Hello from Terry - The Power of Anonymity

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Terry

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Re: Brahma Kumaris Raise Issue of Abuse with BKWSU Leadership

Post11 Jan 2009

This will be my last contribution to this forum.

I have contributed to this topic, as well as a new thread that was begun under "Hullo from Terry". These comments relate to correspondences under both threads. A new thread might be "ex-BK Raises Issue of abuse of ex-BK Forum".

Firstly, some key participants seem to claim ownership of this forum, or of my identity, having changed the descriptor under my user name from Ex BK to BK supporter.

Whether it's the same person or another, and whether by ignorance or choice, some contributors are unable to acknowledge alternative views. They're locked into an "us" and "them" paranoia worthy of George W..

Black & White, no shades or tones. A stark reality to live within.

The correspondences: One day, being outraged is good - a motivator to action, the next day it is an insult.

One day, I am told that I am too close to the BKs, possibly even a spy, then I am asked to report on stuff downunder - be a spy! I replied, "Others are more qualified than me. I was never an insider" and "not enough authority other than 2nd and 3rd hand hearsay in most matters".

The next day I am told that "... we have been doing our homework here. You have been out of the game too long. You really don't know what is going on." That is all I have said from the beginning. I also stated " just to clarify where I stand, "There is no god." Hardly a statement of a BK adherent.

I explain, from a background with more training than most, my opinion, often in response to a question, of what' s been going on - within the heads of the heads, within the head of a yogi, within the head of Lekhraj, and why things evolved the way they did, and responses from the same person alternate between (paraphrasing) " yeah ... go for it" to "don't give us that psycho babble". Let's put the "-babble" suffix at the end of anyone's area of expertise shall we?

I am asked to share what I know of a number of topics, I do so to the best of my abilities, in what I think is plain English. I am challenged about a sexual abuse case with - "All the immediate parties involved, including the Seniors, know who the perpetrators were. What happened? Show us your metal[sister in charge]" I reply saying, "I know little" but share what I know. To this I get from the same person, "I did not ask you for information about the child abuse case. What you wrote is both misleading and 'damage control'.

I am thereby accused of collusion and cover up.

I left the BKs to get away from this kind of madness. I hope the purported aims of this "forum" are returned to, I have not found my experience to be reflective of it.

To ex-l - I have worked out who you are (are all you spooks monitoring this site paying attention?).

Your name is Richard Cranium. And "Tom" is your Brother, Pierce.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahma Kumaris Raise Issue of Abuse with BKWSU Leadership

Post11 Jan 2009

terry wrote:Show us your metal[sister in charge].

Normally, when a certain sort of person writes a [sister in charge] after an apparent typo, it is to put down and belittle the original author. To distract from their credibility or the more serious point they are making. Essentially saying that the author is ignorant and so should be devalued. One often sees it in snobby newspapers.

'Metal' and 'mettle', as in "show us your mettle" are interchangeable. They mean the same thing. Literally metal. Metaphorically, the strength of one's character. In my case, I was making a play on words. A poetic pun, in context, relating to the Brahma Kumari theory of spiritual purity; Gold, Silver, Copper, Iron. All metals. I suspect the more metalphorical [sister in charge] readers got it. (Likewise, re: Islam, you have not grasped what the PBKs are saying even from a Gyani point of view, but I won't hold that against you).

No one ever accused you of "being a spy", terry. That is laughable. It is a public forum.

For me, this melodramatic exit could break down in two ways;

    a) A raw nerve was touched. Conversation was pulled away from the theoretical and moving to issues that were real and personal to Terry, e.g. children, family etc. My feeling is that when an ex-BK or BK comes here it is for another reason than the 'presenting problem'.

    b) When faced with a polite 'put up or shut up', i.e. 'Don't tell us or the concerned BKs what to do, Terry. Show us'. You chose to make a big hand flapping scene, attack me as a distraction and then leave portraying yourself as the abused or offended party surrounded by the scheming insane. Just the result the BKs would have wanted.
My interpretation is much more simple, Mr Ockham ... You did not want to do anything. You were never going to do anything, I suspect. You probably even know what they are like.

You were not going to commit to helping those you were criticizing or demeaning ... for whatever reason.

    What were you here for ... to correct us? :-?
ex-l wrote:The point I was making is, "you show us" or "you help them (the Justice League)". You show us how.

