Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
  • Message
  • Author
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1796
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post29 Apr 2020

I don't go in for the conspiracy theories against Gates and Fauci et al.

Example - The accusations against Gates that Robert Kennedy Jnr makes, exploiting not only his privileged position but also his famous family name as an anti-vaxxer spokesperson, are simply repetitions of unfounded and blatantly wrong claims . One major claim is Gates funded forced experimental HPV vaccines on young women in India around 2012-2015.
HPV (Human papillomavirus) is a major cause of a main type of cervical cancer and is transmitted through sexual contact.

Now, besides fact checker sites debunking the claims on solid grounds, there’s historical reasons to ignore it as well.

An Australian, Dr Ian Frazer and his team developed an effective HPV vaccine around 10 years before that (2005) and it is very successfully used around the world since. It is given free in schools to adolescents - voluntary, not mandatory - as they enter puberty. There have been no issues with it. There is no reason for the ”experimentation” in India. Gates was never in conflict with the Indian govt over this.

RK Jnr is a lawyer - he should know better. Or maybe he is doing what lawyers do (which gives them a bad name saying whatever is takes to confuse or sway the jury, throw enough mud til enough sticks, leaving it to the other side’s lawyers to counter it).

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 532
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post29 Apr 2020

I do not peddle conspiracy theories, my Brother. Please go to Gary Null's show today, April 29, 2020. Dr. Null interviewed the scientist who used convalescent plasma to successfully combat Ebola in Africa. Unfortunately, due to Dr. Fauci, his direct intervention, the lady was imprisoned because her investigations in the laboratory demonstrated that Fauci was fabricating data. Pink there are peer-reviewed, published papers, documenting that Dr. Fauci as director of National Institutes for Allergy and Infectious Diseases approved the the 3.7 M grant funding corona research at the Wuhan Virology Institute. Fauci's skeletons in his closet can be lined up from the HIV AIDs out break through the early 2000 flu epidemic, the Ebola out break, and the current COVID 19 pandemic, which is not a pandemic; its not conspiracy theories. Fauci is not a bench scientist; he used to be one. He is a paper pushing science administrator. There is a distinct difference between a bench scientist, a lab rat and a paper pushing science administrator.
Vaccine research and development is time consuming and all vaccines are contaminated with viral particles, some good many pathogenic. Please show me the documentation of a vaccine, which is 90% pure. Let's say the viral antigens for a vaccine are cultured in tissue culture consisting of dog kidney cells. The tissue culture of dog kidney cells is already containing viruses resident in the kidney tissue and cannot be removed with out killing the kidney tissue. When the viral antigens are harvested, the contaminating virus, including corona viruses are also harvested. The resident tissue viruses will contaminate the vaccine.
Gates is no great philanthropist; he may seem to be helping the poor. Gates, a Harvard drop put wanted to get rid of highly competent and dedicated teachers. I wish Mr. Gates, and I dare him to teach computer science to a school in the Bronx! He would not last for a single 40 minute period. Let Mr. Gates and his wife and his children be immunized with the vaccines he has been funding.
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1796
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post30 Apr 2020

That is a list of circumstances that do not go directly to anything.

Fauci authorised research money to Wuhan Virology Institute. So? China and USA developed a good relationship in these areas after SARS, MERS and Ebola where they worked together with great success until the Trump presidency. Is this ”proof” by word association? Proof of what, That they created the C19 virus intentionally ? "We don't like Covid 19 which began in Wuhan, Fauci gave money to Wuhan institute therefore Fauci is to blame?” . That is a non-sequiter if ever there was one.

Fauci is a pen pusher? So? Health systems need administration people. Not every Indian can be a chief and a chief is rarely a young warrior.

Trump halved the number of Americans in China working with them on pandemic research etc. He stripped the CDC of funds. Trump took American personnel out of the UN pandemic response committees so they did not attend the meetings with updates etc. Trump ignored his own advisors and officials from December through to late March - and is still fighting what they say needs doing, forcing them into mangling language so it sounds like there is a simple message and policy so they can do what they can in a difficult situation. On the ther hand, Gates and Fauci have given public talks years before the current pandemic about the need for pandemic preparedness, yet Gates and Fauci are culpable? Out to rule the world and eat your babies?

The story you relate about Harvard teachers and Gates view of them has as much to do with what the ”theories” accuse him of as what he didn’t like at the Harvard cafeteria.

