Shocked about this Page

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exbrahmin

friends or family of a BK

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Shocked about this Page

Post22 Feb 2009

I am shocked, to say the least, of the discovery of this web page. I am involved with the organization for some time and a sister of mine is an active member. Her change has been immense but at least it appeared that she was happy although sometimes I had my doubts. Now that I am learning more details, some of which I thought about before, I am very scared about her continuing in the organization. Is there any advice from any of you?

Every day she is going deeper into the philosophy of BK and I am afraid that it may be too late. Talking her out of it is out of the question. She would hate me if I even mentioned the possibility. Any help would be highly appreciated.

Terry

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

Hi exbrahmin

You are not the first to ask this question on this forum. You will probably get a lot of advice thrown at you here, some will make more sense than others. One thing that I know for sure - people become BK s for many reasons, but mainly it is the experience had, or the hope of the experience, in meditation/Yoga. The rest follows. They remain BKs for different reasons. If you read through the topic - How did we fool ourselves into becoming BKs - you may get a broader perspective too.

You cannot just remove someone against their will of course. But if alternative and equally strong experiences can replace those, then the person can naturally leave it all behind. Actual distancing from the BKs alone can help, but is not enough - also needed is regular healthy company with others, and alternative activities that also offer depth and learning of the inner life and the emotional life (which she is now exploring).

I would suggest looking to encourage her to spend time on things she has always had a deep love and interest in, to build on those. If she can have real experiences, there is less likelihood of using the BKs as a substitution (e.g. you know they actively encourage the transference of emotions like love, to Baba, so encourage social activity that lets her love real people, be with people she loves, and doing things she loves. Raja Yoga may then just remain a fringe activity which falls away as Life's richness opens up for her).

You need to comprehend what her attraction is, and her character. Many of us here on the site are intellectually and philosophically inclined, but many people are not. They respond emotionally, so words don't cut through. They can become defensive and don't listen.

If your Sister is intellectually driven, then facts and figures and argument may make her think again. If not, she will close up and not listen at all. But even then, intellectual people are often the best at justifying anything to themselves. But if she is a mature adult her journey is now her own. You can help ensure she doesn't lose perspective, and as you are ex-BK let her know it is not a closed world, and exit is always possible.
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joel

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

Hi Exbrahmin,

I have no particular advice. This is as good a crowd as any to hang out with. We'll read whatever you write about whatever you read here and touches you, and write whenever the spirit (Spirit(TM)) moves us.

Okay, here's some advice: live fully and find happiness in your life.

You cannot be responsible for your Sister. You can talk to her tho, directly, maybe as no other can. And that will tend to awaken something in her, some part of her that wants a real connection, not phony smily-all-the-time goodie-goodie communication, which can be found plentifully in many religions outside the BKs.
Ciao,
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paulkershaw

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

Welcome to the forum exbrahmin.

To reply to your thread I'd say the most important thing you can do in ths situation is to always keep YOUR balance and keep your PERSPECTIVE at all times, in this way your Sister will always be able to see another viewpoint and 'way'. I remember my family being strong enough to do this and it assisted me a great deal, in retrospect.
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ex-l

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

I agree with what terry has said here and remember myself when I first became involved. There are general "cult advice newsletters" in the Library section. Its very difficult to watch, knowing what is going on, but there is another element which you should consider. It is not just about your Sister being sucked up into the BKWSU, it is also about you and your family ... your feelings and emotions, the burden the family will exprience losing your Sister.

For sure, 99.99%, you will lose your Sister and the Sister you used to have will become merely a "service yukti (device)". At the core of the practise, the old personality is separated off and becomes something "impure", to be avoided (along with all the attached worldly relatives and friends) and is actively 'destructable'. Most likely, it is only going to be rolled out again where it is useful for the sake of "service" or until, finally, the BK personally cracks and falls apart.

So, for you and your family, it is like dealing her death and having a zombie come back in return. You know she wont be happy eating your food, talking about normal things, doing normal activities ... likely even if she is present, she will be spacing out and acting as a robotic BK.

I am afraid I am pretty pessimistic and highly practical at this point. My first concern would always be for you, the rest of family and protecting it ...

    Firstly, to cut her off from any financial sources or interest in the present or future, because you know where it will go
    Secondly, to inform the rest of the family what the Brahma Kumaris are really about (the hardcore Knowledge not the positive thinking) in order to avoid them being sucked in even to the level of a service front. That is to lay out what the Knoweldge is ... the inconsistencies in The Knowledge AND the abuses.
    Thirdly, protect any children from her if she appears to be proscelyting to them.
Personally, I find the Brahma Kumaris a particularly deceitful and persistent religion and so, like dealing with any addicts, you should make very clear YOUR terms of engagement and stick to them, i.e. you will always be there for her BUT not to support the Brahma Kumari addiction. When she is ready to leave you will help ... but you wont help sustain them.