You take one incident ... issue or whatever, research it, present it and see what happens. What about, e.g. the teenage girls having to surrender their dowries so that "the poor" are not dumped on the BKWSU? ... Hansa Raval ... legal action ... etc.

When you joined this forum you told us you were an ex-BK that left in 96. It turned out that you have an ongoing and current involvement with the BKWSU, one you suggest is of a "mutually beneficial" nature. I am guessing now the events you go to would include family retreat type events. I am sorry, but there is a difference and it would have been better to be more clear in the first place, we respect honesty. It strikes me it is not a easy relationship.

Its a shame you chose conflict. It would have been good for others to talk personally about your experience and how you negotiate your personal relationship with a BK.

It would have been far better to have focused on your own issues rather than "to tell us what to do" and belittling such a sensitive topic as the abuse report. We would have, and would, still support you through your own problems;

    how is your child dealing with the BKWSU and the break up they caused ... are they being indoctrinated ... do you have concerns ... etc?
I am sorry to say so directly but mean it compassionately, but on the BK-side, the residual BKWSU mental programming you still have, call it the BK PR version or time-served excuses which you still come out with, is just the same old stuff and distracting yuktis as the BKs trot out themselves. You really have not thought through or grasped the significances either even from the Gyani point of view. I am sorry for the frustration on that but we have heard them all and been through it so many times. Indeed, when we were BKs we used to say the same.

I think here, we would not accept and repeat a statement like, "we (BKs) are beyond Destruction", when it is so obviously not true. Yes, the BKWSU is representing 'Destruction' euphemistically as "transformation" to the general public, and still covering up failed predictions to newcomers, but it remains utterly millenarianist. We would class that as 'deliberate misrepresentation'.

Personally, I also found it interesting that you did not bite at all on the psychic or spiritualistic aspects of the BKWSU. You did not want to pick up at all on the 'channeling of spooks' angle.

BKs are one. BKs can be part of some comfortable and attractive cloister but they are still all part of the whole. If they are pushing the light of the BKs, they are also carrying its shadow and its shadow can be very dark. Murderously so (I refer to the BK Brother that stabbed another BK Brother in a BK center or the suicides). Not all want to accept that. It would appear that the leadership does not wish to recognise it. In a sense, this forum is in and about their shadow. It is made up of "BK-ified souls" that are unafraid of exploring that shadow, either as readers or psychopomps.
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tete

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post11 Jan 2009

Terry,

Thank you for your reply, and my apologies if you did not know as you state until much later (my point was during the legal mess last year ... by then everyone in a centre should have known). Yes, the campaign by Eugene was well done and documented and it involved more than one child and it is my understanding that there are others to. My main concern is to keep the children safe, to keep others safe too (those that chose the life style/religion) and their families.

Yes, even soccer clubs have rules, and that was the whole point of Eugene's efforts, to put in place some protection, but it was not done, and they chose to vilify him rather than do the right thing. His report is extensive and they should have embraced his efforts and looked after the well being of the children.

Here on the forum we have had other complaints in regards to children from several countries and that is simply unacceptable (children must be taken care of and their best interest held as a priority). As far as working with them, if they truly intended to put the protection plan in place for at the very least the children (as a start) I would travel to England to meet with them. I have spent five years of my life volunteering to set up programs for the benefit of children and have even received awards for my efforts (not to boast but to state that I have a background in this area and I am not going at it blindly).

In my experience, in order to fix some thing or make it better one has to first acknowledge a need or a problem. My experience during the legal action was not good, but I am willing to look beyond that but will only meet with legal counsel present (due to the accusations, which were false). You may know the organisation refuses to talk and has simply hired counsel to divert or redirect questions (go ask that branch, this is the UK org, go to the Indian org, go to the other org).

It is not that I think you are a 'spy' but rather that the realities of what I have witnessed are so far from what you think is possible from those within. I will give you one example so that you understand what we are up against and why the documentation seems to be the only way to bring light to, rather than to meet to talk about change. We have had individuals claiming to represent the organisation and its leaders (while the other parties were working full steam ahead against the site) and it only served to delay and dilute our energies with a time sensitive matter at hand. So, a face to face meeting would be good, but it would need to be documented, and with a prior agenda and as stated with counsel.

Since you are saying (or it might be my wishing) that they are willing to listen to concerns (speaking for myself), I will make a list of the concerns I have seen and post them and ask others to submit their concerns. I believe there is a letter in the wiki part of the site that has the beginnings of such a list and will go over and take a look.

