Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
  • Message
  • Author
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post13 Jan 2010

Sorry to interrupt John ... and the question of ShivBaba's non-existence before 1950, nishay?
the BK on the block wrote:Regarding Murlis. No, I cannot upload them on the computer. As it is strict instruction from our Senior Sister, not to leak Murlis as there are so many anti-parties like the Shankar Party misusing them.

ShivBaba, in the Murlis, says that BKs can have them and should read them many times a day. If you read the 'Murli requests from BKs to BrahmaKumaris.Info for Murlis topic', you will see that most or all requests are from faithful BKs, separated by work, age or illness.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post13 Jan 2010

nishaybuddi wrote:Regarding Murlis. No, I cannot upload them on the computer. As it is strict instruction from our Senior Sister, not to leak Murlis as there are so many anti-parties like the Shankar Party misusing them.

But the BKs incharge are also changing and misusing them.

What many would like to see are true unedited Murlis, which even BKs do not get to see.

Why do you think there is only 5 years worth of Sakar Murli in circulation?
What happened to the other 20 or more years of Murlis up to 1969?

jann

friends or family of a BK

  • Posts: 1227
  • Joined: 29 Jan 2007
  • Location: europe

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post13 Jan 2010

The BK invention witch they call God, is not a loving Father that unconditionally loves ALL his children. He is a dictator demoralizing the world outside BK.

"You have to remain cautious of the company of those who do not have remembrance of the Father in their intellects, and whose intellects continue to wander here and there. You should not sit next to them, not even touch them, because those who do not stay in remembrance spoil the atmosphere."

"Let go of the code of conduct of the impure family clan and the opinions of society and accept the things of the unlimited Father."

"Do not waste your time thinking about other souls."

"Do not have any exchange with impure souls. In order to go to heaven with honour, you definitely do have to become pure."

"Natural calamities and the inventions of science through which the rubbish of the whole world will be cleared away. They are your best servants and slaves, those who become your helpers in cleansing everything. Then, all the elements of nature will be under your control."

"You no longer have to stay in this dirty world. You understand that souls will become separate from their bodies and return home. Why should you look at those bodies? Therefore, your intellect should not be drawn towards anyone’s name or form. Even by having dirty thoughts, your status will be destroyed."

" You must not remember anyone except the one Father in your final moments. In order to achieve this, do not allow your heart to become attached to anyone. Do not have love for the dirty bodies. Break your Iron-Aged bondages.


And the list goes on and on and on.

Now who are these dirty souls? Your parents? You're children, friends, family, who cook impure food for you? Crying in their unhappy, sick and dirty world?
And of course you are told to love these souls but what is printed abouth these souls in your mind by reading Murli, Gods "loveletter" day after day?
And there is where the actor comes in and just pretend.

nischaybuddi

BK

  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2010

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post13 Jan 2010

and the question of ShivBaba's non-existence before 1950


I don't understand. ShivBaba's non-existence? ShivBaba started this Yagya in 1936 through his Sakar medium Brahma.

regarding other querries, they are simply avoidable doubts should be thrown out immediately.

Baba's Murli should be taken positively.
See.. Gyan is like sword having edges on both sides.. use it for your upliftment.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post13 Jan 2010

nishaybuddi wrote:I don't understand. ShivBaba's non-existence? ShivBaba started this Yagya in 1936 through his Sakar medium Brahma.

Dear Nishaybuddi, I refer to my previous post about reading the history section.

There you will find documents released by the BKSWU at the time stating that Dada Lekhraj was God and the arrival of Shiva Baba did not come until 1950.

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

  • Posts: 509
  • Joined: 14 Jun 2007

Re: Stay on the Ship.... Please....

Post13 Jan 2010

Dear nishaybuddy,

Go to the Library, here: down.php

Scroll down the files list until you come to "original cycle.jpg" and click on that.

This is an original poster of the Brahma Kumaris. If the software in your computer allows you to enlarge the image big enough you can see in very small prints in the lower left corner, below the address, outside the frame of the poster, that it was printed in 1949 in the Sind Observer Press, Karachi.

Now look at the picture and read the text.