That should be the same for all your family at the level of conversation. Gently but firmly make it clear what you will talk about and what you will not talk about. If she refuses to look at how they twisted and changed The Knowledge, I do not think that there will be any benefit in arguing with her. Far better for everyone just to draw a line around her and refuse to sucked in to talking about Gyan, e.g. family, yes; Knowledge or serve, no.

It will probably be difficult for your mother etc on to really accept what is going on, so it is she and they that probably need your help most. Contrary to what I have said above, (and perhaps the advice of so-called cult experts) I do think that if you Sister is sucked in and looks like she is becoming brainwashed that it would be very good if you family goes in private to the center or zone-in-charge and expresses themselves in no uncertain terms. That would be like loving the addicts by driving the pushers out of the district. If it angers you, put that anger to good use publicising the BKWSU. These center-in-charges should be made to think and see what they do to families.

It might be good for us to try and track the "lifetime" of a Brahma Kumari follower and the different stages they go through elsewhere.
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enlightened

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

Hi Exbrahmin,

I wish my Brother/Sister had stopped me from going to this organisation years ago, but I was only a child under 10 years old and they too were only children. So, who was to know of the long term damage this would have on me. I've had to suffer the consequences of more than 25 years of conditioning, verbal, sexual and financial abuse by members of this organisation and, believe you and me, I wish that someone had saved me when I was a child. Even if it was by force.

I say this because the long term psychological damage of being involved so deeply with this organisation is probably a lot more difficult, if not impossible, to overcome than if someone had forced me to stop going when I was under the age of 10.

Depending on your Sister's age, my advice would be that you do everything in your power to prevent her from getting too deeply involved. I say this because if, in the future, she does get too involved and then has to suffer the consequences of that, she cannot turn around to you and say, "well, you did not warn me". Try and leave this website open when she is around or get a friend or another family member to show her the website.

Let her see what it has done to people like me. I don't even feel like living anymore because of the impact it has had on my life. I feel sad, alone, dysfunctional, suicidal, cannot get a job, everywhere I go, people use and abuse me even now and I am over 35 years old. People take advantage of me and my naiveness. This organisation does not equip you with the social skills to function in society. They only have a limited viewpoint, a limited vision. For a child to have to grow up in this kind of environment is awful. The long term damage is beyond anyone's imagination.

I am over 35 years old now, never had a partner in my life, have been abused by members of this organisation, still celibate, probably cannot have children now, cannot find anyone who understands me or what I've been through, don't have friends who can understand and support me. Believe you and me, save your Sister before it's too late is all I can say, and this is coming from someone who has had first hand experience of being deeply involved with this organisation.

It's much harder, if not impossible and expensive, to remove the long term damage when you're older. Most cases of this nature have to be dealt with professionally, that doesn't come cheap and it can be extremely challenging to find a good psychotherapist with whom you can work with to sort out this damage.

Furthermore, undergoing therapy is also like a roller coaster ride and may make you feel suicidal at times as the pain can be overwhelming.

SAVE YOURSELF AND YOUR SISTERBEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!! PLEASE ...

Yours,

enlightened
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ex-l

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

enlightened wrote:I wish my Brother/Sister had stopped me from going to this organisation years ago, but I was only a child under 10 years old and they too were only children ... Depending on your Sister's age, my advice would be that you do everything in your power to prevent her from getting too deeply involved. I say this [so] in the future ... she cannot turn around to you and say, "well, you did not warn me".

OK. There you have it from a first hand account.

Perhaps you could write a post specifically to the Sister in question, enlightment ... and others like her.

We can enoy all the stimulating chit-chat here at our our leisure ... in the back of my mind and always the 10,000s of young virgins they are lining up for the next generation of BK footsoldiers who are basically in slavery. Sweet slavery may be ... but with no way out.
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tom

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

enlightened wrote:I don't even feel like living anymore because of the impact it has had on my life. I feel sad, alone, dysfunctional, suicidal, cannot get a job, everywhere I go, people use and abuse me even now and I am over 35 years old.

Dear enlightened, your post made me very sad because this depressive mood you allow yourself to stuck into, is just what the Seniors wish for all ex-BKs. I heard with my own ears talking them about Sister x or Brother y who were seen by BKs a bid depressive after leaving Gyan, "that they were not doing well, because they left Baba". This is what they think and say without having the smallest thought of responsibility.

We all are paying so or so our tax for having been naive idiots staying so long with the BKs. Never mind. We are not criminals in need of repentance. We have been abused sweetly, we were the voluntarily victims, now it is time for us to live our lives fully.The best revenge is to live a happy life.

