Hello. My name is ... and I am a recovering BK

Yes, there were some grumblings about Patil and the BKWSU. She obviously was NOT told the real deal as she came away thinking she had meant only the spirit of the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani. Usual yukti with VIPs, the BKs try not to push it too far and snigger at the reactions of VIPs and, no doubt, their future reaction come Destruction when they realise who it was ... but TOO LATE!!!

You are digusted by all the deceit in the name of "yukti". I am disgusted by how much time, energy and money they put into sending out PR and media releases about how wonderful and great they are. This is one reason why you only hear "positive" news about them.

blah, blah, blah ... 'Brahma Kumaris' ... blah, blah, blah ... 'some big number' ... blah, blah, blah ... 'global' ... blah, blah blah .. 'the name of somebody famous.

This is thought of as "service" and all paid for by donations. Now, in a country of such needs as India ... that really disgusts me. Karuna Shetty seems to spend all his time joining social networking websites and spamming BKs to join.

So what happens to the young girls once they are in? How are they ground down and pre-processed by the Great Beakie Machine? Are the poor ones ever allowed out?

In another topic, we are reading about how in Brazil, they have set up a system whereby Beakies working in the publicity department get paid money so that they can go to Madhuban etc. Hell, that is just like the start of the industrial age when the working class slaves were underpaid by the factory owner, had to live in houses rented to them by the factory owners ... and then could only spend their wages in shops owned by the facotry owners too.

Is there any such system by which these young girls have any freedom or are they allowed to express their will in any way? Are they educated outside of "The Knowledge"? etc

So what happens to the young girls once they are in? How are they ground down and pre-processed by the Great Beakie Machine? Are the poor ones ever allowed out?

Don't think there is any better tool than Murli to ground down any BK. Oh yeah, attending everyday morning class makes it even more effective. It will strip you off of all reason/logic and commonsense. It's not clear what you refering to when you say "allowed out". Yeah, they do go out shopping and stuff - after all, they are not behind bars. I guess it all depends on how liberal (there's a word to ponder on) center-in-charge is.

Is there any such system by which these young girls have any freedom or are they allowed to express their will in any way? Are they educated outside of "The Knowledge"? etc

Lokik education is discouraged. It may be tolerated during your trail period. But, not after you surrender.

I meant, allowed to leave ... to ex-BK. I should think it is tough enough in India being a women ... but an untrained, unmarriable, ex-Brahma Kumari?

I find it hard to believe that some don't grow up and question the faith or the system. What happens then? Are they left with just nothing? That is ownership, voluntary becoming actually slavery where food, dress, speech, actions, lifestyle are all determined by someone else. A sweet slavery, you might say.

Its fine for us in the West, especially women, for where Brahma-kumarism is a lifestyle choice open to the more privileged and educated, where family ties are weak but society and civil rights are strong. But I always bear in mind that 99% of BKs are in India and things are different there. Especially for women.

This would also be a reflection on the movement's oft proclaimed "feminism".

It is almost unheard of a dedicated Sister becoming an ex-BK. I guess they resign to their fate and play within the system. I would say it is the same dynamic as getting stuck in a bad marriage. Hurdles to get of out of them are same in both the cases. In case of a bad marraige, ignoring the social stigma, you can still get out and go back to your family. Most of the BKs' lokik family ties are strained or fractured. I think that financial independence is the biggest hurdle of them all. I know it is changing a bit with the new economic reality - MNCs etc. But, still the employment opportunities are not that bright if you have just basic education.

Our civil rights laws are as strong ... only on paper. They are severely undermined by caste, class and gender politics.

BKWSU's feminism is a sham! They are more of elitism and royal (power) mongering.

BKWSU's feminism is a sham! They are more of elitism and royal (power) mongering.

That is what I was afraid of.

I cannot say that I have ever heard them speaking out or acting against the caste system, more they have just spent their attentions on making THEIR brand of Brahminism an acceptable brand of Brahminism.

Would it be correct that this does not was, or go down well, with real Brahmins in India? How are the BKs seen by Brahmins and the Indian intelligensia? (I appreciate that not all caste born Brahmins are either elite or "intelligent"). Have they "won" that battle and are they accepted as "Brahmins" or are they still outside of soceity? (Strange position, outside of it and yet still climbing onto the top).

