Some comments and advice

Very interesting quotation from the BKWSU, Jannisder. One might wonder the state of mind of massed individuals whose relationship to sleep, nature, the body etc is to "conquer ... conquer ... conquer".

One also needs to decipher BKSpeak ... By "things of the past", they mean family, friends, loved ones, any other interest or ambition outside of the BKWSU etc ... none of which are to be "kept in the heart" or even remembered.

Anyone of any intelligence or integrity would be deeply offended by the bullsh** factors, e.g. Lekhraj Kirpalani being showered by "the flower of abuses" and going "deep into the depth of Knowledge" and conquering (again) "all these obstacles by love, good wishes and sweetness". They paint him out as if he was some suffering martyr. Now that we have a tiny window into the past, we can see how this is absolute bullsh**.

Firstly, for the fist 20 years Lekhraj Kirpalani thought he was God and did not really that another spirit called Shiva was speaking through him. Excuse me but ... 20 years ... it is hardly "deep" to take 20 years to realise that you are not God! And we see now the quality of the "depth" he got to, the arrogance, the imbecility of it all, the persistent insults they threw at Gandhi, Congress, Westerners etc ... the false predictions of Destruction.

He, and they, also brought upon himself the mild criticisms that they received by, after marrying one 15 year old daughter off to a 50 year old, taking back a second daughter married off to the head of his community. We are left assuming both were married off for the sake of social advancement. That leader of his community also lived next door to the Om Mandli (he had sold Kripalani the house) and was subjected to the noises of the women going into trance or being possessed. The community had concerns about children being in long term trances, trances the BKs themself say lasted up to a week. They had had a good lawyer and played slippery as hell with the court. Again, something they don't mention.

As to rayoflight, I'd be very interested to hear more.

"Dadi" Janki Kripalani and Jayanti Kirpalani have now had DECADES of problems from families, friends and partners of Brahma Kumari followers ... in ALL CONTINENTS. They know all about. In Janki case, going back 7 decades.

As to having "no class", the senior BKs are, however, very skillful about the handling of new adherents. As skillful as intelligence officers or police, and as sharp as the business managers they are. They benefit directly from newcomers adherence in terms of money, free labor and bring in new members. It is in their interest to encourage the "intoxicated Honeymoon Period" when BK followers are high and ... most importantly ... unsullied from all the negativity within the the BK movement, e.g. criticisms of the leadership, "Brothers' Maya" etc.

At the very basest level, their increasingly "First Class Air Travel" army-business-religion marches on its bank accounts ... or the bank accounts of its adherents. Such conflicts cost them time and money. How naive we were ... how naive individuals still are.

I wonder if future BKs are then pigeon holed according to such meetings?

Ray, do you care to comment further about that meeting?

They paint him out as if he was some suffering martyr. Now that we have a tiny window into the past, we can see how this is absolute bullsh**.

I don't know if I am heading off topic here. Maybe there's an existing one about BB. Personally, I still have stuff to deal with, re BB. Yes, they described him as a humorous, introverted, loving, down to earth, humble character who preferred simplicity and spirituality to materialism ... when convenient. To wealthy businessmen, they underline that he was also a successful jewel merchant. A religious minded and generous one. I always felt in tune with this soul, part of his close family, loved and welcome in Madhuban, accepted unconditionally. Fascinated by the story SS told about him, how he handled people and situations.

A cool guy with white moustache. Was I just projecting on him the qualities I would like in a Father/grandfather??

For many years I wondered "how can BapDada allow so much corruption, bossiness and derailment from the more profound teachings?" With the info received through this Forum, my question has become, "was he fooled or did he deliberately fool others/us?". Was he deluded, a "madman"?

Anyway, it is absolutely true that SS who outlived him, painted him as a suffering martyr. Thanks for the apt definition, ex-l, it made me laugh so much and I am also laughing at myself for accepting it for years without doubting. So, Adi Dev, really is his hagiography, no questions allowed.

