Stay on the Ship ... Please ...

Now, let us ask another question ... which Nischay will also use the same slippery Brahma Kumari techniques to slip away from ...

When "God" (according the dubious Brahma Kumaris leadership only) first came to Earth ... he did not know about Judaism. He did not know that the Jews existed. He called them Islam. (The evidence is here).

Now, please, on a scale of 1 to 100 ... how big a mistake is that? It is not just "The Knowledge was incomplete".

I can tell you now, the rest of the world's jaw is wide open. On a scale of 1 to 100, it is about 900,000% wrong!!! How can "God" be so dumb and NOT know about Jews!?! ... And worse than not know about Jews ... call them Islam!?!

It is not God. How can it be? How did the slippery Brahma Kumari leadership handle this? ... They destroyed the evidence, lied about to followers, and re-wrote the history to cover up for their god spirit. Making their god spirit look smarter than it is.

There is no other answer ... those are the FACTS. We have the evidence now ... because in their pride, (and the BKs are full of pride) or the idiotic mentality of Lekhraj Kirpalani and others, they sent the evidence all over the world where it now exists beyond their Stalinist control. (Stalin had the terrible habit of historical revision).


Now, it is interesting to slowly analyze the response by nischaybuddi to understand how the BKs work. It is a very typical technique used by practised BKs and taught by their leaders ... by example. Even though it might be spoken softly and quietly;

• he ignores the main substance of your questions ... he sidesteps them and refuses to become drawn into discussion
• he then applies a negative value to those valid questions calling them "doubts" rather than "questions" ... they are very good and valid questions.
• he tries to seed doubts in your mind about yourself .. dividing yourself (there is no big deal to this, every human is divided, every one thinks. People just don't try and exploitation other people's divisions, only cult leaders, politicians etc do).
• he then insults you, suggesting that you are not "clear" (and he is) ... it is a technique to slightly imbalance and provoke you.

Behind this, there is the exploitation of the idea that people who leave the cult only do so because they are unable to follow the disciplines. He hopes to exploit mental programming that has been inserted into you by 100s of Murlis and 1,000s of class that "to leave is to fail" ... "to leave is weakness" ... "do not question" as the Sindi who has practised mind control and dishonesty for decades, Janki Kripalani, often tells her followers.

Of course, none of that is true either. It is just cult mind control. Try getting a straight answer out of a BK leader ... ha!

Many 'inside' BKs and BK leaders cannot follow them (the BK leaders who started legal action against us had a relationship and secretly married whilst she was a center-in-charge). Many outsiders and non-BK can. They are no big deal.

What is important in life is for you to have your critical faculties working and to have enough self-esteem NOT to be dominated by others mind control ... as practised by the BKWSU.

In the BKWSU, your critical and intellectual faculties ... powers ... are weakened, removed or never developed (according to your age and abilities). You are trained to become mindless puppets ... robots ... with a simple programme. You are trained to lie and deceive to outsiders. You are trained to be submissive to the Sind leaders and their chosen puppets.

This training is reinforced by hypnosis and trance techniques that act like an anaesthetics whilst your intelligence and morality are being removed slowly ... but it also involves a psychic level; a Siddhi level of activity perhaps (I don't know the specific term). It is really no big deal. So ... Lekhraj Kirpalani, Om Radhe and others gained some Siddhi power over others ... big deal.

They were not given ... nor did they learn ... intelligence, integrity or morality. They only learnt to manipulate ... for what? I do not know because the game is not over yet? So they became mediums for some other soul ... big deal. Your questions about the nature of that other soul are fair.

The evidence so far only suggests social climbing; power and status ... but we know what their ultimate agenda is. Destruction.

So they became mediums for some other soul ... big deal.

May I ask, is this in the control of an individual to become a medium for some other soul?

If we accept the idea literally, that there are one or more individuals as souls involved, there is a usually a division made between:

• mediumship - in which the relationship is voluntary, and
• possession - in which the relationship is involuntary and out of control for the victim or host.

In both mediumship and possession, there seem to be both the possibility for relationship with single and multiple spirits. Mediumship would include just the ability to hear, see, smell or feel spirits in one's aura; or full-blown channeling as Gulzar (and other non-BKs) is meant to be doing. That is to say, one personality ceding control of a body to another.

People also talk of "walk-ins" where one souls "dies" and leave their body but the body is taken over by another spirit-soul. Even active mediums warn and have to fight against possessions.