And, please, what do you mean by, "most of the BKs' lokik family ties are strained or fractured"? You mean 'strained and fractured BY their involvement in Brahma Kumarism' ... not that they became BK BECAUSE of strained or fractured families in the first place?

Thanks.

I meant that families are strained and fractured by their involvement in Brahma Kumarism. So, it is tough for a surrendered Sister to leave Gyan and go back to their lokik families.

I don't think BKs will ever win the battle with caste Brahmins. I did not even know such a battle exists. It is clear that no caste Brahmin will ever acknowledge them as 'real Brahmins'.

Most of the intelligentsia is vary about BKs. But, as I said before. BKism comes in so many packages now, more and more educated get trapped. (I am not implying that all educated are intellegent ). Toli from cute innnocent Sister is such a lure .

BKism comes in so many packages now, more and more educated get trapped.

"Defused" at the outer edges of BK-ism, perhaps? You mean, by some Self-Management Leadership course type of thing, thinking THAT is the BKWSU?

How do you see the demographics of the BKWSU in India and Indian communities overseas? It is still mainly lower middle class, or is there a class divide between a BK ruling caste and BK serf caste?

Is anyone being "empowered" or "liberated"?

Its funnily because if you look at people like the Christian and Buddhist missionaries, I am thinking of the renown Dr Ambedkar here, they are working away to help people break out of the caste system (at least in theory ... they often remain poor and marginalised). Westerners really have no idea how deep the caste system goes in India. The Brahma Kumaris appear more to be saying, "Its your karma™" ... be a good and peaceful one whilst, at least to themselves, asserting themselves as the true top dogs or working their way onto the top rung of the caste ladder. And Westerners are helping them do so.

I often wonder what percentage of the lure "being a Brahmin" for BK Indians is? Is Mount Abu a sort of luxury timeshare, spiritual holiday camp for the middle classes now? But I sense there is this other sort of vibe from which I feel that it is all a false puffed up front and they are bumbling along, pushing their way about, and wonder how seriously they are taken? Where they fit into society. I heard that ordinary Indians can be quite afraid of them and the BK are quite assertive.

Perhaps Westeners are impression by 'the numbers' but by Indian terms, the numbers are not that great at all. We were talking about Rajneesh in another topic and even before Lekhraj Kirpalani died, he alone was pulling in crowds of tens of thousands.

I am thinking of the renown Dr Ambedkar here

Was just talking about the dude with some (no idea what a BK is) friends last night! - ko inki dinky

it is tough for a surrendered Sister to leave Gyan and go back to their lokik families.

Apart from dealing with "We told you so" from their families and friends, and eating humble pie - which would ameliorate any fracture and strain, and hopefully induce compassion and forgiveness - what stops girls/women going back? More than family, I would guess it is partly economic, i.e. harder to marry "off" if older, and also if older, to get a real job.

Deccani, ex-l is asking you a lot of questions. Adding to those if you don't mind - Can you summarise for us the extent of your anecdotal evidence please? Just want to get a clear picture of how representative it may be (I ask out of real curiosity, not any distrust at all).

- how many zones and centres you have had more than brief encounters with, i.e. is your experience local or widespread?
- were you ever "surrendered" (you say your sibling/s is/are)? How did their surrender affect relationships with you or the rest of your family (especially non BKs)?
- how did your 'defection" affect relations between you and siblings, and how old were you and they at the time?
- were your siblings good conduits of "gossip" of life inside, and if so, has that changed since exiting?

Regards
Terry

"Defused" at the outer edges of BK-ism, perhaps? You mean, by some Self-Management Leadership course type of thing, thinking THAT is the BKWSU?

Yep, SML is one of those diffused BKisms. These were the corporate bakras (translation: sacrificial goats) you could call them:

Godrej & Boyce
Nagarjuna Group
The Atul Group
The Oberoi Group

Source : http://www.oxfordleadership.com/pool/marc-fourcade-profile.pdf

I would guess it is partly economic, i.e. harder to marry "off" if older, and also if older, to get a real job.

Yes. That is what I meant when I say financial independence.

