Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
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trish

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post18 Feb 2009

ex-l wrote:Trish, you are very welcome to come onto this forum

Thank you I have registered now
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tom

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post18 Feb 2009

Dear Sukhi,

I appreciate very much and thank you for your nice message and your warm feelings about our friendship.
Only there is one point i don't agree with you. This one:
sukhi wrote:And the other reason why i was able to share my problem with you all here and was not willing to do with psychotherapist was that i thought that the therapist would not understand me better as they don't know about BK or Baba, BK's teachings or anything and how would he be able to comment on Baba's Murli points or convince me if I ask him anything. So I was always looking for someone who was/is in BK and would able to understand me ... because I believe those who have passed through similar situation or pain knows about it better and can have the same feelings and can guide you more better ...

And believe me if I say here, I am not boasting here but each and everyone of you here are the best psychotherapists or the healers.

This is the trick, the minds of all addicted ones play for a while not to go to a psychotherapist. They search refugee amongst their friends, who seem to understand them and give them good advices. But this only postpones the healing process and even in most of the cases makes it impossible.

None of us is a therapist here. We only share our experiences from our humble lives with our advices and our good wishes to a fellow voyager, means to you and to others. We give you love and support to start healing yourself. But we cannot give you the tools for that. You should search for help yourself.

For such deep rooted addictions and restrictions of the mind with hard blockages, the help of an expert psychotherapist is a MUST. We cannot replace an expert's place. We are only friends.

Don't get afraid that a therapist would not understand your position. Just the opposite. I read many reports of the scientists, that most of the cases of dysfunctional sexual relationships between loving partners rely on deep rooted guilty consciousness coming from religious backgrounds. There are some testimonies of married couples from both main religions reporting the husband has not seen the naked body of his beloved wife after a marriage of 10-15 years with 3 children, because of the deep rooted religious beliefs of the woman.

These ladies were accepting sexual intercourse according to their twisted belief system only for the sake of making children and made it without any pleasure without taking their cloths off. Does this sound familiar to you, that you allow all foreplays but not the intercourse?

Believe me, there are thousands of cases of couples banned to a hellish life because of one religious conditioned partner. It does not matter which religion, which sect. All of them brainwash us in the name of God.

The therapist does not need to know the details of your BK belief. What Murlis say, what the Seniors and the teachers are suggesting etc. It is enough for him to know that your religion or sect forbids you to make sex and describes it as violence and as greatest sin. This would be enough for him/her to start with your healing process.

Please go ahead ASAP and give us the good news that you found a good therapist for the treatment of your source of unhappiness.

bk-j

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post18 Feb 2009

OS Sukhi, reply from Silver Age

You know our life is predestined and whatever happens, happens for a reason. What is happening to you is for a good reason.

Do not feel guilty as most Seniors do it as well and they do not feel guilty. By the way, the very same Sisters and married Sisters read the Murli. I know a very Senior Sister, surrendered had an hysterectomy - for what I do not know. God does not punish, but will guide you through your situation.

Sex, 3 to 4 times a month will not hurt anybody and I am sure your husband will understand. I, myself, am married and, yes, married life and being in Gyan is wonderful. However I restrict my visit to the centre to once a week on a Sunday, so i don't have to listen to any dictating. I know of BKs who cook meat for their families at their homes and still help in the kitchen at the centres. Now, where is guilt for them?

Sukhi, go for it. Make a family. Your happiness is greater than anyone else's.

Many blessings for your marriage.
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desi_exbk

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post18 Feb 2009

Thanks for that wonderful post Tom. Such a sound advice.

Sukhi,

I agree with Tom. You may be able to fight off your guilt over time, but it might be just too late in your case. Professional help will give you the right methods to confront your fears. BKWSU is no different than a typical cult. A good psychotherapist would completely understand what you are talking about.

Hey, since I have a family I can tell you, kids are not that bad! I know, I sound like your Mom here :D but believe me, they WILL redefine you. It is a wonderful human experience.

Good luck with everything.

