Yogi108

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yogi108

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Suicidal Tendencies

Post09 Jan 2008

All Brothers and Sisters,

I am a practising BK, read all the posts with a lot of interest and have a few things to say. I am not one of those typical BKs who fall for the Sisters sweet talk and the Yagya's Manmats, as they say. I have gotten into trouble because of what I stood for, but I did not fight with anyone nor leave the Gyan.

Let me say a few things here ... in a very short span of time, Drama provided me with some quick lessons as to how the BK senior Sisters work and that includes some very famous names in the Yagya, more specifically in the USA.

Now what do we do once we learn the mechanisms of what works and what doesn't ... come on folks, I have now mastered the act of boxing from outside the ring ... I am in Gyan along with my family (ie. Wife and two growing kids).

I am not at all justifying what they do is right or wrong in here ... but what I have realised is that if we fight the system, its going to be futile and at the end there will only be frustration and depression. I do not know, probably we can do a vote of sorts here ...

How many ex-BKs have a problem with BapDada?

All I am seeing is that they have a lot of issues/problems with Senior Sisters/Dadi's and senior Brothers ... if that is the case box from outside the ring ...

I do feel strongly that the Yagya should respond to all your queries and pressing issues but are the BKs a structured organisation ... let's give them good wishes at least, some of the younger senior Sisters change the way things work ... Also senior Brothers especially like Brian and so on are working on the same but they are also fighting a losing battle ...

I just want to tell you of one incident. Jagdish Chnader in his final few meetings with BapDada once, in a mikes off discussion, had asked BapDada,"how is glorification going to happen when two senior Sisters living in the same city wouldnt even drink water when offered by the other?". BapDada replied, "Are you running this Yagya? do not you know who is responsible for this? Why are you breaking your head about what happens to senior Sisters" etc ... cannot we all read something in between those lines from BapDada ... ?

Om Shanti Brothers and Sisters,

This is my first post and would welcome responses.
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arjun

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Post09 Jan 2008

Dear yogi108,

Omshanti and welcome to the forum. Your first post was quite revealing. It is heartening to know that you wish to change the system while living within it. That requires a lot of courage. Congratulations!!! :)

As far as I know XBKs don't have issues to settle just about the style of functioning of senior Sisters, but also about various aspects of knowledge like the 5,000 years cycle, concept of Destruction, practice of celibacy, family life, etc.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post09 Jan 2008

yogi108 wrote:some of the younger senior Sisters change the way things work ... Also senior Brothers especially like Brian and so on are working on the same but they are also fighting a losing battle ...

Yes, welcome to the Court of Virata yogi108, and thank you for your news from the Court of Dhritarashtra :wink:. My respect for both the reasonableness of your first post and the courage to join us. I understand that we have created quite a stir within some cloisters of the BKWSU.

Its good to hear that there are allies within and you can assure them by undying support. it would be good if Brian bit the bullet and came around to explain himself and document what he is up to instead of having his ass kicked by both sides. I was very inspired by his comments about how Greenpeace, outside of the corporations, assisted him, within them, and saw an immediate correlation between Greenpeace's activists and what we are doing.

I have problems with BapDada, I think some of us do on a theological level; mostly to do all the failed predictions of Destruction and the general vagueness. Yes, partly to do with asking why he sustains the leadership's obvious nonsense.

Funnily enough, I don't have a problem with the leadership on a personal basis. I just don't think that the public ones are that interesting or that respectable and hope one day to met the genuine scholars, mystics, hearts amongst them. I do not know if you have made it to the History forum; of course, for me the historical and Murli revisionism stinks. I am disgusted that generations of us were lied to by these people and some definitely abused, yet they still allow themselves to be worshipped.

My advice is that those that wish to reform the BKWSU are dealing with addicts on two levels. Firstly, addicted to the power/status/relative comforts, whether it is "their owned center" or Gyan Sarovar; secondly, addicted to the culture and Bhakti they have brought into BK. Of course change is uncomfortable, as was scene when BapDada attempted to move the center-in-charges around from center to center. Imagine challenging the leadership over their version of BK!

