Hello. My name is ... and I am a recovering BK

How young are we talking about here ...

We are talking about 15 year old girls. Barely out of high school. It all starts with an invitation to stay at the center ... and the courting begins .

There is no offical career path in BKWSU. Trajectory depends on servitude, parroting skills and good looks. We seem to shy away from talking about that aspect - physical appearence. BKs are not all about soul consciousness.

Any anglophone, with yukti (here is my definition of yukti - license to be morally flexible) you can rise up the ranks. They could be tapped to carry on the legacy of Brian Bacon and Marc Forcade. There is no better combination than:

a) from a rich family
b) fluent in English
c) good looks

One could always debate on the order of the last two .

Thanks for the Welcome Mr. Yogieksauaath. You are one of those superstars, eh? My siblings are BKs. They were child BKs too (got in as teens). I'll leave it at that. Sorry!

There is no better combination than:
a) from a rich family
b) fluent in English
c) good looks

It's the same everywhere (replace b. with just ''fluent" or well spoken). A 4th factor would be "celebrity" or "status" to any itsy bitsy degree whatsoever. Never get between between a BK and a VIP!!

On one trip to Abu, I was sharing a railway carriage with the son of the then governor of Gujarat, and his wife (or fiance.) We got on famously, spent the trip from Delhi discussing all kinds of things - history, politics, governance, philosophy, cricket etc. He expressed surprise that as a foreigner I was so broadly aware, and even more surprised when he found out that I was BK on the way to Mt Abu! (Yes folks, I did "service" without mentioning a word about Raja Yoga or Gyan, just by being me).

A few days later he accompanied his Father and entourage who were visiting Madhuban as VVVIP guests in an official capacity. When I saw him I approached to say hullo, but was bustled away by the BK circus (security would not be the right word) that surrounded them. But he had asked someone about me by name. I was then sought out and invited to share a special VIP lunch and the afternoon with him and with all the top honchos, both Madhubani and foreign.

I must say I was given the ''evil eye" by a number of "senior" BKs. The "what is he doing here" dissaproving look. Funnily enough it came more from those foreigners there who knew me well, both white and tan skinned. To be honest, some were not like that at all, and were very positive. But others, well, they do say "if looks could kill ..."

Yet another, "A funny thing happened to me on the way to Madhuban ..." story.

Classic post. It is little vignettes like this that bring the forum to light and give it its authority.

Who else was it that ended up in a vintage car in India, spending the day with a Maharaja or something, who was just really happy not be talking with BKs about their damned god all the time?

Deccani makes and important point in terms of physical appearance ...

I have had many instances of these in the centres in the US ...

SS tells a junior Sister (who is a good looking one and she was getting in to her forties ...): "Bhen, you should dye your hair at least for public program's ...".
Junior Sister: "I really don't want to".
SS: "It's not a body conscious thing, we are doing god's service and we need to look good".
JS: "Dyeing your hair is not about looking good but actually misleading and not good for the health of the hair!!!".

Second incident

An intoxicated Brother wanted to organize a play for the Diwali program and was choosing his cast looking for Pukka yogi's to play a role since he thinks they being pukka will have an impact on the audience

SS: "Brother how about getting this Sister for this role?".
Brother: "But bhenji, she is actually not even in Gyan".
SS: "But she is quite good looking!!!"

The intoxicated Brother was me!!!

Well, so many like these ...

We can debate and say that its god's service and these are all Yukti's to get souls connected to Baba and then he will take care etc ... Then what is the difference between ... don't want to really spell it out here.

Yogi

How young are we talking about here ...

We are talking about 15 year old girls. Barely out of high school. It all starts with an invitation to stay at the center ... and the courting begins .

What sort of numbers are we talking about here ... what goes on behind the closed doors at the Brahma Kumari centers?

The "what is he doing here" dissaproving look.

Multi-layered discrimination is deep rooted in Indian society. Looks like those white folks got colored - sang ka rang. I like your story Terry.

Talking about VVIPs, even when I was very young, I used to think, why kiss these guys asses!! How about we ourselves become those VVIPs and reveal the Father? I had my life ahead of me. It seemed so logical.

What sort of numbers are we talking about here ... what goes on behind the closed doors at the Brahma Kumari centers?

I do not have such statistics. Can I get those numbers? May be not. I crossed the pond - not just the town - quite a while back, ex-l.

what goes on behind the closed doors at the Brahma Kumari centers?

Are you refering to any lesbo action. Even if you take 1/2 of the average in general population, that would be lot of BK lesbians. What the heck, even a single one would be such a sensation.

