The truth about the corrupted Brahma Kumaris

well the BKs would say that it is not ending, just becoming wonderful again.

As long as your idea of "becoming wonderful again" includes the death of 6,000,000,000 plus people through Nuclear War and bloodbath civil wars, and the sinking of all continents except for India. Wonderful.

Kyle, welcome on board. Just two questions,

a) Did you go to the BK retreats of your own accord or with parent/family?
b) have you got to the level of being allowed to read the channeled spiritualist messages from a spirit that they believe to be the God of all religions speaking directly to them via their trance medium in India? Or are you still just at the salepitch level?

I do not want to offend you but there are people on this forum that have been involved with the BKWSU since the 1970s, been centers-in-charge, worked directly with the leadership, researched the organization's hidden history even most BKWSU teachers do not know about.

I asked the second question just to get an idea of where you are at in the BKWSU mental conditioning programme.

With humility, I must say that we know what the Brahma Kumaris present to the world ... their advertising ... which you neatly repeat here. We also know a little more about the reality of the movement. Please spend some time reading over the forum and library to get an overview of what is going on.

BTW, the BKs are not vegan, they are lacto-vegetarian ... and, yes, they have been predicting that "everyone says it's the End of World" stuff since the 1940s. Their god spirit predicting it to happen in WWII, 1950, 1976, mid-1980s; their leaders encouraging followers to believe it might be every "planetary convergence", natural disaster, economic crisis or war that has happened since 1976.

It is a good device for encouraging followers to give donations of money, free labor and properties. 2012 and Mayan calendar is just the latest of their way of string people along. It is old news.

You are being sucked in it exactly the same way we were sucked in. The BKs do not "feed and house" people. You might get a free sample of a weekend retreat or two and hypnosis classes but it will soon change as you become more and more conditioned by them.

It is called a "loss leader" in marketing terms and is not charity. It is an investment by them for a return. Which in your case is "free good PR" for them. Even if it is a little bit misinformative.

No offence intended.

Hello He-man and Kylemsenger,

If you don't mind, I would like to add my two cents.

Don't get offended by ex-l's questions. This forum functions in ways that the BKWSO doesn't: it probes and asks questions like any good journalist does to get to the truth of a matter.

If you have the time to read through some other threads, you will see that everyone has clarified their experiences because anyone can show up and say they are this or that and say whatever they want. But this forum is truly trying to break down as much input as possible, so details are important. It's not personal in any way.

The BK brainwash is deep and subtle and at times some may say they are ex-BKs and wish to be rid of the so-called "Knowledge" but it takes time. The people here don't just have years of experience as ex-l stated, but are also quite intuitive and can read between the lines. It's all meant to be helpful, not critical or judgmental. There is at times light banter in the forum, but generally, people write here to say something to heal, for public service or to get advice.

At times it can get heated because after all, we are human and we have feelings. And mostly, we've been deeply hurt by being involved with the BKWSO. We are trying to be real not perfect or detached to give the impression that we are above everybody else in the world (if you know what I mean). And we're not here to waste time because we have gone on with life too.

The probing questions have helped many people get clarity from the confusion that the BK "Knowledge" instills. Just consider yourself lucky that you haven't reached this point. But just because you haven't, doesn't mean that others haven't and that it is not a reality. The truth at times is ugly and unfortunately, many people don't want to see what is ugly.

Thanks for joining.

rayoflight

Ray is right Kyle, I am no ogre. I am just straight to the point and a little tired.

We heard all that stuff 20 - 30 years ago, and we have heard it all regularly since. every generation of BK that comes along thinks it is something knew and exciting. They change it a little to suit the times but it is all the same under the hood. We know what goes on. Much more than can even be published on this website. What I would like you to do is get to the heart of it all quickly.

For your own sake, do not confuse the outside with the inside. If you want to know what the inner teachings are, we will give them to you directly. We ... honestly ... really, really, really do know what is going on within the BKWSU; what the real teachings are, how they operate etc. If you are still young ... please focus on your education, your career and experiencing life to the fullest.

