Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
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ex-l

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post21 Apr 2020

Meanwhile, BKs claim BKism increases inner immunity and "serves" the world just by thinking at it. In the UK, they went into a three week lockdown mid-March and, I suspect, are still in it.

The lockdowns are damaging small to medium sized business of which they are one in general. Many will not survive the effects of it upon their incomes. The BKs will, of course, still be having to pay rent on all their shop fronts.

I wonder if they are claiming government compensation for all their unpaid workers?


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Pink Panther

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post22 Apr 2020

ex-l wrote:Presently, I am reading and watching fairly large scale, militarized stand offs by what I would call the Idiot Right in the USA, supported by the Idiot President, who are turning the lockdown into a "constitutional debacle" and demanding their "right" to go out, associate, and become infected

They are sincere Right To Life activists - even the SARS-2 Covid19 virus has a right to life! :D

You might say such protests - which get more publicity than their attendance numbers warrant - indicate a serious lack of education. It becomes more interesting in sociological terms to note that some of these rallies are organised by group run or funded by the DeVos Family, and then that Elizabeth (Betsy) DeVos is Trump’s choice as US Secretary of Education, she who has spoken out against secular public schools and for Christian private schooling that includes creationism. Her Brother owned and ran the Blackwater security firm of mercenaries that hugely profited from Iraq war contracts and were involved in serious war crimes, of course part of the Cheney/Rumsfeld neo-con artist network. Her husband is a major donor and influencer inside the Republican party. All this points to a concerted dumbing down of the American polity for the personal gain of a few manipulators.

Mark Twain said ”Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level then win with experience.” So too, it seems the government that people vote for will also lead them - up or down - to their level!

Osteopathy - is indeed studied and practiced at a much higher level in the USA than in the UK or Australia. Osteopathy and Chiropractic are a mechanical paradigm. So too is surgery, more extreme, less reversible, yet more acceptable. Medical doctors these days mostly take a chemical (pharmaceutical) view.

Australia has realised that there is money to be made from ”alternative” therapies like Osteopathy and Chiropractic, even though they are not seen as ”doctors”. They do this, for better and worse, by changing the standards then requiring ongoing Compulsory Professional Development (CPD/CPE) points to be earned annually, so therapists can stay recognised by health insurance funds (the main reason any therapist bothers). This creates a large industry in different kinds of professional education for workshops, conferences, books etc which gain you points. It gives the health insurers huge leverage over the therapies.

For example, about 10 years ago, the two largest insurers decided that they would now only pay out on treatments by Remedial Massage therapists who had done 300 hours of supervised practice, triple what anyone who'd qualified in previous years had to do. Masseurs who'd worked effectively for many years without any problem would lose their accreditation with those health funds, which for many affected a majority of their clients, ie potentially losing them. So experienced therapists either had to do the full course again - including another 300 hrs supervised - or a do bridging course. The cheapest of these bridging courses was over $5,000, many were 4 times that. Then the CPE points still need to be gained annually which can cost $thousands too if you aren't careful. It’s a scam, capitalism at work.
ex-l wrote:Meanwhile, BKs claim BKism increases inner immunity and "serves" the world just by thinking at it. In the UK, they went into a three week lockdown mid-March and, I suspect, are still in it.

    1. Doesn't mean you aren't a carrier, infecting others.
    2. Obviously UK and US BKs aren’t yogi enough. I put Australia's relatively successful containment of the contagion down to my spiritual guitar playing. ;)
ex-l wrote:I wonder if they are claiming government compensation for all their unpaid workers?

I know in Australia that since long before the pandemic, some BKs are getting Unemployment Benefits from government, exploiting the exceptions to the official requirements for proof that you are looking for paid employment, one of which includes doing a certain number of hours '‘volunteering for a registered charity", i.e. the BKs. So not only do the BKs not pay for their labour, the taxpayer subsidises it!

BK org. also gets full refund for any GST (VAT/sales tax) paid and don't pay tax on any capital gains, monetary donations, investments or merchandise sales etc.

GuptaRati 6666

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post22 Apr 2020

An excellent example was the in person voting in Wisconsin, last week. The right wing predominant senate over rode a mandate by the Governor to post pone the voting until June. Folks lined up, voted and are now infected. There was one GOP political clown dressed up with mask and surgical gown urging folks to vote in Wisconsin.

