Who is to blame?

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john morgan

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Who is to blame?

Post08 Oct 2007

I am an ex-BK of over 30 years and have recently found this forum. It saddens me that so many people have, like me, left the Brahma Kumaris.

The human psyche is a complex thing, for me at any rate. When I first went to Tennyson Road in London my life was a complete mess.

I studied for around 4 very stormy but very beneficial years.

Around two years ago I requested Murli's, previous to that I sent a stamped addressed envelope and there was no problem but now, possibly because of the activities on this website, my request was refused. There is more to this paragraph than I am saying so please take it with a pinch of salt.

I'd like to talk just a little about my experience and understanding of what Gyan is. It may not be that accurate but I hope it will be helpful to someone. The Knowledge is an expression of a great mind, a master creator. This person knows about things that few if any in the world know about. It is very high spiritual knowledge, perhaps the highest. It teaches how to think elevated thoughts and perform very good action. I love this knowledge and the people, but what made me leave? Me! As I said earlier I was in a mess when my study began.

Yes, I was angry with the BKs. Here was something I loved, that I wanted to progress in but it was becoming so painful that I was unable to continue. Who created this pain? It was me but unknowingly! Since I have winkled out some negative traits and complexes in my thought behaviour and subconscious. For example, the whiny archetypal Saboteur who stopped my effort making because it thought that what I was trying to do was too difficult. Also much guilt and doubt which seem to be energy turned back on itself - very painful! Self knowledge has for me been hard to come by, as are people whose entire lives are spent serving others and being interested in me.

In the physical world force can be a good thing, perspiration comes from hard physical work but in the mental world being very gentle and controlling one's attention is necessary. This lesson is taking me a lifetime to learn. It is through the thoughts that we think that we create our world. I create my world through emerging the positive and leaving the negative alone. My cup is always half full to overflowing. Thought should be a positive creative process. When the negative comes alarm bells ring!

Yes, I can see that there is no exit strategy for people leaving the BKs. I can also see that some people have what they perceive at present to be very negative experiences. The close proximity to very evolved beings can both ecstatic and painful as deep negativity is overcome. We are learning to face ourselves, often this is not easy. To be self-reliant is essential, hard at first but as time passes one would not have it any other way.

I do not criticise the Brahma Kumaris or others. Why? My reason is that I am responsible for my life and all that happens in it. Of course I could fault find, blame, curse or swear but what good will those thoughts or activities do me? If I am at fault is blaming others honest? Absolute honesty is a very rare commodity. To choose one's thoughts is rare, most notice thoughts at a point some way past the actual creation process. When I am unaware of much of my thought creation, how can I really be honest or judge aright?

So for me the bottom line is that I am my best friend or worst enemy.

Whether or not one belongs to an organisation one must create one's own life oneself. I have found that the BK training and experiences that came my way have stood the test of time in helping me do this.

Constructive criticism has its time and place and can be a very good thing. :roll:

Kindest regards to all,

John Morgan
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ex-l

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Post08 Oct 2007

Welcome aboard Captain Morgan! I am sorry to hear they cut your Murli supply. But I think this forum is less than two years old and so I am afraid, by your own philosophy, there is no one else to blame.

30 years + would take you back to the 1976 incident. Can you tell us anything about it? How do you square all the historical revisionism with your high vision
    ... and who are the "very evolved beings", by the way?
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abrahma kumar

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Post08 Oct 2007

Thanks for the post john morgan ... and welcome to the forum.
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john

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Re: Who is to blame?

Post09 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:Around two years ago I requested Murli's, previous to that I sent a stamped addressed envelope and there was no problem but now, possibly because of the activities on this website, my request was refused. There is more to this paragraph than I am saying so please take it with a pinch of salt.

Dear John

Welcome. I don't understand at all how you could be saying yourself, or any other BKs, are being stopped getting Murlis because of this site. Exactly what makes you say that? You say you were getting Murlis, was that via post or email? I believe now, the Murlis are obtained over the internet, so it could be the postal service has been cut down for 'normal' households.
It teaches how to think elevated thoughts and perform very good action. I love this knowledge and the people, but what made me leave? Me!

Hopefully through this site you will be able to re-examine those doubts about yourself, being the reason for leaving BKs. Maybe part of the reason, but the whole reason?
My reason is that I am responsible for my life and all that happens in it.

To a degree, but no man is an island. If somebody comes up to you and stabs you, is that still your fault?
Of course I could fault find, blame, curse or swear but what good will those thoughts or activities do me?