Firstly, for the fist 20 years Lekhraj Kirpalani thought he was God and did not really that another spirit called Shiva was speaking through him. Excuse me but ... 20 years ... it is hardly "deep" to take 20 years to realise that you are not God! And we see now the quality of the "depth" he got to, the arrogance, the

imbecility .

of it all, the persistent insults they threw at Gandhi, Congress, Westerners etc ... the false predictions of Destruction.

And look now, they discovered that all these despised sinful souls, mahatmas, politicians, "Double foreigners" (non-indians), can be milked like cows. VIPS, all of them recycled as mics, fronts and donors. All are welcome! Make yourself at home, as long as you can be of some use (to the Task of World Transformation, of course!).

Must be the power of transformation, like Indian cows that turn plastic bags and rubbish into milk!!

Ray, do you care to comment further about that meeting?

Sure, but I don't know if there's much more to say.

They thought they could get more out of me because I was associated with some people in the media. But you know, they were wrong. You cannot judge a person by their friends. I was basically "wined and dined" or, in BK terms, "taken under DJ's wing" in the hopes that my Honeymoon Period would get me to do some PR for them. Well, it did not. I was vulnerable but not dumb.

Only once did I get involved with a project and regret it terribly afterwards. After having put in hours of work, phone calls to my contacts and dealing with international calls from a frantic Sister in London at 6am, the SS cut me out of the project overnight, like putting a sword through butter. There was no, "I am sorry", nothing. Just, they made other decisions. They were so unprofessional that I swore never to mix my business with theirs again. And I haven't. In fact, because of that I lost credibility with my own professional contacts. It was horrendous. I was just appalled at their absolute lack of consideration and egocentric behavior and for what? Free work??? Vaffanculo!

Their mind was clearly only on one thing: what can you do for me?

My "formal leaving" ... or my final point of realization ... came about precisely because of that twosome because I smelt exactly the same tendencies as you write. And it was probably a decade or more before your experience. Yes, to their ability to cut off and be callous. Yes, to their mercantile but unprofessional nature. For me, it was all the emphasis on self-advertisement and VIP chasing. I thought ... who do you people really think you are? Doing nothing "for peace" ... sucking other people into "doing nothing" and then taking their money for it.

I read similar reports more recently of the big name US BKs squabbling amongst themselves over the publishing of their latest product (book) where they did not want to pay the full-price ... but certainly charged it afterwards. I cringe ... would rather commit suicide than remember ... some of the things I said and did in the name of "service". I have no idea how I became so idiotic ... and I was by no means the most "committed".

Let it be a warning to any other would be BK professionals.

Must be the power of transformation, like Indian cows that turn plastic bags and rubbish into milk!!

It is a special service only yogis as powerful as Dadi can offer the poor rich people of the world ... miraculously "purifying their karma" by accepting their money. Preferably in cash. Of course, I cannot understand the workings of Karma but it obviously works best when the money is in cash-cash.

starchild,

Thanks for your post. I have never heard it put that way, but the word "vampire" seems accurate enough. How else do people get ill and lose all their energy and life force? It has to be sucked out somehow.

As I re-read some of the older posts and different points of view, and toss around the BK stuff I actually believed for a while, I come back to my one solid belief and that is that if we are born free, we should remain free, for man has fought wars to be free and now the BKWSO has found new ways of enslaving human beings. For what? To belong somewhere? To escape reality? To have a modicum of pseudo-truth so we can pretend to be okay?

Rayoflight,

I do not think that it is the full explanation, I am also trying to explore what is very complex. "Vampirism" might not be completely accurate but there is something about the group dynamic and energy that I am trying to work out.

As I said, I still get apprehensive feelings when I post here. It brings up fears in me about going against what I once believed was the ultimate answer. It passes soon enough.

When I read yesterday bkt-pit's post yesterday, it reminded me again of the wonderful experience of the meditation. And he seems to have a really balanced way of living the BK life. But we are all different.

When I read your first posts, your experiences really struck me as pretty similar to mine. The feelings of being invaded and also the Seniors reactions to me, (as was said to me once, a giver of visions!!). No one took any mind that I was way out of my zone. That is part of the problem, taking people to a spiritual level without any safety nets in place.

