odd years later when they decided Shiva was a star, wondered at how significant it was.


The picture they reference is probably the 'Re-awakening of Narayan', a work of symbolism. It is off topic and, to be honest, of little interest to me any more, therefore I am not going to start a discussion on the use and meaning of symbolism with Hinduism ... except to say you could only believe what the BKs tell you if you had been entirely closed off to the entire world, as the Om Mandli girls were, or ignorant of Indian's spiritual traditions, like most foreigners and foreign BKs.

How normal Indians can ditch Hinduism and believe in what the BKs tell them, I find hard it difficult to understand. Needless to say, each colour, each symbol etc all had specific meanings in age which did not libraries and DVDs. Such images were essentially teaching aids ... and their symbolism does not translate to Western Culture.

Save, you are a little over sensitive towards Hinduism. It is so irrelevant and unimportant to my life, and I have so little influence in the world, that I could not be bothered "opposing" it, or really anything. It would be a pointless act and position to take.

As for a discussion of the merits of masturbation, or not ... difficult. If someone asked me a specific question, I might offer a specific answer, and the first answer would be to say it's better to get another real person to do it for you out of love and pleasure than do it by and to yourself. At least to share and interact with others you would have to make efforts and might learn something more about life.

It would be very difficult to scientifically support such theories as prana or life force ... may be, may be not ... who knows. The amount of variations in human beings are so great, it would be very difficult to draw any conclusions from studying it, e.g. some monks are killed, die in terrible circumstances and suffer specific related illnesses like cervical or prostrate cancers, some prostitutes live on into old age; some even become wealthy and influential ... what does either prove either way?

Some people have more, some people have less, excess is any direction is generally bad but can also lead to enlightenment they say.
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

You pick which one you prefer.
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awakening

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post11 Feb 2015

For all souls who swear that scientific dating methods are accurate, there are tons of other scientific R&D material available ...

IMHO, a couple of potential good starts are:

http://www.debate.org/debates/Radiometr ... ccurate/3/

and

http://creation.com/the-way-it-really-i ... ric-dating
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Pink Panther

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post12 Feb 2015

There are margins of error. But for the Gyan to be true, the margin of error has to be close to 100% i.e. the various dating methods and corollaries need to as likely to be right as to be wrong. That is not the case.

Dating processes are many and varied, and the most accurate are those that correlate/confirm each other.

Read up on how each of them work and how they tie in with other disciplines such as archeology, paleontology, history, linguistics etc. The facts from one field when they're confirmed by those of another field are hard to dispute.

I’d take tangible evidence from chemistry, archeology, geology, spectrography, genetics and lingusitics which confirm each other over the word from a possessed spirit medium any day.
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ex-l

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post12 Feb 2015

What amazes, frustrates and disappoints me is ... for all the time, money and ritual that they invest in the banal spook puppet shows ... why don't they just ask him how he came up with the 5,000 year figure etc etc etc. And hold him to answering.

They are so quick and ready prepared with answers to fob off inquiring minds, e.g. "God" does know answers like that, it's not his role"'. They spend so much of his limited time on earth in geriatric kindergarten silliness portrayed as if it was a miracle instead ... Baba/baby throws sweets ... Baba/baby raises flag ... Baba/baby fire water pistol (usually al with some else's help). Their god spirit acts like some zombie out of The Living Dead movie and they are enraptured!

Bottomline is, 5,000 years just came out of Hinduism. In Hinduism it is believed Krishna came 5,000 years ago. To the BKs, Lekhraj Kirpalani was their Krishna ... ergo 5,000 year cycle. That's it.

It functions as a mental plug for child-like minds asking, "What am I doing here? What is time? Where did we come from?" that is all. It really just means, "don't think, don't question" which you quickly get told if you start querying the facts.

The best the BKs can do is borrow idiot, outdated confusion from American Christian, 'Flat Earth' fundamentalists who otherwise the BKs think are wrong and deluded, and who think the world was made by God - which the BKs disagree with - 6,000 and a bit years ago.
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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post12 Feb 2015

Dear Souls,

Thank you for sharing your views.
Read up on how each of them work and how they tie in with other disciplines...

