Hello from daughter of BK

I can follow and hope stuff like Paul writes comes true. I am just interested in what timeframes we are talking about until it does.

That's the thing. It's already happened. It's just that everyone is so busy working on old structures and getting rid of old belief systems they're just not realising it! (Its all such hard work is not it? And most of grew up with the motto of having to work hard to get anywhere in life being forced into us that its still part of us ... how much more is there still within that will not allow us to change?)

Maybe mature youngsters such as Alanna realise it already which is why they've chosen not to subscribe to an old way of thinking but would rather live in the moment. In the Now.That's where the power lies. And God is power, eh? How often did we get told, "You're so powerful?" or "Take power through Yoga", etc. So whilst her Dad will still continue on, happy within the folds of the BKWSO, others have taken their own power and are working it.

Belief systems and much else are in our minds. The soul is made of light, therefore our mind is too. Often the mental constructs that we have created seem much more solid than light. To have a constructive mental framework that works for us is essential. Perhaps Gyan provides this numberwise. Sharing better frameworks than those that Gyan provides would be good service. If such frameworks exist then Gyan as we know it is redundant. The dropping of one framework and picking up another is hard for many because it seems that the frameworks are more solid than they actually are, it is in this environment of solidity that the effort one is to make is understood and then made. Everything is much more fluid than it seems, to recognise that fluidity may take the place of solidity seems to me realistic. Good self control is essential in a fluid world. Gyan is at home and teaches in a very fluid world, a world of light consciousness.

Hello Alanna

Welcome to the forum.

Do you in any way feel to there is much lost in your relationships with your parents ? I hope not, it seems you have taken your life in your own strides and discover what is really you and what there is about life around you. I somehow feel you're a bit like Maria in movie Sound of Music who finds her way in life not inside but outside the confines of the convent where she grew up, but at the same time when she leaves the convent she continues to have the love of those who protected and helped her during the time. And when Maria falls in love and confesses to not understanding this human love, the Sister Superior tells her that she has the ability for the love of her husband and also have the love of God.

So you are a lucky person, and hope the experiences you have give you confidence and not regression.

The dropping of one framework and picking up another is hard for many because it seems that the frameworks are more solid than they actually are ...

And the greater the investment into that mental framework, the far greater danger of attachment of it. Once that mental framework starts to express itself in brick, mortar and an investment stream ... what then?

It seems to be part of social entropy that organizations reach a certain point where they start requiring more energy in than they give out ... unless change happens at that point, they can fold and collapse within themselves. One generation burns out, a new one rises out of the ashes. Who is going to take over the trusts and deeds when the old guard die?

We found out a couple of years ago that she always wanted more than two children, but BK put a stop to that. That was a truly heartbreaking revelation.

My goodness. I had never thought of that before. To a woman who wanted and expected to be a mother, that must have been a denial of her being as well as a forced changed from an external influence. Some sociologist, or perhaps mythologist, should come along and examine the relationship between the celibate crones taking the unborn children from fertile mothers or examining the controlling feminine force stealing men from their women. Something we have documented in real time on this forum. (Excuse my poeticism but I am sure you can get where I am coming from. Although we talk of "the feminine" as being creating, there are also many destructive female archetypes).

I am still really interested to hear alanna take on "God" as BapDada, growing up within it all.

Do you in any way feel to there is much lost in your relationships with your parents ?

No, I don't think so - we've always had good times together. If my dad hadn't loosened up then it might have been harder as my Sister and I got older, but he's quite happy now to take part in more lokic activities so we don't miss out.

Some sociologist, or perhaps mythologist, should come along and examine the relationship between the celibate crones taking the unborn children from fertile mothers or examining the controlling feminine force stealing men from their women.

I am intrigued - can you explain a bit more what you mean?

I am still really interested to hear alanna take on "God" as BapDada, growing up within it all.

My understanding (basic, as ever, and without the adult drive to question and critique) was that Shiv Baba's soul spoke through Brahma Baba, then when he left the body either the Shiv soul or both souls came down to speak through Dadi. The Shiv soul was God, but BB 's soul was the prophet soul that also came down as Mohammed, Christ etc. I think I was always a little confused about the difference between BB and Shiva Baba, though, especially in the context of Avyakt (sp?) Murlis.

I am not sure on my dad's will - I'll have to ask him!!

So do you think the Shiva soul is God?

I really don't know. The rational part of me doesn't believe or want to believe in God at all, especially as I feel religion in general has caused so many problems (though that mainly comes from human beings' interpretation of "God", if there is indeed a god, I suppose). But then that leaves me at a bit of a loss and with feelings of guilt in terms of explaining what I saw in Madhuban, the whole existence of the BKs and what my dad believes in. So I just don't think about it - whether God exists or not has no bearing on my life, so I just get on with it.

Its interesting ... and, I agree, no doubt a little bit difficult and awkward. But it is such a big thing to "meet God" in Madhuban ... would you encouraged others to do so and believe in those spirits as God?

Yes, the Yugya has always - historically - been a little confused about the difference between BB and God, so you are not alone there.

Just to untangle a little bit for you, yes, it is claimed that BB was the "Chariot soul" for the Shiva soul but they say he is meant to have stuck around The Cycle for nearly 5,000 years and was in his last birth whereas Mohammed, Jesus etc came down in their first births to act as a Chariot to the founder soul, e.g. Jesus acting as the Chariot for the Christ soul.