I'll tell you this guys. If either of you ever decide to turn into a God Man/Woman or a Guru, please allow me to manage your finances. A Swiss bank account would be a bonus .

Don't go setup your Ashram in India. Because, no Indian would follow a white guru. However, they will flock in droves around a guru who has white followers. Reasons are beyond my comprehension ... some one should look into this phenomenon. West is a huge market for any Eastern philosophy - it's exotic. Talk about Soul and you can fill a conference hall. I'll let you pick the place.

Marc has very rich experience in this field, in Europe as well as in Asia ... his major engagements in Asia have included a strategic engagement with Godrej & Boyce. He has also facilitated similar engagements at The Nagarjuna Group, The Atul Group, The Oberoi Group, and several other organisations have benefited from his leadership development impact.

Is this is all the BKWSU co-sponsorship or commission kick back work that the BKWSU/Oxford Leadership Conspiracy got off the back of BKWSU connections?

I know there was a BK "service" connection with leaders/owners of Godrej. Did someone convert to BK, or is a demi-BK? We read how the "licensing deal" between the Brian Bacon/the OLA and the BKWSU was if ever corporate work came in, they got to do it and charge for it even though elements of Brahma-kumarism were clearly involved. I should think all corporation would love to have a workforce that was hypnotised and believed anything bad that happened to them was "their karma".

I'll tell you this guys. If either of you ever decide to turn into a God Man/Woman or a Guru, please allow me to manage your finances. A Swiss bank account would be a bonus .

Its a possibility really. All we have to do is wear a dhoti, speak slowly and with long pregnant pauses, and carry a single rose whilst we walk on the stage to give drishti. I don't know about Indian (beyond the PBKs and Vishnu Party etc) but the only BK in the West that has made it into guruhood and that one of the original Western BKs, Robert Shubow, now Sat Yoga guru Sri Shunyamurti. I suppose you might arge that ex-BK Heidi Fitkau-Garthe also had guru status.

Do you think any of us could keep a straight face for long enough?

The net now expands to Hotel Mangement?? Wow....

Here the programmes under Self Development umbrella..

Source :http://www.bkbiwing.org/

Self Development Programmes

B&I Wing offers a variety of short and long courses, workshops which focus on the development of specific personal skills and qualities of individual. These include:

Specialised Programmes: 1-2-3 Days

Self Managing Leadership - for all those who wish to develop their personal leadership capabilities to a high level through a disciplined process of self management.

Self Orientation Workshop - deals with bringing about a true balance of involvement and introspection in order to be a master over one's own thoughts, words and actions.

Personality Transformation- especially for people in Personnel and HRD and of course for everybody to fine tune one's own personality traits (sanskars).

Hospitality Management - for hotels & resort businessmen and professionals, managing hospitality business.

Hospitality Management - for hotels & resort businessmen and professionals, managing hospitality business.

That is terrible is it just another cover or are they going to chuck out the god and turn Mount Abu into a timeshare holiday resort?

It seems to me that what they are doing here is capitalising on their extensive property investments and experience running conferences which at least I cant deny them that they have.

Lesson number one for bosses: in order to have a happy, compliant staff that work for free and do not complain ... hypnotise them!

More centers will be opened in the Caribbean, as I was told. All there is are resorts and young people coming to work there. Good targets! Away from home, homesick, lonely etc.

Interesting news. My guess they will be targeting the retired as well. More money, sooner to die.

Of course, such centers would also provide comfortable service spots/luxury retreats for "rewarded BKs". There are also a lot of Indians there already to staff them as 'chapati rollers', house maids etc

It is also suprising that mainstream media shy away touching/investigating any of these cults. BKWSU is better in a way - I mean, less evil - compared to ones like Satya Sai Baba, who is a child molester, maglomaniac, murderer and a cheat. With politicians prostrating at these charlatans' feet, it does not make it any easy to attack them. When Preseident Pratibha Patil met BapDada (is it one, two or three spooks? ... cramming for space), I did not hear/read anything other than a PR version of reports.

Here is the nice video documenting this event:

Pratibha Patil on speaking to a ghost

Indian presidential nominee, Pratibha Patil, in this CNN-IBN video grab, talks of spiritually communicating with a godman who died 38 years ago