Help Needed for my Brother

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bhupendra

friends or family of a BK

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Help Needed for my Brother

Post07 Feb 2010

I discovered this site today only while I was browsing Brahmakumaris official website.

Thank God I've reached the right place.

Straight to my concern.

My Brother was involved in this organisation since 10 years. He and our mother were quite addicted to this organisation and inspite of our regular advises about carreer, marriage and life settlement he went on ignoring them, and became more and more involved in this organisation.

Now after being in organisation for about 10 years, from last 2 months he suddenly stopped going there, we ask him again and again but he seems to avoid our questions saying nothing has happened. He has become very silent and we are noticing his very much depressed state of mind. He was not taking food prepared by us, but now it seems that he want to mix with us but is hesitating very much. He is still unmarried, and we are very much worried about his future. He is 40 now, we are worried because he is no more going in the centre, sitting alone in his spare time (he is doing a job ofcourse). Not mixing and not going to centre either.

We need some advises through this website, is there any way to help him out or to convince him to go for marriage and settle? It seems that he has lost interest in this organisation.
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ex-l

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post08 Feb 2010

Hello Bhupendra, welcome.

Force wont work. He will need time to think things out. How do you think he would respond to being told there is a site like this one for ex-members, or exiting members? It helps to read that there are others going through similar things the world over.

I think it also helps for questioning BKs to see that they have been lied and deceived by the leadership. That the leadership of the BKWSU is manipulative and has exploited their following. In the Library (link above), there are original posters and documents from the 1930s that he will not have seen before. They prove that the BKs have been revising their history as they go, hiding predictions of Destruction from newcomers.

If he was only in for 10 years, then he might not know there were predictions of Destruction going back to mid-1980s, 1976, 1950, WWII ... they have been playing the same game for decades ... even using followers money to buy property the same year as they predicted it all was going to be destroyed. They might pique his interest.

Questioning BKs, even ex-BK retain an interest in the philosophy and organization. Rather than trying to pull him out, it is probably just best to allow him to untangle himself on the way out. You should realise that there is a deeper discussion of the philosophy here than on any "official" website and most chats in the center ... which focus more on reinforcing and evangelising their ideas.

As to marriage and relationships, it is not too late as long as he is a little humble and considerate. If it does come up in conversation, you could put it to him in the form of "service" of another and the fulfillment of one's worldly responsibilities just as the founder of his religion, Lekhraj Kirpalani, did. He should follow the same path ... family first.

This issue of the failed predictions of "Destruction" is important. All BKs' decisions are based on the End of the World coming in 2 or 3 years and, hence, ordinary life not being worthwhile. It has been used as a confidence trick. If you can show him that the god spirit of the BKWSU, and the leaders predicted Destruction many times ... and it failed ... it may release a weight from his mind.

It may be depression ... it may not be depression. It may be that he is thinking very deeply and needs time by himself. Something may have happened to shake his faith.

BKs are told all sort of terrible lies about this website by the leaders, as they have done so about others that question their authority, like the PBKs splinter group. You will discover, as you get to know them, the leaders are capable of doing so whilst keeping up their "peaceful" facade and have an almost hypnotic hold on their followers. They also work to separate them from their feelings and relationships with others (which they call a negative sin and "attachment"). It is as if the 'software' does not exist in their 'computer' any more.

He will probably still be drawn by the meditation, as it has either a hypnotic or psychic influence over adherents, and float away. If you can, try and keep him in the 'here and now' gently. Be careful of using any 'force' or strong argument, it will probably only drive him away.

It is hard to say what sort of partner would be best, as I know nothing of your family, but I think a vegetarian would be a must and a 'gently' religious and philosophical person would help. "Blind faith" is another enemy to the BKWSU (even though they are full of their own). In a way, the Brahma Kumaris are quite modern in their manipulation of Hinduism with many influences and modernisation taken from their Western students. So that would probably appear to him to. Pushing him back to old fashioned religion probably wont.

My guess is that an ex-BK is far more likely to adopt a secular, independent view of spirituality and that going back to any religion based on superstition is fairly impossible.

Others might have other suggestions.

