Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Thank you, humanbeing, for your feedback since it resulted in me pouring out my heart over here, and it is a sort of "mental catarisis" ... in fact, the counsellor I met with my parents in 2011 also told me to write a dairy of all the events I think have effected me - I wrote it then but threw that dairy later since it was too much for me to live with those memories. I got my lessons - I evolved - I let go ... but now I strangely feel nostalgic.


You have not yet replied how you identified my mental illness ... I would be happy to know. Was it a hunch?

ex-l Brother, I want you to help with understand some phases of my life if you can.

Back in 2009, something strange happened to my body. I was feeling very uncomfortable in the presence of Brothers. I used to get 'vaginal discharge'. This was not voluntary ... this was how my body reacted so biologically. I used to feel violated. I developed 'guilt' thinking this indicates my 'lust' towards opposite gender and there was something wrong with me subconsciously. Although I knew very well I was not attracted to everyone of opposite gender, I liked just one guy, he was from my State but this also landed me in guilt, since Baba says we should be committed to him. There were many reasons for my schizophrenia ... I even used to 'feel' (I was not consciously imagining/thinking this those strong feelings occured to me.) that that guy was met with an accident/someone shot him with a pistol/someone hit him hard on his head with a log. It was in the last 1 month ... after I resigned and came home about 10 days later, I suddenly felt that guy had been killed and started crying hysterically. My relatives advised me to consult a doctor, then I called my friend in office and asked about his whereabouts. She told me he is OK - nothing bad had happened to him and gave his number to me .. I called him and felt convinced and relieved.

Later again in 2016 april, I felt something bad was going to my husband, someone would cause an accident and kill him ... then 3 days later I felt my parents were conspiring to kill me and was admitted in hospital ... now I am OK ... those were very intense feelings that I feared they may take place.

I attend counselling with a psychiatrist he says all repressed feelings and emotions sometimes burst and cause schizophrenia ... I don't live with those fears, i.e. I won't experience them on a daily basis. They come only twice once in 2010 Dec and once in April 2016. When I was hospitalised in 2013, I was perfectly alright ... only my parents felt I needed help and admitted me against my choice and without my consent.

I argued with the doctor there that it was a violation of human rights to admit me in their hospital without my approval but he said parents/family members/doctors can decide if it is an emergency and can go ahead ... believe me it was not an emergency then ... in 2010 Jan also convinced of his safety and felt OK once after I talked to that guy in office ... I was normal so my parents agreed when I said I don't need any psychiatric treatment, since my fear was proven irrational to me.

But in 2013, nothing weird happend (like crying hysterically or panic attacks) they just felt I had some sleeping disorder and eating disorder and took the decision to admit me.

From my point of view, in my tradition's language, I'd question whether sukshmbindu is actually what the doctor's diagnose ... or just a little too "psychically open", and not fully in control of that.

Recently, ~3 months ago my parents took me to a spiritual healer, he listened to my entire story and expressed the same view as ex-l did ... he said on doing BK mediatation I became "psychically open", and without my conscious awareness was conducting some energies ... as a BK, although I did not do Amrit Vela, I was very accurate in my dharnas and had 100% faith on Baba ...

In those days, once I discussed about 'angel meditation' with a BK, churned a lot about angelic stage and would write dairies then, on the very next 'Avyakt Murli', Baba said to practise 'pharista stage' (angelic stage). Then once, when a BK Sister at retreat centre asked me what swamaan (state that we constantly contemplate and meditate on), I was taking 'combined form' those days and in the very next Avyakt Murli Baba told to practise 'combined stage' ... after I came to my hometown, the BK mother who was a friend of mine asked me on the phone how I was meditating those days? I said I was visualising inverted humanitarian tree in Soul World and in the very next Avyakt Murli Baba told about it ... sometimes I would get intution about a Gyan point and contemplate it, and it would come in the next day Sakar Murli ... this was as very new and puzzling to me. I, personally, feel Baba is a living energy presence.

