Some comments and advice

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
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ex-l

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post17 Aug 2009

Interesting theory explaining the initial high one experiences and how the organization and leaders are feeding off it starchild. Its true to say that many individuals are "triggered" and experiences great highs and some wonders in the beginning. It is called "the Honeymoon Period". You think it is going to last forever, make increasing efforts and sacfricies for it to do so, but it does not.

Quick translation for Jannisder's comments, "Shudra" is the word used by the god spirit of the BKWSU for non-BKs, or any other religion. Literally, it means the lowest caste or untouchable. They, the BKs, are the "true", highest caste or "Brahmins". You, a non-BK are a "Shudra". We, ex-BKs, are quote-unquote "The Lowest of the Low".

Kamaferro, you started with questions about the spiritualism of the BKWSU. This aspect is very true. Either you accept that the spirit which possessed and spoke through Lekhraj Kirpalani and others is God, or it is some other kind of spirit. Spiritualism continues on with claims that both "God" and the perfected Lekhraj Kirpalani return to posses Dadi Gulzar, look through her eyes, speak through her mouth and interact with BK adherents in India to this day.

They will also put on regular shows of deceased leaders or Hindu gods coming and acting through them, or leaders going into a trance and traveling to "other realms" to speak with Lekhraj Kirpalani. These messages are then used to guide the organization and these spirits are the focus on BK meditation. Not any general or universal concept of God you might have not. You will have to discard any theory you have and adopt there. There is no question in that. According to them, all you have now is ignorance.

Most of the spiritualism ... if any of it is true and spiritualism is as it is claimed ... is quite a meaningless and at a child-like level but when Lekhraj Kirpalani comes, he often deals with business matters for the organization; investments, property, VIP strategies etc.

Kamaferro ... 'Kāma' means sensual or sexual pleasure in Sanskrit, 'ferro' means iron in Italian. Interesting name. The BKs say this is the "Iron Age" and "Lust" is the greatest enemy.

I think what you are doing is very interesting but they will have an answer for everything and are not always honest. My criticism is targeted at how the BKs deceive other people into believing the BK god spirit is other religions' God as well, particularly at interfaith meetings etc. The BKs do believe that God really has come on earth.

Have an interesting time.

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post17 Aug 2009

Some distorts and out of contexts may be present but this Forum and website are filled with unquestionable plain facts.

kamaferro

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post17 Aug 2009

My meeting with the founder of this BK centre was OK. Before continuing, I confirm that I am not interested in joining BK at all. It is out of my belief. I am sure there are nice people, that is their way and karma, and if they are happy good for them. The founder explained what they mean for God, the mediatic way to get info. They said, "we are not a cult". He has been happy for the last 15 years and no other paths and gurus could fulfill his desires of spirituality and truth. Is not up to me to judge.

I only have a small doubt, how comes this organization is surviving since 1936 and nobody managed to accuse them, make them close down and so on? I was not interested in the first place. I just wanted to know more. I am closer to Hindu spirituality. It was a clarification and I found help from all of you.

They told me are aware of all these sites and don't really bother because have millions of followers. They are different from all are organizations because have no leader to report to. Anyway, I am not interested and will stop here.

Thanks to all and OM NAMAH SHIVAYA

starchild

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post17 Aug 2009

Kamaferro wrote:How come this organization has survived since 1936 and nobody has managed to accuse them or make them close down ...

Many sects can last a long time, even very bizarre ones.

Some people stay in the BK life. It suits some people. I would question whether they are as happy all the time as they present themselves when they are doing service. The person who met you would have been doing service as he was speaking to you. It is another part of it.

Also, many of the people who are posting on this site are unraveling or coming to terms with their experience, and trying to re-engage with life outside the Brahma Kumaris. Leaving can be quite an isolating experience and it is great to find, and know that there are others who have experienced the same.

I do not think everyone wants to close them down. I do not think we all care what they do, except to warn other people that there could be dangers and perhaps be there for those who need support.

Also this site is has been calling for various care programs and precautions against abuse. I am have come here only 5 months or so, someone else can probably explain that part of it better.

starchild

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post17 Aug 2009

There are also accounts on this site of people who did take on cults legally. Sorry, I cannot remember exactly where.

Perhaps someone can help with that.

It is not easy for individuals to do battle with big organizations, especially when they have accumulated a lot of wealth.
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rayoflight

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post17 Aug 2009

kamaferro wrote:They told me are aware of all these sites and don't really bother because have millions of followers. They are different from all are organizations because have no leader to report to.

They don't bother with these sites in the same way that they don't bother with anything else that challenges their limited dogma (including people). They don't care and they dismiss things that are not worth their time. In other words, that don't make them richer or more famous. Otherwise, they only care about numbers.

I was asked three questions when I had my first private meeting Dadi Janki and Jayanti:

    1. How much money do you have?
    2. Are you married?
    3. What work do you do?
What does any of this have to do with spirituality? They have no class.

His answer about the "millions of followers" also demonstrates their level of arrogance. Not a very humble answer is it? It sounds like publicity. "See how popular we are?"