Thanks.

bhupendra

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post08 Feb 2010

Thank you for your prompt and careing reply
All BKs' decisions are based on the End of the World coming in 2 or 3 years and, hence, ordinary life not being worthwhile. It has been used as a confidence trick.

Yes ... This is the main reason he sticked to the organisation, and he was trying to convince us using this point only. But we never felt that way. We noticed his fear and isolation to mix with others and intentionaly avoiding people in the society.

Can I ask you a question? Why and how do people get stuck with this organisation? I've been there several times, at the time of some event or function, the Sister keeps on encouraging me to join but I never felt to be one of them.

What makes people to believe in this stupidity of Destruction in 2 to 3 years? Did GOD tell them, or I say, even if GOD says so, or they know it, what is the point and sense it makes to leave everything a side and stick to only Baba ... Baba ... Baba ... and continuously watching a redlight hanging on the wall? I never understand this, and I wonder how people believe it?

This evening I will try to get him to this site and let him know the facts about it.

Thank you once again ...
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ex-l

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post08 Feb 2010

bhupendra wrote:What is the point and sense it makes to leave everything a side and stick to only Baba ... Baba ... Baba ... and continuously watching a redlight hanging on the wall? I never understand this, and I wonder how people believe it?

That is the question people, usually parents, husband or children left behind all over the world are asking.

In brief, the founder and mediums of the Brahma Kumaris are said to be possessed by a spirit, or a number of spirits. They believe ... or have imprinted on their minds gradually, that the main spirit is the God of all Religions, and that other religions are inferior, ignorant and soon to be destroyed.

The current medium Hirday Mohini, is said to be possessed by BOTH the spirit of God AND the spirit of their deceased ex-millionaire founder, a Sindi. Both the spirits are said to speak directly through the mouth of Sister Gulzar using her body like a puppet. This is what they teach. Obviously, you have to be well "cooked", softened up by their hypnotic meditation, before they will tell you.

They are not staring at a red light on the wall, per se. The red light acts as a trigger for the hypnotic state and once they can enter into that state, it takes little for them to float off. If you accept the theory of spirits, it is during this meditation that they become spiritually open to the influence of these spirits and, for the first period at least, they can feel very free or high. It does not last, but during that "Honeymoon Period" they are hooked socially by the bonds of friendship they make in the BKWSU ... and detached from the influence of more rational, down to earth physical families and old friends.

Again, if you accept the theory of spirits, it is during the meditation that they are used by the spirits to transmit their energy or state of consciousness. Again, this can be quite a strong sensation. Not all have it.

Generally though, it all wears off and the individual wakes up again. They see the abuse and contradictions, they see the hypocrisy, often very sincere moral, religious or political sentiments reawaken in them and they start to question the leadership. Of course, the failure of Destruction, and "God's" other prophesies etc, makes them doubt.

Unfortunately, over 70 years the leadership have very skillfully refined their social and mind control using methods "yuktis" they have learned from the spirit guides and elsewhere. It can be quite hard for some to leave. People stay because they have no where else to go, because they do not want to lose face, because they have power and status within the organization ... it feeds their ego.

This is why at this point, I would guess it is important that you let him know you support him and that he has his family to fall back on. There is nothing to fall back on in the BKWSU except for a tiny few. The rest of the BK adherents will be milked and then thrown away. They do not plan for the future because they believe everything is going to be destroyed. They are told this constantly.

You will also find that the Brahma Kumaris leaders are now teaching a corruption of their own god's teachings. Many sincere followers see this and it also makes them question and leave. The rest you will read elsewhere on this forum.

bhupendra

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post09 Feb 2010

Yesterday, I had an open talk with my Brother and found your guessings accurate. He freaked ... cried and cried like a child ... He has lost all the interest in the BK organisation but, for sure, he doesn't want to leave his Baba, and is very firm in remaining unmarried. He wants to spend his life alone ... no more centre ... no more family.

Of course, we all are there with him. I am having my own family, i.e. wife and one son. We all are living together as a family. But even though he is living with us physically, every thing is separated. He cooks for himself and, till now, is busy in the centre activities. We are worried about his future and his loneliness ... I wish, if he gets married, at least he can mix with us in the religious or family events. Otherwise, day by day, he will distance himself from us and that will be painful.