What does "purity of vaccines” mean anyway?
Nearly any medicine, herbal or otherwise, and is a kind of a ”poison” designed to elicit a bio-chemical response. If not is it either food or neutral, ineffectual. It is exactly what a vaccine is designed to do, to elicit a recognition of a ”poison’ that the immune system otherwise would not respond to ( in time), or conversely, may over-react to, causing other problems. Even basic foods or water become a poison, harmful, at a certain dosage and or frequency. I am no doctor but if i am wrong in principle, please correct me.

Not saying anyone is an angel, just that if a charge is made, the evidence - for that charge - needs to be shown. Just repeating stuff, especially proven untruths like the India HPV accusation - to build a mythology works on some people - it sells products and wins elections. But words are cheap.

"Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10447
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post30 Apr 2020

A polite request to keep discussion referring to or centered back on BKism. I guess you guys must have personal blogs or something, or that there is elsewhere to debate such issues.

For the sake of our primary purpose, I think we should err on the side of established sources. The USA does appear to have a tendency to produce outliers such as Gary Null who are involved in the commercialising of spreading questionable memes, all based on very similar structures or formats, as a response to - yes, I agree - excesses in its over-commercialised medical system.

Invariably, part of those structures is an 'appeal to authority' fallacy based on weak or spurious accreditation based on distance learning or outright fraudulent diploma mills which, if we are to be exactly, includes Gary Null's claim to having a PhD.

I include this as my input to BKs, exiting-BKs, or friends and family of BKs, a lesson and encouragement to check credentials before jumping to conclusions. In my opinion, Null's primary qualification was in business and, essentially, that is what he runs. He excites people by spinning controversies which may or may not be true ... and then, like the BKs (who spin controversies that are more certainly not true), he sells products off the back of them.

Correct me if I am wrong but, again like the BK experts he does not actually appear to have gone to a *real* university at all, and hence operated outside of a rigorous review system.

Like the BKs, Null has also employed lawyers with spurious integrity in an attempt to silence critics (see link above). I note that, like those he criticises in allopathic medicine, his products have also killed people.

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 532
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post30 Apr 2020

Ex-I,

Thank you for your comments. There are brick and mortar universities and there are some, which are hybrid. The hybrid is a combination of online learning and brick and mortar. No offense and with all due respect to you, check Dr. Null's alma mater, where he did his doctoral studies. I also think that, before becoming hot headed, and painting online tertiary education with a broad brush and equating Dr. Null with the BKs, there is some analysis for you to do. Dr. Null's primary critics are quack busters, employed by Big Pharma, the Military Industrial Complex, and the Medical Industrial Complex.

Dr. Null is a highly gifted health entrepreneur, health scientist, author, inventor, journalist, and political activist. If you think that institutions such as Union, AT Still University are diploma mills, please, with all due respect to you, become one of their online students and taste the academic rigor of their training. What are all of the universities and non-tertiary forms of education doing now? They are all online. Harvard, MIT, the University of Florida Gainsville have been managing successful on-line graduate programs; they have become copy cats of programs created and successfully sustained by the likes of AT Sill University. This is the era of the information age. I share with you one of Dr. Null's programs. To appreciate what education in the year 2050 will be, please watch the PBS Frontline documentary on AI.

I politely must correct you, again there are brick and mortar universities and there are universities, which are hybrid. The credential from both are accepted by established institutions, including Harvard, Oxford, the University of London, and others. Both types of universities have to undergo accreditation, if not they usually have to close.

I have been using Dr. Nulls products for almost 2 decades and was introduced to his approaches to health by my lady love, an epidemiologist, with 5 years of Peace Corp and other health work in Africa.

The Gary Null Show - PLAGUE OF CORRUPTION: The case against our federal health agencies and its handling of COVID19 pandemic.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10447
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post30 Apr 2020

There are many valid and interesting discussions to be had about American culture and its problematic system of healthcare, and the fringe reactions to it, but I am concerned that it does not have a direction connection to BKism and to indulge in them is to bury other more directly related conversations here.

My primary concern relating to BKs/ex-BKs on such matters is that having had a tendency to indulge ourselves into something largely false, falsified and unrealistic, we have a tendency to be attracted to other interests similarly not grounded in the reality of our every day lives, as an equivalent form of escapism. I've noticed this within myself, and other ex-BKs who get into stuff like alien/UFO conspiracies.

