The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

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tom

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

rayoflight wrote:I have learned that the spirit world is no closer to God than being alive on Earth. It is just another dimension.

Yes, exactly rayoflight. Just like we have here manipulators, swindlers, cheaters, there are many dark souls playing the role of big Saints, Angels, Prophets, as soon as they get one medium and/or one leader into their web.

It must be plenty of information floating freely in the space which these entities can steal and speak through the medium as some valuable pearls of wisdom. This was the reason of our initial attraction to the BKWSU and the reason of that first group's belief in the entity to be a very elevated soul of a prophet, which can not be explained by the subconscious mind of the mediums in this lifetime, as the mediums (Lekhraj Kirpalani, DG and the medium of the first group above who was a simple technician) were all people who had no background of literature and no proper education.

As soon as these entities get the attention of a larger group, they start to manipulate and dictate the orders to the group and give them promises of going to heaven, to have them all under their control. And they give to the group leader his/hers greatest wishes in their subconscious minds as gifts to let him/her obey to them: wishes like to be worshiped, to become a Messiah = world saver, to get very much power from the group members, or to get opportunity to satisfy his hidden lust of sex etc).

With the increasing number of the group members, these dark souls suck the energy of the believers and become bigger, higher and more influential until one day some members wake up, unmask them, and tell the other members the truth. It needs only a realization process of the members. These dark souls IMO play their role on the stage only when they find believers and audience.

The leaders, after this process, lose in the society their dignity, honor and self esteem. They stay behind without any income and become suspicious persons as cheaters.
rayoflight wrote:I did talk to Madeleine Tobias about the spooks and she said, "Pretty self serving of the group!"

LoL:)) Yes, like most of the psychiatrists she does not believe in spirits and explains the exploitation of such groups connected to an entity through one medium as deception and illusion of the group members through one or two evil group leaders.
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rayoflight

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

tom wrote:And they give to the group leader his/hers greatest wishes in their subconscious minds as gifts to let him/her obey to them: wishes like to be worshiped, to become a Messiah = world saver, to get very much power from the group members, or to get opportunity to satisfy his hidden lust of sex etc).

Interesting point, tom. Makes a lot of sense!

I can even relate to it myself but when the spook gave me what my unconscious wanted that nobody could know about but me, I became VERY suspicious about this so-called "God." Looking at a few Brahmins I know, the manifestation of their unconscious desires appear to be clear but I might add, have caused them many problems as well.
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ex-l

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

rayoflight wrote:I did talk to Madeleine Tobias about the spooks and she said, "Pretty self serving of the group!"
tom wrote:LoL:)) Yes, like most of the psychiatrists she does not believe in spirits and explains the exploitation of such groups connected to an entity through one medium as deception and illusion of the group members through one or two evil group leaders.

I do not know if Madeleine Tobias committed herself to 'believing' or 'disbelieving' in spirits as being real. I would expect her to be cautious by in any email correspondence but I think her response is fair enough either way ... that these things manifest as "serving of the group" psyche. In what other way are they likely to manifest?

I talked to an old, very educated and professional Sindhi who knew the Om Mandli and lived next door to Lekhraj Kirpalani. Two things I continue to emphasize for all new readers is,

    a) although there were numerous reports of psychic, mediumship and long term periods of trance where even children would be possessed by other spirits, there was no mention of Shiva in the Brahma Kumaris religion until after at least 1950 (Adi Dev and other BKWSU histories are all false), and
    b) the description of the of the psychic "manifestations" during the early days was far more vivid than what we have seen in the last 30 years or so. Their description was of the women "howling and screaming" at times.
I also recommend individuals to read over Joe Fisher's book, "The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts" much or all of which you can read, here. Your reports are fascinating Tom, and should be made into a book, but this I think remains one of the best studies of the phenomenon.

It is missing the point to "believing or disbelieving", or get sucked into any argument about it. The only thing one can say is that such groups, activities and whatever the "spirits" might ultimately be are never reliable and mostly parastic of individuals and society as a whole. They seem to thrive on lying and creating hubris. And what a better way could there be than to tell 9 great truths before a tenth even greater lie?
One of the cult leaders became under the obsession of the entity or spook, year after year totally controlled by the entity. Surrendered himself and his career to the orders of the entity, lost his dignity in academic circles, was labeled as a sort of idiot.

I cannot identify these both cult leaders as evil and psychopathic but as gone mad and became idiopathic under the influence of some spirits to which they willingly surrendered themselves believing they could save the world together. I think Dada Lekhraj became also lunatic in Om Mandli days as he was obsessed by the entities who were first coming the girls in trance, and later through the girls to him.

