Why do BKs leave their Children?

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Tete

Why do BKs leave their Children?

Post02 May 2006

Members,

Can any of you shed some light as to why BK's leave their children? Why is this encouraged? Can any of you relay any stories of some that have left their children?

Regards,

Tete
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bansy

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Post02 May 2006

Tete,
As far as I know, I don't think BKs are actually encouraged to leave their children, but to learn and have a detached relationship with them, as with all members of their family. And an unwise BK who does leave their children would have just created a huge negative karmic account. Most BKs I have met are encouraged for their entire family to all be BKs as that is to follow the example of Brahma Baba. There are even BKs who have children :shock: and thus the youth retreats.
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arjun

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Post05 May 2006

Omshanti.
Sister Tete asked,

"Can any of you shed some light as to why BK's leave their children? Why is this encouraged? Can any of you relay any stories of some that have left their children?"

I agree with Sister Bansy that BKs (as well as PBKs) encourage family life. But of late renouncement of children must have become prevalent among many BKs due to the lack of spiritual mother and Father in the BK family. As long as Brahma Baba and Mama were alive, they used to vigorously support household life. But after they left their bodies, the BK family assumed the form of an Institution more than a family. With the sprouting of BK centers managed by virgin BK Sisters, the general message that went to the BKs in general and the general public in particular was that the BK path is a path of renouncement.

As regards the Murlis, the only part which supports leaving the children is where Baba says that the BKs whose children do not wish to lead a pure/celibate life and wish to get married should be left to fend for themselves. There is reference in the Murlis about Brahma Baba Himself leaving his son when he decided not to follow the footsteps of Brahma Baba. That was quoted only to make BKs self dependant, detached from the bodily relationships, but not to make them sanyasis (monks). That was quoted also for the possible reason that non-BK children getting married may create impure vibrations in the house leading to obstacles in the effort-making life of the BK parents. In many cases renouncement of children by the BK parents happen only when the karmic accounts between the BK parents and the non-BK children are very difficult to settle.

In the Advanced Knowledge being narrated by ShivBaba to the PBKs it has been told that the souls belonging to the deity religion will have a joint family or united family even in this last birth, when compared to the souls of other religions who would prefer nuclear families. This can be possible only when there is a virtue of purity and tolerance in such souls.

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun
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atma

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Post10 May 2006

What purpose would it serve to abandon children family or friends. This is not the path of the sanyasi, this is the household path.

It is the same thing I have found to be with working in the outside world many BK's wanting to abandon there jobs so they can simply do meditation etc.

In my humble opinion this is not the optimum thing to do.

Baba has said this is to be easy Raja Yoga.

If it is not then we are doing something wrong.

atma
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ex-l

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Post11 May 2006

atma wrote:What purpose would it serve to abandon children family or friends. In my humble opinion this is not the optimum thing to do. Baba has said this is to be easy Raja Yoga. If it is not then we are doing something wrong.

To be honest, just because the BKWSU or " Baba " says something, it does really mean anything ... what we have discovered is that what they say changes over time and the " sayings of Baba that you refer to are only short transcripts taken from a period of 5 years that have been re-cycled and are being re-edited.

What purpose would it serve? Well, imagine your whole family thought you were nuts to join Raja Yoga, wanted their meat cooked and served on the table, smoked cigarettes, liked to watch football and your husband demanded his nuptial rights daily ... what purpose would it serve to stay with them?

Widen that circle, to your old friends or work colleagues who want you to come out to the bars, listen to their drunken stories about their latest sexual conquests or favourite television programmes ... what purpose would it serve to stay with them? And remember you have to be up for 3.30 a.m. to wash and dress to get to the centre for 4 a.m. meditation!

As regards children, beyond the point of maturity what responsibility does a parent have towards them? If the child wants to run around wild, have affairs, get drunk and fall over like most kids in the West ... what purpose would it serve to staying with them and how would it help your world or self saving meditation to have them in the house? Best just chuck them out, giving them a soft landing if you feel generous.