It's not just about unexplained hunches or coincidences more than that I consider Baba a very pure positive 'sadguru' (teacher) ... Once I couldn't convert my MBA interview call to admission then after Amrit Vela meditation in ORC the Bilaspur Gurgaon BK retreat centre, there was the concept of 'study groups'. BKs would form study groups and churn Murli points and share with each other their churnings, and a Brother told Baba wants us to be "knowledgeful, powerful and successful".. It was very inspiring to me in that phase of my life.

What might have happened to me then, did I become emotionally vulnerable/psychically open ... when and how does it happen? I consider the possibility since I was engrossed in Baba and definitely became connected to him, but maybe my stage was neither powerful nor constant .. it was just flashes and glimpses of connected and I was under spiritual fatigue ... is that a possibility ... or is it something about my unsettled karmic accounts?

I was very spiritual as well as religious from childhood. I was always interested in mediation, Yoga and would like Lord Krishna a lot ... in fact, whenever I prayed to him, all my wishes were fulfilled.

After my 10th, I learned 'SSY' - Siddha Samadhi Yoga. In my intermediate, i.e. 12th standard, a guy had a crush on me and would speak about me sitting in a bench behind me. I too developed an interest and it affected my studies. When I joined engineering in 2 nd year. I developed a crush on a classmate and would find it difficult to concentrate on studies ... that is when I told my Seniors that I wanted to learn meditation. One of them suggested the Brahma Kumaris and I went and took the 7 day course in ~2003 august.

I found it too simple and did not take it seriously but I felt some peaceful there and would visit it occasionally. In 2000, I read a small booklet about pyramid societies and 'anapanasati' meditation and was interested to know about it, but later became busy with studies and couldn't learn about it. In ~2005, I came to know about one of its followers and went to meet him in his offfice. He was a cloth merchant and gave me the phone number of local in charge and I would attend workshops conducted by them locally. I attended about 2 workshops and one meditation session ... I purchased some books and some cds, and would practise mediation and read those books and listen to the experiences of other mediators. They call them 'masters' ..

Even after I went for my job in Gurgaon, I got number of a local master from him. I got the number of a local married master and visited her house. I met a few masters there. I met another married lady and a Brother. We three then met in a garden the next week, discussed spirituality, shared experiences, exchanged phone numbers. I subscribed to their magazine http://www.pssmovement.org/magazines/ for one year.

I attended another workshop by them in Delhi. Patriji, the founder, came to a married lady's house in Delhi and conducted a workshop in a nearby seminar hall. I met him personally with his group of masters in her house and interacted with him. Personally, he clarified a few doubts ... but a later a Brother master adviced me to join 'Sahaj Yoga' and told that the married lady in Delhi also left the Pyramid societies and joined "Sahaj Yoga".

My friendship with that lady continued and once when my mom came to see me in Gurgaon in 2009, we went to her home (she was also from our state and spoke our language 'Telugu'). We all attended a Sahaja Yoga workshop that evening. I skimmed through one Sahaj Yoga book but by then I was deeply into BKs, so I was just trying to understand their approach to meditation ...

In October 2005, when I proposed to that classmate on whom I had a crush, he said he wanted only frienship with me and nothing else ... I was heart broken .. Later in 2006, he dated another girl of my college (and married her after ~2yrs) and this feeling of rejection further crushed me ... but I hold no animosity against him or that girl. In fact, I truly wished and still wish for their happiness ...

In ~2006 August, I was again into bkism along with Pyramid Meditation but later continued in BK and gave up Pyramid Meditation.

So maybe Baba, in a way, filled that void of companion to me in 2003, but more closely from 2006 onwards ... so though I was attracted to some guys in my office it only resulted in 'guilt' of betraying Baba.

Now I came to terms with everything ... Baba has a special place in my life and so does my family and my professional and social ambitions.

In ~2008, I went to a local prison in Gurgaon to teach them RajYoga meditation personally but was not allowed since they said it would only be possible if the official BK organisation endorsed me as their representative.

