Who created Shiv Baba

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
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Omkar Pandirkar

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post15 Nov 2015

Yes, Pink Panther, I will find out a definite answer to my questions.

Today Dadi janki wil; be there at a hall (Shanmukha Nanda) near my residence addressing people but we have got only 2 passes.

I forgot to tell you that my parents have also done RajYoga along with my younger Brother but I was the first one to join BKWSU. I felt a need of it for no reason I was eager to do it.

And what you said ”just remember Baba, do Yoga and service” is also right.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post15 Nov 2015

Omkar Pandirkar wrote:and what you said ”just remember Baba, do Yoga and service” is also right

What every self-serving guru teaches. How does that answer anything? It’s a diversionary tactic when they have no answer.

Ask them about how do they have such a wonderful stage (Dadi Janki loves to brag - with humility) and they will talk for ages. Ask them to explain how they reconcile a simple fact of history or physics and you get silenced with ”remember Baba, do Yoga and service”.
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Omkar Pandirkar

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post15 Nov 2015

Let it be, but she is the most stable mind in the world and I appreciate her for that.

I think the BKs at centre will definitly have answers to my questions

You guys are just annoying. Neither you know the right nor you appreciate the effort of BKWSU, may be cause you guys had a bad experience with BKWSU but I do not have.
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post15 Nov 2015

Omkar Pandirkar wrote:let it be but she is the most stable mind in the world and i appreciate her for that

Except that it's not true, Omkar. The BKs know it is not true and the BK headquarters in the West had to make a formal announcement telling BK centres to stop making such a claim after we exposed them, see, here (2007).

And yet BK India keeps making the false claim.

This is a very important example of what the BKs are truly like Omkar, I hope you can think deeply about it.

What the BK headquarters in the West says is, "This has never been said by any scientist". Yet they keep claiming it, just like they claim their meditation is the "ancient Raja Yoga", when it only dates back to around 1956.

So you see a perfect example of how the BKs spread falsehoods and exaggerate about themselves, and won't even stop after they are exposed.

Do these seem like "spiritual values" or even intelligence and integrity to you?

If you don't believe us, take a copy of that to the centre and ask them if it is true.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post15 Nov 2015

I attended the centre where Dadi Janki was in charge for many years. I know her well. She has many admirable qualities as do most people, but she also has many faults, as do most people.

That is, she is no more special nor more spiritual than most people. What does "spiritual” mean anyway? It’s a vague term. She has just learnt mannerisms and ways to speak that give an impression of authority, wisdom and depth.

Omkar, I was present in the class when she returned from her trip to Texas and the story of ”the most stable mind” experiment was related. It was not a proper experiment by any means. She was attached to a simple instrument that measured alpha, beta and delta waves and some biofeedback. Although they are common and quite advanced now, these were primitive and novel in those days. She meditated while attached and was told that, according to this simple electronic device, she had a "most stable mind” which of course, among other things, depends on one’s definitions of what ”stable mind” means. That is, she could do while awake what most people did while asleep (think about it).That’s about it. The ”stable mind” story lay almost dormant for many years but with the passage of time it grew, was exaggerated and now hasreached ”legendary” or ”urban BK myth” status.

You also may have the sincerity to follow up on a real study done over ten years where Zen monks, Indian yogis and lay people were compared. Follow the link and read the part in bold - the Indian yogis (and Dadi Janki’s results) were more like the example given of ‘the reader”.

A decade later, in Australia, while I was still a BK, the BKs had a more advanced, computerised, biofeedback unit at a BK exhibition which was a primitive (by today’s standards) computer game where, based on the biofeedback, you went through paths and doors and obstacles on a computer screen, the aim being to get to the pot of gold. I got there within 2 minutes and was told by the ”Brother” manning the game I was the only one who'd managed it. What does it mean? Nothing.

I prefer a curious, busy, creative mind that discovers penicillin, eradicates measles, develops clean sustainable sources of energy, that benefits all people - regardless of religion, politics, wealth or class.

All DJ does is regurgitate and improvise from a well-worn handbook. She is a fine actor, but I have seen her mask slip many times.
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post16 Nov 2015

Omkar Pandirkar wrote:Pink Panther, it's not about religion, it was just created during the Copper Age. Before that, in both ages, there was no religion.

Omkar,

Do they teach archeology and ancient civilisations in Indian schools? Obviously not in Lekhraj Kirpalani's time, but what about today, for example, Ancient Egypt. Or even Mohenjo-daro (between 2600 and 1900 Before Christ) in the Sind.