This above pattern is very common in such circles. It is a great shame we do not know more of the early days so as to be able to analyze it. But, yes, I think he was pretty much broken, his considerable family and wealth given over and lost to the "spirits" - then not named as Shiva - who predicted Destruction first during WWII and then 1950.
tom wrote:Yes, our groups have been for decades given the instruction - exactly as you are describing - how much to bring for Baba's Box in Madhuban ... and offered to Dadi Janki by the center-in-charge at the first meeting of the group with her in Dadis' cottage.

Sister Jayanti gave some years ago a morning lesson in Gyan Sarovar at the begin of the BapDada season, she said that we should give our contribution to Baba at the first day of our arrival, afterwards we get involved in shopping this and that and have nothing left for Baba.

How crafty!!! I almost had to laugh at the candour of it. How brave they have become ... and we can all be assured that to the Indians they are even more financially precocious.

Too right, they do not want to risk individuals waking up to the "naked Emperors", having a bad dose of Maya or being disappointed by their "meeting with God himself", do they? Many, as we know, as utterly disappointed by the meeting. What a better way to take their money on the first day. You can see how it preys on the most basic superstitions, religious anxieties and spiritual greed ... "the more I give, they more I will get, the more of my sins will be washed away, the higher status I will get in heaven".

I suspect also that there are practical reasons for "giving the money to specific persons", e.g. money going missing, or perhaps Janki "owns" the fruit of Western Empire and controls her own bank BKWSU accounts ... who knows with what else we are hearing?

Will someone please ask or find out?

audacity

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

Hi all,

this is a very interesting discussion and I think a very important one. I started a thread in Abuse and Recovery on experiences of possession about a week ago - more focused on personal experiences of psychic possession as a BK student rather than the mediumship of the BK leaders. However, it seems to be all connected.

I read Ex-I's post about the mediumship of BK leaders with interest:
b) the description of the of the psychic "manifestations" during the early days was far more vivid than what we have seen in the last 30 years or so. Their description was of the women "howling and screaming" at times.

This kind of matches the description of what happened to a young female BK in a center in Australia in the early 1980s. The only reaction from the BK center heads was to panic and send the girl off to a Catholic priest for an exorcism ... and I imagine the order/permission for that "solution" would have to had come from higher up. I never heard what happened to the girl after that.

I had a quick look at the Joe Fisher book "The Siren call of Hungry Ghosts" that Ex-I recommends. In the Foreword are these well-considered opinions about the spirits who give messages through mediums:
"The solution that Joe Fisher offers in this book - that many 'spirits' are little more than con-men who enjoy telling lies for the sake of it - seems to me highly plausible" ...

"The spirits were apparently fakes in the sense that they were not who they claimed to be. Yet it seems equally obvious that they WERE spirits - or, perhaps, some mysterious practical joker hidden in the unconscious mind of the medium herself ..."

It's amazing to me how little time most BKs - even the most scientific and intelligent-minded ones - give to any real consideration or analysis about this mediumship aspect of the whole religion. It's like people's critical faculties are quickly switched off completely by the flimsy rationale that, "the Murlis contain a lot of wisdom, and I feel good in meditation, so it must be God teaching". And when it becomes obvious that there is also a lot of contradictory hogwash in there as well, then that is quickly justified as God being poetic, or we mere mortals cannot possibly understand the deeper meaning of the metaphor blah, blah ...

I don't know where I sit with the spirit possession/psychic influence thing. I prefer to believe that we are ultimately in control of our own minds, but we are often far too easily-led by promises and supposed "truths" that hook into our deepest subconscious fears and desires - whether those messages come from human or spirit sources.
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ex-l

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

Interesting, I did not know about the case in Australia. How many more do we not know about?

I did hear of other people flipping out in Australia though, probably just "ordinary" mental illness but definitely brought about by their BK involvement. Ditto, in Japan. We have read here, on more than one occasion, of alleged cases of possession in India. At least one dealt was with by the Senior Sister standing on the victim and attempting to "caste out the evil spirit" and the individual being chased away.

The issue is that it is happening on a regular basis, all over the BK empire, and not being discussed. Audacity, you would have missed news reported here, about a year or so ago, that the BKWSO was training up young girls to become the potential replacement mediums for Gulzar.

Of course, we are already swilling around with our own psychologies and, of course, such incidents are rare and require strict identification ... but they are the life-stuff of the BKWSU. What absolute influence all this has ... I cannot tell.

If I was a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist, I'd tend to believe that who ever or what ever these "entities" are, they obviously need therapy themselves ... "just because you are dead does not mean you are enlightened" to quote the Tibetans ... but I would not dismiss them 'merely' as a manifestation of the individual. I would also guard myself from my own arrogance of presuming that I was the one who could completely 'understand' and cure them.

I also mentioned earlier, M. Scott Peck's "People of the Lie: The Hope For Healing Human Evil" not to suggest that it gave credence to the theory but as further documentation of the nature of its manifestation. Skipping any pretense at science, and accepting just the poetry, Peck defines evil as, "that force, residing either inside or outside of human beings, that seeks to kill life or liveliness".

