I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
  • Message
  • Author

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post28 Apr 2009

Hi all.

I have just recently started using a computer after many years, so am having a bit of difficulty posting on the site.

I registered about a week ago and, would you believe, have been going through fears about wrong actions since then ... even though it is about 13 years since I have been a practicing BK. Really does a truly almighty merciful God establish him/herself through fear? I identify with so many things I have read here over the past few months, yet I wonder whether I have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

The focus on virtues etc has to be a positive thing. And I had such amazingly wonderful experiences in meditation for a certain amount of time at least. Most of the people I met were lovely. I have bad feelings towards a few. Ultimately I could not believe that these people were the highest souls and, once I doubted the truth of any of it, I found it hard to accept it was God; afterall the premise was that God is truth, so how could some things be not quite true?

One BK I discussed my feelings with was able to accept it while not believing everything. Another told me that BKs were not perfect yet my expectations were too high. Perhaps I am too extreme but to me something is true or it is not especially when it comes to God. I was particularly upset before I left by the lack of empathy and compassion I encountered. Since leaving I have experienced more care and compassion from people who do not consider themselves to be higher than others.

Thank you ex-l for your message of greeting. I hope I manage to send this successfully. Is there any directions on site on how to use it or is everyone technologically adept these days?
User avatar

leela

ex-BK

  • Posts: 66
  • Joined: 04 Dec 2008

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post29 Apr 2009

Hello starchild, and welcome. It's nice to hear a new voice. I am not a great technological wiz either, but trial and error seems to work well enough. You've made it through the registration process successfully. I hope you will stay for a while and experience the magic of the forum. It's never too late to reflect on our BK past.

My last days were in 1998, and I have only been revisiting that time of my life for a few months now. I have been amazed at what I have uncovered. I hope you find it as rewarding. Reading is one thing; posting is quite another. All the best.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10450
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post29 Apr 2009

starchild wrote:Is there any directions on site on how to use it or is everyone technologically adept these days?

Hi there, and welcome onboard.

Don't worry ... those feels are very common. Many if not all of us were mentally constraint in exactly the same way. Then we started to dig in and it is surprising what came out. "Better out that in" goes the old saying ... better to get it ALL out of your system than leave it inside festering. Air it out in the open, give it a good shake and see what falls out of it. Yes, you will feel better ... if only to discover that the sky does not fall on your head.

There are guides and howtos in the Admin forum and the FAQs up at the top right. Failing that, do a Google for "phpbb3 user guide" or try a link like, "here".

It would be really good to get the heart of your experience and document for others what you experienced. This is not "negative" or "slander". This is reality and reality is good and healing. What the BKWSU needs, and is getting through this forum, is a big reality check. I am afraid that its leaderships has had their own way in creating their own reality to live off for too long and the work we have done here is to prove it is not all as we were told. Seriously so.

BK_Chicken_Little.jpg
This way up?! (Click to view)
BK_Chicken_Little.jpg (22.89 KiB) Viewed 9572 times

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post29 Apr 2009

Thanks to Leela and ex-l for the greeting.

I will relate more of my experience in my next post. I managed to post so that's that obstacle over with, and the sky did not fall down.

I would be very surprised if someone at BKs Admin is not monitoring this site. Should we be worried? About speaking honestly about our experiences and feelings. Also I was slightly concerned to read about someone "outing" a contributor on another site.

I am not sure that I want to be recognized just now, so I suppose I will have to be circumspect about how I relate my story just at the moment. As I said, I only have bad feelings around a few.

And, yes, ex-l, better out than in. There must be something wrong about having any fear about speaking or questioning. I have no desire to slander or defame anyone.

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post29 Apr 2009

starchild wrote: am not sure that I want to be recognized just now so I suppose I will have to be circumspect about how
I relate my story just at the moment.