Terry

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post19 Feb 2009

Dear Suhki

Yes, Tom and Deccanni are right. You may logically understand all this, and feel that guilt is an inappropriate reaction, but it will be very difficult to immediately replace emotional patterns built up over years.

A good therapist will definitely accelerate your own natural ability to heal. Like a good car mechanic, if you find one, stick with him/her. If you don't feel they are giving you the attention you deserve, i.e. just filling up the allotted time - move on till you find the right one.

It can be a slow process, but even then it will be faster and more effective than trying to untease all the knots by yourself. And do not shy away from a specialist "sex therapist" Some people think they are for people who are already into sex and want more and better. They are actually trained in all aspects of sexual function & dysfunction; and their physical, emotional and psychological causes.

And when you are ready, and conceive children with love rather than duty, you will realise life's completion. That is my experience (I was BK for over 15 years).
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ex-l

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post19 Feb 2009

Without knowing the individual, I would say, "might" be difficult. Alternatively, it "might" not. It might be quick and easy. Magic does happen and healings can and do happen very quickly. It is for Sukhi to tell us.

    Dadi Gulzar in private chit chats tells people that the children in the Golden Age are conceived "just like now". I suspect many BKs will have heard this ... but it is not what they tell the masses. All sort of ridiculous nonsense about tears of peacocks and power of Yoga.

    Dadi Janki has also advised women to make love to their husbands.
The BKWSU leadership has deceived us more than we thought ... even keeping children and the elderly controlling lust in their dreams!! So many young cheerful BKs have killed their natural instincts, even killed themselves, lost years, become neurotic ... for what? Its all just a social control mechanism. A tool for their empire building.

One thing for sure, Sukhi, talking on this forum will clear up a lot of issue that you have and reveal how deep, or serious, or not, you problem might be. I agree that for BKs, talking to non-BKs could be difficult. At the time when one need support the most, one would be forces to educate the other on being BK. In a sense, one has to switch off from feeling again and put on your BK personality again to do so ... the very thing that is causing your problems in the first place. Perhaps after chatting, and experimenting, you will feel clearer about how deep your problems are.

I am not Indian but have spent many years of my life amongst many different sub-continental Indians. The first things that comes to mind from what the others have written is to pick up is the issues Indian women experience about shame and their bodies. I wrote before about the name given to their sexual organs ... "their shame-shame".

A friend had a lover who was an Indian woman who had 3 children. Her husband had never seen her naked. Their love making took seconds and never with the lights on. Roll on, roll off. They were from arranged marriage, I suspect there was no love there although there was jealousy and possession. The funny thing was, she was beautiful. She had a beautiful body. He got her to strip. Loved her. She opened up and flowered as a women ... she had never been loved plainly before. After that, he could not get her clothed back on again! It changed her life. They parted but remained good friends. He was not a god or a guru but he changed her life ... save it even.

I don't know how deep or not your condition is Sukhi but you have been touched by much unconditional love here on the forum. If that is not evidence that love exists before, beyond, after and outside the BKWSU ... then how much more do you need?

You ought to take a break from religion for a while. Any religion. Any religious talk. Say, Om Shanti to religion and just be happy in nature. Talk to that religious voice inside. Tell it to leave you alone for a while, to just be quiet for a while. That everything will be OK and that you have other business to sort out. Its very likely that it is even not a BK voice but another voice from somewhere that the BKs are just exploiting. Thank it for coming, for helping you to get to this point in your life ... and then let it go. Let it go.

Once you have done that. Stay a little longer here to learn a little more about the BKWSU, to see their place in the world and them as they really are. You know part of the picture, another part is here.

Tell me now, what is it you want? Not what do yo have to do because of what other people or other voices say ... what do you want to do? And, once you have done that ... perhaps we can think of what the next steps might be.

bansy

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post19 Feb 2009

Dear Sukhi

I would just like to add that you can use the teachings of BK as a sort of support mechanism (meditation, positive values, etc) but not let it totally engulf. You cannot hide in the BK, as it is obviously already pulling you apart.