(The BKWSU possibly introduces a third concept, let us call it "acharya-ship". That is where there is a kind of "divine" or good possession, e.g. Buddha, Christ etc.)

Early, we have discussed both that the BKWSU is currently training new mediums in the USA, younger women to take over Gulzar's job when she dies, and in the early days was awash with both mediums and possession. That is, there were different medium and different groups around them, e.g. The Golden Circle in which Janki Kripalani's group was said to have played a part.

Having spoken to various non-BK mediums in my life, on a friendly basis, many of them directly relating the time when their spirit guides presented themselves, spoke about the necessary sacrifices they had to make to be accepted as mediums ... "the deal" in other words ... and some were initiated into a relationship with spirits. This happens in most spiritualist churches in the West ... and seemingly all happened in the BKWSU.

The BKWSU is highly secretive about how it trains its mediums, how they choose and become mediums, even who is a medium ... and who is just making it all up. Numerous BKs young, old, famous and unknown, have psychic gifts but it is publicly discouraged. Likewise, the stories of the nature of the early days in Om Mandli have been whitewashed. The "spirit possessions" were much strong and certainly not voluntary. Tales are also told about non-voluntary minor possession of BKs, negative spirit influences and exorcisms by rough senior BKs.

There is a lot of spiritualist (not spiritual) activity around BKs. People have come here looking for explanations for spiritualistic influences around them, e.g. black "clouds" of energy, mental psychic attacks and so on. What would have been called 'evil spirits' in the old days and what some might try and explain with pseudo-science these days.

In the old days, amongst the Sindis, there was also a lot of talk about what happened to Lekhraj Kirpalani ... was he possessed by some spirit ... did it happen to him after he went to see some Bengali saddhu ... it appears even in the Murlis to have happened whilst he was in the east of India, Calcutta side, not in the Sind.

As an introduction to this all, I always recommend Hungry Ghosts by Joe Fisher, not because I think the *spirits* involved in the BKWSU ... because there are many ... are hungry ghosts but because the principles and experience involved are so similar. Instead of accepting what he is told, Fisher goes to research everything the channeled entity tells him and, strangely, finds it all 90% ... but always failing. Hinduism and spiritualism in the West both teaches us of the possibility of many times, or realms, of spirits ... some higher and wiser than human beings.

When he confronts the spirits, they become enraged at him doing so ... it was all a cover for something else.

I am not laying this down as a religion. I am not say, "believe this". Some of the effects might be delusions and some might be mental illness ... but what is strange is how Joe Fisher is seduced and emotionally possessed by the spirit ... he falls in love with it and becomes addicted, just like we do with BapDada ... and how he is then misled. He is also set up to become a channel or medium for another spirit.

This is always where I raise another question about BK Raj Yoga practises ... that once you get into it not, it is just "meditation" ... one is being set up to act as a channel for other spirits ... who? Many BKs have spoken to me of feelings of a battle.

Thank you for asking.

Then, is it possible to have a choice of taking a new body after leaving the previous one? As BB has not taken a new body and he is using DG body for its task?

I have no idea. I could only offer you theories as I have done above. I am incapable of divining what is going on. Please understand what I am saying here and where my point of view is coming from. The point I want to make is right at the bottom.

You would really have to ask the questions; is it really Lekhraj Kirpalani ... what influences was Lekhraj Kirpalani under when he was alive ... what influence is he under now ... where is he now ... has he not already taken a new body ... do we know it is him using Gulzar's body ... and for what task?

All we know for sure ... at present ... is that the BKWSU leadership has told us is NOT true. All the BKWSU leadership have to do, is start telling what IS true. BK adherents presume "The Task" is what the leaders says it is ... but do the leaders know? What is their track record for:

a) being honest,
b) acting with integrity, and
c) 'getting things right'.

"The Task" might just easily be to destroy humanity ... that is demoniac. Money and status ... that is demoniac.

Most of the good things about the BKWSU have come up from the grassroots AGAINST the wishes of the leadership and despite their attempts to stop them, e.g. villages project, hospital project, improvement in diets, even the Positive Thinking and Management courses ... I can remember back to The Million Minutes of Peace (which was successful and came from Australia, Janki Kripalani and her puppet Jayanti were deadset on doing Peace Marches.

There is far more evidence to suggest that is it all a subtle demoniac power than a divine one ... a demoniac power using a false representation of spirituality in order to carry out its will ... the destruction of family's lives leading to the ultimate nuclear powered death of humanity.