A little bit of salt in your porridge makes it taste better, and learning to double someone's background by weighing up what their critics have to say about them is a good habit to develop. Do I think all Quackwatch or Sourcewatch websites are funded by and involve in a great Big Pharma conspiracy? No.

I also note how you slightly misrepresent my statement, I was speaking generally about these types of individuals within the USA and their tendencies to use diploma mill style qualifications but I think Quackwatch fairly and objectively deconstructs Null's educational background.

Again, I think we can draw parallels with our attraction to BKism and it's self-proclaimed status as a University, and self-promoted expertise without any proper peer review of accreditation; and see a need to accept some grounded caution in our acceptance of such claims.

I cannot comment on his products. Supplements are supplements. For the most part, it is a multi-billion dollar industry that produce expensive but highly nutritious urine that is then put to waste (shame it was not recycle back to the fields).

I really want to keep discussion related to BKism but in the US it strikes me that a combination of too much expendable wealth, a fear of overly expensive healthcare, and an appalling, denatured food industry, has led Americans to be exploited in such matters from the Snake Oil days, right uptodate.

The primary cure the USA needs is a universal, socialised healthcare system that is big government empowered to wrestle the pharmacy companies to the ground, and probably free further education in specialist subjects such as medicine with practitioners bound to serve society, not exploit them. Like in Cuba.

But, all that is off topic for here.

BTW, did you know Prakash Chandra Ramdhan from Georgetown, Guyana? Apparently he has just died. Cause of death not stated.
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1796
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post01 May 2020

ex-l,

I am broadly in alignment with your viewpoint on this matter. I tried to relate it back to BKism in earlier posts, and the more recent ones they are not mentioned but the idea of my recent ones is similar. That is, how do we think about or approach claims to ascertain their veracity and their purpose.
    Just because something is said, is it really true?
    Is it completely true or a bit of a distortion of the truth?
    Even if completely true in itself, is it the whole truth?
    Are relevant facts, factors, history or other contexts omitted?
    Is there a skewing of the messaging to achieve some agenda other than objective truth - eg make money, political influence, gain celebrity etc?
This discussion is about the Corona Virus identified in 2019 (Covid19) and the way the BK and others use it, as they do every other crisis, to push an agenda. I will try to keep to topic and relevance to the BK and ex-BK experience.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10447
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Corona and/or Krishna: Which Corona?

Post01 May 2020

I tend to think Gupta knows better than most of the true rigours of real science and I'll be the first to criticise the problems with the medical/pharmaceutical world (the first being, who pays for what science, and what science is not done that should be done because it goes against their interest), however, we have an equally big problem at the other end of the scale with the pedlers of "Woo" ... unsubstantiated and over exaggerated health claims from alternative fields outside of the science game.

There is an old saying, and I will deliberately and specifically repeat it in its original unpolitically correct form, as it was told to me by a Black New Yorker ...
"You can take the nigger out of the Bronx, but you cannot take the Bronx out of the nigger".

You can stop being a BK (as in going along to the centres and so on), but did you stop being the person who got you into BKism in the first place?

This is my concern.

As BKs/ex-BKs, we have to admit that we had a tendency to swallow a seriously big dose of "Woo" and may be prone to cultic beliefs and social systems.
Pink Panther wrote:This discussion is about the Corona Virus identified in 2019 (Covid19) and the way the BK and others use it, as they do every other crisis, to push an agenda. I will try to keep to topic and relevance to the BK and ex-BK experience.

I could not watch this beyond a few minutes. It is execrably boring and simplistic, and spoken at such a slow rate that I had to give up. However, it is an example of the BKs' response to exploit the current fears.

Is BKism proven to improve immune systems? Are "improved immune systems" proven to protect one from Covid-19?

I also note BK Hansa Raval, who has previously been referred to as "kookie" by the press for claiming BKism can cure cancer, starts with various 'appeal to authority' and 'false dichotomy' fallacies, eg "all researches believe", at which point I switched off. She sounds like a child talking, albeit a child on very heavy drugs.

User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10447
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Corona and/or Krishna: Which Corona?