There may come a time later when a BK life could suit you. But at this time, I think your husband and your families need you. You should also be aware that maybe they know more about the BKs then you think, and they have their reasons. You are their real daughter and they brought you up, provided education and home and food and clothing, they will not abandon you unless you abandon them. If they did not care for you, they may as well as left you beside the gutter. Do you feel that way with them ?

Don't let Gyan interfere with your daily happiness. It may suit others but those others are not you.

I wish you well.

(PS a lot of BKs I know eventually go back to their lokiks when they are older. But things would have moved on by then. Some remain enstranged.)
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desi_exbk

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post19 Feb 2009

ex-l wrote:Dadi Gulzar in private chit chats tells people that the children in the Golden Age are conceived "just like now". I suspect many BKs will have heard this ... but it is not what they tell the masses. All sort of ridiculous nonsense about tears of peacocks and power of Yoga.

Dadi Janki has also advised women to make love to their husbands.

They sold so much about asexual reproduction in Golden Age. I am assuming this is 'purely' Western BK knowledge - Advanced Knowledge?! ;).
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ex-l

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post20 Feb 2009

I do not know if Sukhi has looked at any of the study of historical and philosophical revision within the Brahma Kumari movement that we have done but we discovered that the Seniors have falsified most of their major histories. There was no God Shiva until after 1950, Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60 in 1936, there was no incarnation of Shiva in 1936, it was said in the Murlis or equivalent that WWII, 1950, 1976, mid-80s were all going to be Destruction ... and so on.

I just underline this for Sukhi's benefit to lead into what I am about to say.

If it all turns out to be utter rubbish, and Destruction does not come AGAIN within the 100 years of a Confluence Age (that used to be only 14 years). At what point will individuals be willing to through it all out as a willful delusion used to exploit others?

50 years for Destruction, 50 years for Creation ... the reincarnated Lekhraj Kirpalani being crowned as the (35 year old?) Narayan signalling the start of the Golden Age. They have only 29 years to get it all into place so he must have been reborn already.

If it all turns out to be the willfully misleading delusion, that it looks very much like to most right now, how will we assess these sexless crones, the BKWSU leadership, that pushed it all out ... a sort of death cult, obsessed with stopping procreation, stopping other women from having sex or pleasure denied to them? In a sense, they are women haters hating the very essence of what is feminine.

The fact is, the average BK center-in-charge is not that wise nor that empathic towards others. It appears to me that although the BKWSU leadership might assert their virtue solely on the basis of keeping their knickers up, they have on so many occasions indulged in other far more damaging moral, ethical and even legal corruptions. If it was not so hurtful to individuals such as you, Sukhi and other children growing up inside it like Deccani, it would be a comedy. A very bitter comedy.

Perhaps I have said too much ... but people need the blinkers removed from their eyes and to look at reality.

sukhi

friends or family of a BK

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post20 Feb 2009

Hi to Everyone,

Thanks again for uplifting my spirits!

And also to guide me to go to specialist for my problem. I would certainly do that. Just trying to find a right one now.

But have also started self-healing meanwhile. To add to this, I am also a Reiki practitioner and so also taking help from Reiki to heal myself on this. The only thing with me is my internal fight. I mean fight between my thoughts. I just need to convince my self that sex is just fine, it is a part of life and that my family and my life and being happy should be of the first and only priority for me at this stage.
ex-l wrote:Without knowing the individual, I would say, "might" be difficult. Alternatively, it "might" not. It might be quick and easy. Magic does happen and healings can and do happen very quickly. It is for Sukhi to tell us.

Well, speaking more about myself. I take things and matters always seriously, and hence the teachings of BK about celibacy especially that "SEX is a wrong thing and that one who practice it will be punished heavily" had left quite a strong impression (which is obviously no more strong and going weaker day by day) on my mind. So whenever some positive thought comes to my mind to Let Everything GO and just Live Life as it comes and to enjoy everything to its fullest etc. etc., the second thought comes but what if you will be punished? So then again I have to replace it by some positive thought.

If positive thought comes, I win but if the same old teachings come followed by it ... then I become weak and cannot move ahead with it. So I just needed someone/something to convince me that it's not wrong and that if I convince myself fully that this thing is right, I will have no more guilt that day. And I guess I have pretty much found my answers in your replies and also by reading posts similar to mine which are helping me to erase those nasty impressions left on my mind about sex being wrong.