How to deal with addicts? The first stage is always to stop feeding their addiction.

They say you cant address an alcoholic's core issues until you remove the alcohol. May therapists wont see them until they stop drinking. I think the same applies to the leadership. I do believe that Brian probably bled all his goodwill into
the BKWSU but my feeling is that he was useful ... and they listen to him ... only because he brought them what they wanted. This relates to the power/status issues. The leadership are very happy to accept the "window dressing" the West brings (professionalism, showmanship), and I dare say the money whether directly from Whites or via Indian emmigrants.

I think for most of us we have seen too many good Sisters, Brians and Mikes pass through the BKWSU and spit or fall out the backside afterwards. My advice to them would be not to try, to remove themselves and their support and go and build their own one. Am I wrong to see the dynamics of the BKWSU too much like a dysfunctional and abusive family where the parents, whether outright abusive or complicit in the abuse, are all powerful and yet unaccountable to the children?

Its interesting to correlate some of this with other discussion we are having about Lekhraj Kirpalani. Perhaps half of the problem is that the outfit still smells too much of him and he puts in too much to the B + D equation ... all the stuff about royalty, armies, palaces, famous people etc. I know the whole PBK thing is heresy to BK but I think we have something to learn from them too.

What is the chance of putting Virendra Dev Dixit on a central stage with BapDada or the BKWSU in order to iron out those differences?
Sri Krsna wrote:"O Prince of the Bharata race! Make peace with the wise, brave and righteous Pandavas.

Peace alone brings happiness to friends, relations and the whole world. He who does not act according to the wise instructions of his friends meets with ... Destruction ... and sorrow"

May be Destruction is really only for them?
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yogi108

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RE:Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post09 Jan 2008

Thanks for both the responses ... I like the sarcasm court of Virat and the court of D..shasta ...

do not want to contest what you have to say but I will just add by saying that there is a lot of unsaid and unspoken things in the Yagya and not many things are demonstrated as well ... I can only say I have found many good things through the Brahmakumaris ... I am not looking to see when Destruction will happen, or how much to contribute to the center, or really worry about Mrs. Blair and Dadi Janki ...

All I am saying is my experience with BapDada has been great and if we have to look for all the inconsistencies in everything then I am sure we can find muh more than what the dear members of this forum have unearthed ... I have a few questions;
    1. The purpose of why we went to the BKs?
    2. By unearthing so many documents/proofs/evidences are we really putting our energy to good use?
    3. What help is it going to do if we dissuade some faithful students off the BKs by warning and telling them all these great discoveries?
    4. Aren't we confusing them unnecessarily?
Well, I am just thinking if we can only move this towards a genuinely positive forum where some folks can really contribute in terms of solutions than bringing forth more issues/problems.

This is a from the heart post ... so, if this does hurt anyones sentiments then I apologise.
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ex-l

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Re: RE:Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post09 Jan 2008

yogi108 wrote:Thanks for both the responses ... I like the sarcasm court of Virat and the Court of Dhritarashtra

Sarcasm? ... I am a believer!!! Apparently I am also the forum's obsessive psychopath and so if you can weather this first storm and stick around, you will be home, safe and dry. It would hurt so much. its all based on good. Just sit back and relax while it happens. There is a topic in 'The Commonroom' on Why did you join the BKWSU?, you might like to join in the meanwhile.

To answer your other questions, I would say this;

We are not confusing people here, we are "unconfusing people".
    The confusion has been set by leadership of the BKWSU, including Lekhraj Kirpalani, and amplified by genuine seekers and followers who have taken their confusion as absolute truth. 'Unconfusion' is a necessary step in regaining one's people from illusion and other individuals that use it to control and exploit one ... even if in the best of intentions.
Well, neither you nor the BKWSU are "putting your energy to good use by unearthing original materials". There is no "we".