You will see that there is no mention of Shiva and that Brahma is called Divine Father Prajapati God Brahma and that he is referred to as being

    the Seed and the World Almighty Authority... who has revealed His identity as the well-known Lord Sree Krishna and that The Knowledge of the beginning, middle and end of the World Cycle (World Creative Play) has also been revealed through Divine Insight bestowed by Prajapati God Brahma.
You will notice also that it says that Prajapati God Brahma has re-incarnated in an ordinary human form ...

    like a Kalpa ago on the banks of Hindu Saraswati River in the year 1937 A.D., and has organized the most supreme Rajsuva Asvamedh Avinashi Gyan Yagya which lasts for 12 years through the Divine Power of supreme "Aham Brahm Asmi'" faith[/i][/b].
Then it goes on warning that

    the present final International Atomic War... as well as numerous Natural Calamities... shall, within a year or so, become the cause of merging innumerable Kali-Yugi irreligions into Infinite Divine Light like Kalpa ago.

What does it tell you?

To me it means that they did not know about Shiva yet and that they believed that the Yagya would end and Destruction would happen in 1949-1950.

    Why would they have skipped telling the world about Shiva the Purifier if they knew about him and believed that Destruction was imminent?
It also appears that the concept of the 5000 years cycle came before Shiva. Where did it come from?

Of course it proves that the story that we were told about the episode of the first words spoken by Shiva through Brahma's mouth in 1936 ("Prakash swarup, Shivohum, Shivohum ...") is a lie. It also proves that Baba is lying in the Murlis when he says: "I named this one Brahma".

The question remains: When and how was Shiva introduced and why has it been covered up?

Until we get a decent answer the least I can say is that none of it can be trusted as being true.

You may have nice experiences of love, peace and bliss. I do too even if I lost the faith in BapDada and his knowledge. Many ex-BKs, PBKs and non BKs have those experiences also. On the other hand, I know many BKs who do not have them.

because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2009

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post14 Jan 2010

Om Shanti Nishaybuddi,

I don’t intend to attack on your Nischay on GOD, but as ex-l said, faith is for Bhakti, don’t you think so? And we are gaining Knowledge, Knowledge itself means “to know the reality”.

OK, as you say, have faith, we will. But how long, how far, and on whom?

Do you have FAITH, that The Knowledge is applied practically in the organization? For instance take 2 days before Murli point ... “This is a family, all are children ... Sitting with Mother and Father”. This organization is considered as a family isn’t it? Have you noticed any care, sympathy, love and affection among family members? They treat it as Maya, though it is not applicable for BIGs.

The people joining them are the family members, till the period they are “giving” otherwise, don’t even think of them, they will become “Maya” as soon as they go. If they want anything from you, they are not allowed, as it will increase “karmic account”.

The Father, as you say supreme, don’t know the exact numbers of his children, sometimes it is 5,000,000,000, sometime it is 5,500,000,000 and recently it is 6,000,000,0000.

No Nishaybuddi, No ... It is not knowledge coming from God ... It is something else ...

Try, experiencing God outside BKs, He is still there, He is still with us ... OK! Tell me, is it essential to drink “Bisleri” water or if, you are not agree that, “ONLY BISLERI” water is the real water, elsewhere you will not find water? Is it so? The company is selling water, putting their brand on it, saying it is only PURE water. Gradually, we start believing, and then the other water seems to be poison for us. But in reality it is not so. THEY ARE SELLING ”GOD” PUTTING THEIR BRAND NAME ... PLEASE WAKE UP ... YOUR FAITH WILL WORK ELSEWHERE TOO.

Because of good experiences we had, in this organization, we started believing everything without having evidences like 5000 years identical cycle, no of births, and others ... In the same way, it will collapse, once we loose faith because of impracticality of Knowledge.

Thank you

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post14 Jan 2010

Hello Nishaybuddi,

I hope you do not get frightened off. I think it is brave of you to come on the forum. Also I think it would be really good if discussion could continue. After all we are not such a threat asking questions. Surely there are answers for these questions without reverting to catch all phrases like, "it cannot be put in words".

I am aware that it can be frightening to have one"s faith challenged, but I do not think that is the purpose here. In fact it would be very crass if it were. Really if someone gets value out of worshipping a frog, without doing harm to others, then that's their own affair.