And a warm welcome from me to you Starchild.

re: your uncertainty about what you write;

May I suggest you freely express yourself using a draft email or a word processing page. Let the passion flow, express it all without inhibiton, to yourself at least; and then in a day or two come back to it, edit it in the cool light of a new day, then copy/paste into a post here? That will give you time to process both emotionally and rationally whatever it is that needs be.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post29 Apr 2009

Thank you for that advice, Terry. I will write my experience for myself and then relate it on the site. The reason I will do so is that even reading experiences on the site was helpful to me.

I hope that it will also be helpful to me. I have spoken in therapy something of my experiences but it is different when there are people listening who have had similar experiences. It may be useful to someone else, although some of the stories I have heard sound really tragic. Especially the child sexual abuse, those who were children joined in by their parents, and the people who became so despairing that they committed suicide. I was unaware until I came across this site that things were quite so bad as that.

I have read that the Sister in London Ranjana committed suicide in London in early 1994. I was living in a bhavan in London at that time and knew nothing about it at all. Although I must have known that Sister at least to see.

I was in London during 1994 and, although I was in a distressed state myself at that time, I am incredulous that such a tragedy was kept secret; if it was.

I am sorry to read today that some of the people whose posts I enjoyed such as Mr. Green and Enlightened have left the forum. Hope they might return and wish them the best with everything.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10450
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post30 Apr 2009

starchild wrote:I would be very surprised if someone at BKs Admin is not monitoring this site. Should we be worried? About speaking honestly about our experiences and feelings. Also I was slightly concerned to read about someone "outing" a contributor on another site.

To be honest, I reckon that by now the BKWSU have given up doing so. We have been around for, what, 3 years now. Some maniacs tried to crush us with a legal action and a full on editing war at the Wikipedia. They lost. The cooler heads in the BKWSU appear to have signalled a retreat and to focus onto their own stuff.

Whereas I am sure individual BKs do drop in from time to time, I doubt the leadership bother any more. They exist. We exist. I doubt they even send us "positive thoughts" any more. They have a bigger PR budget than we do and more free labor to expend ... and reckon they are empowered by God and that "victory is assured".

As for the BK supporting backstabbers, the "bad pennies" or the "leaky buckets", I think they have all been dealt with too now but it does happens. Its understandable. This forum raises high emotions that reach into people's deepest and often unresolved parts. Purely human elements come into play. People think of, and do things to, others in a manner they would never do if they thought they would have to see them face to face.

So, no, I would not get too personal with anyone but please do document yours and others experience honestly. Its sad to say but that is the nature of the internet. If you are concerned, my suggestion would be to to document events 'in the third person' (as if writing about someone else) and mix your own experiences with others you know.

Where there are particularly serious abuses, it is probably worth identifying the perpetrators so as to defend others. It may be that others have had the same experience. I discovered when speaking to another ex-BK who had suffered similar abuses from the same BK. This particular BK was a user of others for personal gain that had nothing to do with service or Gyan. Of course, the BKWSU mental system defends abusers and disempowers victims (or at least did ... has it changed?).

All the leaders of the BKWSU are "public figures" now and are heavily promoted as "public figures" who are subject to different legal grounds than ordinary people. Its possible to discuss their actions freely. In fact, given the nature of their claims and the effects on other lives, it is in the "public interest" to do so.

Its only by folks speaking out that we can start to gather data and investigate.
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1877
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post30 Apr 2009

Hi there, Starchild. I am still around, just changing my perspectives and reasons for everything.

Welcome to this place :D.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post30 Apr 2009

Hi Mr. Green. I am glad you are still there. You have made me smile. I have skimmed through some of your posts and would be interested in exploring some of the points you made at some time.

I am a newcomer and am beginning to find my way around using the site. I have not worked out how to insert quotes to reference particular posts yet, so I just have to address them manually until I work that one out.