I agree to a point, if all somebody ever does is complain and blame but has no intention to do anything about it, then it can be a stagnant point in their life. But if it puts into perspective the truth of what has gone on, it could allow a person to move on accepting the right proportion of blame to themselves and free them from a negative 'anchor'.

BKSWU has evolved over time, whether that is good or bad I am not sure. So at which point were they telling the 'truth'? It cannot all be true. Brahmababa cannot be the Chariot of Shiva AND God Father Brahma.

Yes, BKSWU do make mistakes, yet they want that to be covered up and all the blame proportioned to others.
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bkdimok

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Re: Who is to blame?

Post09 Oct 2007

john wrote:Brahmababa cannot be the Chariot of Shiva AND God Father Brahma.

Somebody have other opinion?
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john morgan

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Post09 Oct 2007

Its nice to have such kind and witty responses, I feel as if I have been piped onboard - thanks :)

I think it was around 1974 that I ceased regular contact.

As regards evolved beings, all Sisters that I came in contact with continually felt that Shiva Baba was very close to them. I had what I regard as a full blown vision of the Subtle Region along with ecstatic experience. I was told that this was not under the Sisters control.

The Sister that I saw in subtle form was questioned very closely by me and I was assured that she was in deep remembrance feeling that Shiva Baba was very close. Such strength is extraordinary as is such purity, piety, love, happiness etc. God as Father with a supreme inheritance that by far surpasses that of worldly fathers not just said but actually attained is another way of expressing it. This is my concept of an evolved being. To help others to attain the same is the activity of an evolved being.

As regards historical revisionism, I think I know what you mean. This date for that date etc?

The way I see Gyan is like a myth, it is spiritual knowledge not worldly knowledge. Its intent is to help people (souls). Take for example the 5,000 year cycle, repeating identically. One can see this as an intellectual fact or one can experience it seeing everything happening as it did, a choreographed drama before ones very eyes. Take Destruction, as one's sins (negativity) are burnt away the intellect becomes more powerful. The ability to choose one's thoughts grows.

Eyes, nose, ears and mouth become cleaner. Rubbish doesn't stay in the mind, it is concentrated on the Confluence Age and the activity of that age. Thoughts about only a gold container being able to hold the milk of the lioness have meaning and so the picture grows as only Gyani's know how. If, literally, Destruction is to be at a set date and time BapDada might say, those people who get on youtube and pronounce Destruction to scare people into God knows what I don't understand.

When I say myth I do not mean a little myth, I mean a LIVE MYTH. So to me historical inaccuracies are hysterical - totally irrelevant. What matters is to remind myself that everything is in me - the whole Cycle! It is important not to think beyond one's strength but to live properly and responsibly creating good influences that will not undermine attainment of full achievement. It may be that those who take most from Madhuban are those who initially think they have taken nothing.

The Sisters (when I was around) all believed that The Cycle is literally a 5,000 year cycle. To have consciousness of light is a wonderful experience. It seems as if we are fixed in matter but as things become subtler, and what is more subtle than light? A fluidity which is reality and supreme good fortune is experienced. We are all mesmerized by this physical world and its influences and see ourselves but dimly.

What helps me a lot is Baba as mercy. He has everything to give but who can take it? Perhaps his mercy extends to letting me not be mesmerized like a rabbit in headlights re a literal 5,000 years, instead what if everything the whole cycle is in me and available? Surely his mercy would extend further than saying this is what you are but you can experience only part of it yourself. In a nutshell, forget historical inaccuracies and remember the prize. What is the prize? Merciful eyes!

Certainly things in Gyan have changed a lot since I was involved, I recall the first Sister going to Jamaica. Dadi Gulzar coming for the first time to London. Everything was so small. Now with vast numbers of people actively involved administration must be nightmarish.
People come with their problems mud is thrown at spotless angels. the saint can see the sinner but the sinner cannot see the saint. Mercy, mercy for ourselves and mercy for others.

Its late.

Kindest regards,

John Morgan
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john

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Post09 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:When I say myth I do not mean a little myth I mean a LIVE MYTH. So to me historical inaccuracies are hysterical - totally irrelevant.

Apart from one very important detail.

It could prove that God Father Shiva does NOT incarnate into Dadi Gulzar as BKSWU would have you believe. Nothing is irrelevant, drama is accurate :lol:
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bkdimok

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Post09 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:The saint can see the sinner but the sinner cannot see the saint.