Nowadays, I explore other forms of meditations. I studied Reiki, Angel Therapy, Hooponopono and, recently, Ramtha and Abraham Hicks.

The journey continues ...

In 2011, I had a chat friend and he later developed throat cancer. He underwent cancer treatment, chemotherapy, and survived. He is follower of 'Art of Living' Shri Shri Ravishankar. His guru told his friend to utter 'Om Namah Shivaya' 5 times in his ear and, miraculously, some count reduced/increased.

We used to discuss spirituality online ... so when I got a hysteric panic attack in 2016 April, there is past experience of threat of life to a dear friend, so I can understand the guilt dynamics of moving on ... but in 2010 Jan hysteria, there was no past experience of threat to life ... I was very 'normal' and used to 'let go' ...

Sukhshm, thank you for your courage, trust and honesty. I also picked up something from your posts but have neen very busy these last weeks to write much. I am glad Human Being and yourself have uncovered and opened up the deeper ”can of worms” behind the posts

One of the best ”other modalities of meditations/philosophies” that I like is medical science. That is, a scientific approach to health and well being. In the period we call ”The Enlightenment” - when reason and science gradually displaced the church as the arbiter of knowledge - the first part of that was the splintering of knowledge into specialist fields. This latest period, the end of the 20th century and early 21st century, we see a big move into cross-specialty cooperation. We need the depth of specialists but we also need the breadth of multidisciplinary approaches to get the ”whole” picture, and to make a person whole.

One of the most effective multidisciplinary endeavours of the last 20 years is in the treatment of schizophrenia, and with the contributions from psychology, psychiatry, neuroscience, microbiology, and more, the condition we call schizophrenia can be successfully treated, or at least managed well.

The only things required are patience (to be a good patient...) to allow the (hopefully up-to-date) clinician to find the right medication and dosage to suit the individual.

I have close connection with people who have gone on this journey of schizophrenia over decades, and I can vouch for the huge difference hitting on that right ”prescription” makes to their lives. One person, an ex-BK, finally found a new medication that he has only once a month. It is in fact a larger dose of a previous daily medication mixed with a few other new compounds plus some separate vitamin therapy. His life was turned around for the better from the first injection.

Part of that journey, which this particular person, went through, can be misdiagnosis (mislabelling) then correcting that error - schizophrenia and bipolar for example were once considered very different things but are now understood to be fairly similar conditions with similar neurochemistry, the difference being ”degree” or ”intensity” of the experience and symptoms.

And there's other things that can be contributing to, causing or coming from, a mild schizophrenia which can get missed once one label is attached as if the problem is solved - things like PTSD, depression ( both part of what happened to this person) anxiety disorders (as happened with another) and more.

Once correct diagnosis and then correct prescription is sorted - or at least not before - one can engage other therapies which are for physical health and psychological insight.

BUT - and its a BIG BUT - one of the least beneficial things for a person experiencing schizophrenia (almost obvious in the name of the condition) is any practice or routine that reinforces dualistic thinking and transcendental states. Consequently, the best things are those that engage the person into integrative, unifying, wholistic modes of being.

So, find the right doctor or clinician, one who is up with the latest on schizophrenia and other common conditions (in Australia I think the statistic is one in four experience a mental health condition at some point in their life) .

Then make an effort to ‘ground” yourself, like earthing an electrical appliance - even literally - do things that are of the earth, of nature, activities that don't have you spinning off into speculations, possibilities and conjectures but which are definite - ”facts’ ( literally ”something done") - things non-intellectual which need no ”proof” other than their enjoyment, whether it be dancing or sport or ceramics or gardening or hiking in mountains...

Do not stir the pool, let it settle. Fewer words are usually better. I must finish now, its been a long day. All the best to you.

In 2011, I went on a stock trading course and my attitude changed. I became more confident and stable but again I was unable to decide my future and was very confused ... this site helped me a lot then.