Thankfully a few others, and I, are committed to divulging the truth for the world, both BK and not, to see (thank you very much folks). The BKWSU has and is covering up their existence and re-writing them to change their meaning and appearances, Murlis included. It was all new to me before I joined this forum. You are talking like a usurper without actually having contributed anything.
    Good use? It is fantastic, noble, empowering use of energy. The very foundations of spirituality and God consciousness based on truth rather than PR. And, of course, it is in the defence and care of others so that they might not suffer.
It goes much further than to the faithful 'followers' of the Brahma Kumaris.
    We seek to liberate them from their "follower" status and make them into self-managed leaders who can lead others out of servitude into a new world. We reach out to VIPs, academics, organizations such as the United Nations, the general public and media, and especially the friends and family of BKs that have been hurt or left behind.

    Perhaps it might dissuade them for trusting and believing in those that have deluded and misled others before them, perhaps even exploited their followers ... but that is surely a good thing and God's wish? To my knowledge, God has never actual spoken against us.
Time is short, Destruction could be any minute.
Well, I am just thinking if we can only move this towards a genuinely positive forum

Again, who is "we"? Are you going to offer us support?

How do you define "genuinely positive"? I am not being disrespectful here but I think the whole concept of this forum and website are hugely positive? And it looks like we are having some effect on the organization. My fear would be that the organization would define "genuinely positive" as being in their interest rather than the rest of the worlds.

What do you suggest we do? I think our main concern is a reliable supply of Murlis and an open channel to the organization so that important questions that are asked here can be answered by them.

Can you help us there?
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yogi108

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Re:Yogi108

Post10 Jan 2008

Om Shanti

It looks like I have created quite a stir in here by posting some pro-bk posts ... Hey, listen, I first of all want to say that I ain't here to influence what you are trying to achieve in here. All I am trying to do is to participate, understand, share some personal experiences for people to read ... I am not here to defend what the BKs do nor trying to see how I can stop a few things that are being said.

Having said all these things I feel a little fairness is what is due to the organization let me make a few points to this effect:
    1. You might want to compare BKWSU to the rest of spiritual organizations including the new-age spiritual organisations sprung up off late.
    2. Can all of you who have left the practice say that you do not miss the wonderful times that you have all had during Amrit Vela, Bhattis, BapDada meetings, Dadis tying Rakhi etc. for that sake even the Murli's
    3. What about so many good natured souls that have been practicing Raj Yoga for so many years and quite content and have transformed themselves? Are you questioning their intelligence and calling them all "From the Court of Dhritarashtra"?
    4. If you noticed I have now stopped using the word "WE".
I used it because I personally think
    " Vision is about success, rising above the immediacy of pain, inclusion and being a part of the bigger picture".
Again want to re-inforce I am not here representing the BKs but just as an observer to what I have been reading from the various posts.

I request you to respond unemotionally and just try to see where I am coming from.

I was asked this question, "Can I help?". I would answer it as I am not here to help anyone as many of you are trying to "Un-confuse" everyone in the Court of Dhritarashtra.

With lots of hope and good wishes that I could be a part of some constructive discussions.
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arjun

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Post10 Jan 2008

yogi108 asked:

1. The purpose of why we went to the BKs?
    To meet God and to change our lives.
2. By unearthing so many documents/proofs/evidences are we really putting our energy to good use?
    Definitely. Unearthing evidences is better than destroying them. Those who are unearthing proofs are at least putting their mental and physical faculties to good use, while those who are destroying evidences are misusing both these faculties.
3. What help is it going to do if we dissuade some faithful students off the BKs by warning and telling them all these great discoveries?
    BKs can decide for themselves whether they wish to go through these evidences or not and they are free to be influenced by the comments on these proofs.
4. Aren't we confusing them unnecessarily?
    For those who are very new to BKWSU, these evidences may appear confusing, but for an insider or experienced ex-BK, these proofs may mean a lot.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Re:Yogi108

Post10 Jan 2008

yogi108 wrote:It looks like I have created quite a stir in here by posting some pro-BK posts ...

Not at all.

Your post was not particularly "pro-BK" and neither of us were not being "anti-BK", so please, no one has lost their cool here.