By the way, this Brahmin is not telling you the truth. The leader is deceased and speaks to them through the medium Dadi Gulzar and controls the followers with the Murli, which is their Bible. Also, it is a hierarchy so everyone reports to someone else.
starchild wrote:The person who met you would have been doing service as he was speaking to you.

Yes, he is doing service. His job is to recruit not to tell you the truth otherwise he would be considered a traitor. The fact that he's a center founder would be a predicament ("a situation from which extrication is difficult especially an unpleasant or trying one") if he ever thought about leaving.

But you did the right thing. More people need to question them.

starchild

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

kamaferro wrote:They told me that they are aware of these sites and don't really bother ... they have millions ...

They are aware of a site where people are expressing serious concerns, and they are not bothered? That's not so good, is it?
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rayoflight

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

starchild,

No, it's not good, but a brainwashed person no longer reacts to anything unless it is service to Baba and the BKWSO. They consider these concerns as "bad vibrations" rather than human beings, that is Brothers and Sisters, seeking help. Brothers and Sisters are no longer humanity. To them, they are only Brahmins.

The brainwashing has reduced adults to egocentric and immature children. I doubt that when God calls us his children, this is what he has in mind.

bkti-pit

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

rayoflight wrote:I was asked three questions when I had my first private meeting Dadi Janki and Jayanti:

1. How much money do you have?
2. Are you married?
3. What work do you do?

What does any of this have to do with spirituality? They have no class.

So true, and it says it all!

One of the main reasons why I have been distancing myself from the BK world is that I feel that, whatever they say, it runs more like a corporation than a family; which does not match my dreams and aspirations.
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rayoflight

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

That is good, bkti-pit.

You deserve a family that is warm, affectionate and loving.

I would hardly believe that anyone who initially joins the BKWSO is consciously seeking a business transaction to replace the spiritual love they want in their heart.
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alladin

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

Hi. Whether the BKWSO perceive Forums like this as a potential threat or not, is irrelevant to me. I have been taking (and hopefully giving!!) a lot of benefit by sharing feelings and opinions here. I see it as a healing process, breaking the omerta wall, and as self-service ... the one that BKs forget to do, and have no time for.

A small thorn, though, can stop a lion from hunting, a scratch can turn into a deadly gangrene, and an ant can become a problem for an elephant. A tiny little crack in a huge, strongly built dam, can make it collapse and create a catastrophe.

I believe that the BK corporation is so arrogant and self absorbed, like Narcissus, that will fail to see the true unlimited picture. David and Goliath.

Of course, like Jimmy Cliff sang, "The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all!".

They are Babylon system part of the kali yugi establishment. I am confident that truth will take its revenge, at the right time. Meanwhile, we keep cool and provide an important facility to others, no sweat, things and Earth will take care of themselves!

Weren't we taught that each one has his own part in Drama, and his Karma to be responsible for? I wouldn't like to be in their place, honestly!!!

Thank God I am not somewhere telling lies and manipulating people's minds in order to extract free labour and money from them. It would be such an ugly part to have!
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ex-l

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

kamaferro wrote:I only have a small doubt, how comes this organization is surviving since 1936 and nobody managed to accuse them, make them close down and so on? I was not interested in the first place. I just wanted to know more. I am closer to Hindu spirituality. It was a clarification and I found help from all of you.

They told me are aware of all these sites and don't really bother because have millions of followers. They are different from all are organizations because have no leader to report to. Anyway, I am not interested and will stop here.

Actually, they started in 1932 and they have been accused since 1936. There is no "international court" one could take a "false religion" to but they, or members, have run foul of the law and been criticized numberous countries ... and they lost in a legal battle to do damage to and shut down this website.

The history they all repeat, which comes from a "hagiography" (religious romantic novel) called 'Adi Dev', is greatly falsified to appeal to individuals with a Hindu background, and contains direct quotes or concepts taken from Hinduism to increase their appeal to Indians.

The BKWSU doesn't have "millions of followers" but they might have 1,000,000 by now. Catholicism has far more, does that make it more true?

Lastly, they very much do have absolutely leaders and a highly centralized control system. Number one are the spirits that speak through their primary medium. Then come individuals such as "Dadi" Janki Kripalani who have pretty much absolute power within the organization. Below her, they are all the "we have no gurus" gurus who have power according to their status. It is one of their favorite lines. As you are not interested, I won't bore you but we could document it in detail.
rayoflight wrote:I was asked three questions when I had my first private meeting Dadi Janki and Jayanti:

1. How much money do you have?
2. Are you married?
3. What work do you do?

Amazing ...

What would be worth documenting is the state of mind you were in, and how much obedience and good potential you had to show BEFORE you got to meet them?

What was the build up like that made you NOT tell them who the hell they thought they were to as such questions?

There would have been no point asking them personal questions, or questions about their and the BKWSU finances. You would not have got an honest answer ...

jann

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

As a BK with a so called lokik human family, you will get asked questions from the people around you who really care because they worry (natural human feeling).