It would be of great help for us if you advise us, how most of ex-Bks spending their lives after leaving the organisation? Did they marry or join some other organisation? Spending a life alone, without any purpose, is impossible I believe.

Your suggestions would be of great help.

Regards.
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ex-l

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post09 Feb 2010

I am interested to know what happened to provoke such a strong reaction from him towards the organization ... but I think the time is wrong to ask right now. It also sounds like he will just take some time to heal and mend. His attitude will change.

From his Baba's Murlis, you can tell him that a) BK Brahmins are meant to be on the family path and not sanyasis. You can say that to him outright. He is not meant to be a sanyasi. You can also say to him from the Murlis, that his Baba has said it is better if someone wants to leave that they do marry.

There is a question to put in his mind regards when his Baba says, "Follow the Father" he means follow the Brahma Kumari leadership ... or follow the example Lekhraj Kirpalani gave, which was to first get married, have a family, fulfill his family responsibilities ... AND THEN seek a relationship with God. You should be aware that the BKWSU leaders have changed the message of the teachings to suit themselves ... and become sanyasi guru types. That is all wrong according to "The Knowledge" (Gyan, they call it).

You could, when the time is right, suggest that he finds a woman from within the BK movement who also wants to half-leave ... and they can support each other as Adi-Kumars and Kumaris. There is no reason why he should not.

There are also two very real issues to consider,

    a) who is going to look after him when he becomes old (you can remind him that Baba's predictions of Destruction have failed in WWII (1945), 1950, 1967, mid-1980s and the leaderships during Year 2000 ... he may not even know that Baba used to predict 50 years for Destruction and 50 years for Creation ... Destruction has not happened and it is 70 year already).

    b) what responsibility do you have to your own family and why should you he be a burden on you?
It is probably not a good time to say that but it is a fair thing to keep in mind. It is probably the best thing not to present alternatives as "either this OR Gyan" but "why not this AND Gyan". He should know that in the West, there are BK Brothers and Sisters that do live together, and there are are BKs that have left and live together and keep following much of the lifestyle.

Of course, the leaders do not tell people this. These people are "failed" and dangerous according to them ("lower than the lowest of the low") ... More to the point, their success is a threat to the control of their followers, and the free labor and free money they take from them.

Yes, many younger BKs also leaves and start families. Many live half-and-half lives. Why, unless the BKWSU is going to start offering pensions to all, should one think of their future? Of course, the leaders do not tell them this because the money would not come in if they did. It is as simple as that in my opinion.

noidentity

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post11 Feb 2010

Dear Friends,

To introduce myself briefly, I consider myself a BK. But recently have a girlfriend - so probably only I consider myself a BK but no one else :). At least no one dogmatic, for sure ... I was a very strict adherent of all rules for 7 years. But now notice that spirituality is beyond rules (although rules are needed).

I have been frustrated by the way the organization is managed. So started not going regularly (not because I have a girlfriend). I was immensely lost in the mentality and state of mind of Destruction being close ... however, that is a negative source of motivation. It's an aspect of The Knowledge, but when not balanced with positive aspects like love, happiness etc one can find himself in a mood which is just near death.

That's what my girlfriend told me before we started. "You are a person who lives very close to death" BUT!!! This is exactly what it should not be ... a raja yogi should be full of life energy ... THAT might not be what you have seen in your Brother, or his teacher, or anyone in the BK. But, I have seen with my eyes those who are the embodiment of those positive qualities. It's rare at the moment :( ...

I HOPE that your Brother is in a transition period. Seeing what he has done wrong, to connect with what is wrong. Like disliking what is ugly ... One needs to disconnect from those things.

And, secondly, it might be time to disconnect from aspects of spiritual wisdom which have been misinterpreted by people, like; "do not touch people" instead of being detached (and loving to them). The first one is hateful and the second is loveful.