It was the presumption with which you entered the conversation, and the subtle but perhaps patronizing suggestions that you make, e.g. what we have done is not positive, that we are being emotional whilst we are being entirely unemotional. I am afraid we have been round the ring with BKs coming on in just that fashion before. We are just down to earth and business-like. Welcome. Sit down. Have a cup of tea. Let's sort the world's problems out.

Just out of interest,
    a) what is Brian Bacon up to that is so positive? For us all the money-making cross-over stuff is probably what we are most critical of.
    b) why cannot forum readers receive copies of the Murlis?
Yes, absolutely, I am not just questioning their intelligence; on the basis of the evidence, I am questioning their integrity and competence too.

But, mostly, we are attempting to raise support for a duty of care programme and an independent Ombudsperson service to take care of any abuses arising.
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yogi108

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Yogi108

Post10 Jan 2008

Thanks for a wonderful post, ex-l.

I appreciate the fact that you might have encountered BKs in the past who have entered in a similar fashion. Let me tell you I have had one bitter experience on the Brian Bacon money making biz ... There is an organization called TIE ( the Indus entrepreuner's based out of Silicon valley) which had a session with Deepak Chopra ...

Here was an enthusiastic BK, very early years in the BK fold, where he thought everything comes free, including Brian. I spoke to many good contacts within TIE for a slot for Brian to give a sneak-preview of SML, and then call them all over to the center for a detailed SML course ... The sister-in-charge got all excited at the prospect of all the Silicon Valley entrepreneurs in the center ... ( she must have started counting dollars!!!).

But then the news that it would be chargeable for them was a dampener ... Brian's flight, hotel expenses and other stuff ... (I asked the Sister but wouldn't Brian stay at the center!!!)

Anyway, it did not take off ... so, I do know how it all works. Having said all that, am i upset with Brian? NO ...

What has he done positive? For one, open my eyes about the Bhakthi in Gyan re: Swimming with the Sharks. Attempted to awaken traditional BKs ... many lectures in Madhuban. Statements like, "Do you know your purpose? Just because DJ or BapDada tells you to do something, are you going to do it?" I have never heard such plain talk from other BKs. Apparently he does get in to trouble on multiple occasions, guess he has the personality to get away with it ...

Frankly, he is not liked by many in the Yagya but then he keeps going at it.

I understand the commercial aspects of it but then he is selling his capabilities here and expects to get compensated for the same. It is his job. For me, he is like one guy who seems to make sense in the entire jungle!!! I almost sound like his mouthpiece!!!

Your suggestions on Exit Policy/Ombudsman and Duty of Care are all very relevant and should be welcome by the BKWSU but then, are they going to do it with so much BK bashing in this forum .. I guess no organization would do it.

I am saying that why at all so many BKs should leave, is a question I want to address here. Please do see my Post on "Who is to blame?" There are always two sides of a coin ... I have witnessed many scenes in my short journey and felt that it is equally the student's fault when it comes to reasons for quitting/getting banished from the kingdom etc. You might disagree but let us discuss this thread in detail if you have some time.

I wanted to end this particular post to say I am here in this forum to post whatever my experiences with the BKs and continue to read other posts to see how much can I learn in the process.

Yogi
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bansy

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Post10 Jan 2008

Welcome to the forum yogi108.

It is all about searching for truth, and thus God (the ultimate symbol of truth for most of us I expect).

If God's words are represented in the form of words, i,e Murlis, and the original unadulterated unedited versions of God's words were made available to you, would you like that or would yoube satisfied with having a version spoken to you by another impure BK? Would you withhold these original Murlis from your own lokik wife and children ?

I am not so sure about what what other members intentions are, but to get to the basic root of The Tree. Some are happy to swing on the branches though, and there's nothing wrong with that as each person has their role to play.
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sparkal

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welcome

Post10 Jan 2008

Welcome, your input is a breath of fresh air. It makes the forum more real to have someone talk from your perspective.