Though I am an Independent, all Americans and folks around the world have a right to protest against the lockdown. There is emerging evidence from immuno-virology studies that the lockdown can be ended in a few weeks to a month. Sure, the novel coronavirus is lethal, but the most susceptible persons are those with pre-existing or co-morbid conditions, ie chronic illnesses, which compromise their immune systems and they can die from those chronic illnesses. Sero-epidemiological evidence from studies at Stanford University Medical School are indicating that there are many individuals who were infected at least a year or less ago, and did not have the illness.

Then there is the reliability of the tests for SARS-COV-2. Some tests have 70% false positives. When 100 individuals are tested, 70 will have results indicating that they are infected, when they are not infected. Doctors have been told by the US CDC to certify any uncertain death associated with respiratory illness as being caused by the coronavirus. No autopsies are conducted nor are any tests used to confirm the causes of death. The De Voss family, the Prince family, are examples of the types of VIPs the BKs love to interact with. Many such individuals are the ones who will be purchasing the failed small, medium, and large businesses forced to close due to the lock down.

With respect to the BKs claiming that Raja Yoga generates immunity, they can be charged and fined for making false medical claims if they have no evidence-based data to substantiate their claims.

Sure, psychoneuro-immunology has advanced far beyond the pioneering studies of Ader and Cohen, 40 years ago. Investigators are demonstrating that mind-body interventions, including mindfulness and mantra meditation can modulate the immune system.

The BKs need to show the world the results of their randomized control trials demonstrating Raja Yoga's ability to positively modulate the immune system.

GuptaRati 6666

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post22 Apr 2020

It's great and sweet, with respect to Jayanti's discourse. But some information in the first part of her response is just simply wrong. Countries cannot rely on the data of the World Health Organization and even governments in those countries. This I know as a doctor who worked and conducted research in the tropics.

The current director of the WHO has a very dark past. I personally and formally know many doctors around the world who are more qualified than him for the position of WHO Director General and some are veterinary surgeons. What do the BKs know about OMOHOW, one medicine, one health, one world?

There is Dr. David Satcher, former US Surgeon General and Director of the CDC. Then there is Admiral Roscoe Moore, a veterinary surgeon from the US Public Health Service and Ex-Assistant US Surgeon General. One other could have been Ex-US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy. When the numbers of mortality due to COVID 19 are carefully examined, the numbers include individuals who have died from influenza and other respiratory conditions.

I am shocked that Jayanti would respect the data from WHO. The US Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta has patents on many vaccines developed in its laboratories. The players behind the current pandemic have the aim of a vaccine and mandatory vaccination. Most vaccines are loaded with toxic impurities. The BKs love to travel lets see them line up with their sleeves folded or nostrils ready for the dirty/toxic vaccines for COVID-19!

The rest of her response is a lecture on sanyas Yoga. Yes we should take this opportunity to look within ourselves, but how much practice have the BKs done relative to their preaching of compassion and universal brotherhood and sisterhood. Would you not be contributing to hatred, when in the 21 century a BK would call a black person a low species primate? The head of European BKs is sorely out of touch with some aspects of global politics. I am shocked, but not surprised.
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ex-l

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post24 Apr 2020

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:The players behind the current pandemic have the aim of a vaccine and mandatory vaccination. Most vaccines are loaded with toxic impurities. The BKs love to travel lets see them line up with their sleeves folded or nostrils ready for the dirty/toxic vaccines for COVID-19!

Two interesting problems for them,
    a) Will the vaccines be "sattvic", eg many vaccines are grown from egg products or worse? (Short answer, they won't care and will make exceptions at will ... "remember Baba and take the shots").
    b) Will this not deeply curtail the international global trotting and VIP hobnobbing of their senior Sisters, who otherwise will become the primary source of infection within the cult?
Keep an eye on the dead BKs "transitions" list to see how far and well it spread within their community.*

Just as the global economy is headed into a recession from the virus's effects, expect the BK economy to suffer likewise, eg will VIPs be as willing to welcome guest who have been travelling the world over? All of the typical networking opportunities, eg conferences, UN gigs etc, will be shut down. Senior Sisters won't be able to fly around as usual keep the plates spinning.