However, whether the teachings of the BK's turned out to be true or not, and there were valid explanations given in answer to the questions, the followers should not be afraid to see where things are wrong. And unfortunate things , inadequate or no responses have been given to people in trouble.

It is many years since I have been a practicing BK. In the beginning when I stopped going I went through many years of believing the dogma that I had failed, 'could not make it", but eventually I came around to realizing on the contrary "I did not want to take it" . I believe that God will judge me for who I am. Does not God see hearts. What Father/Mother would want a child to stay in a situation where they feel there is wrong and non truth. Many times on the forum, it has been stated that it can depend on the centre and the persons running that centre the experience that a follower might have. You BK followers should not be afraid too see where things are wrong, and speak up about it. Courage is one of the qualities we were taught to cultivate.

As to being jealous of those who stayed. I am still in touch with BKs and have met up with quite high ups over the years since I left. Some of them may be better people than I, many had not seemed to develop at all in those many years.

I am also interested to note that although you have been a Yogi for forty years you are still under strict instructions from Senior Sister. How much younger than you is she, and what gives her the qualifications. I suppose that, and the notion of those who leave not being good enough brings us back to the subject of Karma, which I would like to explore in the "What is RAj Yoga topic?". Why would the BKs not want to address our questions? Surely God would want that, after all we were all close children at one time? Would that not be huge service, explaining the truth to us?

I hope you do not take this as a personal attack, because it is not. Neither I think is anyone trying to undermine your faith.

With kind regards.

nischaybuddi

BK

  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2010

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post15 Jan 2010

Dear ex-l

ex-l your posts seems to be taking revenge with the Godly students, who are committed towards the change of world and to bring heaven on this planet.

What’s wrong with you, what is your problem, what are your intentions after all ...?

You support the BKs who are leaving Gyan, who became weak, leaving God’s canopy, instead of motivating them you say that, now they are coming towards light?

Can I ask you a question? How long you were in this Gyan ... What experiences you gained? How you can say so confidently that
Well, now you know all about how cults works and can in time become cultures ... how we become owned and possessed by them ...

Do you think, the thousands and thousands of people who are following this Gyan are fools? Don’t be a science greedy, ex-l.

Don’t you feel that the almighty is establishing a deity kingdom with full of peace and happiness?
Don’t you have any fear of using harsh language ...
If they told the truth, it would probably kill them (I am speaking of the leaders here not the earnest followers).
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post16 Jan 2010

nischaybuddi wrote:Can I ask you a question? How long you were in this Gyan ... What experiences you gained? How you can say so confidently that ... the thousands and thousands of people who are following this Gyan are fools?

I have no idea what a "science greedy" is ... but I am happy to answer all your questions.

But, before I do so, can I ask the smallest politeness?

Reading the questions John, BKtipit and I asked to you up above ...

    would you answer them first?

a) Who, when, how and why did the BKWSU introduce spirit entity they call ShivBaba at some time around 1950?

Surely such a momentous correction or revelation must be recorded SOMEWHERE in the BKWSU? Why has it been covered up, why has the history been falsified, by whom and for what reason?

b) If there was no God Shiva in the BKWSU, no knowledge of him, no mention of him until after 1950 - which is true - how were the early Brahma Kumaris purifying themselves or having Yoga? Who and what were they having Yoga with?

The second one at least is a very important, very critical Gyani question.

Thank you.

nischaybuddi

BK

  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2010

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post16 Jan 2010

I never questioned about the history, and other aspects of Knowledge. As far as I am concerned I was given the introduction of Shiv Baba (point of light) giving all The Knowledge through Brahma. I got some good experiences and then I followed and believed only on Murlis. Though I had many hurdles following them like the Psychic ones (disturbing mind) as mentioned in several posts ... but if one go on following Shrimat they went off.

I never found any hint that there was no GOD Shiva till 1950. I learned it through this site only. But I don’t bother about it.

Secondly, I never asked anybody that how they were meditating in the early years. Of course, I read the book on Brahma Baba and other literature where no where it is mentioned. Only the word Yoga is used, and how they were doing it is not given

All I believe is on Faith, after all one has to have faith on his parents, that they are really his parents. isn’t it?

Some times I do read books of Vivekananda ...