All the best to you and yours, and know that I have no ill will towards you.

Love, light and all that other good stuff,

Tete


I will post any Terry replies to you on the Hullo thread. Hopefully you will reconsider leaving as it was not my intention to make you feel hurt, and I have apologized in private via e-mail to you also. Often much is lost in written form, and especially when dealing with sensitive issues.
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joel

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post12 Jan 2009

Who was that Masked Man?
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paulkershaw

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post12 Jan 2009

Excerpt from Dangerous Journeys by Serge Kahili King:
Serge Kahili King wrote:When someone explains something in a way you don't agree with, just remember that he or she is only expressing a set of beliefs. Let them believe what they want and keep your own counsel. Explore their ideas, if you wish but don't feel obliged either to accept theirs or defend your own.
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ex-l

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post12 Jan 2009

joel wrote:Who was that Masked Man?

Call me naive, and slow to react, but I just found out what Richard Cranium meant. Its wordplay for dickhead ...

Given at how directed the attack was on me, I am left suspecting that I, or someone else from this forum, probably challenged or insulted one of their BK friends.

Shame, because if he could get over his hump and cut to point (i.e. not recycle BKWSU partyline as if we were stupid), he would have something valuable to add to this forum.
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Mr Green

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post12 Jan 2009

Hi Terry,

welcome to the forum ... Oh! he's left

In that case, bye Terry.
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admin

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post13 Jan 2009

terry wrote:Firstly, some key participants seem to claim ownership of this forum, or of my identity, having changed the descriptor under my user name from Ex BK to BK supporter.

See: User management.

All 'user ranks', seen under the user name, are set manual by moderators. Terry's affinity to the BKWSU is the same as it was when his account was established as or last set by him, "friends or family of a BK".

Users can and do have their 'rank' changed, removed or create new 'ranks' if they request it within the limits of the available options, forum software and goodwill of any forum Admin.

User 'ranks' (a term which confer no status or title that is merely the name the software gives to this feature), are used to give the public reading this forum some idea of the individual's point of view. They are generally set by the information given by the user in their 'user profile', other users' feedback or the general consensus of those actively involved in the running of the forum.
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alladin

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post14 Jan 2009

Some come, some go, some lose interest , some "take it personally", some do not receive enough attention, some need a break ...

Staying on the Forum is a bit like remaining in the famous "furnace": either you come out as a strong brick or you crack. Natural selection ...

More than strength and apart from many other qualities such as openness, flexibility, humility and the capacity to avoid conflict and animosity and not to fall in the trap of oversensitivity, I think that honesty and the desire for truth are responsible for keeping souls in this space of interaction.

Welcome to those who land, have a nice flight to those who take off, and good luck and thank you to those who contribute!
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ex-l

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post15 Jan 2009

I hope you are still reading this Terry and I apologize in advance if this is going to become too personal for you.

Although you attack me and attempt to cast me or my opinions into a light where they do not belong, portraying us as divided black and white, I am incredibly sympathetic for the position you find yourself in. You are yet another family, and individual, whose life has been torn by the meddling of the Brahma Kumaris. I use the word "meddling" deliberately because until what they teach at their core is proven to be in any way true, it is nothing but socially and individually damaging insanity ... however attractively they shopwindow dress it with new agey or corporate psychobabble.

I appreciate the split must have happened a long time ago but it cannot have been anything less than the experience of both an infidelity and a death in an ordinary partnership ... your other half "dying alive" and yet still being there. In a sense, you must be tied to the corpse of both your love affair and your own BK-ness and made into a born again "Adi-Kumar" (half-brother, a term used for male married BK adherents) against your will. We both know that they will most likely be full of "good wishes" and assurities that you will return the fold before "The End".

I also understand that it may be difficult for you to discuss such personal matters openly in a public forum but I have to believe that they are the most difficult ones for you. I am wondering what advice you could give, and experiences share, to others in a similar situation. But it would take a great honesty.

I am sorry but I do find the BK trademarked "Its their karma®" response to individual misfortunes too harsh. Look at yet another case on the Hello everyone. I am new to this forum topic, where the BKWSU refused to give back an apartment and employed lawyers to fight against an exiting BK who had woken up and left the religion in order to keep it. Yes, you might say, "a fool and his money are soon parted" but it takes others skilled at "parting" money and property from individuals to complete that equation. I felt that you defended and excusing those "skilled" individuals whereas I would condemn them.