... We can debate and say that its god's service ...

Yogi Bhai,

As you know very well, the end does not justify the means! They abuse the word yukti so much, it is sickening.

Blushing at the thought of BK sisterly love action ... no, I really just meant; how are the young girls courted ... treated ... indoctrinated ... what are they told about men, the world, life ... the Yugya and their part in it?

Although it was always claimed that women had stronger sexual desires and, recently, scientists prove that they are physically turned on my more stimulus than males ... there has always been the fear and ability to deny it built in as well. I have questioned the forum about Indian women's sexuality, usually to a resounding silence.

In truth, I suspect that overt lesbianism within the Brahma Kumaris is extremely rare. It would be very difficult to hide and such a taboo, one whif of it and it would be stamped out like a match in a paper factory. But ... I suspect that 'subtle lesbianism' is fairly common. That is to say the deadly vice of attachment creeping in (even 'the Baba' mentioned this in the Murlis) and Sisters being sucked into surrogate "husband and wife", dominant and submissive, type relationships. Certainly, I can remember more than a few in love with other BKs.

Would we be right to suggest that Brahma Kumarism splits up Indian families just the same way it does Western families ... and how to friends and relationship deal with and react to having a BK in the family? Is it a bit like having a Moonie or converted Jehovah's Witness in the family that no one want to ask around because they are going to be preached at? Do they do all the same "not eating others cooking" and acting detached and superior?

Lesbianism apparent or not, I truly believe there is much hormonal imbalance within the membership of the BKWSU and I deem this responsible for some of the behaviour patterns we have noted and still see.

... what are they told about men, the world, life ... the Yugya and their part in it?

They will drill into the head that 'sex is violence against women' - one of the jewels from the Murli . When it comes to yugya's history, either it is the Bollywood version or the no-version. Most of them are themselves ignorant.

... surrogate "husband and wife" ...

I would say Master and Slave relationships are more common . Mental S&M, eh? Every center-in-charge has got atlease one slave.

Brahma Kumarism splits up Indian families just the same way it does Western families ...

That effect of BKism is universal.

I would say, it is more devastating in here in India, be it social or economic reasons. Unlike the West, resources/help is not readily available to address psychological effects. Each family deal with this dynamic differently. You are laughed at or shunned by your friends or relatives. These so called Maryadas - eating, wearing white etc - make it much worse.

I truly believe there is much hormonal imbalance within the membership of the BKWSU

Of course!! Depression and even mental disorders. What do they do when some one go crazy? They are sent home. Such a hypocrisy!! HOME??!!!

You are laughed at or shunned by your friends or relatives.

That's why it is said in the Murli ... "First your family then your friends becomes your enemy".

That is all to make you feel that you are not crazy but the rest is. Clever, huh???

They will drill into the head that 'sex is violence against women' - one of the jewels from the Murli ... What do they do when some one goes crazy? They are sent home. Such a hypocrisy!! HOME??!!!

You are confirming my deepest fears and making me very sad but we know this sort of stuff from the West too.

You are correct, what a hypocrisy ... was the BKWSU the 'be all and end all' of Spiritual Hospitals? And so when it all goes wrong, what do they do? Hide the corpse. I mean even literally. I don't know the whole details but there was a news about a young women at a BK center in Orissa/Agra who wanted to leave and get married to her lover but set fire to herself instead. Its on the forum and still on the internet.

The police were stuck because someone took away the body and cleaned up all the evidence and then the center-in-charges absconded. Which is what they also did after the Panipat suicide where the villagers or townfolk rioted. I'd want to get to the facts on that one. Must was made of contraceptives at the scene. Adding to the young girl whose parents accused the BKs of kidnapping their daughter, "imprisoning" and maltreating her (a tough center-in-charge being rough on a headstrong kunya probably) I think doing so would identify the other face of the BKWSU.

The two business of a) returning damaged goods to the "poisonous, impure, hellish Shudra" lokiks and b) absconding when it hits the fan seem to me to be cetnralised policies.

If a women leaves her husband or family and joins the Brahma Kumaris just to escape a lousy sex marriage or sex life; personally, I do not think that is a sincere spiritual seeker. A path of "Raja Yoga" ought to a higher one than just a women's refuge center (as admirable as that is).

In essence, Lekhraj Kirpalani did set a precedent of taking on such cases (the PBKs make a point of this, that the early division in the Yugya was because "the mother" Lekhraj Kirpalani was too weak with the corrupting influences). My feeling is that this has been abuse by women want to escape the shackles of a lousy arranged marriage. To them "Baba" and the business model in which they can be the boss without a fumbling husband around, must be quite a saviour. If we add to that hormones (which women do have rather a lot of at various ages), unchecked dominance and lesbian tendancies ... that makes for quite a environment.