Thank you for the reminder, although I would like to inform you that out of my own interest in such topics, I have read and researched the matter to a certain degree and am updating myself as much as I can.

Though the extent of my research may not be comprehensive and exhaustive, I do have sufficient information from various apparently reliable sources such as public archives, key notes from scientists and other material from the scientific community, to infer that authorities themselves accept that dating methods are generally quite inaccurate.

PFB some excerpts:
But what about the radiometric dating methods? The earth is supposed to be nearly 5 billion years old, and some of these methods seem to verify ancient dates for many of earth's igneous rocks. The answer is that these methods, are far from infallible and are based on three arbitrary assumptions (a constant rate of decay, an isolated system in which no parent or daughter element can be added or lost, and a known amount of the daughter element present initially).

source: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating.html
All of the parent and daughter atoms can move through the rocks. Heating and deformation of rocks can cause these atoms to migrate, and water percolating through the rocks can transport these substances and redeposit them. These processes correspond to changing the setting of the clock hands. Not infrequently such resetting of the radiometric clocks is assumed in order to explain disagreements between different measurements of rock ages. The assumed resettings are referred to as `metamorphic events' or `second' or `third events.

It is also possible that exposure to neutrino, neutron, or cosmic radiation could have greatly changed isotopic ratios or the rates at some time in the past. It is known that neutrinos interact with atomic nucleii, so a larger density of neutrinos could have sped up radioactive decay and made matter look old in a hurry.

source: http://www.parentcompany.com/handy_dandy/hder12.htm
As in all dating systems, the ages calculated can be affected by the presence of inherited daughter products. In a few cases, argon ages older than that of the Earth which violate local relative age patterns have even been determined for the mineral biotite. Such situations occur mainly where old rocks have been locally heated, which released argon-40 into pore spaces at the same time that new minerals grew. Under favourable circumstances the isochron method may be helpful, but tests by other techniques may be required. For example, the rubidium-strontium method would give a valid isotopic age of the biotite sample with inherited argon.

"Laboratory experiments have been conducted on the solubility of argon in synthetic basaltic melts and their associated minerals.31, 32 Minerals and melts were held near 13000C at one atmosphere pressure in a gas stream containing argon. After the material was quenched, the researchers measured up to 0.34 ppm 40Ar within synthetic olivine. They noted, 'The solubility of Ar in the minerals is surprisingly high'.33 Their conclusion is that argon is held primarily in lattice vacancy defects within the minerals.

source: http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_sa_r01/

There are tons of other materials if have the desire...

Kindly note that I am not persuading you to "believe me", but rather to find comfort in truth that you will ultimately find for yourself.

I believe that even the great souls such as Buddha, Jesus and Brahma Baba attained truth only after "becoming ready" to receive the truth, which took considerable time in their respective lifespans.
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Mr Green

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post12 Feb 2015

a stone condom
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ex-l

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post12 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:... I do have sufficient information from various apparently reliable sources ...


Given that one of your sources is the Biblical 'Center for Scientific Creation' ... "In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood" ... and the Institute for Creationist Sciencem I suspect you don't even know what a "reliable sources" is. You've learnt the language but not the meaning.

Like I said before, the best the BKs can do is lean on crank Christian fundamentalist who are trying to prove a 'different' creation story, Christians who would see Brahma Kumarism as the work of Lucifer (i).
... the Lord made very clear in Exodus 20 that the creation took six days ...

OK, take one of there "proofs" ... a sabre tooth tiger was supposed to be 100 million years old but tested as 28,000 years old. Let's accept that as true ... it still blows apart the BKs 5,000 years Cycle. By BK theory, sabre tooth tigers should only be 2,500 years old. That's a mistake of more than x10. Enough to have it immediately through out the door ... which is the problem with religionists dabbling in fields they have no expertise in.