I would say "Destruction ... absolute celibacy ... the denial of procreation ... detachment ... family breakdown ... karmic pre-determination ..." and other elements of the BKWSU does just that, very cleverly. I do see Brahma Kumarism as life affirming at all. What I see of it now is actually a very highly mannered hatred of a humanity which "it" clearly considers to be impure and valueless ... done by women to other women and children ... and supported by de-sexed male drones.

All this is starting to make me think that the 'spirit' of the BKWSU is also female spirit and it is more of a Kali cult than a Shiva cult.
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tom

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

ex-l wrote:I would say "Destruction ... absolute celibacy ... the denial of procreation ... detachment ... family breakdown ... karmic pre-determination ..." and other elements of the BKWSU does just that, very cleverly. I do see Brahma Kumarism as life affirming at all. What I see of it now is actually a very highly mannered hatred of a humanity which "it" clearly considers to be impure and valueless ... done by women to other women and children ... and supported by de-sexed male drones.

Yes, this is exactly the corrupted core belief of BKWSU, wrapped together with an attractive toli and offered to us while in the background a hearth touching Indian religious song is playing. And we all, under the influence of the entities, Dadis, Dadas, friendly center-in-charges, other BKs, nice atmosphere of the centers, have offered the same poisonous message to the new ones. If there should be a case, you should sue me also.
ex-l wrote:All this is starting to make me think that the 'spirit' of the BKWSU is also female spirit and it is more of a Kali cult than a Shiva cult.

Yes, thank you ex-l. It seems as if it is an earthbound female dark energy attached to the leaders of this cult, which with greed of power and manipulation-lust playing a male role.
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ex-l

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

tom wrote:Yes, thank you ex-l. It seems as if it is an earthbound female dark energy attached to the leaders of this cult, which with greed of power and manipulation-lust playing a male role.

I must say that I do not take credit for the idea above. The credit belongs to someone else.

For those that do not 'believe' in ghosts, spirits, kami or whatever ... it is entirely possible to read such as statement referring to an psychological "archetypal power" or group spirit.

Remember, none of the core Brahma Kumaris underwent therapy. The cult specifically prohibited any outside views, opinions and ... strange to say it ... but also, in my opinion, any self-development that was not centered around submission to the channeling or mediumcy of the group spirit (whether it be real or not).

When we read the early publications, who ever spoke or wrote them was clearly seriously undereducated, deluded, in trauma. They really are full of anger, hatred and loathing for the rest of the world and humanity really, however sweetly it might have been spoken ... and let us not forgetting the adoration of the power and wealth of their then British rulers.

It, being the Sindi Bhaibund, was a world which really only consisted of a tiny incestuous community and one in which any intelligent, powerful woman had a right to be angry at, hateful of and to wish destruction upon it. If only the demons they unleashed could have found satisfaction in destroying it, and its injustices alone.

Although, it is fair to say, that much of India and Hinduism deserves the same illwill for its treatment of women, have the Brahma Kumaris really done anything about that, or are they just replacing themselves at the top of a male dominated caste/guru system as a female dominated caste/gurus system?

It might be worth exploring the various wrathful or angry female archetypes in order to understand it better ... for example, the feelings of a barren or 'denied' woman against those other women who have simply loved and procreated.
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tom

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Re: The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

Post09 Nov 2009

ex-l wrote:I must say that I do not take credit for the idea above. The credit belongs to someone else.

Whoever thought of this idea please join the forum or please let somebody else speak your thoughts. I have the feeling that we are now coming closer to puzzle out the mystery around the BKWSU, run by bearded Dadis, mannishly Sister-in-Charges and feminine behaving Dadas and Brothers.
ex-l wrote:Although, it is fair to say, that much of India and Hinduism deserves the same illwill for its treatment of women, have the Brahma Kumaris really done anything about that, or are they just replacing themselves at the top of a male dominated caste/guru system as a female dominated caste/gurus system?

In India they are still burning the widows in villages out of sight, or the widow has to deliver herself as a sex slave to her brother-in-law and as slave to her mother-in-law.

Brahma Kumaris have done nothing to better the conditions of the women in the family and in the society. Yes, they have just replaced themselves at the top of a male dominated caste/guru system as a female dominated caste/guru system with the same cruel and merciless attitude of male dominates towards all women and children.
It might be worth exploring the various wrathful or angry female archetypes in order to understand it better ... for example, the feelings of a barren or 'denied' woman against those other women who have simply loved and procreated.

Yes, the key of the puzzle seems to be in this issue.

It is frequently said in the Murlis that thinking of having children is a mundane thought and a Kumaris who is born to become a future Deity would never get satisfied with such thoughts. (If somebody remembers the exact sentence, it would be great).
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