Hi ex-l,

I feel, in one way, like telling my story straight out but because of specific happenings (with my family not the BKs), I would be recognizable to those who knew me at the time. I do not have any serious abuse to report. It was much more subtle and a huge 'lack of care' issue.

I do not feel in any way that I should not speak out. I do not intend to relate anything that is untrue and, in fact, until now I have not felt any great animosity towards the people in the BKs. That, of course, could change as I tell my tale. Nah, I hope not. It will not do me any good to be getting all upset and enraged. I do notice that it is making a difference to me (shifts happening), since I started posting. More of which anon.

I perhaps will relate my story bit by bit and, hopefully, it is not too boring. Just press the down arrow if you get bored. See, I am getting used to this computer already.

I was living in a squat in London duiing the 80's and, at a low ebb, I came across an ad in alternative London magazine for the 7 Day Course. I went to Shakti Bhavan in St. Gabriels Road for 7 consecutive days, and a lovely Sister gave me the course. I got tapes which I really liked listening to and was delighted with the concept of The Cycle (at that time). Having been brought up in a strict Catholic environment, I liked the neatness of the whole package. Also liked the hypnotic quality of the meditation tapes.

On the seventh day, my teacher brought me over to Baba Bhavan where a senior-ish Sister was, well known in London. She gave me a sweet and a little book called Jewels of Knowledge. So far, all good. I was very impressed with the atmosphere and the Sisters in white floating about the place. They invited me to come on Tuesday evenings for meditations, which I did.

I had already been a vegetarian for many years but thought the onion and garlic thing a bit extreme. It was only a few years later, when I had given up onions and garlic, that I realised I must have been stinking the place out as I used to grab a homous kebab on my way from work to there. Funnily enough, I lost my taste for onions and garlic for good when I did give them up, much as I had lost my taste for animal protein when I stopped with that. (Not trying to make out I as pure as the driven snow, I did go back to drinking and smoking when I left Gyan).

Anyway, I duly attended on the Tuesday evenings, did not like the drishti from the gaddhi part. Laughed when a Western Sister befriended me and invited me to attend 4 am meditation. No way am I ever going to get up at that unearthly hour!! Little did I know ...

I kept going to the Tuesday evening classes until I met Sudesh. By this time I had thought of the dinosaurs and asked her. She told me not to be concerning myself with things that were nothing to do with me. Very cross; very strict. I felt like I was back in the convent with the wicked nuns. Decided I would not go back there. When it came to toli I, as I had done up until then, I kept my eyes down. Well, she would not let go of the toli until I looked up.

I do not know how many of you know Sister Sudesh but she has a bit of a stare in one eye. She transfixed me with drishti. Frightened the living daylights out of me. I got up off the floor clutching my toli vowing never to return. Ran for the tube and did not return for a considerable time.

I have to go and do some work now. Is it OK to relate in this way?

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post30 Apr 2009

starchild wrote:Is it OK to relate in this way?

Hey, you defined this topic, so it's your baby!

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post01 May 2009

In my last post on this topic I made a reference to Sudesh's drishti. It was not intended as a slur, more a way of illustrating the experience was scary and yet I still ended up getting very involved.

I am mindful that others experiences were really serious and I feel especially for those who did not even choose to join themselves but were brought by their parents.

I eventually went back to the meditation after a relationship breakup when I felt very hurt and disillusioned. I became more deeply involved when I decided to go to Madhuban. I was very happy with it for a while. The experiences I had during meditation were more wonderful than anything I could ever have imagined. Unfortunately when it all went wrong, it was the other end of the spectrum.

It has taken me this many years to examine the issues around this.

I will be out of coverage for a few days. Have a nice weekend you all.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10450
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post02 May 2009

starchild wrote:In my last post on this topic I made a reference to Sudesh's drishti. It was not intended as a slur ...

It no big deal. Its a fact. She burnt out the other eye starring into the Sun as part of some other non-BK "religious" practise before she became a BK. Or at least that is the story she told us.