Indeed, why are "we" here? It could be that this whole episode could have been avoided, or at least tamed, had certain Seniors sat down and explained certain home truths to some of us, thus eradicating certain confusions and the resulting feelings. Some of which may seem negative, and may well be.

That is partly why we are here, to express our SELVES in an environment where no one is clamped down on, unless it is really needed. Something which BKWSU may not be dealing with, though I cannot speak for the present, but BKWSU is not an environment where people are free to express. It is forbidden in fact. And so people start asking as to what they may be hiding, if there is a lack of transparency. It may be that "we" don't have the right to ask, but we are anyway.

People feel put down and left out, not because it is all nothing, but because of what they experienced. What they see. The potential to do something amazing.

It may well be that everything is going to be OK and we live happy ever after, but at the moment, some within BKWSU have played a very cagey game and they may well be dancing to BapDada's tune, but that is of no use to those here who want to know/feel they are entitled to know, certain things.

Faith in BapDada? I have reasons to say yes but others may not, and that is where we are. I think absolutely everything should be questioned. What do we have to fear? If we have faith and not blind faith Bhakti. We have nothing to fear.

We need to know that everything is OK. Silence is not good feedback from BKWSU, it is insulting and ignorant. We are family. They make us feel on the outside and of a lower state of being. There is such a thing as respect.

Consider that we would not be allowed to do this if BapDada did not want it. It may be necessary in order to move things forward at the speed they must move at now.

Brian? I don't think his abilities have been questioned. It is his agenda in relation to finance that is usually in the headlines, and his outside corporate connections. It is not about hating people. Brian represents the corporate sharks, to some, a target to throw things at but it may be what lies beneath; the others he works with/for that are the real target. And quite "right" too, they are behaving in an obscene manner, we are entitled to express our feelings, if we feel the need.

Once again, much of this could be avoided with some transparent explanations and sharing of agendas. But who am I to say. And that is my point.
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ex-l

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Re: Yogi108

Post11 Jan 2008

Well said regarding the fear-driven camped jaws of the BKWSU foot soldiers Sparkal. For as many as there are that are utterly confused and lost in the machine, high on the "drugs" of it all, there are the more learned and experienced ones keeping shut up in case the sharks come and get them for stepping out of line. And up front, you have the statesmen and politicians looking over their shoulders, pretending to lead the flock, watching what we are doing here and adopting their tack in order to ... not reform or protect others ... but maintain their positions within the machine.
yogi108 wrote:Your suggestions on Exit Policy/Ombudsman and Duty of Care are all very relevant and should be welcome by the BKWSU but then, are they going to do it with so much BK bashing in this forum .. I guess no organization would do it.

In the real world, which most of the BKWSU leadership do not live, they would be absolutely, boneheadedly, ignorant and stupid ... NOT to. Like all the proud Emperors before them, they will destroy what they made with their own arrogance.

My fear is, like the Roman Catholic Church to child sex abuse before them, that they are. They can afford to because,
    a) their general, over all income is safe and can be assured by generation after generation of new devotees which they can abuse by spinning the Destruction number and NOT informing them of the truth of the past history for a few years until they leave (most will leave),

    b) the LEADERSHIP'S standard of living is, or is almost, secured by a serious of investments of said donation and comfortable real estate maintained by unpaid serfs.

    c) of course, anything that happens is the victims "own karma". So tough luck if your butt is on the wrong end of the boot.
If you are financially or sexually abused, if you husband or wife leaves you with the children and house, if you screw up your education, family, friendships or career ... tough ... that was YOUR KARMA AND YOUR DECISION according to the leadership.

The big difference is, the unpaid servants are not indoctrinating the leadership with false histories and edited philosophies and holding them in a submissive position through undue influence. Whereas the leadership are and have been for some time. They have it down to a well polished act.

The BK/OLA PAYLOA gravy train I will address elsewhere. But even a businessman of Brian's status would never encourage the BKWSU to ignore such a voice of concern.
yogi108 wrote:But then the news that it would be chargeable for them was a dampener ... Brian's flight, hotel expenses and other stuff ... (I asked the Sister but wouldn't Brian stay at the center!!!)