I wish to write a scrap from Practical Vedanta fitting the logic of faith.
“Feel like Christ and you will be a Christ; feel like Buddha and you will be a Buddha. It is feeling that is the life, the strength, the vitality, without which no amount of intellectual activity can reach God. Intellect is like limbs without the power of locomotion. It is only when feeling enters and gives them motion that they move and work on others.”

Lacs and Lacs of BKs are having strong faith that supreme power has come to make them Deity. They are feeling that, they are becoming a Deity. One day they will ...

Through your posts it seems that you are doing some kind of research or so, based on BK teachings. But what I feel that the work of God can never be put in theories. Gods power is immense, we can never understand it ...

Thanks
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post16 Jan 2010

Brother, I am seeking knowledge ... the true and complete knowledge. Not stopping off half-way in blind faith.

Now that you know that there was no God Shiva, no point of light, mentioned before 1950 ...

    does it not seem strange to you, or even unethical, that the stories written in Adi Dev and Lekhraj Kirpalani autobiography have been falsified?
    or that the Murlis are being re-written by human beings ... that it is no longer the pure word of God?
If you truly love and are entranced by Shiva or BapDada, do you not want to know about his real birthday ... his real emergence into this world ... how and when his name really came out ... the changes and discussions in the Yugya when it did?

    Why would the Bigs hide that from us?
    Do you really think they would have not noticed and questioned the change from God Brahma to God Shiva?
    How were they able to keep up a lie for 60 years and hide all this from us? See original poster, here
Can you not see how interesting that is!?!

nischaybuddi

BK

  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2010

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post16 Jan 2010

Even if we know it, what will we gain.

All we have to do is keep remembering Baba in order to wash out our past birth's sins and to go with honour in our sweet home Paramdham.

That is most important. So we have to keep all (?) aside.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post16 Jan 2010

ex-l wrote:How were they able to keep up a lie for sixty years and hide all this from us

I would be interested to know 'Why' more than 'How'.

The How they keep things hidden is easier; they discourage questioning, they encourage obedience. A skewed sense of loyalty makes the followers scared of any challenges to the teachings. They are taught that they will be tainted by negativity of anyone who questions. Maya etc.

The Truth should stand up to any challenges and questions. And these questions that ex-l are asking are not exactly so profound that words can not be found to answer them.

O.K. Nishaybuddi. You are happy with your experience and the why's and how's don't bother you. But others do question when something seems not right or does not ring true, or they simply want an explanation for something they do not understand. Does that make the questioners not good enough for God. ? Integrity is another quality I remember being encouraged to cultivate during my time with the BK's.
Nishaybuddi wrote:Lacs and Lacs of BKs ... are feeling that, they are becoming a deity. One day they will ...

Lacs and Lacs of people over time have chanted, "I am Shiva, I am Shiva ..." but I do not think they became that.

Lots of people also regularly are convinced that they are 'Jesus" the 'Buddha' or Mohammed.

They are diagnosed as having delusions of grandeur.

However, as a new ex-BK has this week pointed out, they continued going to their centre because of the power there. You also said that you have experienced the psychic hurdles. One of the questions that is explored here is trying to understand that power. Of course, if you believe it is God, I suppose that is the only answer you can give.

But can you not understand that it is difficult for some people to put aside inconsistencies that appear to amount to gross deceits, and that the Truth is either the Truth or it is not. It cannot be the Truth if it is peppered with Lies or Withholding of the truth.

nischaybuddi

BK

  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2010

Re: Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Post16 Jan 2010

Thank you starchild

The real question is of power, in only 70 years of time the expansion of BK is enormous. You can feel that power from Madhuban to small BK centre of small village. Where is that power coming from?

How people feel there mistake, without asking so? They internally start realizing that they have to improve, improve, improve ... This feeling we can not experience in outer world. In BK centres, that feeling automatically comes. Sometimes it become impossible to speak out if you have not enoughly purified yourself. Who is making us to feel so? That to, not only in one Madhuban. The Power is in every BK centre, don't you feel so?

Can Science tell what is that power? Or who else can give us such realization?

One can see the face of Dadi Gulzar after entry of the supreme power, her voice changes. Every thing is in front of thousands of people. How long one can deceive to such a huge public out there?

Tell me.
PreviousNext

Return to Newcomers