IMHO it is one part of the problem. The other one is that saints are too high to see or pay attention to small material problems inside or outside BK world.

When I was in the mainstream there was no time to think of something different from remembrance or service. Now with help of this site and souls of this forum I can see that some of senior instruments are to be returned back to the level of ordinary BKs in order to solve their problems and to understand their point of view. But also ordinary BKs or XBKs should understand that senior instruments also have their causes to act in such a way. And it is not nessesary that this causes are Maya or inpurity or sins.

This is impure world now and it dictates his conditions. Sometimes they have to choose the best from worse. Nevertheless, it is time now to put everything to the right place and start preparations for constructing Golden Age in a practical way.

With regards, Shankar
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john

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Post09 Oct 2007

Also, what about all the splinter groups, that are in India? PBKs, Vishnu Party, PPBKs and so on.

Whilst we in the West are sold the idea of BKs as one vision, one world, unity; splinter groups have been around in India from as early as the 1970's.
People come with their problems mud is thrown at spotless angels.

Do your spotless angels know of the persecution of these splinter groups by BKs?
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ex-l

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Post09 Oct 2007

Yes. Welcome to the 'Barely Keeping Open World Spiritual University' [BKOWSU], you are welcome to join the Undercover Dissident Wing, the Hedonist (Reformed) Wing, the Fallen Angel Wing, the Alternative Comedy Wing, the Nomad Wing, the Absolutely Mad Wing, the Eat the Rich Anti-Capitalist Wing, the Spurned Lovers Wing and, of course, the most dangerous of them all ... the Historical Revisionists Wing and Ethics Committee of Reforming BKs.

We have come a long way. But first, please, what is your rememberance of the the 1976 End of the World predictions? How was it played out? We have heard about it from other Westerners. Many left back then.

If you left in 1974, that means that you must have come into Gyan in 1970. Were you given taught the 7 Day Course by Indians?

Tell us what you meant by "a pinch of salt". The impressions, recollections and history individuals like you carry are important to completing the full picture of the BKWSU. I think that you will be quite surprised to discover how the organization has changed. Especially regarding its commercialization.

With respect, I will have to oppose your dismissal of the Historical and Murli revisionism. We are only part of our way through the work. For me it raises big questions about ethics of a leadership who are quite willing to pump out a false history and one has to wonder what exactly has been covered up. As John points out, the most central elements of that are the medium and message. I would say the balance of probability is swinging towards BapDada not being God in Gulzar.

Just as we were never told about the 1976 date for Destruction, I am sure you were not told about the 1950 date for Destruction ... and today, newcomers are not being told about the mid-80s to Year 2000 date for Destruction. The same MO still rules. You will also find here individuals trying to make sense of why a God soul would say such things and suggestions that those dates were significant but on a metaphorical level.
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john morgan

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Post09 Oct 2007

There is a lot of pain here. Religion tries to uplift those practicing it. Each person has faith or doubt. Faith is positive, doubt is negative. It is very important to find something that one can have faith in.

I like this poem, it is by James Allen. His book "As a man thinketh" is a classic (amongst humans) :wink:
    Mind is the master power that moulds and makes
    And man is mind and ever more he takes
    The tool of thought and shaping what he wills
    Brings forth a thousand joys a thousand ills.
    Man thinks in secret and it comes to pass
    The environment is his looking glass.
It affirms us as the masters of our destiny. The thought of Buddha Christ or a Himalayan yogi retiring from the world to concentrate on who said what to who or who did what to who or what happened many years ago could be the stuff of cartoons.

Perhaps if I walked into a centre now I wouldn't like it. If it did not work for me now, I would walk out again and forget it. There is more useful culture in yoghurt than the culture of blame or criticism for its own sake.

Say someone decides it is not worth the time and effort involved in helping me. It doesn't matter. Why give someone else your power? Take it back! When an extension is painful why extend? Sometimes the ability to forget is more important than the ability to remember.

I think that this forum is a good thing and am surprised at the extent of it ... Those who leave the BK life have considerable challenges and the input of those who have previously faced similar situations can help. Perhaps the BKs or Janki Foundation should support this site or part of it. Definitely the part devoted to alleviating the pain of leaving could be developed. Perhaps a condition of this support could be that personal attacks cease and that all people leaving Raja Yoga be referred here if in pain or psychological discomfort. Whilst the site could not do what Raja Yoga failed to do a good debriefing programme seems to me both responsible and necessary. I wonder what others think.