What was her answer? Who else is on expenses paid, BK business class standard? Brian ... Senior Brothers and Sisters ... who else cuts the grade? Ken O'Donell and Mike George? Bliss? How is it decided?

Why would he want to stay in hotel? Aren't hotels impure places, full of impure vibrations and impure activities? As I am sure he knows.
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yogi108

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Thanks for a wonderful post

Post11 Jan 2008

Thanks for a wonderful post Sparkal.

I agree the silence of the BK leadership is insulting and sometimes could be very frustrating. I have experienced similar things in the BKWSU many times ... One way to respond is to get angry and try fighting your way. The other is to stay away from the conflicts and accept them for what they are ...

Are we all sure that by raising your/my concern that the BK leadership is going to change the way things are ... I have some real issues with the following:
    1. The way the sisters-in-charge are graded for their performance (Money contributed/Souls coming to morning class/Public events)
    2. The owners of whatever property abroad will have names of Senior Sisters in the region. eg. Big Mo in the US accompanied by another Senior Sister in the region
    3. Transparency when it comes to WILLS written by BK students to their own Lokik Families
    4. Statement of Financial Accounts computerised and available for public scrutiny
    5. Rules made that payments to the BKs be only made through banking instruments
    6. Front Organizations such as Oxford leadership, DJ foundation be run by professionals
To Answer ex-l's question on Brian's episode the sister-in-charge was actually embarrassed to explain to me as to why Brian wouldnt stay at the center ...

Subsequently I had written to Brian about conducting SMLs for a few corporate customers of ours in India. I had got some immediate replies as to Bio's etc. but when I asked them what is the money involved I did not get many replies ...

Nowadays Brian also has a secretary who works for him Looks like his business has grown many times ...

END OF THE DAY, "Money Talks everything else Walks" - a famous quote among Madhuban Brothers.

YOGI
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ex-l

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Post12 Jan 2008

Good post. Please add to your list;
    1. Historical revisionism with the BKWSU, the sanctification of individuals through ridiculous hagiographies rather than honest, studied biographies.
    2. Murli revision and the making public of the original archive of both them and the Divine Decrees.
I am not sure that the OLA is a front organization, as such. It would appear to me more that Brian has co-opted the cream of the BKWSU, is leading it around by the nose and is using it as a OLA front! BKs have to pay his airfares and yet whilst he is staying in the hotels (how many stars?) and meeting businessmen, he is touting his own business.

I have seen the contract between him and the BKWSU. Any individuals wanting the "licensed" not given SML course can have it for free, the BKWSU can use it for free to pull punters into their centers ... but if a corporate inquiry comes back - A PAID FOR BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY - it gets handed over to the OLA supremos ... many or most of which are "high level" BKs ... who then get paid for giving it. Correct me if I am wrong.
    The whole lot of them should be chucked out the Yugya.
But it is par for the course. If you look at the real structure of the BKWSU, it is all about private interest and privately owned franchises. Brian is just a little bit more honest and professional than most ... and the incumbent leadership.

Look at Colonel Hansa Raval personally owning the Texas operation; a high status given as she is independently wealthy and can afford to travel, turn up, donate. I presume this is who you are talking about. But I suppose "Baba has arranged it" because she has such a high level or spiritual consciousness and surrender ... then why did not Baba arrange it for her to win the domain dispute against this website? Did Baba want that too?

"Handed over to professional non-BKs and given away to be run as proper charities", may be ... but, let's face it, a big part of the Janki Foundation/GRC was the get the BKWSU a hospital without having to pay for it.

Its all stinky garbage. As you say, "money talks" ... everyone else stays at the local center, washes pots and fixes the property up.
    Since when did God enter into "Strategic Partnerships"? Probably mid-way through the Vatican's sponsorship of the Crusaders invasion of the Holy Land.
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earl

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The 2 waring Sister

Post17 Jan 2008

The 2 BK Sisters at war are in charge of Siri Fort and Karol Bagh, Delhi.

The war has been going on for years.
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