The positive side of my nature is that I can change my mind programming easily once I determined or choose to do so. I can strongly say this as I have successfully achieved result in overcoming one of my health problem. I was quite overweight and it was only due to stress (to mention here - that it was due to a different issue in my life and not this) but just switching over to right thoughts and changing my mind programming I lost all those extra kilos (nearly 20 or so) and am even thinner now than I used to be. So it definitely works for me, I know. And I did this purely by myself, by just reading one book about "thought power", so I believe very much in this.

And I do also know that I am just a thought away to change my life. I just need to replace this negative thought that "SEX is wrong" from my mind with another powerful positive thought ... and that's it. But there only I needed help. And I can say I hit the right place to get those answers.

Saying these, I wish we could explore more into BKs, Senior BKs or Dadi's chit chats or etc and was able to find out more information on this.
ex-l wrote:Dadi Gulzar in private chit chats tells people that the children in the Golden Age are conceived "just like now". I suspect many BKs will have heard this ... but it is not what they tell the masses. All sort of ridiculous nonsense about tears of peacocks and power of Yoga.

Dadi Janki has also advised women to make love to their husbands.

Trust me, I was so convinced that peacock can reproduce asexually (I mean with the help of tears and so) even in Kaliyug, and while searching internet about asexual reproduction in animals I found that peacocks reproduce sexually. I just don't believe how are they able to convince those scientists/doctors/engineers coming to conferences at Abu on this ...
ex-l wrote:I do not know if Sukhi has looked at any of the study of historical and philosophical revision within the Brahma Kumari movement that we have done but we discovered that the Seniors have falsified most of their major histories. There was no God Shiva until after 1950, Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60 in 1936, there was no incarnation of Shiva in 1936, it was said in the Murlis or equivalent that WWII, 1950, 1976, mid-80s were all going to be Destruction ... and so on.

No, I have not read all this yet ... but would like to, could you provide me with the links ...

With Kind Regards to All,
Sukhi :-)
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ex-l

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post20 Feb 2009

Was Dadi Janki specifically "punished heavily"? Has she specifically suffered any more than anyone else of her generation today? It strikes me that she lives a fairly privileged existence at the god of the BKs expense. Senior's classes are not going to help you.

It sounds like, perhaps, there are other issues under the surface that, as Tom says, you really need a bit of expert advice on (... cultural, familial, body image etc) but experience is a good teacher. It sounds like to me, you suffer if you do and you suffer if you do not ... so you may as well try it and learn from first hand experience. You may just be using the BKs as an excuse to "have your cake and eat it", your husband, home and lifestyle but no commitment or return.

We have a forum on BKWSU history and old original documents from the 30s and 40s in the Library section where you can see things for yourself.

The most important essence is that they faked the history, they did 20 years of "no Shiva only Lekhraj Kirpalani as God Brahma", he was not 60 in 1936, they hid WWII, 1950, 1976 and elsewhere as failed predictions of Destruction, "God" did know know what the Jews were and thought they were Islamic, "God" got the population of the world wrong, and the leadership has faked (and got wrong) the autobiographies of the other now deceased Seniors ... and so on.

In short, can you really trust these people and what they teach?

When you add that to all the rest of scandals ... may be buying some nice scented candles, burning some essential oils, turning the light down low and just getting laid does not sound like such a bad idea. You will need to try it a few times until you both get the hang of it, so don't give up too soon.

bk-j

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post20 Feb 2009

os Sukhi

I see you are much more relaxed and will make a decision very soon and possibly a plan forward.

The Reiki you are doing will greatly help you in releasing tension and pressure on your chakra points and will open up in make the correct decision. By doing Reiki you have aquired more power than some surrendered souls.

Remember Baba loves you no matter what decision you make. Once you belong to GOD, you will always belong to him no matter what the situation is. He does NOT punish his children, but there to guide you. You have a role to play and you are playing it accurately.

Many BLESSINGS.