This marks for me where they is are now truly at ... acquisition and ownership. But the "they" I will accuse are not just the individual BKs but the spirit entities behind them, empowering and inspiring them on. How could they!?!

I have no idea what your experience of life is now nor how you manage your life and protect your child. I am suspecting that the child must be split or torn a bit like a child in a divorce and growing up in two entirely mental spheres, one of which - the BKWSU version - if not "The Truth" is a projected insanity.

I am sorry if you feel you have to pull out because I think you could offer the readers of this forum some value ... if you work beyond stock-in-trade BKism.

I found some of your representations of Brahma-Kumarism a little vague and thought you could do better. I wondered how much you felt you had to compromise your views either to defend your relationships with either your partner or other BKs. I do feel that you let us down a little by not being specific enough and would like to know why you felt you had to defend the Brahma Kumaris and on what grounds. And, yes, it would have been better to state clearly your current involvement upfront.

If I could question your experience to write something very harsh, it would be to underline the difficulties or dangers for ex-BKs to engage in relationships with other ex-BKs, personal or otherwise. I can understand the attractions ... but I think that, on one hand we are like recovering alcoholics at an AA meeting and should not date until we resolve our issues; on the other hand, there are active psychic influences which we are unaware of influencing us. I do not mean "past-karma", I mean current psychic influences upon us. Such relationships might seem easy and attractive ... but I think they should remain forbidden fruit.

There are other BK/ex-BK couples ... I have no idea how they got on. Sure, you can argue that "normal couples" have problems too, it is the state of the world that no one has respect for the vows or commitments they make etc but I do not think that is in the same category nor an excuse. Alternatively, you might be able to report that their involvement in the new improved BKWSU has made things better than they would have otherwise been. I don't know.
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leela

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post16 Jan 2009

Farewell to Terry.
ex-l wrote:I am sorry if you feel you have to pull out because I think you could offer the readers of this forum some value ...

I, too, am sorry to see Terry go. I followed his posts from start to finish and found them all rich with truth, insight, erudition, humor, and honesty. I would have liked to hear more. I am a little mystified by the reactions to his posts. The tones of "with us or against us" are indeed reminiscent of Bush.
it is nothing but socially and individually damaging insanity ...

I can tell you my definition of insanity: Spinning stories in my imagination; believing those stories; reacting emotionally to them; then going out into the world to act and interact as if they were true. One thing I know for sure - on that road there can be no resolution. When I turn around and retrace my steps, back through the emotions to the imaginary stories and seed thoughts - well, that is my road back to sanity, resolution, and freedom.
I hope you are still reading this Terry and I apologize in advance if this is going to become too personal for you.

I don't know if such imaginative and speculative stories can qualify as personal. Now, I am no psychologist, (where's Terry when you need him!) but to me, this kind of speculation and, dare I say, projection is beginning to sound just a tad pathological.
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ex-l

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post17 Jan 2009

leela wrote:I am a little mystified by the reactions to his posts ... I don't know if such imaginative and speculative stories can qualify as personal.

We will have to wait and see. I am sure Terry can speak for himself but his silence might say more.

From where I am sitting, I think I would have handled the BKs on the 'reporting abuse' topic, or abused followers in general, more sensitively and not caused a big distraction there.

I don't know ... Terry zeroed in on the "anonymity issue". This is something that the BKWSU has had a 'thing' about since the beginning, trying to use it to discredit this forum, and others from Oz, have made a point about too. Given the lack of disclosure about his BKWSU connection, I'd love him to clear the air and tell us if he discussed all this with BKs beforehand and what exactly his point or his coming here is all about.

The history of the anonymity is pure innocence. That is the way it was on xBKChat.com where we had our roots, that is the way it is on most forums. Folks join with fun, silly or meaningful names to them. We read from inner circle BKWSU correspondence dealing with us their opinions on the anonymity, anonymous complaints were not valid. We saw it in the legal case and in the INFORM summary about the BKs. For folks that are aiming to be egoless, bodiless etc, they sure are hung up about personalities and, I would surmise, are trying disarming objective criticism on the basis of targeting individuals and portraying problems as the problems - usually the 'lack of understanding' of those individuals.