In 2016 March, a cousin of mine has committed suicide and the doctor told me this fear has morphed into the fear of my parents killing me (that cousin has a broken family and was neglected both in childhood and young age by his parents ... on the contrary, I had a happy childhood and love my life very deeply. Suicide was out of question for me, since I am a fighter, but somehow his death affected me a lot and took the form of fear of homicide conspiracy by my parents. It is highly irrational thought but somehow it occured to me and hence this a clinical illness but that is temporary only not chronic, only extremely alarming situations are triggering its relapse).

We also consulted a homeopathic doctor, who is also a meditation practitioner of some mantra, he says he has intutions and tells the actual root causes. When we met him, he told that I got it through genes ... my grand mother (mom's mother) has hysteria as well as schizophrenia, my mom is mildly bipolar and I inherited it through genes ... he also added intense conflicts in desires lead to schizophrenia.

I no longer play a victim but take responsibility of self and look forward for professional accomplishments ... I have a cousin who has autism and an aunt who has diabetes .. I want to heal them and learnt about Reiki and came across organ regeneration ... I am a solution finder not someone who passively complains and gives up.

Thank you for your feedback.

Then make an effort to ‘ground” yourself, like earthing an electrical appliance - even literally - do things that are of the earth, of nature, activities that don't have you spinning off into speculations, possibilities and conjectures but which are definite - ”facts’ ( literally ”something done") - things non-intellectual which need no ”proof” other than their enjoyment, whether it be dancing or sport or ceramics or gardening or hiking in mountains...

Mother Earth’s Transition by Mother Earth

I think Pink means *really* down to earth ... hands on the earth or clay, feet in the mud down to earth. That's just another 'space cadet' who thinks the world is speaker to her. That's the opposite of what Pink is saying.

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Firstly ... be ready humanbeing (and sukshmbindu), as I am going to write things, and suggest things, in a manner which will crash straight through ordinary Indian values but are not unreasonable, unhealthy or unspiritual in the bigger picture of life. After which I was also tell you what image has been arising in my mind, when I was thinking of you and your experience ... some of which I can empathise with and see parallels in my own life. I am not a guru, not a teacher, not a doctor etc ... I am just another co-traveller or human being walking alone a path which is close to yours, and it's a little difficult to "see people" through the internet, so please allow small inaccuracies.

I must say, I was also going to suggest grounding therapies akin to those Pink mentioned, right down to dance, gardening and ceramics (pottery) but I was also say and address that other great method of grounding oneself ... sex.

Sex, dancing (and child birth) are considered to be the most grounding and having been fortunate enough to have lived in societies where women have liberty and rights and spoken to them about their experiences, one of my strongest disagreements with Brahma Kumarism (and orthodox Hinduism), is their patriarchal fear, condemnation and supression of women's sexuality.

Their supression or denial has nothing to do with spirituality, spiritual growth etc etc and is just backwards - highly cultural (a response to conservative elements) and controlling ... more of which we can discuss later. In my opinion, because of the recent history ... or let's call it "hystoria" (pun) ... they - the Brahma Kumaris in particular - are the VERY LEAST qualified to talk about sex, its place and effects.

It strikes me you are/were a very energetic young woman. What you appear to be telling us is that you were also a very sexual young woman. There is nothing wrong or unnatural with that ... except that you were born in the wrong society to be so!

As I read your posts, I remarked on how similar your experience and representation of it was to the classic era and environment of which psycho-analysis around ... Freud and Jung and the highly patriarchal, highly sexually repressed Viennese Jewish society/Victorian society of the early 19th Century.

The whole story of you/women being diagnosed with "hysteria" and schizophrenia - and your culturally indoctrinated responses to your sexual feelings - is almost word for word out of that age of history.

Women back then were also being hospitalised in the West when all they really needed was to be loved physically; held (affection), penetrated, and good orgasms.

I will admit I don't know how much British Victorian influences in this area still have upon your class in India (I am a little out of date now but I know all ages of history/humanity still exist together in India at the same time), but I can say categorically how much at first Islamic and then British Victorian/Protestant sentiments complicated India's attitude towards sex and sexuality from a historical point of view ... on top of it's own past ... to *really* screw it up.