If you want to experience 'love', 'peace', 'self-esteem', 'satisfaction' or whatever ... get off your ass, get out there into the world, work hard and do some good in life. Don't become part of yet another generation to dance around for some old ladies who have been waiting for the world to be nuked for 70 years so that they can go and become the Emperors of Heaven, have 16,108 servants, and live in palaces of gold dripping with diamonds.

There really are cooler things to do. And, yes, they really do teach and believe all that.

Dear Kylemsenger,

firstly, hello and welcome.

Secondly, you are wrong about the BKs concerning money. I have seen members asked directly how much money they have by the Seniors and then told how much of it they should give ... and seen them then feel thankful for the advice. If you are deemed worthy, you might be asked to become a surrendered member. Then, of course, you'll have to give them everything.

I suppose the same happened for me, and I really did want to give. I believed in Shiva and The Cycle, for fecks sake. Once, I gave Dadi Janki a brown envelope stuffed with cash. I was taken there by a center in charge who had arranged the meeting. She sat between me and Dadi and took the money from me. Then handed it to Dadi and stole all my dristih, name and fame (hahaha ... inhouse joke).

They will not ask you for money at first. In fact, they will be the most generous hosts, always having time for you, will always be pleased to see you, willing to help in any way. But they will be actively embedding in your subconscious that this place is where you belong and you will feel better when you go there.

All I want to say is stay at a distance and enjoy them from there.

have stayed many times in USA Brahman Retreat centers and never is their any push for cash. At the end of a retreat one of the last things that is said is that in the back of the room there is a box where donations can be placed and they remind you that the entire retreat center and BK organization operates solely on donations. Thats it 2 sentences.

Are you talking about Peace Village? I know Peace Village. I have been there.

What you say is generally true for non-BKs retreats but BKs are expected to give the suggested voluntary contribution ($75 - $100 per night). They may not all be asked formally but many are. Some Centers ask the BK students to give their money first, before they are allowed to go to the retreat.

To a large extent Peace Village runs with the help of weekend helpers, mostly BKs coming from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Boston, who offer their time for a weekend. Even they are generally expected to pay the voluntary contribution, and some have been asked formally to do so.

Permanent residents, and long term helpers who have a source of income, are generally asked how much they earn and instructed to give a specific contribution accordingly.

They practice peace and love down to the fact that they even believe it is important to do all cooking with pure thoughts and love so that you do not eat anger.

True. They do believe it but they are not free from anger. Many times I have seen fights (yelling and even throwing objects) in Peace Village kitchen (and other BK kitchen), amongst the cooks or between cooks and others. Not to mention what happens outside the kitchen ...

Hi, new posters, welcome!

Unfortunately I can confirm that not only kitchens can turn into dangerous places in a BK centre but the whole flat and meditation/course room can become full of poisonous vibrations. Many sisters-in-charge are constantly busy in competing, resenting, grudging, arguing, slandering and undermining each other. It is very painful, believe me, to fall from the cloud you are on in the beginning of the love story with the BKs, thinking that you finally found your spiritual family of angels to realize, later on, that these people can be as unholy, or even more unholy, than the ordinary men and women they despise!

The non profit Yoga school is commercial and in many ways not spiritual at all! It is like a shattered dream, like when a child discovers that Santa Klaus doesn't exist . When I read about the illusion that knowledge is given away for free etc, I felt like laughing. And when BKt-pit clearly described, as an insider, what money issues are, my heart shrank because over the years, that principle has been stamped on more and more frequently to the point that, soon, no one will question any more why retreats have become less affordable for simple, non materialistic souls.

A "pukka" BK, by definition, is very likely to be broke, being an old soul with a lot of karma and having neglected education and career in order to do "spiritual service'; giving time energy and money to the cause of the Yagya (organization). The memorial of Draupadi being stripped, perhaps comes from here. The BKWSO caters for wealthy participants. If you look at the fees they ask for seminars, the places where they hold them, are not basic.

It is a nonsensical, serious abuse to ask followers to help for free as volunteers and at the same time not refunding the travel expenses to get to the retreat location and, on top of that, charging them stiff prices to be there without the privilege of even attending workshops or meditation session. Rather to be slaving in the kitchen or some other department. But one should be happy to be exploited: it is good karma.