Now, I write those as an ex-BK. To this extend, I empathise with the BK philosophy. BK life and " ordinary life " - to whit I guess we are speaking about the privileged and squandered wealth of the Western World - are utterly incompatible. Contradictory. " Storks and Swans ", to quote another Murli point. The weaker BK position will lose 99 times out of 100 and so the God or Institution encourages folks to distance themselves from the effects and influences in as many ways as possible.

You have to read or understand what is said within the context within which it is said. In this case, a fairly uneducated, unmodernised, Hindi India of the 50 and 60s and all that it entailed, e.g. Bhakti, sanyasis etc. You can even limit this down even further to the small Sindi community in Pakistan. We fall into the same trap as we do when we fall for the Christian line that the Bible was God's Book for all places and ages.

Personally, I think one of the original weakness of BK-ism is that it did not seek to understand and apply its self to the Western Tradition. And, of course, its " God " did not actually come up against any Western students when the founder was alive. It just wanted to steamroller over the Western Tradition with its Neo-Hinduism Lite [tm], not realising that it was carrying along its own Hindu baggage as well.

" Easy Raja Yoga " [tm] is only relative to " real " or traditional Raja Yoga, e.g. Patanjali's Raja Yoga. Arguably the toughest of yogas.

Again, it is to do with the Hindu / yogic context. If you do not know the context for BK-ism at all, and try to misapply what you have learn, you will become totally lost.

In short though, even though I do not promote BK-ism, I would defend the B.Ks to the point that I do not think that the scare stories and moral panics about cults that abound really apply to the BKs in much depth. Especially when you consider the number involved. And on top of this, I would say that if you want to be a BK, separate yourself as much as you can from non-BKs. If you are not bound by legal or moral responsibilities, leave your family as soon as you can!

Despite it all, I'd much rather have BKs as neighbours and trust them with my children than I would do " ordinary people ".
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Mr Green

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Post11 May 2006

The reality is (as I experienced it) you are encouraged to cut off all ties with your family and to see them only in a sort of sevice manner,

I was given direct instruction by jayanti to cut all ties on all levels with my family as i was 'surrendered'. It really depends how deep you are in the inner circles as to what you are told to do. Those on the periphery who are considered not pukka are told different things.

Janki herself takes great pride in cutting off from her family and boasting about it in her classes ... even though I found out she does see them in private.
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freedom

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Post11 May 2006

Hey, Mr. Green,

I like your honesty. You go right to the point ... and I agree, instructions were given depending on your 'case', I lived with my family and I was not even invited to teach the 7 day course, you know, that did not make me feel like 'Golden Aged' at all.. :lol:
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john

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Post12 May 2006

I think it's about a change in consciousness rather than a change in physical circumstances.

See everyone as a soul rather than the outer costume of the body.
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atma

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Post12 May 2006

ex-l thank you for sharing your experiences if I may share some of my own.

Your comments on living and working with others with eat meat etc. Well in my society North America this seems to be the norm. Oh yes you forgot to mention conversations about there hunting trips and drinking binges. Obviously the only way to completly avoid this is to remove ourselves from society but then this is the Sannyasi way of thinking.

I understand how you feel I use to feel the same way but what I found was I to was a meat eater etc. So if I can change then they might also and if not then one could continue being loving but detached. It doesn't mean that I particpate in the local barbeque etc. My transformation came from knowledge and experience. This is why Baba has come into this world to give us knowledge and then we experience and transform.

The key is Yaad.

atma
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Mr Green

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Post12 May 2006

freedom wrote:Hey, Mr. Green,

I like your honesty. You go right to the point ... and I agree, instructions were given depending on your 'case', I lived with my family and I was not even invited to teach the 7 day course, you know, that did not make me feel Golden Aged' at all.. :lol:

Thanks ... I had my fill of woolly, flowery talk :lol:
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ex-l

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Leaving children

Post13 May 2006

atma wrote:Obviously the only way to completly avoid this is to remove ourselves from society but then this is the sannyasi way of thinking.

atma

Again, I hark back to the context within which the Murlis were spoken. There is a danger as we try to alter or create our own themes and variations on BK life and beliefs, molding it to fit our environment, that we are justify it as true. I personally don't believe that it is as it says it is. What Mr Green says is absolutely true, especially of Westerners where anyone that takes on BK beliefs and lifestyle become an instant alien to their family and the society around them.