And it's a long way from being unentangled. Indeed, it may only be in the last decade that the discussion to unentangle it has started (and, no human being, the West is not perfect or not problematic either ... but it has different problems which are also contaminating India).

It may have just been that you were very sexual, as in had a strong libido (which does not need to be only expressed in sex) but due to your gender and culture - living in India - it went off like a rocket and exploded in on itself.

If you had been born in the West, probably you would have just gone off and had lots of fun for a few years (sex, love and relationships) and then gotten over it, then carried on life as normal. Found yourself and moved on. It's what people do, and it does not kill them either physically or spiritually. All *quasi-spirituality* like BKism does - quasi means "apparently but not really" - is bottles it up until it becomes explosive, or kills (chokes to death) that part of you.

And it makes people sick.

There are a lot of very sick and choked Brahma Kumaris.

Anyway, we can come back to explore that element later if it interests and resonated with you. There's a movie I'd like to recommend to you ... A Dangerous Method - and it's only a movie, a conversation starter and not enlightenment ... although it is based on the real lives of Freud and Jung, and a similar young woman treated for "hysteria".

I'd be interested in your response to it.

What I was seeing in my mind was how we grow up. When we are conceived, we develop entirely within our mother's body. As we grow up, we develop almost entirely - unless there is some trauma - within our mother's and then our family's "aura" ... see it like an invisible, protective egg shell around you.

Once we get to a certain age, we start to develop our own aura/egg shell (the image of an egg shaped aura is *not* unique or original to the BKs) venture outside of our mother's/family's aura, returning to it when we feel the need for comfort and to help understand our experiences. Eventually, in most cases and to various extents, we separate and go our own way. That is a description of a near universal experience. It's a spiritualistic view of what some psychologist call "attachment theory" and which others are apply to cultic experiences.

Our success in the world in dependent on how well prepared our "egg shell", and the stuff inside it, is. Some have strong shells, others weak sheel, others broken or damaged shells ... almost none of us are 'perfectly cooked' inside. Traumas, rejections, over attachments and premature ejections from the family can have damaging effects some of which some people never recover from.

And so, the parts of your life and experience I would be most interested in are your foundations, the early part of your life (you say you were "well loved" and happy, were you over protected?) and the period of your first ejection or separation from your family, e.g. when you first went to live in the girls hostel or with this BK crone.

Perhaps you might discuss them?

The first separation is a classic example or period during which cult recruitment happens. Many cults target individuals at that age or experience.

Yes, I am not surprised, that having a strong libido - let's worth with that possibility/theory - and not being able to express it, that you were able to channel it to have strong "experiences of Baba" ... whether Baba is a real spirit being, or a psychic construction of the BKs. It does not matter which. I would say *both* are going on.

The other element though, that we cannot dismiss, is your own wish fulfilment or projection. That is not to say that *all* of your/religious experience was projection ... I would disagree with that view ... but we would have to accept to starting with 3 possibilities; projection, separate spirit being/s, and the group psychic construction (or egregore) and work out which was which.

Then, to that equation, we have to add ... or rather *remove* ... the BK/religious encouragement of 'confirmational bias'. That tendency you were expressing when you were sure your intuitions and what appeared in the Murlis had some kind of supernatural significance. That is very common not only within BKism, not only within other religions but also in borderline personality disorders.

I am absolutely sure that when you wrote that there was nothing wrong with when you were hospitalised the second (?) time, it was true. The problem was likely to be as much as with your family. This is also common ... the healthy one within the family is the one that is "punished" by the family/medical services for breaking out or rejecting the family illness.

Now, you have written that there were faults in the design of your family's "egg" or that one healer saw this as being "genetic" ... perhaps tendencies to sensitivity have been passed down (genetically), or perhaps it has just been mentally passed down (mimetically). It really doesn't matter which as they would both account to the same end effect. As children, especially I would say as a daughter to mother, we pick up and tune ourselves to issues and mental conditions ... *even* if they are not spoken about.