Post01 May 2020

Jayanti Kirpalani wrote:There are things I go through that are uncomfortable, but there are lessons to learn from these, so I can come to the understanding of what the benevolence is. You mentioned that people having the possibility of time about thinking more deeply what is going on. I see this as the benevolence of Covid 19 as giving us this opportunity.

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 532
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: Corona and/or Krishna: Which Corona?

Post01 May 2020

Just a very quick response, PLEASE DO NOT EVER, USE THE N-WORD, with respect to me. First, it is an insult to humanity. Then it is an insult to me and my ancestors. In countries, such as Australia, where apartheid is accepted and practiced it seems fine to use the N-word. It's unacceptable to call any black using the N-word or any one for that matter. I am never here to create dis-unity in your group. I commend you and Pink for the work you have been doing. If you call a black person, Brother or Sister, especially in Brooklyn or the Bronx the N-word, he or she will react with great force against your person.

I have attended many of Gary's workshops and have been interviewed by him personally for one of his shows aired on PBS. The business about aliens, I do not get into the conspiracies about beings in other dimensions. Beings in other dimensions are part of my life and in my DNA. Apart from Indian heritage, in my blood and DNA is the heritage of the Dogon people of Mali. Their belief system, the Dogon is not Woo. The Dogon have taught astronomy to mainstream astronomy. The BK top brass seemed very uneasy about the active presence of North African mysticism in my being. They also seemed uncomfortable with my heritage and I have no regrets they asked me to leave. Woo is the raw material for some of the greatest scientific discoveries.


Ask Raymond Damadian, who developed the first magnetic resonance imaging scan machine from discarded electronic equipment picked from garbage on the dumps of Brooklyn. Before 1976 or 1977, it seemed impossible that science and technology could develop a body scanner from nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. Around that time, I asked senior BKs about such possibilities and they dismissed it as Maya or Woo, or free-association. But, I will always be grateful to BKs :| :| :D for lighting the path for me as I made the initial steps on the spiritual path. Don' t call me by the N-word; I am a damn West Indian, a West Indian American.

Errol knows the Brother from the Canal Polder region, it is one of the most agricultural rich regions of Guyana and part of Region 3. Errol was the Regional Veterinary Officer in charge of Region 3, the West Demerara Essequibo Islands, which includes the Bonasika region. The West Demerara district is the region where Errol was born and grew up; he was one of the first in that region to become a BK. When I returned to Guyana in 1986, following his studies in the US, he and one of his elder Brothers, a pathologist established a joint practice in the Region 3; Walcott Medi-Vet Health Service. The street where his parents' property is located has been renamed Walcott Street to honor his Father and his family. Since he was busy with his practice, he could not visit the BK center in Georgetown often. Kamude and senior Sisters in the Caribbean presented false reports to Janki, that he was not supporting the service in Guyana. On his return to the USA in 1990, he was invited by Hansa to the center in San Antonio. However, in less than two weeks he was asked to leave the center by Janki through Hansa. The reason for him being asked to leave was the false report to Janki that he was not active in service during his 4 plus years stint as a veterinary officer in Guyana.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10447
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post01 May 2020

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:I am a damn West Indian, a West Indian American.

If we are going to argue over anachronistic terms, what's a "West Indian American"? A Gujerati American? In contrast to an "East Indian American" who might be a Bengali America?

Strictly speaking, I was not calling you anything at all but referring to our collective status within the BK system, of being "lower than the lowest of the low", even lower than non-BKs (Shudras according to the old Sakar Murlis). I was using it in the same literary vein as Ono and Lennon did when they referred, compassionately, to the status of women in the world*, and relating that to us. We BK rejects, outcasts or apostates ... the "weak bricks" or "failures" ... we "weak impure souls" or even "traitors" (in their eyes).

Actually, I may be wrong. There are without doubt "niggers" within the BK Bronx (athough they don't use that word, we were them); the slaves, servants (what you might call "house niggers" within the BK system) and untouchables, like the Bhili women they use for hard labour, breaking rocks and building roads, upon Mount Abu.

We are more like the BK Maroons.

To paraphrase a real hero from that time, Ron Dellums,
If you define "niggers" as someone whose lifestyle is defined by others, whose opportunities are defined by others, whose role in society are defined by others, then Good News! You don't have to be black to be a "nigger" in [BK] society. Most of the people in [the BKWSU] are "niggers".

I don't think we should mince words to define things as they are.