They don't even know enough to know what they don't know, even how much they don't know, or even how faulted their logic is.

So what is their strategy?

The game is to try and seed uncertainty and doubt in mainly uneducated minds that can, perhaps, be manipulated to faith in beliefs.

"A scientist was wrong ... therefore all scientists might be wrong ... therefore we might be right ... just believe because God speaks!"

Science is hard. It requires a lot of hard work from school age and expense. Belief is cheap and easy. Lazy stupid people prefer it, they prefer to hand over responsibility to others, to allow them to think for them.

Look, sort it out with the Christians first and then come back and publish some proper science paper explaining how the 5,000 Year Cycle works ... a Cycle in which your god spirit told us was meant to have been 'Destruction-ed' in WWII, 1950, 1976, 1986, 1986 to 1996 and so on. "50 years for Destruction, 50 years for Creation" the Murlis used to say.

Get your god to explain how and why. Get your University to publish one single paper in a peer reviewed journal. It's as simple as that. Stop them spending millions on PR and marketing and do some science instead.
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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post13 Feb 2015

You missed my point - OK, it’s possible that a method may have margins of error or not factored in all possibilities, but when a completely different method comes to the same conclusion, then a third, then? Just a super coincidence to be ignored?

Example - the initial testing of how effective radio carbon dating is. How would you test it?
Simple - you take something you know the age of by other means, and see if it correlates. it does. Test it a few times with other such objects, and - guess what, it does, and from those samples the margin of error can be calculated.

NOTHING is known for certain. We don’t know that the sun will rise tomorrow, or whether our memory of yesterday is actually what happened, whether we are free-thinking individuals or merely think we are. You can’t know 100% whether I, Pink Panther, am even a different person to you or whether you have a serious split personality disorder and I am your alter ego!.

We operate on ”probabilities” and "provisional certainties” - ”provisional” means - ‘to the best of our ability from all we can comprehend until new information is incorporated that requires we change our certainty” etc.

You've applied some critical rigour to investigate things like dating methods. Please apply at least that same degree of critical rigour to the claims made by BKs. Your life direction depends on it.

As JM Keynes asked, "when new facts come to light, I change my mind. What do you do?"
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ex-l

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post13 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:I believe that even the great souls such as Buddha, Jesus and Brahma Baba attained truth only after "becoming ready" to receive the truth, which took considerable time in their respective lifespans.

It's slightly off topic but ...

That is categorically not what the Brahma Kumaris teach and believe about Buddha, Jesus and the other religious founders etc. You really don't know what the BKs teach.

Let's keep all the discussion about your ideas about the BKs and spirituality to a separate topic and leave this one to archeologists and evidence of ancient copulation.

The BKs have taught since their beginning that there will be no sexual intercourse for 2,500 years, and that there was no sexual intercourse more than 2,500 years ago.

How exactly is genetic information passed on via the power of mind/Yoga? Did the "birds and bees" and other animals and even plants in the Golden and Silver Age also procreate using the power of their mind?

See moved posts, here:
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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post14 Feb 2015

Hahaha, Mr. Green ... very funny ..."a stone condom" ... lol ... for "hard rock" ...
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ex-l

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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post14 Feb 2015

quantum wrote:Hahaha, Mr. Green ... very funny ..."a stone condom" ... lol ... for "hard rock".

Hence the saying, "between a hard rock and a soft place"?

But seriously now, the BK portray large mammals in their 2,500 year long heaven ... how did they procreate, and when they died, what happened to their corpses?
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Re: Archeologists Find Earliest act of Copulation 380m years

Post16 Feb 2015

Ancient Egypt is a period of time spanning from 500 years before Christ - the end of the Silver Age heaven on Earth according to the BKs - to 3000 years before Christ ... the beginning of the Golden Age heaven on Earth according to the BKs.

It a very well documented era and yet remains unmentioned and unexplained by the so called BK University. They and their gods well most certainly sexual.

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