I experienced in my life, and in some close friends lives, that we human beings have the ability to make ourselves terminally ill. At the same time and with the same unknown secret methods, we have the power to heal us from the worst diseases.

Who says that you can not have any children any more? Come on, you are at the age when ladies from G8 countries just start to think of marriage and children. The best age to start a life for two and look after a child with care and responsibility. Heal yourself Sister.

Some help could be found in the website of Dr. Zhi Gang Sha author of many important books about the healing power of the soul, with many gifts of free book downloads, soul songs for healing and free services with teleclasses. His book "The Four Keys to Energizing Your Body, Mind and Spirit" helped me very much. I would also advice you to start with Tai Chi Chuan practice. Do please something good for yourself and open yourself to the nice surprises life has prepared for you.
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enlightened

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

Dear enlightened, your post made me very sad because this depressive mood you allow yourself to stuck into, is just what the Seniors wish for all ex-BKs.

Tom believe you and me I am not making any of this up and have no desire to be in this depressive mood. I am suffering from depression, and believe you and me, whilst theories are easy to understand when you are suffering from depression, they are in no way easy for someone like myself to put into practice no matter how much I would like to. To me, it seems like no one understands what depression is, be it family, friends or some people on this forum unless people have gone through it themselves.
Who says that you can not have any children any more? Come on, you are at the age when ladies from G8 countries just start to think of marriage and children. The best age to start a life for two and look after a child with care and responsibility. Heal yourself Sister.

It's easy said than done Tom, I don't think you have any idea of the complexities that I have had to go through and the state I am in at the moment and that to come out of those complexities is 'not like going to your auntie's home' and it's not an overnight process. I am like a teenager in a 38+ body and believe you and me, that is an extremely frustrating place to be in for any human being.

Did you live your childhood, adolescent as well as 20 plus years of your adult life under the influence of the BK organisation from the 1970's? If not, then you won't have a clue what I am going through.
Some help could be found in the website of Dr. Zhi Gang Sha author of many important books about the healing power of the soul, with many gifts of free book downloads, soul songs for healing and free services with teleclasses. His book "The Four Keys to Energizing Your Body, Mind and Spirit" helped me very much. I would also advice you to start with Tai Chi Chuan practice. Do please something good for yourself and open yourself to the nice surprises life has prepared for you.

Thanks for this constructive advice. I shall explore this.

Regards
Enlightened
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ex-l

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

enlightened wrote:Did you live your childhood and adolescent life under the influence of the BK organisation in the 1970's? If not, then you won't have a clue what I am going through.

It might be tough to do so ... but please, please spell it out for the rest of us.
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Mr Green

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

All I can offer you is always be there for her, always have love for her ... but remember she is now under a powerful influence, and hopefully one day will be free again.

But you have no right over her life, this is a fact the BKs are famous for exploiting.

Really, all the best.
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desi_exbk

ex-BK

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

enlightened wrote:Did you live your childhood, adolescent as well as 20 plus years of your adult life under the influence of the BK organisation from the 1970's?

Yes. Ditto! Childhood and good part of adult life ... from 1980s. You are not alone. There are other folks - like you and me - on this website who were child BKs. How did I cope with my life, you ask? Well, everytime I had choice to make, I CHOSE LIFE. I wanted to experience life. I wanted to live and see what this is all about. I wanted to grow old!

Please let us know what you are going through.

Also, If I may suggest, can you take a brief break and stop thinking yourself as a Soul! Indulge in things ... enjoy food, start dating if possible, take a class, take up a hobby.

Since you are living in the West (which I am assuming) you have better support systems than say, in India. Utilize state/government sponsored programs. I am sure others in this forum should be able to point you to them.

Please, choose life!

john morgan

ex-BK

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

Hello exbrahmin,

I note that you say you have been involved with this organisation for some time. By that do you mean that you are a BK?

    Did your Sister follow you into knowledge?

    If you are involved yourself then why are you so concerned about your Sisters involvement?

    Why specifically are you scared of your Sister continuing in the organisation?

    Once you have explained these issues could you please say what you mean when you say "too late?"
Apologies for not jumping on the bandwagon, it is only when you have clarified these questions that I could attempt to give you the advice which you seek, although it may be that once you have become very clear on these issues you may no longer need advice.
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tom

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post23 Feb 2009

Dear enlightened,

I hope, that you have put your rings, badges, Shiv Baba posters, stickers, photos from Brahma Baba and from the Seniors, traffic control songs, Madhuban music cassettes, meditation commentaries and CDs, together with your Madhuban shawls, saris, kurtas and Madhuban t-shirts away. Anything which would trigger your remembrance and addiction would prolong your healing process. I hope, that you don't do the usual way of BK meditation any more and stay away from the center which for sure would trigger your channeling to the spirit guides of the BKs.