I distanced myself from the BK to breath and digest a little ... and to think about what I mentioned above ... Not due to anything traumatic. I hope that's the case with your Brother. And there maybe nothing to worry about. He just needs to clean from his mind these dogmatic rubbish ...

BEST wishes

nischaybuddi

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post12 Feb 2010

No Identity wrote:To introduce myself briefly, I consider myself a BK. But recently have a girlfriend - so probably only I consider myself a BK but no one else :). At least no one dogmatic, for sure ... I was a very strict adherent of all rules for 7 years. But now notice that spirituality is beyond rules (although rules are needed).

You have given yourself very good name "NO IDENTITY". You have no identity at all. Trying to sail on both boats and considering yourself as a guide without asking your guidance.

Do you know the mental state of this Brother? Instead of giving moral support from your heart and soul, you are adding to his grief. What a shame on you. That Brother is a Kumar and still firm to lead his Kumar life after suffering from such a grief. And you ************* are discussing about your girlfriend here while counseling him. Who ***** is interested to know about your girlfriend? Really you have no identity.

To Bhupedra:

Dear Bhupendra,

Please don't be misguided by the stories given over on this forum. Of course, ex-I is a practical person you can base your thoughts on him. But believe in yourself first. I am sure your Brother will recover soon. There is great power in purity, if he is following as you say, self-cooking etc, I am sure he is a powerful soul. I wish his fast recovery.

All I can say is just pray for him, as PRAYER has tremendous power. I am sure you are a firm believer in GOD, so forget about Brahmakumaris organisation for a while and pray to the supreme. He will guide and answer you.

Thanks

noidentity

reforming BK

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post12 Feb 2010

Dear Brother,

Look how much anger and hate you are hiding behind your BK identity.

Why I shared my experience is this. Many people in this forum have had traumas because of people like you. Those who call themselves BK but are full of hate inside. One has to let go of this false identity.

This Brother may be going through the same thing. He's probably frustrated because of someone like you in the center he's attending...

nischaybuddi

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post12 Feb 2010

I am sorry noidentity, if you feel hurt. I don’t have hate for any body in this world. But tell me was that the right place to discuss with a person already in grief? Your post was something like that.

A person in grief because he has lost his wife, and you are telling him, "oh, enjoy man ... meet my girlfriend".
He's probably frustrated because of someone like you in the center he's attending.

No, may be he is frustrated because today people do not want to create their own identity like that of, VIVEKANADA, RAJA Ram MOHAM ROY, SHIVAJI, GANDHIJI, MOTHER TERESA, NELSON MENDELA. Very soon they try find ways for their escapism. He is strong enough and still firm on his decision to remain pure. I wished him fast recovery (have you read the other half part of my post)?

Be happy with your girlfriend, and why not you seek some other forums to discuss about your girlfriends, you can find many sites to discuss about and to do much more ...

May God Bless you.

P.S. Telling the things clearly and openly, is not a sign of hatred and anger. It hurts for a while, but cures for lifetime. Omshanti

noidentity

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post12 Feb 2010

Dear Bhupendra,

I have been writing somethings which may look off-topic to you. But actually they are probably much connected to your Brother (also my Brother).

As I hear about your Brother, I see that he's much similar to me. Especially in not wanting anything else about BK than God. Which is quite healthy. And being so interested in Destruction ...

And I also heard loads of comments about career, family, friends etc. Compared to my education, I was underperforming in my job - simply because I misunderstood spirituality. Many people told this to me for a long time, over and over. And I had to notice it by myself ... Many similar situations with other aspects of life.

It seems like a healthy transition period to me. He's trying to connect with life at a higher and healthier level. He's probably afraid that he's making "mistakes" (so many things may be considered mistakes by one, that he can unwillingly put himself in a prison ...). (As a side note, to clarify what I am trying to say, I am not planning a life of marriage myself).

I know it's deep sorrow he's going through, since I had it myself. There's little anyone can do. Since, it's a deep transformation. You will find it difficult to access him at that level, because he'll think you wont be able to help him anyway ... I wish I could say something practical that would help. What I can say is, just LOVE him. And try to be as calm yourself as possible, and not make him think that you are in a state of 'emergency warning'.

