When to tell a friend to wake up

I remember the first time he told me that the world was going to end, I was quite shocked. He told me the info had come from a special source, and that when it happened he was going to go to India and help out in some village.

One thing for sure, from the perspective of 'insiders', or ex-insiders, one can see the bullsh** line he is feeding you ... all this talk of "special sources" and "mystical revelations" and ... ha ha ha ... "helping out in some village" as if he and the BKs were Mother Theresa.

Its bullsh**. He got told about Destruction during one of the initiation courses. It used to be called "The Seven Days Course" but now it is spread over numerous course because it was too hard core and Hinduistic and used to freak too many people out. They would leave and never come back. Now they like to keep people, and their wallets and goodwill closer by leading them on. You can read an old teacher's training course in the Encyclopedia to see how they work.

To get to India, he would have had to go to morning class every day for 6 months or so and every day, several times, he would have been told about Destruction. Again, you can read the Murlis (channeled messages) in the Encyclopedia. It has been going on since the 1930s. And, sorry, but bullsh** to "helping out in a village". He went to witness the spirits possess their medium Dadi Gulzar in person during a mass seance they call "meeting with BapDada".

It is all so typical 'Brahma Kumari hoodwink' ... as is this gradual encultation of lovers and friends. Read Jannisder's, and others, experiences on this forum of being on the other side of that game play. We can decipher it all for you. Yes, you really need to start talking to his girlfriend at least. Its gone too far. I am absolutely sure she does not know what she is getting into.

Once you do, you will start to see the real face - and mind plays - of the BKWSU. It runs from the light of truth and scrabbled around to try and confuse it.

What concerns me most though is that he is also not even following BK 'principles' (ask him why he does not follow the "Maryadas"? - mar-ee-adahs). So, he is a bullshitter from their point of view too. I do not doubt all you say is true, and I am sure there is more of it to come out, but from an orthodox BK point of view, he will have low to no standing. It sounds more to me that he is just on a sort of "guru ego" which the BKWSU empowers individuals with the ability to become and then uses them for a long and as far as they are useful providing free labor and bringing in new adherents.

At the same time, petty minded, spiteful ones fitted in wonderfully well.

You said it. I know it to be true ... Having money, or independent financial means, helps one "fit in" wonderfully too.

For the last years I tried to wake up my friend.

When to tell? It seems that from cult experts, you should never tell. Never tell they are in a cult. Just to be patience and be loving. But hey!!!! My life and your life is also involved.

I was a very peaceful being before I met my BK friend and got to know about the "teachings". I was retired, did not have to work and had a simple life full of God's wonders everyday. I was happy and tranquil, no worries, no bills to pay, money in the bank and felt completely free! Then I made the mistake to fall in love with a BK. Well, it was not love at first side but he was fun to be with. The relationship grew out to be a close relationship. Everybody in town thought we were a couple.

All I learned from this forum was that he could not realy be a friend but he was using me for his own comfort. I did not wan to believe it because he was so different. I got influenced and often thought .. .Oh well, you being so nice but really what is in your mind? I must be just a Shudra to you, a soul that needs to be saved.

I challenged him ... he said he was not using drugs, but when I arranged the opportunity, he did use drugs. He gets fully over the top in lokik situations, parties, etc and changes in a BK in a minute. He is spiritual but I believe he does not even know the full teachings of BK. On the other hand, I see his correspondence with the "family" and he is so NOT what he appears is real life. He lies to where he is, if he is with me, he tells someone on the phone he is at home. Depending on who it is, a lokik contact, he will say he is at my house, a BK contact he will say he is at home. So does he has two agendas? One for his BK life and one for his lokik life?

Still, I thought that was a good thing. Learning from all of you made me think that I was nothing to him, just a soul like everybody else. But I was doing everything for him, my life was completely dedicated to his well being. I cooked his food and he threw dristhi on it ... so, my food was not pure? One day i told him ... "if my food is impure then go eat somewhere else, I don't want any BK stuff in my house. No traffic control, nothing!" And he did ...! Well, not in front of me.

We did not speak of you and me but it was WE. I believed I was doing well showing him that a lokik life is great. We had so much fun, so many get togethers with friends. So many non-bk things that I started to get hope. Not yet knowing that all his appearance was just a game. Just a thing to do probebly to conquer Maya.

Well,he wants to overcome Maya, this friend about stepping out. And his first comfort will be that Baba said, " first your friends, than your family became your enemy". So how can he ever feel wrong?

I will always be Maya to him.

In short, I can say that I am in the process of re-evaluating my beliefs and my relationship with the BK world. I already distanced myself some, physically and mentaly, but do not know how far or where I will end up.