But amazing as the meditation experience is, there is the other side of it.

I do not have much time just now, but its like there is something very right, but also something very wrong, if that makes any sense. Have a journey to make now. See you all soon. Be well.

p.s. Would like to explore the freedom issue further when I have more time.

starchild,

I really do understand your apprehension about posting. It happens to me too. I have had to make a choice though, that was best for me. My personal survival depended on leaving the BKs for good. I was just not benefiting from the practice, the dogma or the family. They were very antagonistic towards me on an energetic level. I am often telepathic and the worse feeling ever is when someone is looking at me with a smile saying one thing, while I pick up something completely different from their thoughts. The most hurtful is when I pick up a negative judgment that is in complete opposition to what they are saying to my face. This happens in life at times but is not nearly as vile as what I picked up from the BKs, especially the Sisters.

I forgave and forgave and worked on myself and meditated and did service and taught Yoga and God knows what else until one day I finally realized, wait a minute, they are brainwashed and do not even realize that what they are thinking is actually very hurtful. The silent judgments and the fake smiles broke my heart too many times. So I decided to save my own self and sacrifice the blissful meditations and lovely retreats for my own peace of mind. I had endured too much negativity and no longer felt happy. I wondered if I would miss the good stuff but, no matter what I do, I still go into deep meditations and am graced with God's love anyway. I just don't have to give up my life anymore or answer to hypocrisy.

I am no longer vegetarian, I tossed all my Shiv Baba posters, I've long stopped reading, listening or churning the Murli, I don't hang around any Brahmins and yet I fly at will and receive so much love from the people who take my Yoga classes because they tell me I radiate love. We are love so being a decent and loving human being is really all we need to do. I, personally, don't need a so-called spiritual family because I happen to love my family and that makes them spiritual. Mutual love is by default spiritual no matter who it is. My health was in danger so I stopped being vegetarian and I bounced back so fast I knew it was the right thing to do. There are ways to eat whilst still being an aware human being.

The BKWSU is an extremist practice. My religion is to find balance in life. It hasn't been easy and I believe I fell in with the BKs because I do have an extremist side to my personality. But I am working on finding equilibrium and slowly but surely I know that I will get there. First step was clearing out the BK bullsh** from my mind and spirit.

... the worse feeling ever is when someone is looking at me with a smile saying one thing, while I pick up something completely different from their thoughts. The most hurtful is when I pick up a negative judgment that is in complete opposition to what they are saying to my face. This happens in life at times but is not nearly as vile as what I picked up from the BKs, especially the Sisters.

And, of course, often in complete opposition to what is objectively true or fair ... on top of which is the denial that this is all going on behind the "Stepford Wives" front.

What kind of things did you intuit?

I also pick up on the point you underline of the BKs gradual limitation of one's "family", i.e. humanity, to just the elite "BKs Family".

ex-l,

It's kind of scary how much they resemble the Stepford Wives. What a strange but accurate comparison.

Sadly, a lot of the things I intuited were observations that were then distorted into a negative opinion, that was then formulated into a BK principle.

I honestly think that some Brahmins actually look for something wrong in people. It confirms their superiority and suggests that the person needs the BK. It's all part of the imperfect souls that we all are according to them, mainly because their goal and agenda is to become perfect like BB.

When I think about how many people willingly accept to become a carbon copy of BB, makes me think that people are really lost and have forgotten how special and unique they are.

I realized that maybe one of the reasons SS has a mustache is not only because she is ignoring her body, but because she wants to be like BB.

Hi Kamaferro,

I am saddened by the views of many of the ex-BKs. I have been exposed to this organisation and my experiences have been extremely contradictory to what has been described by what clearly appears to be individuals whom have had negative experiences. The cause of the resentment baffles me because from my encounters with them, I have felt only love and the warmth and friendship of a loving family which is far from a cult. \

I must let you know that I am of a completely sound mental and emotional condition, with all of my faculties about me. I am currently happily married with a teenage daughter, and in a senior management position in the corporate industry. I am spiritually well and stable and far from an unfortunate degenerate, suicidal lost soul with addictions or afflictions. Contrarily I am an independent thinker, with the ability to distinguish between reality and a possible farce. Furthermore as such I choose not to be influenced by unsubstantiated ill sentiment.