All the best, good wishes for Shiv Ratri.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post20 Feb 2009

Hey Sukhi,

Wow, you've certainly come a long way in just a few days. Sounds to me like you've already made the decision and the healing will now happen as you go along. Do remember OK, that sex is only part of life - it is not all of life (although on one level it does create life!).

Warm wishes xx P
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eromain

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post20 Feb 2009

Dear Sukhi,

I remember how difficult it was working out what to do with my feelings of love for the first person I fell in love with. I was a BK and so was she. I had no desire to sleep with her. We agreed that we wanted to be married in the Golden Age, and we were very happy with that. The difficulty came when the Seniors found out and responded to us as if our love was a bad thing. For them, it could not be love - it had to be lust and attachment. They treated us as if it was a dirty little secret, a thing to be ashamed of.

We had been planning to do exactly nothing with it, we were both totally committed to our BK lives and we lived in different countries. It was love, unconsummated and pretty much un-enacted in any way accept for a letter every month or so, in which the only thing we talked about was Gyan. It was much the same feeling I had for Baba and indeed for Dadi Janki, so if my feelings for this Sister were wrong then I for one did not know what love was. And even though I was extremely innocent, naive and unsophisticated, I could see that the Seniors were making a complete mess of managing us. Instead of making us feel so bad, they should have praised us for the way did not let our feelings distract us from our commitments.

I concluded that I had no choice but to trust love, to trust that I was a being of love and that if doing that involved lessons then I should be humble enough to learn. Being frozen into doing nothing, risking nothing, trying nothing was not virtue, it was not purity it was sterility, it was cowardice. I decided that believing I was a soul meant I had to trust my intuition. It was the same intuition that told me this was God. I remember thinking that if my heart led me out of Gyan, I really should have the courage to follow it and if I did, and Gyan was right for me, it would lead me back to Gyan as well.

Following my heart meant nothing in practice with that Sister, except refusing to agree that we had done anything wrong. All we had done was feel love for each other. If that was wrong, then the whole of the Golden Age was wrong.

Well, nothing physical ever did happen with that Sister and we stayed in contact for many years - decades in fact until her death last year. When I left Gyan she cried, and then a few years after she left as well. She travelled half way round the world to be at my wedding. And she sent t-shirts for my little sons when they were born. And when she died, I wrote to her mother to tell her that her daughter was always and will always be loved by me.

I fell in love with another fellow BK and I consciously allowed myself to spend time with her. And when the relationship grew physical, I let it happen because whilst I could now see that I was breaking rules I was not convinced where the virtue stopped and the vice began. By that point, I did not trust the rules. I knew at the time that the price would be high, and it was. I was prepared to make mistakes and pay for them rather than do nothing. Using one’s own mind is not a sin, it is an obligation. Losing one's virginity in Gyan is an extremely difficult business and for many young and vulnerable people it is frequently a dangerous time. For me, it is the thing I am most proud of in my whole Brahmin life, except for the way I left.

My heart goes out to you and I want to offer my support for whatever you decide to do. I am extremely happily married and I do not have the slightest trace of guilt about my sexual relationship with my wife but that does not mean I have any right to think I know what is best for you.

The truth is that love comes with pain, and growth comes with pain, and learning comes with pain. But that doesn’t mean you are doing anything wrong. Here is what I think: Never turn away from the love in front of you. And never let anyone or anything tell you to. It is for you to decide what is right for yourself. But being frozen by fear is not spirituality.

The one thing I like about the BK theology is that we are not created by God, we are independent beings and have been such as long as he has. It is your right and obligation to think for yourself and choose for yourself. It is a little bit silly to feel guilt for something you freely choose. And so what if they turn out to be right and you don’t get a big palace? Who gives a **** about that? I would rather have my life now, with my wife and my boys, than all the births of the Golden Age. And I would rather be a real human being than a little puppet, and get rewarded for sitting on the fence.