I ended up writing something. In fact, I intended to say that in spite of the altruistic and over protective sharing that ex-BKs do on this Forum, the best way for someone to find out what is it really all about, is to go for it. Human beings need to burn themselves in order to learn what fire is.

When I was little I could not swallow pills easily and since I had to take some quinine, I ended up chewing it. Even if my mum had warned me about its bitterness. I never forgot that taste until now!!

So, try for yourself and see or, if possible, do as Mr Green suggested. Sample it whilst keeping a safety distance. But usually the nature of it is a "everything or nothing" affair.

Whatever falls into my mailbox!

Bhog Message Sr. Mohini, 6 Sep 2009 Peace Village 10th Anniversary

It’s a very auspicious day in many respects. It’s a big family, a big gathering, a celebration, a spiritual fair, many things. With that love, respect, and in remembrance of Baba, I offered Bhog to Baba. As we prepare to go to Baba, Baba also prepares to receive us. His reception in the Subtle Regions is always very unique.

This morning, when I was invoked by Baba, the Subtle Region and the whole way there was decorated. Generally, the Subtle Region is the land of silence. Today, it was also the land of festivity and because of the power of the gathering, it is so beautiful. Generally, what you see is light. Today, it was very colorful, with different frills. They were not like streamers as you see here but flowers like at weddings. There were many thousands of flower strings, and we were entering through them. It was not that the flowers were threaded, they were fresh. The flowers were dropping and forming that string. It was a very lovely experience to pass through that. It was very beautiful, royal, and fragrant because of the flowers, very cooling. It lasted for a few minutes until I passed.

Then Baba was standing, welcoming with His open arms. I am looking at Baba. Baba gave very, very loveful drishti to all of us. When Baba’s attention went to me, I took drishti from Baba. While taking drishti, it was a beautiful sharing. I said to Baba that on behalf of the family, Peace Village, and everyone, I have brought Bhog to offer. Baba lovingly took the Bhog, gave drishti, took offerings in a very beautiful way.

After accepting Bhog, Baba looked at me because I was a little bit amazed. Who plans for all this? Here, we know, we have a lot of planning. But who plans in the Subtle Region? It was such a lovely welcome. Baba looked at me and said, You know that each flower that is coming down was fresh because these were not just ordinary flowers. Each flower was a blessing.

Baba wanted children to enter the Subtle Regions to experience how each one is constantly showered with these flowers. Many of you had collected flowers, we had lots and lots of flowers. That’s the gift Baba gave. I shared with Baba. As you all know, Baba knows more than what we know. We only know what we see and do. He knows the significance and the purpose of each scene of Drama. Baba just smiled and said, “Very good news of children that you have brought.”

Today Baba wants to say that at every step that every child takes, there is always multimillion-fold result. Is it you take multimillion-fold steps, and you get one result? Or is it one step, and you get multimillion-fold result? Or it could be less, not multi-million, maybe half a million? Baba asked, 'Is it more effort or more reward? More reward? OK, very good.'

Baba said, when there is this experience of constant attainments and constant fruition, that means the step you are taking is very full. It has more and more potential. Baba said there are two things. One is sadhna, your personal effort. Second is service. These are two things which we are constantly striving for. Putting all our efforts toward our personal perfection, we call it sadhna and seva. Baba used two words: sadhna and seva. When there is a lot of sadhna, through your personal connection, your renunciation, and sacrifices, fruition is included within that step.

Now is the time that each Baba’s child should not think of taking a lot of steps, but any step I take should have so much power, and many different kinds of power. Within that step the result definitely is multimillion-fold. Baba knows that children all know about planning, doing service, and big programs. Now Baba wants focus: whatever you are doing, the step that you are taking should be in such a way that you experience that fruition.

All the time, Baba appreciates children because children have courage. There are children who, when they get thoughts of service or effort, they implement them. Then there are some whose thoughts get a little bit lost in, is the time right, should I do it? A little bit of power is lost in that.