In my experience, the practise of Yoga has meant a strengthened intellect which affords me the benefit of thinking with clarity and understanding with an enlightened psyche. This as you may have gathered is far from being brainwashed. If I wish to acquire knowledge, I must take the necessary steps and make the necessary inquiries and gather the necessary information and knowledge, through a process of research and learning. Please do not depend on the negative opinions of others. Each of us is unique and as such we must form our own unique opinions.

I have been reading through many comments and most I have found to be riddled with contradictions with respect to the BK practises, e.g. I read something about followers being discouraged from physical exercise; I find this hard to believe, I have been exercising for longer that I have been meditating and this has not changed not has it been discouraged. If anything I have been told a healthy body would enhance a healthy mind. How does an unhealthy person have the energy to get up at 4am everyday? (With great difficulty, I assume!)

In addition, I read something about BK encouraging isolation from families and dissaciation with the nuclear family; meditation has been a positive force within my family, bringing us closer and allowing us the opportunity to discuss freely topics related to spirituality and God. In the past, we were a typical Hindu family who blindly followed rituals without questioning tradition nor did we appreciate the significance. I have since learned more about Hinduism than ever previously cared to know about. I have a renewed curiosity about my culture just by merely engaing my intellect and directing focused thoughts to God.

As for donations, if anything the BK have been more than generous to us, in every way and have not once asked for any financial assistance or contribution.

In my humble experience, I find myself in a better place; emotionally an spritually than I did before. I did not come to the organisation with any spriritual, mental, religious or emotional hang ups. I have never been depressed or suffered any mental illness nor have I ever been spiritually starved but I was looking to strengthen my relationship with God and find a more tangible manner in which to communicate with him. Not only have I achieved this, I am more centred, I feel whole. I am a better human being, now that I realise I am a spiritual being. I now consider the needs of others above my own.

So, if going inside myself and being still and focusing my thoughts so as to accomplish a state of unconditional peace within and develop a deep unsuperficial love and compassion for my fellow man appears "cultish", then it is a cult I am happy to belong to. The alternate is an option I no longer consider.

Much love and good luck to you,

Nicci

Dear Nicci,

I am happy for you that you haven't become a BK. You are also not a regular Murli student. You are considered so far from the Seniors' point of view as a "married, wealthy contact person whose connections and position can be useful anytime".

You have no idea what the surrendered BKs are going through and I assume, with your mind's firewalls to protect "your beloved BKs", it will be not easy for you to accept what is going on really in the BK world, although you have here in this forum all documentation of personal records from decades long fully surrendered BKs and historical original documents in the Library and History Sections.

I am delighted to learn that you are happily married with a daughter and have a good position in your professional life.These are most precious gifts of happiness and success which are not allowed to the fully surrendered BKs. If you want to learn more please make some reading about the "Principles" and "Maryadas" of the BKs in the Section "BKWSU for Beginners and FAQs" clicking on the link at the headline. (You would not share one bedroom with your wife, if she is a BK or not - does not matter, you would not eat the food cooked by your wife if she is a non-BK).

You have no idea how the surrendered BKs are living. They have no time and energy for sports or reading. After the late service in the center finishing at 12:00 pm or 01:00 am they have to get up at 04:00 a.m every morning, then attend the 06:00 a.m Murli class every morning, and then go to the work. They get tired, become irritated, eventually sick and drained, and they are not able to think properly because of sleepless roundaroundtheclock 7 days a week life.

They have not asked you any donations and money so far because they have greater expectations from you. Please don't get shocked one day when they ask you to donate an apartment for a center or to will all your properties to the BKWSU ...

All surrendered BKs have to donate monthly minimum 10% of their income regularly and, additionally, have to support the expenses of the center whenever the center in charge asks. Many BKs work day and night to pay the rent of the center, or the mortgage of the center, which is the real estate of the center-in-charges. By asking the surrendered ones you cannot learn anything. They will never complain and always say that they are very happy and very lucky.