The Pharaohs ruled ancient Egypt from about 3000 Before Christ to 500 years Before Christ, at which point they were defeated by a well developed Persian army whose religion was Zoroastrianism.

What religion did the ancient Egyptians practise and why has Baba never mentioned Zoroastrianism?

Confucianism is the basis for most East Asian society, more than 25% of the world's population, he also lived 500 years Before Christ at which point the Chinese culture which has written records going back as early as 1500 Before Christ.

Why does Baba not mention it and The Knowledge not include it in The Tree of religions?

The Sumerians, Assyrians and Babylonians dominated the region of Mesopotamia, it has a written history that goes back to 3100 Before Christ. What was their religion?

Manichaeism thrived between the third and seventh centuries. At its height, it was the most widespread religions in the world and the main rival to Christianity. Is it mentioned in the Murli?

And what about the Shamanism or animism which is practised on every continent in the world, who was its founder and where is it on The Tree of Religions?

I read 40 references to "light" in the Gita. None mention "point of light". Krishna says, "I am the light of the moon." "Of lights I am the radiant sun. Arjun's god is nothing like the BK god. The BKs think the Bhagavad Gita is degraded and deluded. It's clearly not accurate according to Gyan. So why use it as a references?
Omkar Pandirkar wrote:Quran, God exists without place, "No vision can grasp him, but His grasp is over all vision.

The Quran also says,
“Slay the idolaters (Hindus) wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”(Quran 9:5)

So why use the Quran as a reference?

The reason I am doing this is to try and make you start to think and question again. No, we do not think badly of the BKWSU because we had a bad experience, that is just what the BKs tell you to think.

It is because we saw through it and saw it as it is.

Thank you.
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Omkar Pandirkar

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post17 Nov 2015

The Quran also says,
“Slay the idolaters (Hindus) wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”(Quran 9:5)

So why use the Quran as a reference?

u hav it wrong just check this right here http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/fe ... commentary
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Omkar Pandirkar

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post17 Nov 2015

For the light part just check this video, here.



BK are not wrong and I must tell you the Destruction time has begun with Paris attacking on ISIS. It is said or rather it will be a world war 3 because every country will try their best to take down ISIS after some time.
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post17 Nov 2015

Omkar,

You are young, we are old and experienced as adults and as BKs. We were once like you.

The BKs have always gotten over excited at any crisis or disaster and they have been happening for all history.

Lekhraj Kirpalani said WWII was the Mahabharata and Destruction.

Then Baba said the Cold War was it and the World would end in a war between the USA and Soviets by 1976. Then 1986. Then 1986 to 1996.

In 1990, the BKs got all excited about the Gulf War I and said it was the start of Destruction. Destruction would take 12 years, then 40 years, then 50 years, then 60 years and now the BKWSU is past 75 years.

Do you recognise a pattern emerging here?

Please study the meaning of "confirmation bias".

Your example fails because BKs say the soul does not return to Baba after every death. It only returns at the End of the Drama. Likewise, many souls have different visions. The BK god spirit does refer to them as "the fruits of their bhkati". We could translate that into scientific terms as "their own projections based on their own cultural biases".

Trust us, we were like you once. Move on. Go ahead of us, not backwards into BKism.
Confirmation bias

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

Confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study.

Confirmation bias is a phenomenon wherein decision makers have been shown to actively seek out and assign more weight to evidence that confirms their theories, and ignore or underweigh evidence that could disconfirm their theories.

As such, it can be thought of as a form of selection bias in collecting evidence.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post18 Nov 2015

RE: the video -

A near-death experience is a ”pre-death” experience. If people who are revived say they have memories of different things happening in that time (whatever they are), those things occur in a short time frame, i.e. minutes, not hours or days.

But,
    Nails and hair keep growing for days and weeks after death.
    Is that proof hair and nails are spiritually separate entities?
If we are aware of the hallucinations or other experiences people have when they are seriously ill and we say it's delirium from the illness or the medication ... well, isn’t near-death a more acute form of illness?

I do not doubt that many such experiences are valid in themselves and can tell us much of the state of the person at THAT time.

It is only conjecture that what is experienced in life or at the limits of life (near-death) is the same as what happens after.
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post18 Nov 2015

Shiva Baba clearly claims that he only comes to earth during the Confluence Ages, that no soul is able to return to Paramdham before Destruction, so how do we understand those individuals who recorded Near Death Experiences *before* the Confluence Age?