Whatever you decide to do, I am certain you will make the right decision.

You seem clear and well-balanced. Your presence is very much appreciated so thank you for being here.

It seem, for a while, I was completely losing myself (for I was in love with the teacher, not with The Knowledge). Many question arise ... "do not have any attachment to this world" ... "Forget everything" etc. It disturbed my life. My peaceful life.

I did my research. What I ended up with is a very disturbed life, knowing my friend is involved in a cult.

How can you ever tell someone how it feels? I have been thinking about that. See, it like this ... you have a child suffering anorexia nervosa and you see the child die.

Still there is nothing you can do.

As they say, you can bring a horse to water but you can not force it to drink.

So, dear Berkely, consider how strong you are. I can guarantee you, you have the best friendship ever, he will overload you with presents etc and fun time but all will be in "remembrance of his Baba".

You are "just a soul", like everybody else.

Your post is honest and very moving Jan.

Dear Jannisder

I am very sorry for the pain you suffered and are now leaving behind. Your relation with him was hopeless. Sooner the better you free yourself from this bondage. You have lived in the desperate situation of caring lovers and parents of addicted ones.

There is no knowledge and no teachers in this cult. We have been telling others lies fabricated from the BK Seniors as highest knowledge given by God and believed ourselves to be God's instrument teachers. What a self created illusion!

I am sure that your friend had the same passion and the same feelings of yours but he had to push the down and transform them into brotherly love! He must have suffered as much as you to control his feelings. It happened to all of us.

I appreciate your contribution to this forum very much and thank you in the name of all silent readers of this forum who are stuck in a similar situation.

He told me that my love for him is NOT unconditional, so even made me feel guilty.

I appreciate your contribution to this forum very much and thank you in the name of all silent readers of this forum who are stuck in a similar situation.

Its true ... Jannisder speaks out for many of the friends, lovers and partners of Brahma Kumari followers that go through exactly the same thing with the same simple hopes and desires. Her experience is their experience too and when they read it, I am sure they find strength and inspiration.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to where this madhouse is going. When will they find the integrity to say, "we were wrong, we were misled and we misled others" instead of constantly hiding, revising and destroying family's lives? I was looking at the "Environmental Initiative" mentioned on some other topic. It is just more of the same clambering onto yet another bandwagon.

I want to hear the developments of both of your experiences attempting to engage a BK on a honest level. It strikes me they are both just on an ego trip, using the BK to suit themselves and "empower themselves" to mess with others minds. In the old days, we would not have even considered them to be proper (pukka) BKs at all. They might have been tolerated but definitely sidelined.

I think it was Charlie in Australia who admitted not so long ago that it is difficult for the BKWSU to catch the same "quality of soul" as they did in the old days.

It strikes me that they are both on ego trips, using the BKs to empower themselves ...

I agree completely, they want the best of all worlds. They can convince themselves that they are, "Oh, so Spiritual" but they are using these people's friendships. What is highly spiritual about continuing a friendship, knowing that the other feels more (and, of course, a person knows) and not having the courage to choose either one thing or another?

Obviously it is probably more balanced to have friends, family, partners etc while one is following meditation, or whatever "spiritual" path a person is following, but the teachings of the BKs goes against and precludes these relationships happening in a natural way.

I knew BKs, who chose to partake of the BK life in an "a la carte" manner. I have no problem with that.

The still have the responsibility to be very clear about where they stand when engaging in relationship with others. And to be sensitive enough to know whether the relationship is hurting the other person.

Rayoflight,

You are concerned about your friends too. As long as they are getting something out of it, they are making the choice to be there. I think you can really only help when/if someone wants to come out. Then you can be there to give support.

He says I do not love him unconditionally and that makes me feel guilty

Please Jannisder, Do not let him do that to you as well

Like, does he love unconditionally?? HA HA HA!!

Or, is he saying that your love cannot compare to "God's Love" that he and the BK's have exclusive entitlement too?!

Excuse me while I puke.

The only excuse I can make for these "Friends" is that I also treated people badly, by which I mean the attitude I adopted was very wrong (arrogant and superior, ridiculous actually) and lacking in love and compassion. However, we also have a responsibility whether to stay or leave. And even if that life suits some, they maybe would be better to leave other people alone.

I think you can really only help when/if someone wants to come out. Then you can be there to give support.

Good advice, thanks.

Here is a metaphor:

The organization is the wife, the friend/"lover" is the mistress. The Brahmin never marries the mistress and always goes back to the wife.