I have no idea if the BK god is really God. Even if I still believed in God, which I don’t, the question would be irrelevant. The question for me is does he reflect my values, does he speak to the highest in me? The answer is, no. I not only disagree with him, I actually think he is morally inferior to me. I think he is small-minded and small-hearted. I do not mind if he judges me and finds me guilty, I do the same for him so I can hardly complain. The point is I am not concerned how I look in his eyes. I am concerned how I look in my eyes, and the people I truly look up to. The wondrous thing about free will is that I get to live my life my way and choose my values and choose my mistakes.

The BK god speaks peace, but so does the American military. His action has been to come and start a war inside of people. He has set off a war inside of you. A war between your love of “God” and your love of your husband, between your so-called spiritual nature and your physical nature, between you and nature!, between your body and your thoughts. He has made you afraid of yourself. He has planted in you images of self-destruction that he wants you to bring to mind whenever you think of sleeping with your husband. He has sadistic tendencies. He is complicit in suicide. Indeed you have to wonder if they constitute manslaughter.

Daily programming for years of vulnerable young people so that they want to kill themselves and sometimes do if they contemplate sex or have sex. Am I saying he is not God? No, he could be God, I do not know; all I am saying is that whether he is or not, I reject him. I do better without his advice and I am certainly not afraid of his judgment. Dharam Raj? Dharam bullshiit. The guilt and fear that is paralyzing you has been programmed into you by listening daily to the Murli. I am sorry about that, and unfortunately it seems to take a long time to recover from. Morality and spirituality consist in freely chosen actions and thoughts.

To the extent we have been exposed to this programming our capacity for free choice has been diminished. Even if it genuinely is the case that purity is good (and I personally don’t believe this), you are not being pure. You are abstaining from sex because you have been programmed to feel like death whenever you think about it. That is not the same as purity. There is nothing spiritual in this aspect of BK teaching. Is there genuine good in parts of the BK life and beliefs – definitely - but not in this area. In this area they have badly gone wrong. The BKs haven’t made you pure they have just incapacitated you.

You have to re-learn thinking for yourself and feeling for yourself. You have to take responsibility for yourself, and allow yourself to live your life and accept that you will make mistakes, but we do not get to know what all the mistakes will be before we make them. For me, celibacy was a much bigger mistake than sex was. But, hey, you are a good person and you will learn from your mistakes whatever they will be. Any reasonable god would ask no more of you.

And as for the unreasonable ones, perhaps life is already hard enough without us also trying to fulfil their impossible, unhealthy and downright sadistic demands. And this is a god who has already proved himself wrong on some very important issues. He has been wrong about when the world will end, about how many souls there are and other things you think an omniscient being would know. I ask you – what kind of Father does not know how many children he has?

I hope that you choose what is best for you, but I will be honest that I hope you choose in your own time, and only if it is right for you, life instead of death. Sex is creation. Sex is life. I feel sorry for all those BKs who will never know it, and will never know the incomparable joy of having their own children. BK celibacy (I will not call it purity) is about death, not life. It is not right that people your age should spend their youth preparing for death. BKs theories of Destruction are already discredited, and if they have half the spirituality they claim, they would admit as such. I was a BK back in the 1970s when Destruction was supposed to come. People gave up their jobs, cashed in their savings – I very nearly did not study for my exams. We were all so sure, and we were all so wrong. But hey, tomorrow is another day.

Some researchers once interviewed a large group of very old people – people who were literally on their death beds – people who were about to go and meet their maker. They asked them if they had any common regrets – had they done enough charity, been good enough, done enough interesting things etc. They nearly all said they wished they had had more sex.

Big hugs
Eugene

PS If you decide to go for it make sure that you commit yourself to celebrating it. Decide ahead of time that it will be an act of spiritual, life-affirming, love-creating celebration, something that you have to be proud of. And if you let us know when it is going to be we will all break open a bottle of champagne on your behalf at the designated moment :D.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Hi - I am a newcomer and want help with my relationship

Post20 Feb 2009

Eromain / Eugene

There are times when certain posts touch me to the very core. Thank you for your post, to me this is the truth of all truths because it is an honest account of one's experiences in life and shows every bit of compassion and love as love truly be. Thank you for being my teacher today.

Posts like this should be compiled into book form called "The Life of an ex-Yogi" and it will be a besteller.
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