Baba says, definitely, every step of courage brings abundance of many different types. Today, Baba said that the return is not only of your courage in the form of that, but also, there is the power which Baba gives to all of you. Baba appreciates whatever little or more everyone does. It is not that those who do more are appreciated. Everyone, even whatever little they do, is appreciated. The result of that is that you keep getting that help of power from Baba.

So each one of us had at least one flower. That flower then changed into a little lamp. You get another beautiful gift now. You have a little dia, a little lamp in hand. Now that we are on mid-journey, we need a little light. Then Baba said, This is the gift that is needed for your pilgrimage, always an ignited light In the end, Baba gave everyone a beautiful tilak on the forehead.

Baba said, that’s the tilak of victory and whatever happens, this tilak should not be erased for any reason, whether in awareness or in words. We say, “I’m not sure. I’m not this . . .” So it is erased at one level, and then starts affecting at different levels. That’s what Baba’s gift is. He began by giving a flower, that changed into light, and then he ended by giving a tilak.

Then, today, whatever everyone has done for the celebration, to come here, from India, from all over the US, from different parts, and from the UK we have guests. I know many other countries wanted to participate but timings are such that they couldn’t do it, but they send greetings from many, many countries. Baba remembered everyone. Baba said that in the end, this is just the beginning. I said to Baba that Br. Brijmohan was saying this is the end in a sense. Baba said every end has a beginning, and every beginning has an end.

This whole program which Baba has given for mega programmes is how we made a festival with the same title. They wanted to keep the word ‘peace,’ not only ‘power and protection,’ because it’s Peace Village. They kept the word peace, but it is the same umbrella. Baba said, This is the beginning. Keep seeing many, many new beautiful scenes of Drama. Never think it’s over. Don’t have this thought that tomorrow, the mela is over, let’s relax now, holidays. No, Baba said, It’s a new beginning. [Someone said, “It’s a pilot program.”]

These are the words of enthusiasm. A lot of them think, now we are going to take a break. We don’t want a break. It’s a new beginning, and we all should stay with that spirit, that enthusiasm. And yet more has to be done, and more has to come. You have to do something. You will see what is happening and you will know what you have to do. It’s a new beginning.

Baba gave lots and lots of love and remembrances. I mentioned that we appreciated Br. Brijmohan’s short trip. Baba hugged him like he hugged the Brothers yesterday. Did you feel that, Br. Brijmohan? Baba opened His arms and merged him in His arms, and really gave lots of love. Each one of us had the experience of Baba’s arms around each of us, that safety, that comfort, that love, which Baba expresses all the time. This is how Baba gave lots and lots of love and remembrances for everyone.

Om Shanti.

Peace Village looks more like an concentration camp to me.

Sister "Big" Mohini claims to be able to travel to another spiritual realm and meet with their God. Is there any evidence that she does, and that she is a psychic medium, or does she just all make this up?

It is a big bit of her status trip and, we were told, they are training up other young women to be mediums.

I mean, it is all so the same that anyone could just make it all up.

You BKs and ex-BKs know that BKs usually have to fill a form and get permission in order to be allowed to go to Madhuban each time they wish to go. I recently heard from a BK friend who lives in the USA that before going this year he was given instruction on how much he had to give to Madhuban, that he had to put it into an envelope and give it to a specific person. So much for voluntary incognito contributions!

He also confirmed that BKs in the USA are often instructed on how much to give when they go to Peace Village.

He has personal contacts with some of the BKs living outside Madhuban in Abu and was telling me that Dadi Janki actually owns property there.

I just remembered that, many people (especially the bunches that are invited to program such as Peace Conference and others organized to serve "contact souls"), go to Madhuban out of an interest in India and oriental philosophies, escorted by some sister in charge for whom they have paid a plane ticket. She becomes a sort of tourist guide, and this is why they often attach a short side trip to Agra, or something, so that the limited package, tour-like tourist crave is sated.

Sure BKs are permanently raising funds and their brazen face is growing bigger but, after watching the M. Tobias' video, something else came to my mind:

... paying for a service, is a way of testing the commitment and dedication of the client.

From other sources, I gathered that the BK security system, has tightened up in various way. They do not want the "unfaithful", i.e. not perfectly brainwashed folks to snoop and cruise around. So, asking for a definite sum in advance etc ... is a system to check how faithful you are or if you are a potential danger, free spirit, witness. Like M. Tobias said, "the guru knows your secrets and whether you are a food follower or trouble".