* (A phrase taken from Zora Neale Hurston's 1937 novel 'Their Eyes Were Watching God', and it was a Black American from the Bronx who taught me that, non-Americans might need some explanation of what the Bronx was in order to understand the metaphor/).

But, back on topic, please.

User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1796
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post02 May 2020

Is BKism proven to improve immune systems? Are "improved immune systems" proven to protect one from Covid-19?

It is a red herring. You can normally have a healthy immune system that responds to most things but fails to defend you against a particular bug. Maybe on a particular day, because your neighbour’s been noisy or you’ve been worried about something and haven’t slept well for a few days, you've been working long hour, missed meals, you have a temorary drop in yoru immunity and you get sick.

And if you've have long and repeated exposure to those bugs, like health workers might, or you might find in an enclosed space like a crowded bus or workplace, eventually they will outnumber and overwhelm your defences.

Then again, your immune system may be ”too healthy” a kind of sickness in itself - - a particular bug or other stimulus can set off an over-reaction in the auto immune system which damages organs, sometimes permanently, and even killing you! Most auto-immune diseases are that kind. Sepsis is one of the biggest killers in the world. An asylum seeker, an otherwise healthy young man, died from sepsis after getting a scratch on his leg playing football! What subsequently happened was a series of things that, in themselves, were nothing, but together became fatal.

And even if you have a good immune system, you can still unwittingly carry the virus to others when you hug them or touch their door handle or whatever. In that case, getting symptoms and isolating yourself is more of a blessing to the whole community than being an asymptomatic person who unknowingly continues to spread the virus to many people.

Personal health is about protecting yourself, public health measures are about protecting others.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10447
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post02 May 2020

Therefore, in BKspeak, what they really mean by "immunity" is 'faith in the Baba', underlined by a superstition - for which there is plenty contradictory evidence - that it will protect you from everything from a viral infection to the effects of nuclear radiation?

I suppose the obvious response is, if you really have faith in the BK Baba, go and volunteer in your local emergency ward then.

Raval has a series of videos out exploiting the pandemic, there's one on nutrition where she appears to confuse protein, with calories from protein and suggests a diet of lemons alone would provide sufficient protein pushing the vegetarian or plant based line.

They appear to be pushing the line that positive or negative thinking attracts or repels the virus.

Arcane

  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 04 Apr 2020

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post03 May 2020

While the power of thought lies on making own's own life better, aiding in self-introspection and a possible self-empowerment, I doubt if it has any value in dealing/eradicating the Corona situation at all other than medical maneuvering alone in the very first place!!

What's going on?! Are they even doctors preaching all this non-sense?

The emergence of Corona situation might entail a lot of aberrant human behaviourism, we can agree on that, but associating that with what they say, viz. "Baba had said it years before" is a pure manipulation of "the stupid."

My Father keeps on iterating and irritating with all this non-sense. I cannot but keep totally quiet about what he says. Much of the silence that's manifesting from me these days regarding these matters in my family has been in a way lot more than what the BKism has been preaching----> The power of Silence.

Am I doing good, dear ex-I?! Haha!!
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10447
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Corona and/or Krishna? Brahma Kumaris Covid-19 & Coronavirus

Post03 May 2020

Medical Colonel Hansa Raval is a Dr, she was a pathologist in the US Army and one of the first BKs in the USA.

She abandoned her infant child when she left her husband to join the BKWSU, but then had a relationship and, arguably, a false marriage with another male BK, we presume for the sake of a visa; and also made numerous false and denied visa applications for Indian BKs in the USA.

How BKism works to hook otherwise intelligent, professional, mature individuals, is an open question ... it might appeals to ungrounded, unfulfilled egos (sorry, don't know professional terms for it); it might work to hook people on underdeveloped emotional level; I think with their more recent material successes, eg wealth, property and status, I think it appeals on a social level of 'status by association'.

What it does not appear to do is radically transform and improve or reform either their intelligence, or integrity. BKism is largely all just about marketing. What matters most to them is whether something is expedient or not. If there's an angle to use Covid-19 to encourage their followers, or capture new ones, they'll exploit it; primarily as a sign of the End of Times and evidence of a further entropy/decline in the world's "purity" ... when, in fact, the response to it - people's acceptance of lockdowns and so on - is a sign that humanity is evolving to be able to respond in a largely rational manner to such threats.
PreviousNext

Return to Scientific questions for BKs