At least it will reduce their carbon footprint.

Give the high level of discipline/submission to authoritarian rule and lack of physical contact, one might expect the BKs to have a low level of spread, however, both the problem of being India based, and the question of how quickly they responded leaves one asking whether they acted quickly enough to stop it taking root, eg a group of Russians were trapped in Madhuban for a while by India's lockdown.

May be problems in the group hostels they have followers living in.

* (Note also how surely 100s of low ranking Indian BKs that die never make it onto that list).
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ex-l

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post24 Apr 2020

Oh, and how exactly do the BKs believe all viruses will be killed off before 2036, ready for a pure, Golden Age?

It appears there are plenty of idiots in other religions doing their bit to make this crisis worse, from Islamic Mullahs proclaiming not just that viruses will not spread in Mosques "because it is God's house", but that anyone who dies from Covid-19 "will become a martyr", therefore they must carrying on practising as normal. It's Ramadan for them.

In South Korea, one extreme Christian cult religion, Shincheonji, is at the heart of another epicentre and is facing legal action for doing so. It's believes are very similar to BKism, but within a Christian context.

GuptaRati 6666

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Post24 Apr 2020

The BKs have another chance this time a chance in almost 100 years to clean up their house, with respect to erroneous claims. When respecting the WHO are authentic, the BKs should remember that among the 50% of funds given to the WHO are private organizations including Big Pharma. The houses of God where viruses will not survive in the air will be those in which the air is infused with ozone from ionic purifiers.
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ex-l

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post25 Apr 2020

A touching story. Only a week or so after 100 year old BK Janki Kirpalani died, a 99 year old Thomas Moore (born 30 April 1920), informally known as "Captain Tom" and a former British Army officer, has raised over £28.7 million in aid of a genuine charity as a response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

On 6 April 2020, at the age of 99, he began to walk around the garden of the home he lives in, in aid of "NHS Charities Together" to support health workers during the COVID-19 pandemic, with the goal of raising £1,000 by his hundredth birthday. He has co-recorded a cover version of the song "You'll Never Walk Alone", which has topped the UK music charts, making him the oldest person in history - at 100 years old - to have a number one single.

GuptaRati 6666

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Post26 Apr 2020

The 99 year veteran is not just thinking, he is also acting. The BKs do not have a monopoly on God Almighty. There are yogis, mystics, spiritual folks who by their prayers, meditations, and actions help to nullify the evil or negative energies, which seem to be predominant. Shivani's video seems to be a script for hypnosis. Does she know that in the technical jargon of hypnosis she was employing the hypnotic techniques of ego strengthening! There is such a technique in hypnosis.

It is fine to fortify the immune system by positive imagery. There is the link between our immune system, our nervous system, thoughts, and gut microbial system. The BK may energize her or himself, but then she or he has to then re-enter the world of negativity in the BK community, with its many sources of toxicities, which can be energy draining.
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Pink Panther

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Post26 Apr 2020

Gupta

Most of us are familiar with the many claims against the WHO etc and the influence of big pharmaceutical industries over policy etc. We need to separate things out a little.

There is valid science, there is misrepresented science, there is bogus science. All is going on at the same time.

There are benefits gained from an advanced large pharmaceutical industry, like expensive long term R&D etc, and the problems that arise when that size and influence is abused. There are medicines that are effective, harmless and low cost, and there are others that are not all of these things.

The world has gained huge benefit from large international organisations like the WHO and there are always problems, real and potential, with such organisations. However the good work continues aong with the the probable grifting that goes on by certain people within the organisation. A parallel would be the American health system where front line workers are doing as good a job as anyone could while being hampered, even exploited, nay - even endangered, by profit -motive driven business models.

As for the criticisms and accusations of Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director General of the WHO, whether they are partially of completely true, he also has a positive record of things he has achieved or helped achieve as a counter-balance. The world is better off for having a WHO even in its imperfect form than not having it.

The real world - and the BK world is part of that - is made of people (organisations are groups of people) who have integrity and competence, and others who are incomplete in one or both of those. Managing all these variables is the stuff of politics.