Another metaphor:

The organization is a drug and the Brahmin is an addict. The "friend/lover" is the "spouse" but the addict always goes back to the drug and eventually the couple/family breaks up and the "friend/lover" loses their loved one.

I like the second one better.

What you say resonates deeply, rayoflight. I think you have it correct.

Their "hearts belongs to Baba". Its happens often. Even if a BK goes on, has sex, or indulgences in a relationship. They are deeply psychically corded to the god spirits of the BKWSU. I hate to imagine some of the utterly empty marriages that have been created because one or others of the partners cuts off on the inside.

Even normal human family relationships, 'like' and affection are criminalized as the sin of "attachment". individuals, couples, are not allowed to work through their karma together under the guise of urgency brought about by the imminent 'End of the World'.

Well, he told me even a long time ago while I was still hopefull.

"I am already married, I give the last time of my life to my spiritual Father".

They are deeply psychically corded to the god spirits of the BKWSU.

And it is VERY difficult to break that cord. I know because I went through it and the only reason I finally broke it was because of sheer determination and will.

I watched how my life was no longer mine. How my vision became clouded. I have always had strong intuition but I could no longer see anything. I was wasting away mentally, physically and emotionally. How could this be God's will, for God's sake?

It felt like angry spirits were following me around and causing blockages and problems for me because I was starting to realize the truth about the BK and telling people about it. Strange things like something pulling me down so I would fall to the ground suddenly. Wasps sneeking up out of nowhere and stinging me. I was always sick. Work blocks, friend blocks. I thought I was going crazy.

There were negative (dare I say evil?) spirits causing me to think that I was useless. But did it deter me or scare me away? No. In fact, it confirmed that this was definitely not a Godly operation. I was once so nauseously sick at a retreat that I stayed in bed all night. Then something very strange happened. I was miraculously better within an hour and got up as if I'd never been sick.

I prayed fervently to be released from this cord and then also experienced real healing miracles. That's when I knew there were all kinds of spirits out there. Those that worked for the BK and those that worked for God. I chose God and was finally freed. But these were subtle and spooky experiences that I wouldn't wish on anybody.

However, the fear is real and keeps many people from leaving because of the many threats in the Murli against "traitors" who leave the BK family and worse of all, Baba. I am here to say that once I cut the cord and became clear of what was going on, I let those spooks know that I was not afraid of them and to leave me the **** alone. With the help of God, I did get out and nothing bad happened.

It is not a Hollywood horror film. The worst fear is in our imagination and of course the manipulation in the Murli does a good job at sending all kinds of fear based messages into the unconscious mind. But once you realize you've been brainwashed, you just have to find the courage to face those ghosts and tell them to take a hike. As Franklin D. Roosevelt's famous quote states: "There is nothing to fear, but fear itself."

I would suggest compiling a list of provocative questions for newcomers who meet BK's for the first time and especially center heads who have mastered the talk.

Here are some examples:

1. Are you honestly happy?
2. Are you free to be yourself?
3. Is this the dream you had for yourself as a child?
4. What brought you here?
5. What keeps you here?
6. What does your family think of your involvement?
7. Do you see yourself retiring here?
8. Do you think your Brothers and Sisters care about you?
9. What do you do for fun?
10. Do you stay in touch with your childhood/university/work friends?

well, he told me even a long time ago while I was still hopeful. "I am already married, I give the last time of my life to my spiritual Father".

You know jannisder, I once had a conversation with one of my dear BK friends and he told me that when he first joined, he made himself a promise: never to marry the BKWSO. I just looked at him and thought, but you are married to the BKWSO. Don't you see??

So what happened? My guess is he cannot get out. He is trapped and anytime he tries to get out he gets blocked. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. The Seniors, the spooks, the Murlis, they're all prepared to cause whatever drama is necessary to block anyone who wants to leave, especially this Brother who was much too valuable to them. They say that everybody is free to leave if they want to, only because they know that the dirty work is all done subtly and incognito.

Thanks Rayoflight for this nice post, which deserves some comment (later, I want to watch the world Athletics championship now , with or without the spooks' permission!).

But I felt the urge to post a couple of lines, because of the sync with some conversation I had yesterday with an ex-BK friend. We were discussing differences and similarities between the BKs and criminal organizations and, in my opinion, the essence is that, karmically speaking, trying to control people's lives and assets, through subtle ways, manipulating their minds, is much worse than doing it openly.

Instilling fear and guilt through physical violence, guns and bombs, is possibly less effective. When someone can get hold of your mind, he can totally disempower and paralyze you.

They say that everybody is free to leave if they want to, only because they know that the dirty work is all done subtly and incognito.