If you ask me, the leadership's record in the 3 aspects above is pretty poor. For me, it is all about

a) the practise of deception,
b) false predictions and exploitation, and
c) the ambition of worldly status and gain. It is littered with stupid and vain wastes of money and indulgences (... why does "God" need to collect gold from poor Indians to give to rich and powerful VIPs!?! We know that goes on in the BKWSU)

.
I cannot believe those are "high" spirituality in action. I cannot believe that "God", or even higher spirit entities, has to employ tricks.

OK, might be higher than most average people and higher in ambition than most average people ... but it is truly all "very enlightened"?

Someone else wrote about "false prophets". In Bhakti, it is said,

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign god who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

For there shall arise false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Which one amongst us is truly qualified enough to tell apart a true 'prophet' from a false prophet? If you accept the 'Knowledgeful' point of view ... which is the point of view from which I am writing ... "religion is all a memorial from The Confluence Age".

So, is this not a memorial too?

You started me shaking ex-I,

Will you please summarize what you mean to say?

Their teachings in summary is as under.

1. You are a soul, sweet child of sweet Father, Father is also a soul like you but he is supreme
2. Father has come to establish a deity religion, for which he needs 900000 soul who can purify
themselves with Yoga. So he started adopting souls through Brahma, and purifying them.
3. Once they are ready, all souls, Brahmins, Non Brahmins, start going back to Paramdham and again
the new world will start with 900000 purified souls playing their part in Satyug.

I will again trouble you by asking what your intentions are? I don't hesistate in accepting that I never thought of these aspects what you are bringing to us. Souls (like me) has given almost whole life listening to this knowledge, and believing them. Now, your reasearch, though appear scientific but it would be great if you kindly suggest, should one follow them or not?

YES OR NO

Please be honest ex-I, I request.

P.S. From Yesterday Murli (18.01.2010): Children are already told, World is going to destroy all of a sudden, Bapdaada will never announce a date of Destrution but do you know when your life is going to end. Anything can happen suddenly.

Murli

E - 18-01-2010.pdf

(453.43 KiB) Downloaded 688 times

Although this Murli is dated yesterday, it seems to me to be a Sakar Murli, usually they have two dates on them.

Also it says that it is to be read in morning class, which means that it was previous to yesterdays.

Whether that makes any difference to anyone.

However, I would like to note that when I was living a BK life, we were taught not to have memorials or anniversaries for our departed loved ones. They always had the memorials for Lekhraj Kirpalani on the 18th but, as the teaching was that he had reached perfection and was in the Subtle Region all by himself (I always had a little difficulty with this, as like ex-l I have met mediums and spiritualists who I felt were as genuine and honest as any BK, if not more so), I could get that.

But then they started having them for Mama and Dadi Kumarki (which I have no problem with, I really liked her) ... but why is it one law for them and another for everyone else? And who are they to decide who is a great soul or better soul than another?

I don't like the changing the rules ... or making it up as they go along. The Catholics were always at that as well, and look how they turned out. They (the Catholic Church) are really having to change now and come clean, but only through further suffering, endurance and courage of abuse victims.

My electricity is gone due to weather conditions (aaagh Destruction) and I am running low on battery, so later, I hope!!!!

Dear Nishchay,

I am clearer that I will implement what I like about BKs and sharing what I like openly favouring those points. I am not into unncessary criticism. I am raising queries where may be I can learn from a powerful Kumar like you if you bother to! I am clear that I will not accept everything without understanding in depth.

It is not criticizing anything, I am asking you to explain from your experience. I couldn't understand the 'Naivity of God in Dadi Gulzar's body' and why no one ever questions it. Boundary line between faith and blind faith is thin.

I am willing to understand from you and the second one is a suggestion on not focusing on Destruction.

A future deity wouldn't refuse such loveful request :-).

Dear clearernow,

You are also a future deity as you also got this Gyan and identified GOD.

People starts taking the superficial things of knowledge which they can do easily, like positivity in thoughts, avoiding discussions, not going too much in past or future, these are the things which you can find in any management training also. It is like enjoying sea, seating on the beach.

As far as God's knowledge is concerned, you have to enter deep in to the ocean courageously. Raising questions is sign of doubt, why do they say so? tell me. There are many reasons behind it, if you think over it unbiasly.