Could you accept that perhaps you still have unresolved emotions in this area and are perhaps just a little in denial about it all? I mean, either it has to be God or it is not ...

Could you accept that perhaps you still have unresolved emotions in this area and are perhaps just a little in denial about it all? I mean, either it has to be God or it is not ...

Probably! Easier just not to think about it, I guess, and I am quite happy that way. I wouldn't recommend anyone went to Madhuban to "meet God". No, I certainly don't have anything even approaching that kind of conviction about it.

Einstein wrote, “Mathematics deals exclusively with the relations of concepts to each other without consideration of their relation to experience.”

OK, so God has come or perhaps he has not. Such an invisible world, it can be intellectually understood but can it be experienced or need it even be experienced?

Dadi Gulzar goes somewhere else, Bap Dada comes into her body and speaks the Murli. What an outlandish world this is? From a BK perspective, life is all about becoming like Bap Dada. This incarnating full of power, peace, love, knowledge, is it all just theory or is it a spiritual potential that we can manifest in our own lives and the lives of those around us? To the BK, it is not theory it is experiential. They, including Alanna's dad, consider that it is the best use of their life.

I find it very interesting that Alanna should be the daughter of a BK and not be very clear about who Bap Dada is and what he does in theory. The Knowledge catches one or some of the minds in a family and they consider it very good, for the remainder of the family it is left alone and considerations such as those given above never occur to them. Whilst many of the people living in England watch Coronation Street on the TV there are some that consider the coronation of Narayan to be very significant. This is a world of contrasts.

Note to Alanna. Hello Alanna, I'd like to apologise for speaking as if you are absent, which of course you are not. This is your thread it was just that I found it easier to say what I wished without addressing you personally. I trust that no offence was given and that none has been taken. I continue to read your posts with interest.

Kindest regards,

No probs, John :) I should point out though that I am interested in deeper things than Corrie! God just is not one of them, for the moment at least.

Also, just wanted to clarify for anyone reading that when I said I wouldn't recommend people went to India to "meet God", I did not mean that I would recommend they don't go. Rather that I am not going around urging people to make the journey.

Hello Alanna,

That you are here proves that you have deep interests, your writing indicates that there are many other aspects of your life that confirm better than this reason the content of your last post.

I suspect that if I was to ask people to go to India to meet God they would be much keener to lock me up than they are at present. I have occassionally suggested to people that they visit BK centres as what is there may be of interest. Despite meeting the stars of the BK world such as Dadi Janki or Sister Jayanti, they often see nothing of note. Had "Corrie" been on TV, some of them might have stayed a little longer.

I find it very interesting that Alanna should be the daughter of a BK and not be very clear about who Bap Dada is and what he does in theory.

Yes, without any offence to Alanna, I picked up on that as well and find it interesting. What is the "magic ingredient", or "magic vulnerability" that makes some individual susceptible to BK "Knowledge" and practise and others, even close family under years of influence, not. I do have a small concern though where individuals who do not "get" what is going on recommend it to others just because they experience was OK. I accept, as John says, that 'something' is going although I do not think we entirely know what as yet.

I know what the BKWSU answers would be. I wonder from the point of view of the "real world" if this susceptibility is similar to hypnotic susceptibility which some have and others don't. Anyone who has been to a service event and seen IP or VIPs walking around slightly confused and in a happy daze ... but not landing as BKs ... knows what I mean. I cannot offer any convincingly answer at present. Paul had a good one. May be Alanna or other children are just not useful or necessary enough (yet) for BapDada to reel in. May be they are just kept "on ice" as serviceable demi-BKs or "contact souls" until their spirits are required?

Your answer, 20 words or less, on the back of a postcard to the usual address.

Alanna ... excuse me for pushing ...

but on the scale of 1 to 10, how likely do you think it is that BapDada, or part of BapDada (the possessing spirit rather than the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani), is "The God Father"?

I find it very interesting that Alanna should be the daughter of a BK and not be very clear about who Bap Dada is

The concern is not for Alanna, its her dad's.

... or the center in charge that is allowing him to teach the 7 Days Course (if there is such a thing any more)!

Just to be fair, I wanted to make it clear where I was taking this particular aspect of the conversation. I am interested in nature of "belief" and how it operates to the BK advantage. Not what "beliefs" are, or if they are real, but the mechanism of how we "believe" and why. There is no right or wrong answer to that question and I wonder what her mothers answer would be now? May be nil, so better make that on a "scale of 0 to 10". May be a good question for a poll?

I am sure that there are a whole load of people that do not actually believe that part of BapDada is God going along with the BKWSU, may be even teaching it. It acts as a religion, or religious analogue, and provides the functions that any sect would do within Hinduism. In a way it is slick and modern in comparison and that along is enough. I am Hindu therefore I go to and donate to a temple, the nearest temple. ISKCON (Hare Krishna) benefit tremendously from the Hindi community internationally in this way, being amongst the first Vedantic temples in the West, and I think the Brahma-kumaris play a similar figurehead role for many people. But, of course, they are not Hindu.

Then the question arises of why do we promote something we do not believe in as being true?