The thing that cripples a lot of individuals’ ability to live well in this world is the sabotaging that arises from unrealistically high expectations imposed on ourselves or on others, by our selves or by others. BKs are particularly prone to this - BKs use this as a weapon against others (set ”perfection” - whatever that is, or ”Sri Mat” etc as a standard then criticise those who don't achieve it) or, by accepting imperfection is ”inferior” , leaving themselves vulnerable to manipulation by others. And sometimes both.

Effort to maintain integrity and competence is ongoing, but, even with some corruption, the world is better for the WHO especially with the great work done in poorer countries especially, with all kinds of programs. EG Smallpox eliminated, Polio 99.99% eliminated, malaria rates down by more than 50%, TB clinics etc.

If the WHO, imperfect as it is, ceased to exist the world is definitely going to be very substantially worse off. Could the same be said about the BKs?
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Pink Panther

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Post27 Apr 2020

I should maybe put this in the Quotes section but I think it is relevant here (up to you administrator!).

This quote relates to my previous post above. It is by George Soros, a much maligned Hungarian Jew and Holocaust survivor who became one of the world’s richest men. When I see someone like him demonised to the extent he is, I look at the source of this demonisation and who that appeals to. Soros is a main target of the US right wing, especially the neo-conservative network that seeks to roll back regulation on business, the welfare state, and attack any vestiges of ”socialism” which is really their euphemism for limits to their selfish greed and rapaciousness. He is named in any anti-semitic conspiracy theory about Jews and banking etc, ie Jew+Money = less trustworthy than WASP+money.

I particularly like him despite his apparent contradictions* because he is a leading advocate of Karl Popper’s political philosophy of the Open Society, a practical adaptation to ”the real world” that Popper evolved from his influential philosophy of science and epistemology. [It was Popper who came up with the fundamental axiom that science can disprove a theory absolutely but it can never prove anything absolutely, it can only prove anything provisionally. That for a theory or hypothesis to be ”scientific” is must be ”disprovable”, have some basis by which it can be tested. Otherwise if it can’t be tested, it is equal to every other theory that cannot be].

THEN Soros puts his money where his mouth is, practically. He funds projects that promote social democratic values and systems, particularly in eastern Europe. He is currently one of the major opponents of Polish and Hungarian trends towards nationalistic xenophobia and fascism.

The US Republican Right demonise him and make him a part of all kinds of conspiracy theories because, yes, he supports politics to Left of what the US calls "centre” and even exercises his legal right to donate to Democrat candidates in the US. So, this is he, make up your own mind.
“The concept of open society is based on the recognition that our understanding of the world is inherently imperfect. Those who claim to be in possession of the ultimate truth are making a false claim, and they can enforce it only by imposing their views on those who differ.

The result of such intimidation is a closed society, in which freedom of thought and expression is suppressed. By contrast, if we recognize our fallibility, we can gain a better understanding of reality without ever attaining perfect knowledge. Acting on that understanding, we can create a society that is open to never-ending improvement. Open society falls short of perfection, but it has the great merit of assuring freedom of thought and speech and giving ample scope to experimentation and creativity.”

George Soros, 'Open Society – Reforming Global Capitalism'.

* He minimises his taxes as far as legally possible using all the legal tricks that any neo-liberalist business person would, saying that as these are the rules of the game as it is now played and by playing it well, he is not disadvantaged relative to those who use their funds for opposite ends, he is in generating the revenue needed to try to change the rules or at least keep some semblance of fairness in society.

GuptaRati 6666

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Post27 Apr 2020

Pink,

Thank you for your extensive and indepth response.

During my years in medical school, I dreamed of one day working as a physician-scientist at the WHO. I thought in my dreams that it would be the most noble service for a BK undergoing efforts to be part of the Golden Age. Never mind the BKs telling us at that time, that scientists would be slaves/servants in their Golden Age and doctors, dentists, and veterinarians will not be needed in their Golden Age.

I have worked in developing countries as a clinician and in developed countries where I have undergone all of my formal training as a physician-scientist. I have seen as a health worker at the front lines and in the trenches the ways in which the WHO and the CDC would in bold faced ways, manipulate to support maleficent policies of regimes. I have also seen how the BK top brass would leave BK doctors in the gutters to suffer, who are dissidents so as to support a dictatorial regime, which can serve the BKs' agendas.

