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Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 01 May 2018
by Mattheus
Admin wrote:Large copy and paste section removed. See link.

Hidden behind every major religion and tradition hides a secret, a universal truth. This universal truth is known as the Great Arkanum ...

Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 01 May 2018
by ex-l
Do you have any evidence to support your claims?

OK, Mattheus, tell us about your BK experience.

How long were you in? Why did you leave? What are you hoping to get out of being here?


Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 02 May 2018
by Mattheus
I was in BK 1984-1988 two times in Maduban, so I met BabaDada, with the blessings and so on. This was a strong experience for me. The concept of the meditation on the soul as an point of loving peaceful is subtle, and makes me happy. (I think it is an good habit to sit around 4 o clock and meditate on the soul).

My experience in my personal meditations are much stronger. The experience to sit before an old lady who claims that God came from another dimension inside of her and speaks the Avyakt Murli together with Brahma, I wonder what's the difference? Inside it feels pure and loving, outside the whole scene feels like a show where I have to compromise myself in some kind of belief system. But I am a yogi. That means that I believe in nothing else as me the self is a point of loving peaceful energy who feels the self in some kind of unity with all the souls (and God as the highest).

So I read also the Murli this last year daily, and here I found this interesting point ... The first creation of Shiva is to create Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. In my meditations, my experience changed or came into a deeper level, by realizing that this also has to be my first creation, this means that Brahma Vishnu and Shankar are also my own first creation.

From this point on, I came to the realization that I can look through the eyes of Brahma and travel in this projection through time. Here I understood or saw the problem of Brahma. You can see and feel the whole thing, but ShivBaba does not think. He/she shows me/Brahma - the essence love peace - but can not give me any number or proof. So this concept of the 5000 years comes from Brahma in the physical form, it came out of his sanskaras, his remembrance.

The concept of the soul shown in the pictures of the BK is misleading. Baba is not an outside experience for me, nor can the soul travel out to an other dimension. No, it can only travel there inside, on the energy of peace love. The pictures as a point of light you can see by concentrating is a projection on the screen of your imagination. The concept of the Golden Age, and so on, is nothing new. To say it takes only 5000 year is only another projection on another screen.

What does another 0 mean, or many 000 for Shiva, with all respect?

Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 02 May 2018
by Pink Panther
I enjoyed reading your personal experiences Mattheus, much more than the borrowed speculations you’ve posted. They have the authority of experience, and some interesting ideas and observations. Mattheus, were you in Berlin in early 1985, black hair, a bit of an artist? If so, I met you a couple of times.

To your post: For many of us who become BKs, the BK ‘jargon’ is our first vocabulary for exploring spiritual ideas and it is often hard , especially if we stay usign it as our only vocabulary, to see beyond it.

Anyone who is bi-lingual usually knows that the language used affects the understanding. It seems you are exploring where the ‘language’ of BKs doesn't sit the same within as what you have been told.
The first creation of Shiva is to create Brahma Vishnu Shankar,

Further, if you explore some of this site’s archives and other posts, you will find solid evidence that Shiva in BK history came much later, a creation of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma) probably with the help of Mumma and others, as the yugya went through upheaval.

All the predictions of Prajapati God Brahma (which is who Lekhraj thought he was) failed. And the money was running out. And Partition happened. And they were facing court cases and local social ostracism and scandals. So they moved to Abu. The first mention we find of Shiva is around 1955. The Hindu Trimurti is Brahma Vishnu Shiva, and Shankar is but one manifestation of Shiva. The first pictures, show all three with Brahma’s face.

What this is all exploring is the power of ideas, the power of Metaphor and Symbols. But BKs teach this is all literally true (when it suits them) symbolic (when it suits them) and irrelevant (when it suits them).

In other words, the BK Gyan has grown less and less definite as their teachings prove to be less and less absolute. Go well on your own journey. You may come to understand, as i have, that the soul is even less than 0.

Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 02 May 2018
by Mattheus
Yes, that is possible. I am an artist make paintings sculptures and a lot of drawings, but I see my self more as an visionaire artist. The imagination and vision is, for me, what art is about, based on the love for it, not so much the money. I was in Germany with Errol Lem (musician) and Christiaan Spaanenburg (mustage, docter). They are ex BK but I stil have contact whit them

Yes, the experience in meditation is something personal, if it is only about believing what you are told then it is copying, this brings me/you/ anyone nowhere, but it is not easy to look behind the whole system as we know it because this is based on propaganda and brainwashing, from the beginning of the history until now controlled by only a few people; banks, pharmaceutical companies, communications, science, governments, religions. This is done so well that most of us can see it but do not believe it because of the brainwashing. These same people have the same agenda as the BK about the end of the world as we know it now.

We cannot see the soul nor feel it but by focus with the right energy (love, peace) we can find the right frequency so that when the thought comes into matter ... I can experience the soul in its blissful radiation.

Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 03 May 2018
by Pink Panther
I can experience the soul in its blissful radiation

This sentence has subject in relationship to object.

Subject - ” I "
Who is it that experiences the soul?
Can the eye see itself?
Can a tooth bite itself?

Object - ”soul"
What is it exactly that’s being experienced?
A word ‘imagined', a thing defined, a physical sensation, a mental formation, a combination of some of these ?
Beyond the experience as it is, is it wise to hang all kinds of theories and conjectures from it, or is it wiser to strip away all names, assumptions and unfounded secondary ideas so we might experience it more completely for itself and let it reveal deeper knowing?

Is it the constructed framework of mentation, the "chanted” affirmation, that's determining our experience, which gives feedback that confirms the framework?
Is the experience independent of the framework, is the framework only a starting point or catalyst?
Does the starting point or catalyst then define/limit the destination i.e. experience?
Can we know what more is possible if we stay attached to the framework?
Does our mentation build a wall and ceiling, is there a doorway, to...?
What if we abandon the raft once we are across and go on without it, to see what else is possible, where else we can go?

Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 03 May 2018
by ex-l
Pink Panther wrote:Subject - ” I "
Who is it that experiences the soul?
Can the eye see itself?

This is actually a critically important line of enquiry and I will be interested in your response Mattheus.

Personally, I've never denied that practising BK meditation gives some people, but strangely not all people, strong experiences. Perhaps even stronger or more easily achieved than other spiritual practises that generally appear to take years or also "never" to achieve.

However, I do question the labelling and conceptualisation that the BKs lay on top of the experiences. Even in their use of words like "bliss", never mind "God", or their practise of supposed having different qualitive experiences at will, e.g. "today we experience bliss ... tomorrow we experience contentment ... on Wednesday super sensuous joy" as if they are candy bars being dispensed from a machine.

It appears that despite physically leaving or not attending the BKWSU - which is what I understand you say you have done - you've largely stuck with the BK world view and conceptualisation, even to the point of practicising BKism (reading Murlis daily) ... but by yourself.

That you've adopted a position of accepting BKism as the ultimate path but considering your own understanding of it is superior to the average, conformist "subject" BK?

If 'your god' the same god as the BK god spirit and is it the god of all religions? Or do you have a modified or more traditional conceptualisation of "God" now? I don't know if you have read, but one of the discoveries we made was that up until 1955 or 56, there was no Shiva in the BK religion, that their history had been considerable re-invented, that in the early days, Lekhraj Kirpalani was their god and they conceived of "Divine Light" more as a traditional style impersonal "infinite Brahm element" realm.

I would be interested in your reply, but please do not allow me to distract from your response to Pink's important line of enquiry.

Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 03 May 2018
by Mattheus
drawing 1

Firstly, before I answer, I need to say something about myself. I was 20 years old when I was studying on The Rijksakademie for Arts in Amsterdam. One of the professors told me something like real art comes from the inside, beyond thoughts, if you are focused on the outside there are a lot of thoughts and you can only copy others. So I found a Buddhist where I learned about controlling the thoughts then, when I was 26, I found the BKs. For me, it was interesting because this was also about some kind affirmation.

Then later I did Subud for 10 years, an Indonesian spiritual practice. This is, in essence, about surrendering by led say movements and making sounds. All the time I did also my silence meditations.