If you study the history of spiritualistic experience, and the beliefs of many of these people, Omkar, you will discover that they include numerous phenomena that the BKs deny, e.g. the existence of many realms and of "Angels" long before any BK became "angelic" (another unproven claim).

I encourage you to study the history of "spiritualism" and shamanism widely (not spirituality), to give you a good foundation to understand BKism.

Omkar, you are young. You only have a very narrow knowledge and experience of life. You are being brainwashed into an even more narrow view of life to entrap you. In essence, to turn you into a servant or mental slave of the Brahma Kumaris.

That is not liberation in life nor enlightenment.
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Omkar Pandirkar

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post19 Nov 2015

Why did you guys leave BKWSU?

Just watch this BK movie, it's amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnYp5fMUADY
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post19 Nov 2015

Omkar Pandirkar wrote:Why did you guys leave BKWSU?

Excuse the short answer because we discussed this many times before.

When I was young, I liked to think of myself as a sincere spiritual seeker. I wanted to go to India to "seek a master" (Just what it was I thought I was looking to learn or become, I don't know now. I was very idealistic and wanted to make the world a better place. I half believed in the "magic stories" of spiritual teachers ... but, in truth, I was probably just running away from real world responsibilities).

Due to a lack of life experience and insight, I was misled, deceived and become caught up by the BKs who falsely advertised themselves as teaching Raja Yoga. I mistook their hypnotic meditation for real Raja Yoga.

In the first place, I thought I would discover spiritual truths and, I suppose, develop so I stayed for a while and tried. Soon I discovered that they really did not know anything about spirituality or even spiritualism and that they were not very enlightened. They were really just an End of the World cult, exploiting people for money, and the best BK life meant was getting up at 4am every day for life and chasing after VIPs.

I started to see the abuse, the corruption, the manipulation and dishonesty.

The final straw was their constant self-advertising and spending money chasing after VIPs. I realised that they were not enlightened at all. Anything that was really "good", "true" and "of god" would not need to boast and spend all its time and money self-advertising and chasing after impure VIPs.
Just watch this BK movie, it's amazing.

The video is really just a confidence trick.

It is a lot of fast talking, meaningless nonsense at the end of which is ... losing your life, your mind, body and money to the BKWSU. It appeals to you because it represents simple BK ideas in a fancy wrapping

It might have pretty colours and fancy graphics but it is meaningless nonsense and absolutely rubbish from both a scientific point of view. Absolute nonsense. For example, they claim "there is 98% difference between the DNA of apes and human being" ... therefore evolution cannot be true.

That is total nonsense. The complete opposite is true. In fact, we *share* 98% of our DNA with other apes.

We actually share 99 percent of our DNA with chimps and bonobos (our nearest living relatives). Does that not give you a warning of whether you can trust these people or not? It should

The video is also nothing new from 30 years ago. Pseudo-scientific BKs have been spouting this stuff for decades, e.g. reversing of the poles, struggling with ideas like ether etc. It's their way of trying to make BKism appear modern.

Ether, astral bodies, Tesla etc, that's not real BKism either.

The author commemorates Jagdish Chander at the beginning. This seems to be a new habit for BKs, to align themselves with one dead BK or another to give their views more importance.

I met Jagadish, he was a fabulist. He was responsible for making up many of the fairy stories that the BKs tell and this "Alchemy of GOD" website stuff is just more of that; some BKs' manmat and fairy stories. It's just BKism wrapped up in pseudo-scientific language designed to impress you but, ultimately, it is just bubble gum for the mind. By "bubble gum for the mind", I mean it makes the mind chew up and down but there is no nourishment to it. It has a negative mental food value.

"Definitely come true" ... really? How many times have we heard that from them?

Stick to real science before you lose your mind to this stuff. It won't help you in life.
Fabulist

A person who composes or relates fables (fairy stories), a liar or especially a person who invents elaborate, dishonest stories.

And if you are truing to "serve us" to bring us "back to Baba", please don't waste your time doing so. Been there, done that.
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Mr Green

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post19 Nov 2015

The senior members neither believe or follow the teachings.
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Omkar Pandirkar

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post21 Nov 2015

Cool, then I will see what I can do. Once again, thanks for your opinion all of you.

Good bye, Om Shanti
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