I have also seen the ways corporations have stifled the quest for natural health, natural living, and wellness of the poor, the middle class, and the working class. Now, all of the health foods in Colorado have been closed by the state government and there is an effort to extend the closing all over America. I have worked as an investigator in fortune 500 R & D, research and development laboratory.

Every single pharmaceutical agent has toxic side effect. The effort in R & D, is to increase the margin of safety for humans and animals, and also reduce the index of toxicity. Scientific medicine is excellent in acute health, but has failed when managing chronic illness, which have many of their origins in the soul or psyche. Part of the failure of scientific medicine in managing chronic illnesses, has been its surrender of understanding the psyche to religion, especially the Christian religion.

I would not support the demolishing of the WHO or the BK institution. I would support reform in both institutions. I am still grateful to the BKs for teaching me the ABCs of spirituality and mysticism. Today, I have no regrets about not working as a physician-scientist for WHO or the Pan American Health Organization.

I can understand how and why you like Mr. Soros. Some of my mentors have been the contemporaries of giants, including Professor Christian Barnard. Chris Barnard was in some ways a rebel who had to leave established medicine and set up his own shop. I admire him for setting up his own shop.

GuptaRati 6666

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Post27 Apr 2020

Just not to be labelled as being a chauvinist, there are many great lady physicians who can do a better job than the current director of the WHO. Some have been my graduate school professors, others, risk their lives working in the trenches as physicians and physician-scientists.
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Pink Panther

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Post28 Apr 2020

Gupta,

Thanks for sharing your experience in these areas. What you describe often leaves the rest of the world shaking its collective head. I may have said this before but, well, the USA is another planet. In fact, we have a TV program here in Australia about US politics called ”Planet America” !

The proof? Look at the system they tout as the greatest democracy and then who that throws up as as president! As John McEnroe would say, ”You cannot be serious!”

As to chairing the WHO etc - many chairpersons or Directors - general are not ”Executive officers” - that is, they are merely overseers and spokespersons. For sure many of them, not just in NGOs and multilateral organisations but even in small and medium enterprises, are overpaid for what they do and exploit the position for other benefits. I know some ex-politicians who get paid $millions per annum to attend 30 minute board meetings a few times a year, and they sit on a number of boards!

I have been quite impressed by Dr Michael Ryan who is the Executive Director, WHO Health Emergencies Programme who speaks clearly, straightforwardly and from a place of real experience with pandemics.

Like political parties are swayed by dependence on donors’ interests, big pharma decisions are driven by shareholder interests and WHO-type organisations need to keep donors onside. It becomes a vicious circle - donors to political parties may be big Pharma companies who supply WHO and WHO is made up of appointees by govts influenced by big pharma whose major shareholders are other corporations and investment bodies with their own interests.

This is where the tension between public interest and under-regulated capitalism comes into stark relief. I find most commentary from the USA seems unable to conceive of doing things in ways that limit the influence of those whose vested interest is profit.

GuptaRati 6666

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Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post28 Apr 2020

Pink,

I used to think that institutions like the BKs were going to be in the trenches and front line and proactively helping to make the world better. But I was quite wrong, like many of us here on this and other websites. The United States of America is a corporation built on slave labor by acts of genocide against the Red People, who are erroneously called Indians or Native Americans. The world will be surprised that the very criminals manipulation the HIV AIDS epidemic, are the same criminals behind the current pandemic, and were also behind the Ebola outbreaks. The names include: Fauci, Gallo, Redfield, Gates. But surprise, surprise, these are the very individuals who will be courted by the BKs! Would the BKs be interested in chatting with Dr. Vandana Shiva or Dr. Peter Dusberg? No, some of the corporate patrons of BK will be upset, should the BKs ever contact individuals, including Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

A question the BKs have be answering by their dharna is: How can we replace capitalism with deity rule, while enjoying all elements of capitalism?

I share the link below:

The Gary Null Show – PLAGUE OF CORRUPTION: The case against our federal health agencies and its handling of COVID19 pandemic
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