I hope also, that you take distance from your beloved BK friends, even from those who with good intention want to stay in touch with you. This relationship will also not help you. Just like a recovering alcoholic should stay away from favorite pubs and old friends.

If you have been forcing yourself without being ready to date with a nice man or went out and met lokik friends and came shocked and frustrated home, feeling yourself like a stranger to this world and naive like a child, take also for a while distance from all of them, retreat, until you get healed. Lokik friends' thought pattern and conversation habits may come too strange and too rude to you if you are not ready yet to confront the real world, which could cause a reverse effect and you could feel depressed.

I know indeed some center niwassi BKs who are because of their families since their early childhood grew up on Dadis' laps. Although for a lokik observer these guys seem to live today a relatively "normal" life of a celibate and vegetarian yogi having friends from lokik contact persons, without missing much from social life like occasionally cinemas, cafes, sports and holidays, they could not manage until now to rescue their mindset from the BKs. They never wanted to. You however, have been so strong and have liberated yourself from the BK slavery, only need some time and professional help to digest your past BK life without blaming yourself until you adjust yourself to your new life and enjoy it fully.

Reading the posts of this forum, starting from the earliest ones, and writing to us whatever comes to your mind, will help you as it helped me to recover fully.

For noncommercial professional help here are the links to the websites of the two most important organizations concerned with cult like organizations:

FECRIS (European Federation of Centres Research and Information on Sectarianism) http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f22.html

F.A.C.T.net (Fight Against Coercive Tactics Network) http://www.factnet.org/ on which homepage you will find in the index,

    Guide to Cult Recovery
    * The Cult Healing Hub
    * Cult Discussion Board
    * Cult-Help Experts
    * Cult-Help Organizations
    * Cult Support Groups
    * How to be an Activist
    * Recommended Books
    * Internet Resources on Cults
    * Cult Discussion Board
and links to many interesting articles for all cult victims, like this one from a former cult member advising to sue the Seniors of the cult today:
“Twenty five years of helping cult victims has thoroughly convinced me that the wrongdoing by destructive cults will stop ONLY when ALL profit is removed from that wrongdoing by holding the cult’s top executives PERSONALLY accountable before the law! If you or a loved one has been harmed by a cult, get a lawyer and sue the cult’s senior executives today. They are ultimately responsible for the harm that the cult has caused you and your loved ones. By getting full legal and financial restitution from the cult’s ill gotten profits you will not only help make your life whole again you will also do the most effective thing possible to prevent the cult from doing the same harm to others. Be encouraged, there are now many legal precedents established on cult abuse and mind control. Destructive cults have already paid former cult members hundreds of millions of dollars either though secret out-of-court settlements, pre-trial settlements or through enforced court judgments. Stop letting your former cult keep victimizing you. Use the law to go get your life made whole again and to help stop the wrongdoing, I did.”

Lawrence Wollersheim co-founder of Factnet, former cult member. Was paid a total of 9.2 plus million dollars in court judgments by the Scientology cult.

Dear enlightened, write us about your observations.You are not alone.
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enlightened

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Re: Shocked about this Page

Post25 Feb 2009

Dear enlightened, your post made me very sad because this depressive mood you allow yourself to stuck into, is just what the Seniors wish for all ex-BKs. I heard with my own ears talking them about Sister x or Brother y who were seen by BKs a bid depressive after leaving Gyan, "that they were not doing well, because they left Baba". This is what they think and say without having the smallest thought of responsibility.

Dear Tom

I was just thinking about what you said above. I think that if I was pretend to be all OK and happy etc, then I would not even need to share anything on this forum. My experience is real and it is in the now. If that means that I am in a depressive mood, then that is what I need to share. If the BK organisation is to make any changes within, then maybe being honest and truthful about our real experiences may make them realise if not today, tomorrow as to the impact the information and dogma can have on a very young child. If I were to share that, "oh, I am so happy in my life after leaving BKs, I feel so great, I don't have any problems", then I would be lying and they won't be able to see the damage that some of the things they impart and impose can have on a very young child.

They also need to know that people like myself who have been sexually, verbally, mentally and financially abused throughout all those years have had to suppress their traumas and feelings and have had no one to turn to or no one to talk to. I only started to talk about everything in my late thirties and that too was with a therapist who just came into my life by chance. All those years, I just suppressed all my emotions to the extent that my personality kind of felt numb or dead. It crushed my personality to such an extent that instead of it becoming a process of self discovery, it became a process of self-destruction to such an extent that i became like a zombi.

They need to know that. I cannot hide or pretend about what I am going through. It is so so real!

On another note, I would like to thank you and everyone else who have shared or given all the other advice or info. It is highly appreciated during these challenging times.

Best wishes
Enlightened
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