The BKWSO has many ways of screening the level of obedience. One simple one is clothing. If you don't bend and continue to follow your customs, those orchestrating the zombie army, will know straight away. Most of my friends, so to speak alternative BKs, had and have clashes with SS and DJ in particular; in vibes and verbally. How come?

Now, for the first time, I see this issue not so much as a matter of obedience and being a compliant pleaser or a pukka, good BK. That's the way they, the wanting to be scary gurus put it. From our point of view, is a matter of letting anyone brainwash you and control your life or not.

It is true that there is a "suggested" donation recommended for those going to Peace Village. It's such hogwash though. I mean, either make it by donation or create a fixed price. It's always so slippery. They brainwash you, weaken you and then abandon you if you don't comply with their recipe for self-destruction.

I think Madeleine Tobias' videos should have a thread of their own. They need to be seen because she confirms many of our topics in a professional and non-judgmental way. Plus she has nothing to do with the BKWSO so the information can seen objectively.

I recently heard from a BK friend who lives in the USA that before going this year he was given instruction on how much he had to give to Madhuban, that he had to put it into an envelope and give it to a specific person ... He has personal contacts with some of the BKs living outside Madhuban in Abu and was telling me that Dadi Janki actually owns property there.

How would someone that has never worked for money in her life "own" anything ... never mind valuable property?

How could someone that has taken property after property from other families and individuals ... because the end of the world was coming ... "keep" a property for herself? (From memory, I think there was actually a Murli point about this, something about Janki having joint ownership).

I recently heard from a BK friend who lives in the USA that before going this year he was given instruction on how much he had to give to Madhuban, that he had to put it into an envelope and give it to a specific person.

Yes, our groups have been for decades given the instruction - exactly as you are describing - how much to bring for Baba's Box in Madhuban which is collected by the 'group leader' = center-in charge at arrival in Madhuban at the first group meeting, and is put into a nice purse or envelope and offered to Dadi Janki by the center-in-charge at the first meeting of the group with her in Dadis' cottage.

Sister Jayanti gave some years ago a morning lesson in Gyan Sarovar at the begin of the BapDada season, she said that we should give our contribution to Baba at the first day of our arrival, afterwards we get involved in shopping this and that and have nothing left for Baba.

I think Madeleine Tobias' videos should have a thread of their own. They need to be seen because she confirms many of our topics in a professional and non-judgmental way. Plus she has nothing to do with the BKWSO so the information can seen objectively.

I agree. Madeleine Tobias' videos are worth than countless cult-exit books and bitter experiences.Thanks to Audacity.

It can be possible, that Madeleine Tobias leaves deliberately the fact of spooky influence or the spiritual factor under which IMO most of the cults are created and controlled, out of topic, maybe to make her statements clear and categorized under one topic,or most probably she does not believe in spiritual beings at all and explains some cult leaders' claims that they are under the guidance of some entities as illusions. I don't know, I have to read her books to understand her point of view to this topic.

Madeleine Tobias describes shortly a profile of cult leaders in bold outline as evil and/or psychopathic which, IMHO, is not a comprehensive definition of all cult leaders.

My close friends were involved in two different cults in different times. In both of them the group was under the guidance of entities who claimed to be from higher realms of Heaven and very close to God, and were claiming that they were bringing messages from God to save the humanity from Destruction.

Now, while I was with greatest interest watching Madeleine Tobias' videos, I remembered that in both of the cults to which my very close friends were once involved, the cult leaders, both in their mature age before they found the entities by random or were caught by the entities, both of them were respected and charismatic professionals with acknowledged expertise in academic circles and with excellent yearly income. Both were described by all friends and family members who later became followers of their cults, as a life long very good person with great care and love for humanity. Both were happily married with grown up children.

One of the cult leaders became under the obsession of the entity or spook, year after year totally controlled by the entity. Surrendered himself and his career to the orders of the entity, lost his dignity in academic circles, was labeled as a sort of idiot. A happily married family man, after he was promised by the entity to be in the near future Messiah, become a sort of chaser and had with the support of the spook with most of the women in his group love affairs in front of the eyes of his wife who was consolidated from the spook to be patient.