I read these Murli now because I try to figure out why my meditations in these concept of the BK are that strong. I try to find out by studying what the secret is behind the lines is and that secret is, I think, the frequency of peace, love, and bliss. This is not patented by the BK. Then, in the Murli, the statement of the first creation Brahma, Shankar and Vishnu is interesting by the association with the essential archetypes.

I made last year a lot of drawings about this subject.

One of these drawings is a circle with a point in the middle and 3 spirals in the form of a pyramid, bending around the point in the centre. This drawing gave me the association with an atom. I, my meditations, saw that when I project one of these creations on the screen of my mind, I really could feel a warm sense not only in the centre of my head but also in my body. My association was OK. That's how these Buddhist can sit warmly on a cold mountain.

The radiation of the soul in the matter is of course my own association, I guess, perhaps it is not possible not to fool yourself.

Re: Golden Age/†he Great Arkanum

PostPosted: 04 May 2018
by Pink Panther
Nice work Mattheus.

You say, "I try to figure out why my meditations in these concept of the BK are that strong”.

We’ve all thougth about this as we try to unravel how it was we got so embedded inside this cult. For most of us, we were held here by the glue of the strong meditation experience. Every time we had a good puff, we were in ”the Subtle Regions”.

Yes, it is a most powerful technique. But, as you say, what is at its heart is not a BK patent. Even your art teacher in Amsterdam touched on it. Carlos Castaneda’s Don Juan spoke about it, and it is found in all shamanic and relgious mystical traditions, to find what is ”behind the lines” or 'between the lines'.

There’s a few things which I think made/makes BK meditation powerful for many of us. For many, not all, of us it is the first disciplined approach to meditation we have done so it affects (for better or worse) any other meditations we do. Its technique is an inward "call & response” technique of affirmations then sitting within those affirmations which make us feel good. Then as we let go of the articulated thoughts and sit in the expanded silent spaces between them, supporting that base, explaining that experience, is the subtlest appeal to the ego - the idea that I am and will be forever, i.e. I am eternal soul.

The BK Gyan is essentially a house of cards built on ego stroking, immortality, status, specialness and elitism. It does draw on mythical Hindu figures and stories in a revisionist way. Those with minds that think and eyes that see understand these are archetypes and symbols and not in themselves absolutes. I remember bugging Dadi Janki and others asking what the reality was with B, V & S and The Cycle etc as I tried to reconcile ”the vibe” and the logic. I was never satisfied, never reconciled, except when I developed my own work-arounds - rationalisations and equivocations, that is excuse-making, as I didn’t want to admit that it was nonsense, or they had it wrong, which meant I had it wrong. Again ego, ego demands our loyalty to itself, and (Freudian) superego demands loyalty and commitment to our "team".

Now i realise that all I was doing was making excuses not to change. Ego loves the status quo, especially when there is a big prize by holding onto it. Even the Murli says it’s a "pure" golden ego and a golden cage. Even the Murli says it is about creating new sansakara, rather than seeing saskara/samkara for what they are, transitional and conditional, rather than being able to be free from the tyranny of any sanskaras/samkhara - mental formations.

You and I are similar in that we used the BK technique to go into the silence which is at the heart of mystical experience. But the true fruit of any meditation is seen in how we think, feel and act in the rest of our lives, not when we’re sprouting jargon or doing rituals.

Real pukka BKs are practically defined by how they are stuck in the BK words, values and routines, their fear of living a 'whole’ life - body and mind - in the world today, fear of their inner impulses, and sometimes just fear of what life would be like if they left BKs. Better the devil you know (is the English saying). BKs practice affirming insecurity in everything except BK-ness. (This is not what happens at the beginning, its what happens in the longer term).

Many people just want to be told how to live life. Give over, take no responsibility for struggling with developing ones own morals, ethics and personal philosophy or which "approved activities” will give good outcomes. Just follow the leader. They need to be told if they are living right. (Who was it who said all philosophy is about how to live the good life?). Dadi Janki in one London class called a devout middle aged mother to stand up and praised her. Why? Because she rang DJ to check if it was wasteful to buy some new tea towels. BKs are taught to be happy to be emasculated, infantilised, desexed.

It was easier when we were a child. Don’t think, sing praises and you will be rewarded. In Buddhist philosophy this is training yourself to be in the third of the three afflictions - stupor/delusion.