Best wishes to you and your Brother.

bhupendra

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post12 Feb 2010

Thanks for your concern noidentity and ex-I

Noidentity, Are you going to marry? you said that you are having a girl friend? How old are you, and how many years you been with BKs, were you surrendered BK? pease inform us, it would be of great help for us.

Thanks

noidentity

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post12 Feb 2010

30 yrs old, 8 years with the institution. Still fully in love with the philosophy and following the main guidelines (but not going regularly). But I think, both myself and the majority (if not all) members, need a revision in the way things are done. For example, embracing our own weaknesses or negative feelings.

When I came to the BK, I was a dysfunctional person, not able to have smooth and nice relationships with people. I consider myself to have had a little bit of many things like, obsession, manic depression, social fears etc (and using soft level antidepressants but none at clinical levels). At the moment, I feel I have very little or none of each. I took a lot of benefit.

I have a girlfriend, yes. But not planning to marry (let's see ...). Why not marry? Because, while I might one day decide to shape my life in a different direction because of one reason or another, I cannot bind someone to myself. I am learning to love a human soul, without any ego mixed in it. I told her about the whole knowledge and lifestyle that I believe in. Is it not selfish? Well, if we did not have this relationship, if would be falsehood. When I love her fully, I will have given all that I can to her as a human being.

Forging this for a lifetime, I think, is superficial compared to this. It's a bit like a cliche... As you may know, there's something called 'pure marriage' in the BK, between members even. However, when it's because of attachment it's not encouraged. I do not want to get married (at least at this age), but if someone tells me they'd like to, that's quite fine.

I was not living in the center, but much involved with it. I considered myself as a surrendered BK. Since surrender is with the heart, I still consider myself surrendered. At the beginning of the relationship, I had a little bit of a crisis. How can I do this?? It was my ego crying ...

Relationships inside the center can be distressing. And over a long period of time, things can come to a deadlock. The solution may be not to push things harder. But somehow, one needs to get rid of the self-imposed fear caused by the disciplines. I am not advising anyone to find someone or get married. Just talking about what the state of mind can become whilst following the disciplines and the lifestyle.

I am not offering any advice, since I cant - because it's too specific to every individual. But you might understand what may be going inside your Brother's mind.

Regards.
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swordofjustice

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post14 Feb 2010

ex-l wrote:I am interested to know what happened to provoke such a strong reaction from him towards the organization ... but I think the time is wrong to ask right now. It also sounds like he will just take some time to heal and mend. His attitude will change ... ... ... etc.

A post I agree with. In my view, ex-I is giving some well reasoned advice with some very rational and practical measures.

Does it surprise you if you think of me as a BK supporter? Good! I like surprises! :-) What more can I say about it all though?

    * Do Seniors really say you are "failed"? Even when I left 20 years ago no one said that to me.
    * Even if someone said that, don't listen to that kind of crap. Human error once more.
    * Self-esteem is the shield for that. Self-esteem is crucial on any path; Christianity, Islam, BK, any of them. It is a fundamental quality of life.
    * You will find Murlis explaining that!
    * So this person is still not eating food cooked by others? Hmmm ... well it's not wrong per se to want to cook food in meditation. Nice thing to do.
    * But if anyone is really crumbling and not in a good state, just bloody forget about very detailed and high yogi practices like that! It should be the last thing anyone worries about.
    * What is most important is getting emotionally better. Once that happens, then sure you can follow a strict and detailed spiritual path like BK.
    * It concerns me to hear he broke down in tears. Something big is going on. Poor guy, my heart and my good wishes go out to him.
    * Be there for your Brother, Bhupendra. As ex-I says, you might have to be gentle and let your Brother sort out a lot of things himself. But you can help with your care and concern. Try not to judge, of course.
@nischaybuddi

Your post contains a lot of criticism. I really mean that. Your dedication to BK may be admirable in its firmness, but let me ask you something ...

Does the Father have compassion? Does he? Yes or no? What does your heart say?

Let me say that compassion brings us closer to God. How many Murlis has Baba spoken on love? It brings so much benefit to our lives. Has not Baba said that love is a great power? I think the entire world, BKs and myself included, could do with more love in our lives.