I've seen terrible cases of perfectly mentally healthy daughters negatively effected by their mother's mental illness, so much so that it ought to be considered a crime.

I am not suggesting that in your case necessarily - although you mention a previous serious trauma/tendencies within the family - but I would include experiences of sex and sexuality being passed on within that equation.

For example, in some cases the mother's fears, the mother's negative experiences ... whatever ... are passed on down to the daughters in a damaging way whereas a mother or a female society have healthy positive experiences passes down different images and responses.

I think a lot of that has happened within Brahma Kumarism ... which we have analysed on this forum ... which is another reason why I don't think they and their unresolved experiences would be very helpful for you and your growth and experiences. I think you're very largely on your own to work things out yourself and would not fit in or be healthy stuck within their box.

BTW, are you an only child? Do you have non-BK friends and non-spiritualistic interests?

I will write about my family tomorrow ... I have an elder Sister and I do have non-bk friends.

I forgot to mention about my experiences with Christian prayer or rather Jesus ... tomorrow will write about that also.

Thank you for your feedback.

can i ask a personal question.. why did u not marry.. were u cheated on when in a relationship.. are u commitment phobic.. or u never felt the physical & emotional needs.. or do u have a broken heart.. its never too late.. have an open heart or rather 'mind' in ur case..

I had a few relationships ... I guess I actually prefer to be on my own. It has certainly allow me to do other things, and live a different sort of life, that I could not have done if I had a partner or family to think of.

I was one of the generation who were encouraged to give up their education, professional life and social standing to surrender everything to the Brahma Kumaris because of Destruction etc. Consequently, I was separated from my natural peers and equals.

Of course, I cannot blame every decision I made following BKism on them ... but socially and economically it greatly handicapped me in the marriage game.

It took me a long time to separate from BKism as the doubt of Destruction still hung over my head.

I don't have any regrets in that department ... except that I should have more sex and/or relationships, and lived a normal life during my 20s/30s.

I should have left exploring all the religious/spiritual stuff until after I had fulfilled the worldly life ... which is what I'd really like to encourage you to do.

It makes for a very complicated personality where parts of you might be very advanced, but the basic foundations required for family life; wealth, security, real life skills, family etc are missing.

There are times in life when you should, or would be best advised, to do things. If you miss those windows of opportunity, they are gone forever.

I think BKism deliberately did that to us to keep us enslaved to it. And that it kind of how I would describe the BKs I see who are left from my generation. They've got nothing to fall back on, nowhere else, or no one else to go to ... so they keep on BKing because it's familiar, it sort of fulfills their ego, because they get the odd free meal etc.

A few have married other ex-BKs ... I hope some ex-BKs in India find similar companionship. As one gets older, one needs it. We are designed to be in tribal/family units, e.g. males complementing females, young complementing old.

I started digging deeper and recollect suffering from anorexia for a short period though ... I also developed social anxiety disorder. I was in a 'damsel in distress' position ... all because I smelt that others were having wrong opinions on me, and i felt the echos everywhere..

Luckily, I was rescued by posts on this site.

Thanks and also thanks for certifying me sane ... that means a lot to me.

How much of that do you think is *your* stuff ... and how much did you pick up from, say, your mother? How much of it was *her* stuff.

Mental states can be contageous. If a child grows up thinking neurotic is normal, then it will be neurotic until shown a different example.

i am a quick learner intellectually and also i take personal goals and achieve them.. its all my stuff.. i pick from everyone and utilise all my resources to acheive my goals.. but i acknowledge everyone in my path and remain grateful for their contribution.. i see myself as a merchant i not only buy my stuff but i also pay my price.. in a way very royal merchant or rather deal maker of high conscience and precision..

I meant, how much of the neuroses were your mother/family, i.e. you said she was a bit manic depressive or schizoid.

I remember another BK described himself as feeling like a "psychic vacuum cleaner" ... sucking up other people's rubbish and ending up with it inside him!

BTW, short answer to your marriage question above ... If you don't catch a good partner at the right time, all that are left are the crazy ones. .