Kind regards,

John Morgan
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tete

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Post09 Oct 2007

John Morgan,

Spoken like a true leader:
John Morgan wrote:Why give someone else your power? Take it back!

Yes, we intend to! Those spiritual leaders inspired us to hold firm, uncover the truth, however painful it may seem, labor is painful but ultimately beautiful. Those spiritual leaders had been waiting for change for years (just as others have here), and finally led their people.
Perhaps the BKs or Janki Foundation should support this site or part of it."

Well, I don't know about the others, but I for one would have thought that someone who is the "Delta Woman", having the most stable mind on the planet, as declared in 'Texas' by scientists would have come to her fallen flocks aid long ago. Texas again. It must be all the scientific research by those darn scientists ...
Perhaps a condition of this support could be that personal attacks cease

By personal attacks, do you mean showing the original documents, or discussions about some of the not so nice aspects of control/abuse within the organisation and having discussions on news articles in the main media? I think that is called "FREE SPEECH"! I don't know that we have such a wand that possesses the power to take those basic human rights away or can magically get members to surrender such rights. It must only be faceless, humble spiritual people that fight for justice and are willing to die for their people's rights.

Say, do you remember John Kane?
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ex-l

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Post09 Oct 2007

john morgan wrote:There is a lot of pain here ... I wonder what others think.

Don't let me spoil things for you, and seriously, welcome to the deep end too. At least join our cause to "liberate The Knowledge". Do you think the BKWSU classes you as a "BK Contact Soul"?

I think that you would have to be careful not to adopt a typically patronizing attitude normal of too many BKs. I think that you are doing a typically BK thing of turning responsibility back around onto the victims or dissidents and away from the mothership.

These are things that a certain class of BKs appear to be unofficially tutored in doing although they are common across other new agey schools. The "They", the organization, shirks all responsibility, any wrong doing, any malfeasance. To ignore these, I also think that you have to have been quite successfully conditioned! Perhaps you wish to protect fond memories of your own or your own personal social investment into it?

We take upon ourselves ideas, theories from any number of esoteric sources. To suggest that any of those sources were not also engaged in human politicking, discussion of ethics, historical review etc is not a mature view. It is a conditioned response, one that successful defends those in power.

To diminutize, to attempt to diminish all the issues and all the evidence that are arising here to the neat little BK boxes called "blame", "criticism" or "personal attacks" is what we are fighting against. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have such self-belief that nothing could possibly be wrong with one's self, one has never done anything wrong and one's business operation is without cause of valid criticism? It is the BKs or Janki Foundation that needs our support, not the other way around. What on earth can they offer us ... except our birthright to the original unedited Knowledge and the Truth of what we got involved with?

In case you have not noticed, some BK is spending 1,000s of Dollars attempting to shut us down right now. I think 'tete' is trying to make the point that it is Hansa Raval in Texas. The leadership has been shown to considerably falsify history over a period of decades and re-write Murlis. There clearly appears to be a centralized policy beating up and suppressing PBKs. There are a good scatter of BK suicide victims all around the globe, and a persistent denial of the damage to families that BKWSU practise does.

Are these all acceptable? How big are such issues and how necessary is it to put a stop them, in comparison to putting a stop our whinging?
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john morgan

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Post09 Oct 2007

Wowee! There is a lot here for me to consider.

In the meantime, I do remember John Kane ... why?

Regards to all,

John Morgan
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arjun

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Post09 Oct 2007

John Morgan wrote:I think it was around 1974 that I ceased regular contact.

Dear Brother Morgan,

Omshanti and welcome to the forum. You said that you ceased regular contact with BKs around 1974. So, does that mean that the BK service at your place (I suppose UK) began much earlier than that. Could you give some details of when and how the BK service began in UK and how you got disenchanted with them in 1974 itself because for most of the post-1969 BKs, it was a comparatively pure phase of BKWSU when the service had just began to expand and there was little or no commercialization of knowledge?

Today, I was reading the latest edition of the Gyanamrit magazine published by the BKs in Hindi in which all the articles are tributes by BKs to Dadi Prakashmani. In her article, Dadi Janaki writes that she was sent for foreign service by Dadi and Didi in 1974 and that Dadi Prakashmani visited them in 1977. During those four years Dadi Janaki did not visit Madhuban.

So, taking into account Dadi Janaki's above mentioned article, did you leave the company of BKs before her arrival in UK or after her arrival?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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