According to Gyan, the world is perfect, everything is perfect and everyone is playing its accurate part including GOD. DRAMA is supreme. Even GOD is also in control of DRAMA. Baba himself said, that he is also in control of DRAMA and once you understand and developed faith in DRAMA then every thing becomes easy ... and all questions drop all of a sudden. Raising doubts takes us in the negative side, and then we forget about the most positive point i.e. the point of DRAMA.

I am not saying, that raising question is incorrect, but it will unfold several other questions also which is irrelevant.

Let's take your question, you asked why GOD looks so helpless using DG's body? And say, you got the answer that God is using, only the mouth, ears, smell, eyes, and since DG's body is old so GOD has to blah ... blah ... blah ... then you'll again raise the question ... GOD can take any body which is active, and many other questions will arise like this.

If you think about the souls, like Meerabai, Kabeer, what was the thing that made them so firm in their faith, it was unconscious (though they were not having it literally) acceptance and conscious surrenderedness. They never questioned about any act, even if Meerabai was given a cup of poison. And Kabeer was imprisoned by Aurangzeb ... such was their faith.

Take an example, in day time, you'll never doubt about the presence of SUN, do you? even if it is dark outside, you will say, oh ... yes ... The SUN is definately there but it is because of clouds, the light is not coming, you will never doubt the presense of SUN.

Same thing applies here. Once you got the realization, that GOD's work of transformation is going on then all you have to do is to develop the faith ... and see, if faith is lacking then definitely it is MY PROBLEM as DRAMA is accurate.

Please keep on topic ... If you want to discuss the non-existent, fairy stories of Bhakti as examples, please use the "All and Anything Forum".

You are also a future deity as you also got this Gyan and identified GOD.

What about me? What will my status be?

You are mistaking the spirits involved with the BKWSU and God. What ever it is in Gulzar ... it is not God.

Lekhraj Kirpalani ... may be. Lekhraj Kirpalani and some trickster spook ... may be. Lekhraj Kirpalani and some higher being ... may be. Lekhraj Kirpalani and some "ascendant master" ... may be. Mama (Om Radhe), even yes, ... may be.

The changes in personality of BapDada from the death of Lekhraj Kirpalani ... and the failings of BapDada's abilities and character ... have never been properly explained by the BKWSU. As others say, all these questions are a deep taboo to ask and question in the BKWSU.

All you get is brainwash ... "do not question ... don't ask ... have faith ..." etc etc etc.

Likewise, no one is able to questions:

a) why the Seniors surrounded BapDada on the stage, monopolise him and put on a special show ... with them at the center, when apparently they spent 50 years with Lekhraj Kirpalani in the flesh.
b) why they do not let new, poor, or worthy effort making BKs up on the stage.
c) why they let the impure rich and VIPs get up instead ... some older BKs having to BUY their way onto the stage for some special occasion.

d) why they do not let people ask BapDada serious questions or ask him to clarify serious issues like the ones we raise here, the history and so on

e) why the secret meetings and what goes on in them ... why they are not recorded or publicised.

f) why "God" speaks in middle class Hindi. (Actually, I do not need an answer for that ... I just wonder to put out for non-Hindi speakers).

Is all this so truly wonderful and divine?

The reason you shake is because all of this, and what happens on this forum, are deep truths about Gyan and Brahma Kumarism.

This quote

You are also a future deity as you also got this Gyan and identified GOD.

Is because of this quote

A future deity wouldn't refuse such loveful request :-).

Extremely sorry, if there is any violation of rule, but the pulling of legs should’nt be done by anyone!

There was no violation of any rule, I am sure ... leg pulling is encouraged.

I was just genuinely interested to read what a high standing, orthodox BK would make of my future status according to Gyan.

I am truly sorry Nischay if you felt that way. My intention was not pulling the legs but getting responses for the most unasked question.

I do agree with your post on Faith but not all questions are doubts. Even in your early days in BK life, you start with questions to Seniors and God. You find answers in Meditation, through Murlis or fellow BKs and thats how you develop faith. Otherwise, there is no difference in Faith and Blind Faith.

Unanswered questions shake faith even more in any belief system. Gita says that God come in ordinary form and only one out of millions recognize him. I want to know what is that experience like if you believe its God and have recognized ... So I do not like being skeptical about everything as I have been immensely benefitted by The Knowledge and connection with God ... I still feel the beauty of that divine love, that always shows to me BKs are not deceivers and genuinely believe what they preach, otherwise how did I achieve such divine connection without any religious/spiritual background?

BapDada until recently used to go walk about in Shantibhavan, I saw this many times. Now Gulzar is too sick it is obvious.