There is a topic about her elsewhere. She seems to come off better in people's experience than Jayanti, Janki and some of the other "Seniors", probably for her motherliness and ability to laugh at herself. Some of her talks were ... "creative" shall we say. Came into Gyan in the late 50s.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post04 May 2009

ex-l wrote:its no big deal

re Sudesh"s eye, yes, I knew. Apparently her family were into a sun worshipping sect and as a child she stared at the sun. And, yes, she was quite a nice woman. Much more real than some of the others. She always did have a mother superior attitude with me though. Probably picking up on my early conditioning in Catholic schools.

Towards the end of my time with the BKs, when things were getting quite serious for me, I used to get the impression that Sudesh was not in agreement with Jayanti and Janki. They were all in London at that time. Since then I believe Sudesh was sent off to Germany.

It came to my mind today the difficulty of dealing with grief in the BK environment and now I am reminded of Sudesh giving a class; it was for my benefit I am sure. She described her mothers death, and how she was not affected by it. I think she said she was with Brahma Baba at the time, and she repeated some of his words of wisdom around it.

I was helped not at all, although I do think her intentions were in part kindly, another part to get me back on track.

I think it is another serious issue; the lack of space for grieving.

I hope to relate more of my experience in time.

searcher

exiting BK

  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 06 Mar 2009

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post04 May 2009

Ah yes, the subject of grief and the BKs - "eat halwa when your mother dies". The most unhelpful and misguided suggestion I received in a period of grieving for someone very close was that I should "be happy". There were some people who were genuinely caring during this period but, overall, much of what I received during that time, albeit well-meaning, was exactly the opposite of what I needed. I found this complete misunderstanding of what was required to move through a grief process quite disturbing.

Some long term BKs "brushed off" deaths of their significant others in a way which made me feel sad for them.

As Starchild's post indicated, grief not dealt with at the time will resurface later and will be even more difficult to move through then. If this is what they are really teaching then they are not only misguided but irresponsible.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: I am a newcomer and having difficulty using the site

Post08 May 2009

Hi Searcher,

I am sorry to hear of your loss and that you were in such a difficult and insensitive ( whether intended or not) environment, while you came to terms with the bereavement.
Searcher wrote:eat halwa when your mother dies.

Yes, I had forgotten that little gem.

Sudesh's story of her mother's passing of natural causes was so irrelevant to me. My loved ones died in a terrible tragedy and they were very young. I would not dream of trying to diminish anyone's grief and loss at the passing of an elderly loved one; but I was overcome with grief and totally traumatized. And while everyone - including the Seniors - tried to be kind and supportive at first but, as is the experiences of most bereaved persons, others soon get on with their own lives.

The huge added difficulties in the BK environment are; firstly, they are self focused, so the lack of awareness of others feelings is more pronounced. They were floating all around me, their main preoccupation being to make efforts to get a good number in the rosary (the Seniors had their own important things to be doing; entertaining important people and the like). And, secondly, I had by that removed myself from the normal support systems, i.e. family and friends.

When it became obvious that I was getting worse, not better I was no longer welcome in the way I had been. I was subtly pushed out (at least that is how I see it, though I try to take responsibility for my own decisions). Negative effects on those around no doubt.

No one tried to get me counselling or any type of help.

Kind of strange that these people believe that they are going to give peace and comfort to everyone in the world in the Apocalypse and yet they can not give any help, to those who they have called their "family", and who are right there in front of them.

So I also lost that which I had given up my life for. And I believe that a lot of the people whose posts I have read here also need to grieve the losses that they have experienced. One person (a very wise older BK), told me that it was being said that I became mentally unstable and that is why I had left, and that I would never be of sound mind again. I was crazy at the time of grief but also of the confusion I was left with over the BK experience and treatment of me.

As I said previously, it took me many years to seek help, and many more to come to a recovery. I am only now able to examine the BK part of it.
Next

Return to Newcomers