You mention prayer. What else is prayer for but to send out love? In the feeling of love there is absolutely no judgement for other souls, only feelings of benefit.

I would say that we become confused sometimes between understanding what is right and wrong and judging others. God is a teacher and it is good to think on what is right and wrong. That should only be for the self though. God is also the Father of all souls. Murlis say again and again that God is the very Ocean of Love. So love is what we should apply to others, never judgements. Who are we to judge anyone anyway? If a soul wants the happiness of a relationship and is still feeling their way through what BK Raj Yoga offers, best wishes to them!

I need to practice and apply all of this myself, of course. May I have that wit and wisdom in my life. I try to catch it when I slip and judge people.

Cheers,

Sword
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swordofjustice

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Re: Help Needed for my Brother

Post14 Feb 2010

noidentity wrote:30 yrs old, 8 years with the institution. Still fully in love with the philosophy and following the main guidelines (but not going regularly). But I think, both myself and the majority (if not all) members, need a revision in the way things are done. For example, embracing our own weaknesses or negative feelings ... ... ... etc.

Well done, mate. You sound calm and rational in your post. I think you are travelling in a good way. So you are taking the support of a relationship. As taught in the Murli, you can make that partnership into a wonderful and sustaining part of spirituality.

Strict Seniors in BK may say something against it (though likely not so much these days). That is how they were taught, they found their spiritual strength through strict religious adherence and complete and total renunciation of ordinary form of relationships with others.

But one has to read the Murli and understand it with that broad intellect that Baba speaks on. There is nothing stopping anyone from being in a relationship and being spiritual. The path that the souls of the early Yagya took is their path, according to the time, everyone's level of understanding, etc. I, personally, think their zealous religious strictness was probably needed in the overall scheme of things though I think spirituality goes far beyond any religious practice.

There are challenges in being in a relationship, of course. Attachment and other vices present themselves as a challenge. The topic of what a vice is and why we would try and live without vice is a big one. Living wholeheartedly yet without vices can lead to a absolutely amazing depth of spiritual attainment. The secret is not to suppress feelings but to change your perspective on them. I have come to believe that if one tries to live wholeheartedly and spiritually, the pull of the old sustenance we tried to gain from vices is much diminished and one can spiritually progress.

Here is a small example of what a vice is and how it operates to our detriment. When I left BK I fell in love deeply with a soul. She was quite wonderful. Then she died in a car accident and I was so gutted. It gave me so much sorrow. I was suicidal.

It's not wrong to love her. I always will. But what happened inside me I realised much later is two things: she filled in some big inner holes in myself, and I utterly relied on her for feelings of wellbeing as my self-esteem was so low and I had crap life skills. So losing her was like the end of everything good in my life and created that massive experience of sorrow.

Love is not wrong. But our habit is to then change that into clinging, and a feeling of taking and dependance. The secret is to love fully and freely, letting it spring forth from our deep spiritual beliefs affecting our hearts in a constructive way. Life is meant to be lived and loved! If you believe in the deities and a Golden Age of the world as BKs do, then understand that that is how deities live: with the most freely felt love that it is possible to feel.

So the aim is to give, not take. Renouncing vice means to become altruistic in a very deep way. That karma of giving spiritual love will then automatically be returned to us. Thus, there is never any emptiness. Doing karma like that will result in us being surrounded by love in our lives.

So this spiritual knowledge which is taught in BK frees us from the clinging and taking, if we take some care in our lives to not let love become attachment and if we give out pure love. It is a fantastic karma, surely? Could anyone say it's not a good thing to give love in one's life?

We are all effort makers though, to be human is to be flawed. We mustn't be harsh to ourselves in any form of spiritual endeavour as we find darkness in us: attachment, anger, etc. And don't think there is a magic bullet to life. We have old karmic accounts and you could find yourself in a situation where there is distinct lack of love returned to you. However, we can but strive. I believe anyone can change and I believe anyone can settle their karmic accounts and start to experience the return of very spiritual karma done in the here and now.

Cheers,
Pete
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