One was encouraged entirely to treat one's family and family relationships purely as service, a chance to convert them or show off your new found Brahma Kumari virtues in such as way that they would immediately surrender. The " leaving your children and family " happened on a mental level. As a soul, blood ties meant nothing. Your family and community's values were " devillish " and to be defended against. The example I once gave on xbkchat - which I know to be entirely true - of the Senior Sisters in London telling one woman to have an abortion because a child was bad for Brahmin life, underlines the extent of this.

But, I still would not put the blame on the institution nor would I say that it was wrong. From the point of view of following a spiritual path, I'd say it was entirely right. If you are really going for it, there is no point carrying the load of distracting mental and physical baggage that a baby or family entails. Atma, I think that you are interpreting " Sanyasi " in a very common manner within the BK communities. A kind of poetic, metaphorically, New Agey interpretation. When " Sanyasi " was spoken in the Murlis it meant sanyasi, i.e. leave your family NEVER to go back, never to sleep in the same place twice, not to own anything perhaps even clothes and to subject your body to all sorts of mortification. THAT is the Sanyasi path, NOT just living in rented accommodation in Kilburn instead of with your mummy!

In India there was, and is, a huge cultural investment in the sanyasis being the only true spiritual seekers and their path being the only way to pursue spirituality. BK-ism is a counter point to that which says, you can keep your job and chose where you live, a fair degree of worldly comforts, still experience some sort of psychicism and allegedly benefit your karma.

The problem between BKs and their family arise not just because the BK becomes a BK but because the BK becomes a mystic, starts steeping themselves is mysticism, mysticism starts to become their norm and ambition ... and mysticism is so alien to their shootin', huntin' and fishin' family. Further, I think this is the problem here with the original author - and most non-BK family members - is that they have little to no awareness of spiritual traditions, particularly Eastern / Indian spiritual traditions and without that putting BK-ism into context is impossible.

Generally, it is also fair to say that individuals have little awareness of their own beliefs and value systems as also being a crazy, dangerous and damaging cult, e.g. the SUV driving, Coca Colonial, shoot 'em up, Western Materialist Tradition within which infantile, soppy sentimentalism or equally blind faith in medieval Middle Eastern religions are a strange balance point to the violence and domination it practices.
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proy

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Post14 May 2006

ex-l wrote:The problem between BKs and their family arise not just because the BK becomes a BK but because the BK becomes a mystic, starts steeping themselves is mysticism, mysticism starts to become their norm and ambition ... and mysticism is so alien to their shootin', huntin' and fishin' family.

This happened to me very many years before I became a BK. It is to do with "mysticism", as you say. My family thought I was weird when I became a vegetarian, when I practised meditation, when I put my spiritual path before making money. All this happened long before I even heard of the BKs (I followed other paths or my own conscience).It was not that I left my family, just that we did not feel like family anymore. I still love them and keep in touch with them, but we may as well be on different planets. I have always felt my real family are folks like the people on this site, who put spiritual values high on their agenda. (I have yet to think up my definition of spiritual)

My experience with the BKs is that I am actively and enthusiastically encouraged to put a lot of positive energy into strengthening my family life, but then I am married so it may be different for single people. I have heard that more service is expected from single people.

Proy
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arjun

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Post26 Aug 2006

Tete wrote:Can any of you shed some light as to why BK's leave their children? Why is this encouraged? Can any of you relay any stories of some that have left their children?

Here is a small extract of the revised Sakar Murli dated 23.06.06, pg.3 published by the BKs, which talks about the Godly direction regarding family life. "Many say – Should we take care of the Yagya or the family? Baba says – You should take very good care of your family."