Please don't believe that what the BKs are doing during meditation time is "Yoga" or "Raja Yoga" as the BKs are telling you. It is a twisted form of channelling, or a trial for channelling, to the spooks of the BKs (earthbound entities, or hungry ghosts, which have to be fed by every "Bhog offering" at Thursday mornings in the centers worldwide and in Madhuban by every "BapDada meeting").

I hope and wish for you that you protect your private life and personal rights and your healthy distance to the BKs in the future and continue to take from the BKs whatever is useful to you.

Contrarily I am an independent thinker, with the ability to distinguish between reality and a possible farce. Furthermore as such I choose not to be influenced by unsubstantiated ill sentiment.

If I wish to acquire knowledge, I must take the necessary steps and make the necessary inquiries and gather the necessary information and knowledge, through a process of research and learning.

I have been reading through many comments and most I have found to be riddled with contradictions ... In addition, I read something about BK encouraging isolation from families and dissaciation with the nuclear family

Welcome Nicci,

I very much hope that you are capable of what you claim, professional and impartial research, and making decisions on the basis of your findings.

Please be specific about which comments you consider to be "riddled with contradictions".

I have to agree with Tom, in BKWSU terms you are just a "contact soul" and a future potential resource that they will me grooming subtly. "Taking the pulse", they call it inside. They operate a soft sell, loss leader system but, at the end of the day, after after all of you and everything you own, and are surprising adamant when it comes down to conflicts about ownership.

If what you say is true (and, sadly, we have experienced far too many BKs and their supporters not being truthful) you are basically not a BK, not "in the machine" or know, and have little to no idea of the realities ... never mind all the stuff that the BKWSU leadership does not tell the low ranking centers-in-charge and so-called teachers. Stuff like the historical revisionism and failed predictions of the End of the World.

I appreciate that might be tough to read but this is in response to comments of yours that I humbly suggest are dangerously insensitive and supercilious. I most certainly know of families just like yours that have been torn apart mentally, emotionally and financially by the Brahma Kumaris. Indeed, I know of some that are being so right now. Most of the academics writing about the BKWSU agree with this issue right, going back to the 1930s. And I know how the BKWSU grooms and advised its adherents to do so ... as I was one once.

So, for example,

* When did first become involved with the BKs and how deeply involved are you? (This is just to establish at what phase the BKs were in and what degree of revision, when you gained your first impression).
• Do you follow the Maryadas, attend Murli class or Amrit Vela?
* Have you been to Madhuban to meet with their god spirit, and hear them speaking in person yet?

I am happy for you that you haven't become a BK. You are also not a regular Murli student. You are considered so far from the Seniors' point of view as a "married, wealthy contact person whose connections and position can be useful anytime".

You have no idea what the surrendered BKs are going through

Give Tom a chance Nicci and hear what they have to say. They speak on the basis of years of experience.

If you are interested in learning how the BK system has evolved, you will certainly do so here.

They are cunning enough not to "burn contacts" and wealthy, influential people, being precious, are handled with care. Often they are not been pushed to follow the "disciplines", or are not informed about their existence, for years. They pamper them with privileged treatments (including invitations to Madhuban without requiring a change in lifestyle or preparation), sheltering them so that they do not get scared off by the strictness of the rules and their incompatibility with family/working life.

These double standards are a symptom of corruption, and hard to digest for anyone with some ethics.

Apart from this, it is also true that not all centers are exactly the same. People who run them have been trained and molded but some are resilient and retain some degree of decency, open mindedness, altruism, sense of humor, etc ...

So, Nicci, welcome. Possibly you have been in contact with some extra smooth operators or with some better than average centers in charge BKs. In both cases, I suggest you keep your eyes open whilst you learn whatever you deem sensible and useful to you. I do not reject all the teachings of the BKWSO, I partly benefited, but lots of things stink and I found them unacceptable from day one.

A very obvious one is the caste system and, if you are a high class person, you may not notice/mind the hierarchies in this organization. Still, they are very pronounced and in contradiction, I think, with spirituality and true brotherhood ... the very same one they claim to teach.