When one is sitting with someone who will not talk, all you can do is suggest, "... is it this ... or is it that ..." in the hope that they will pick up on one, or reject the other, so there can be some forward movement. Obviously these are personal issues rather than "stories" or discussion of Popperian social theory. If the reaction was not to his taste then, as he pointed out, life is tough and ... "its his karma!®".
Edip Yuksel wrote:Popper's theory of epistemology: a perpetual falsifiable journey towards truth

'Epistemology' is the study of knowledge and justified belief. Popper argues that humanity evolves by shedding its falsified theories and suggested two qualities as a virtue of good theory:

    1. A good theory is a great challenger. It is intrinsically open to all kind of examinations. The broader the range of the claim the better is the theory, since wide-ranging claims are highly falsifiable. The life-span of the theory against the attack of falsificationists is not relevant for determining its quality.

    2. A good theory is clear and precise. It does not hide behind vague expressions, nor it does not act as a double-dealer. Indeed, the less a theory shows these quality the less information it provides.

Of the BKWSU, one might argue, the less a theory ... or the proponents of a theory ... show the qualities of the vague expressions and double-dealing, the less information it provides.
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frisbee

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post20 Jan 2009

Thanks terry for showing us what it really means to be "ex-" ! The rest of us do well to remember the words of that other wise old man Mr Miyagi -
Mr Miyagi wrote:"Walk road. Walk right side, safe. Walk left side, safe. Walk middle, get squished just like grape."
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alladin

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post21 Jan 2009

Hi, Frisbee! Welcome to the Forum and really nice picture you chose for your avatar :).

It reminds me of the long journey it takes from the stage of being cubs, vulnerable and liable to be pushed around and killed, to become skillful hunters, and real "self sovereigns". It goes without saying that my journey is not completed!

Anytime a BK finds the courage to turn around and roar, to say "NO!" to some nonsense pushed on him as Shrimat by someone higher up in the hierarchy of BKWSO, it is a good sign of awakening from the zombie stage, the trap cult followers fall into, and there's some hope for liberation.
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ex-l

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Re: Hullo from Terry

Post21 Jan 2009

That is both funny and deep. I think I like it. Can one walk the middle path with the Brahma Kumaris and not get hit by incoming, or outgoing traffic in either direction? Probably not. I also wanted to add a Gyani point of view, see below.

Another fine commentator, far wiser than I, once suggested that being a 'recovering BK follower' was a bit like being a 'recovering alcoholic'. What would we say of a 'recovering alcoholic' that only went to a bar on special occasion or drank a few times a year? Perhaps it is possible ... most folks would respond, "uh-oh" and want a reality check. But, yes, we probably do bring out one's true colors.

As someone that responded, I did not react to Terry's position with the BKWSU. That is his own business and he is welcome to it. I agreed with some of what he wrote. It was just the erroneous or misleading statement, the BK samo-samo, that he was writing. Half way between fluff and cover up. See the post by rely at Communications Decency Act.

There is another angle of Brahma Kumarism that I do respond to, and it is nothing to do with Gyan, Yoga or spirituality ... it is to do with class. Whilst projecting the image of the ancient ascetics or Gandhi's wisdom on the outside, it is all becoming very middle-classed and comfortable on the inside, if you ask me. I often find others with equivalent middle-class values, nice academics e.g., defending the BKs on the basis of a fear at that the same exposure or close inspection might happen to them. What is the opposite of "schadenfreude"?

In the old days of the Western BKWSU, "to do deal with God" ... e.g. have "mutually beneficial" relationship or give and take ... was consider to be the definition of Copper Aged and impure.

It used to be something like, to be Golden Age was just to do and not ask for return, Silver Age was to follow instructions, Copper was doing deals and Iron doing the opposite or ignoring. I have approximated for the sake of brevity. It was even against Maryadas to mix money and business talk with the center, especially to pursue professional interest within the BKWSU ... Even to pursue professional interest at all was looked down upon. Now it appears to me that it is cash in time for a lot of BKs, or a new caste of BKs.

Anyway, a bit of fun ... cue 'Wizard of Id' quote (I hope the psychoanalyst appreciate this reference). RIP the fine soul of artist Johnny Hart who died this week.

The-BK-peasants-are-revolting.jpg
The-BK-peasants-are-revolting.jpg (18.31 KiB) Viewed 17993 times

"The Peasants are Revolting", the alarm rings out.
"You can say that again," says the King in reply.

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