After some time the cult leader and his wife, as well as many of the families in the cult, became divorced because this entity in the name of God allowed and supported all members' love affairs even when they were married and their husbands and wives were active members in the group. But these comments and orders were given in private sessions from the medium in trance to each one of the cult members in absolute secrecy, so nobody knew what was ordered to the other one. In the collective session, the so called "Knowledge" was given and orders to different research groups was given by the entity. The cult leader was just one of the members sitting in the audience and obeying to the detailed orders of the spirit.

All big promises and predictions of the spirit were null, years long workshops on different issues were without any result, very big quantities of money were collected in the private sessions and nobody knew where the money was gone. One day, after a suicide attempt of a member, some members in leading positions started to ask questions to the entity in the sessions while the medium was in trance which, of course, were not answered. And so these leading members started to question close members to them about all orders of the spook which were given in private sessions.

One confession followed the other. And one day all of the many thousands of cult members got in their post a confidential folder full of testimonies, with nicknames, of what sort of orders they have got years long from the medium in trance in private sessions. And in few weeks, 95 per cent of all members resigned. The cult collapsed, the cult leader shut off the organization's legal body. Only a handful of them remained around the previous cult leader, meeting in a small room without the medium.

The other elderly cult leader, also a very charismatic and successful professional with a good mental health and happy marriage with grown up children, after he totally surrendered to some entities became an entirely different person. He left his family who were very concerned about his mental health but took care of them, and became celibate. A sort of Messiah. He became totally obsessed with getting written messages from the highest realms of Heaven. Many thousands of pages full of nonsense has been published.

Very educated cult members have spent years blowing their heads off to interpret these messages full of contradictions and crazy stuff (just like the crazy stuff of the Murlis we tried to understand in the BKWSU).This cult is very organized and very conservative in ethics. We have not heard any complaints from the thousands of followers, amongst them close friends of mine are since years going to the sessions, no records of any abusive behavior in many years.

I cannot identify these both cult leaders as evil and psychopathic but as gone mad and became idiopathic under the influence of some spirits to which they willingly surrendered themselves believing they could save the world together. I think Dada Lekhraj became also lunatic in Om Mandli days as he was obsessed by the entities who were first coming the girls in trance, and later through the girls to him.

I cannot identify these both cult leaders as evil and psychopathic but as gone mad and became idiopathic under the influence of some spirits to which they willingly surrendered themselves believing they could save the world together. I think Dada Lekhraj became also lunatic in Om Mandli days as he was obsessed by the entities who were first coming the girls in trance, and later through the girls to him.

It makes sense. BKs would feel you are insulting Brahma Baba by calling him a lunatic!

But it is only a matter of definition. They say that "God started speaking to him and through him", and we all think that it's safe to obey to God's orders and believe to whatever the branded, benevolent spook says.

It is mentioned in Avyakt Murli, how evil spirits try to do their work. How possessions will increase at the time of Destruction and mass death. Baba warns us about the potential danger of trance and bans not appointed trance messengers.

M. Tobias underlines the "impure intentions" or wickedness of cult leaders, how they don't care for your welfare, use you and enjoy your suffering. The BKs are no less in messing up people's minds and lives. There are many forms of cruelty involved, for example when they impose on you to quit your family, partner, profession or city to go and do service in some alien place away from home. Being patient and accepting the abuses of a bossy sister in charge, etc ...

But spiritual seekers accept the axiom that "no pain no gain". Also the Bhakti idea that if you suffer you will go to Paradise. Possibly this is why we accepted a high degree of sadomasochism in our relationship with the BKWSO.

Thanks for sharing those stories, tom.

You clearly pointed out how so many people are willing to follow disembodied spirits, or ghosts, thinking they are wiser because they are on the other side and therefore, "closer to God." I have learned that the spirit world is no closer to God than being alive on Earth. It is just another dimension.

I did talk to Madeleine Tobias about the spooks and she said, "Pretty self serving of the group!"