Its crazy for a nation that produced the Kama Sutra that it cant have an adult discussion about sex (Done well, sex is really not that bad ... its often just getting stuck with the person and their in-laws at the other end of it that is the problem!).

I don't know if you also read it, but there was one civil women's group that criticised and campaigned against Dadi Janki for the "medieval" practise of marrying young virgins off to a spirit god. We are seriously concerned that there is no way out for these girls ... and, of course, there is no hope of getting their dowries back out of Ramesh Shah's hands.

Are there any modern, rational, secular voices in India or the Hindi community discussing or criticising the Brahma Kumaris? What is the real public opinion of the BKs or their reputation amongst Indian?

What is the real public opinion of the BKs or their reputation amongst Indian?

A very good friend of mine was in India to be part of a Peace Camp and help building a school in a poor village. At the end of the event he was invited by other participants to visit their family in Mount Abu.

There he saw those people in white all around and asked his friends who they were. They did not have a good opinion of the BKs.

He thought this must be the group I belong to and decided to go visit the BK ashram (Madhuban). Of course, they wanted to sign him up for the 7 day course. He thought they were very arrogant.

Hi Decanni,

I've always wanted more viewpoints from Indians to be on this forum.

The other day I read in the India news that the family of a bride who has eloped with her new husband (without prior consent of families) had went over to visit the son-in-law's family, the latter whom were expecting some reconciliation, but instead the girl's family chopped off the heads of 8 members of the man's family! But the news did not seem to make it such a huge thing.

I mean how many people here on this forum, in the safety net of our warm shelters, can actually contemplate such an event.

In this context, if you are living under such a country, things such as BK or other cults, maybe it is the only way out (out of hell) but in many parts of the world, Indians emigrated abroad enjoy a lot of freedom and have modernised (called it Westernised or industrialised) even though there is still some old ways going on in downtown Southall, Ealing or Bradford. But I don't expect head beings cut off in Sheffield.

It is so easy to look at the BK world from outside India but it must be hell in India, and regardless of how the outside (West) perceives the BKs, for many the BKs in India maybe it is the only hope they have .Whether or not it is God probably does not even matter since they all leave things up to some God anyway.

So thanks for your insights. I hope there are more Indians on the forum who will give us their experiences of being Indian (in India or in the West).

What is the real public opinion of the BKs or their reputation amongst Indian?

A number of years ago someone said to me that the BKs in India were seen in a similar way to how the Mormons are seen in the West, i.e. like proselytising fundamentalists who have "rewritten" the scriptures to suit their own church.

And an interesting social perspective there Bansy.

So thanks for your insights. I hope there are more Indians on the forum who will give us their experiences of being Indian (in India or in the West).

Appreciate your encouragement. Since I sampled both – cultures as well as BKism on either side of Atlantic - I would like to think that I carry a unique perspective. Agree. I am sure there are lot more Indians who access/use this website - some in stealth and some as active members. It will be great if more people speak out.

On the lighter note: So, how do you like your new status? From "BK" to "BK Supporter" - definetly an upgrade, eh?

... He thought they were very arrogant.

Supremely arrogant, I would say. Looking back, I used to think I knew the secret to everything . Here is the punchline: I was a 9 year old. That intoxication lasted in varying degrees well into my adult life. My innocence was robbed in a unique way. It's like telling a child that there is no real Santa Clause. Atleast, it is a fact in the case of Santa.

similar way to how the Mormons are seen in the West

Yep. Minus the polygamy .

What is the real public opinion of the BKs or their reputation amongst Indian?

General perception is that of family wreckers. and also as "ones who convert wife and husband to Brother and Sister". But, I seen that BKWSU is evolving. Now Gyan is wrapped in so many different packages (e.g. SML), that more educated (typically middle class) get lured in. There is so much of lying/non-disclosure (all in the name of yukti), that it is appalling.

It is also suprising that main stream media shy away touching/investigating any of these cults. BKWSU is better in a way - I mean, less evil - compared to ones like Satya Sai Baba, who is a child molester, maglomaniac, murderer and a cheat. With politicians prostrating at these charlatans' feet, it does not make it any easy to attack them. When Preseident Pratibha Patil met BapDada (is it one, two or three spooks? ... cramming for space), I did not hear/read anything other than a PR version of reports.