Now if BK is dumping all kinds of "teachings" to your head like, "first your family than your friends become your enemy". How do you think they will react when they read this?
Destroyer of Obstacles week 16.08.09

1. Self Respect. I am destroyer of obstacles like the Father - as, people showered the flower of abuses on Baba at the time of establishment. He faced a lot of offence ... so many Brahmin souls too created obstacles due to some small reasons but Baba never wasted his time and energy in all these mean things ... instead He went deep into the depth of Gyan and Yoga and conquered all these obstacles by love, good wishes and sweetness. We should also follow Father in the same way.

2. Yoga Practice. If you have any obstacle in your life, you can conquer that by remain staying in the self-respect. "I am destroyer of obstacles." So, this week we shall practice following tips to destroy our or others obstacles.

    a. If you are ill. I, the soul, am the master of this body ... conqueror of this
    nature.
    b. If you sleep more then. "I am conqueror of sleep."
    c. If you have peacelessness in your home. "I am incarnation of peace."
    d. If you feel impurity as an obstacle. "I am god of purity."
    e. If evil souls are creating obstacles. "I am master almighty soul ... under the
    canopy of Almighty etc".
3. Dharana - Past is past.

"The greatest obstacle in effort-making is to remember, churn and share, what is past, either related to me or others. So, the method to become conqueror of obstacles is to feel past things as if this belongs to some other birth, so old. Never think about past things and neither keep them in your heart nor share with others. Forget the past and move forward. Then only you will become conqueror of obstacles." - BapDada

4. Churning.

    - What is obstacle?
    - Why do obstacles come?
    - How to get-rid of obstacles?
    - Note down five points of BapDada that can help you at the time of obstacles.
5. For Effort Makers. Dear effort makers! No obstacle come to bring you down, rather, it comes to uplift you and make you stronger and experienced. So, never be confused when obstacles come, rather, remain in Godly intoxication and be seated on your seat of self-respect. Maya just like a paper tiger or a dead ant in front of you. I am a victorious soul of every Kalpa, by these thoughts become obstacle free.
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alladin

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post18 Aug 2009

About the questions asked to Rayoflight by SS, my concern is that most probably at that time she was predisposed, or let's say programmed, to trust such elevated soul's intentions and not to suspect any malevolent intention behind. No indignation. We were all programmed to justify any bad behaviour from SS, teachers etc ..., and inconsistencies in what "Baba said". These people could not possibly be materialistic users or abusers!

As I read those questions, I try to remember, and in fact re-awaken, what my feelings might have been at that time, and I am afraid that due to brain washing, drishti and the rest (hahaha, maybe we were all "influenced"!!!), I would have thought that Dadi just wanted to find out for my own benefit if I could support myself, or not. To what extent could I be serviceable and gain my place in Paradise.

At the question "married or not", I would have felt guilty and inferior to other BK Kumaris. Sorry, not single, nor a virgin anymore!!! :oops: So, if you look at the questions in a confused state of mind, you can give significance such as married means "I cannot surrender fully, I have unfortunately responsibilities".

But now I think, especially after having read many stories of couples and families breaking up, problems with parents, children and spouses for the SS, it is important to find out if there's a partner somewhere which may cause trouble. Or maybe become a "cooperative soul", give a green light for even financial contribution, or be converted completely to the cult.
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rayoflight

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Re: Some comments and advice

Post19 Aug 2009

alladin wrote:About the questions asked to Rayoflight by SS, my concern is that most probably at that time she was predisposed, or let's say programmed, to trust such elevated soul's intentions and not to suspect any malevolent intention behind.

Thank you alladin. I have to say that is precisely what happened.
ex-l wrote:What would be worth documenting is the state of mind you were in, and how much obedience and good potential you had to show BEFORE you got to meet them?
What was the build up like that made you NOT tell them who the hell they thought they were to as such questions?
There would have been no point asking them personal questions, or questions about their and the BKWSU finances. You would not have got an honest answer ...

I can elaborate a bit on my emotional state to explain why I fell in with the BKWSO: I was vulnerable, I was sad, I was questioning the truth about life and about human beings. I was searching for something that would return the happiness I had lost or at least guide me back to a way to find it within me. I was searching for answers to figure out how to get my life back after having gone through a devastating life change. I was a child in a grown woman's body hoping to discover that there were still some honest and sincere people in the world. I was ignorant about Hindu spirituality. I was ignorant about cults. I was ignorant about God. So I was obedient because I knew nothing. I was just very open to learning.

When SS asked me those questions my gut reaction was, "what the ****!" but I just couldn't quite believe that my gut was right. Here was a supposedly highly spiritual person who was going to guide me to those answers. I was raised to respect my elders so I ignored my gut and looked back into her eyes. I saw very inquisitive and curious eyes. I did not see love or anything that gave me peace. I believe I just saw someone who wanted to help me on my spiritual path. And as you say ex-l, it wouldn't have mattered if I'd asked any questions anyway. They would not have answered.

I realize two things about that meeting now: 1) SS was grooming me to become a follower, and 2) I was game because it was just that to me: a game and an adventure. I had nothing to lose because I had lost everything that I most cherished in my life. And therefore, I was perfect prey.
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