The same Murli goes on to tell how the sanyasis collect money and establish estates (jagir). ShivBaba says in the above Murli that He does not come to establish estates. But the post-1969 state of BK empire does not actually tally with the above directions. With the kinds of estates that the BKs have developed worldwide, one is left to ponder whether the sanyasis that Baba criticizes in the Murlis exist in our Brahmin world only?

There are many souls who neglect their families to serve these so-called "Sanyasis" among the Brahmin family. While their children yearn for simple necessities, the Sanyasis indulge in luxuries with the money obtained from the gullible householders.

But taking good care of the family does not mean that one should become attached to it. According to Baba one should serve the family as a trustee. Attachment resulting from taking care of the family should not lead to the neglect of Self-service (i.e. making spiritual efforts) or Godly service. There should be a balance between the lokik and aloukik life.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Post26 Aug 2006

arjun wrote:There are many souls who neglect their families to serve these so-called "Sanyasis" among the Brahmin family. While their children yearn for simple necessities, the Sanyasis indulge in luxuries with the money obtained from the gullible householders.

I take your general point here Arjun.

The PBK view is that all of God Shiv's 'apparent criticisms' of others is not projected outside of the Yugya upon others but actually they relate to what is going in 'inside' of the Yugya. So when God Shiv criticises the gurus and pundits, he is not mean the lokik Sanyasis, he is talking about the BK gurus and pundits; when God Shiv criticises the Muslims or Ghaznavi, he is not talking about the lokik or historical characters, he is talking about certain BK invaders.
    Perhaps if this was better taught, the BKWSU would not have to hide away and edit out the Murlis.
But let us not appear merely bitter or jealous about the success of those that control the BKWSU, let us examine what is going on in detail.

Can you substantiate your claims or give some simple examples please? What the gullible householders are doing?

Figures would be useful. Does India keep the financial records of charities on public view? Is the BKWSU registered as a charity in India or just some bogus private education institution?

Someone needs to do some research on this out there.
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arjun

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Post26 Aug 2006

Can you substaniate your claims or give some simple examples please? What the gullible householders are doing?

I think I have already mentioned in some other threads how the BKs openly seek either cash or kind. I have not visited the BK centers of foreign countries, but in a developing country like India where the divide between rich and poor is widening at a fast rate and where most of the people either belong to the lower / middle economic classes and where there millions living below the poverty line, any BK center in India (especially those in the cities) have such facilities/luxuries which is not common in the homes of the lower / middle classes. How can such luxuries be arranged in newly set-up centers without putting the gullible BKs to hardships?

As far as my personal experience is concerned I have seen many BK centers being set up in the Indian cities, for which most of the luxuries were arranged at the beginning of the establishment of such centers. A BK teacher of a particular center amassed luxuries to such extent that BKs were forced to circulate a pamphlet enumerating the violations of Shrimat by that BK teacher and her lokik Sister, who was also in charge of a center in the same city. Persons who visited her personal room in the center were awestruck at the facitities / luxuries available in that room. I also remember an incident when some senior Dadis including Dadi Prakashmani and Dadi Gulzar were to visit our local BK center. The well off BKs of that center were openly asked by the teachers to give gifts of silver / gold to Dadis during their visit and those gullible followers did present the Dadis with golden gifts.

And it is to appease such wealthy / influential/important BKs that the Dadis at Madhuban have a stock of golden/silver rings to be presented to them when they call upon these Dadis during their visits to Madhuban. Many of the members of this forum must have received such golden/silver rings / rakhis during their visits to Madhuban. Has ShivBaba told anywhere in the Murlis that BKs should be given golden rings / gifts during their visits to Madhuban? When Baba does not differentiate between souls while giving the Godly knowledge, then why is discrimination done when it comes to giving gifts to BKs at Madhuban? All these things are the inventions of the human gurus within the Brahmin family.

In contrast, the PBKs are given only Godly literature as gift after completion of their bhatti. During almost a decade of my experience as a PBK I have hardly seen Baba even giving toli to the PBKs. In none of the hundreds of VCD* of Murli classes Virendra Dev Dixit can be seen giving gifts or toli to anyone. But there would be hardly any function or important BK class without the usual toli / gift ceremonies.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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