Thinking of going back

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sakaash

questioning BK

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Thinking of going back

Post15 Mar 2010

Hi All,

It's been awhile since I wrote on here, a lot has happened since, I have practically left the BK life behind and returned to my "normal" life. Problem is, there was a huge problem with my "normal" life - I was missing GOD!

The BKs provided the idea that I had finally found him/her and I did experience a kind of rest from searching. Now, that I have given up the BK lifestyle etc, I am wondering if I have thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Is it worth trying to salvage a relationship with God through the BKs? There are so many good ideologies etc in Raja Yoga, ideologies that suited me which was perhaps the reason why I got pulled into all of it in the first place. I don't know if it is God who enters Dadi Gulzar, I saw it, I felt something but I am not sure.

There are many human imperfections in the BK organisation but when I used to sit with God alone on my mind it wasn't even Shiv Baba really - it was just God who I saw as a loving/forgiving and accepting entity. I drew strength from that, I felt that I was becoming a better person because I had more control over myself, I had less arguments and my friends saw a huge difference in my temperament.

Now they see another difference and it is for the worse I am sad to say.

Am I mad for thinking like this?
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littlelamb

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post15 Mar 2010

Hello Sakaash,

You say it is a while since you posted here and I am a newcomer so apologies for not knowing what your previous discussions were.

Should you go back? Ultimately that is your decision but you asked for advice so here is mine ;)
sakaash wrote:Is it worth trying to salvage a relationship with God through the BKs?

No!
I don't know if it is God who enters Dadi Gulzar, I saw it, I felt something but I am not sure.

It's not God.
There are many human imperfections in the BK organisation but when I used to sit with God alone on my mind it wasn't even Shiv Baba really - it was just God who I saw as a loving/forgiving and accepting entity.

Aha! Not a god who constantly nagged you to make more effort, or told you that your loved ones were impure and vicious or reminded you that if you left and went your own way you were the lowest of the lowest of the low (a strange thing for a loving father-god to say!)
I had less arguments and my friends saw a huge difference in my temperament. Now they see another difference and it is for the worse I am sad to say.

Do you feel able to be more specific about these changes in your temperament? Confusion and a sense of loss and grief can lead to changes in temperament, irritability, mood swings and so on. In another thread I asked for advice about 'psychic' or spiritual influences over people attempting to free themselves from the Brahma Kumaris. Opinion is divided of course, but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, particularly if you are wavering and thinking of returning.

Is it God you are missing, or something else? If you can establish that relationship with God outside of BK and it feels comfortable and safe, do you really need to renew that involvement? Is there another way you could do so? Another faith community that could satisfy any needs for companionship and in which you can conduct normal, healthy human relationships with other people who are seeking to connect with God?

I don't think you are mad, maybe at a vulnerable stage, which leads me to urge caution about any decision to return to the beakies as ex-l calls them.

Good luck and good wishes :D.

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

Welcome back sakaash!

I had been thinking about you lately, wondering what had happened to you.
sakaash wrote:I don't know if it is God who enters Dadi Gulzar

Since we know that there was no trace of God Shiva in the BK teachings until the 1950's it becomes impossible to believe that God Shiva came in Dada Lekraj in 1936 like we were told and that he gave The Knowledge speaking thorough Dada's lips.

How much of the rest is likely to be true then? How likely is it that God Shiva would have begun to come in Prajapati God Brahma's body after 1950 but it being kept hidden from the believers, them being told a fabricated lie rather than the truth? And how likely is it then that God would now be coming in Dadi Gulzar?
I used to sit with God alone on my mind it wasn't even Shiv Baba really - it was just God who I saw as a loving/forgiving and accepting entity. I drew strength from that, I felt that I was becoming a better person

Many who have left the BKs have kept that connection with what they believe to be God: a benevolent being. Why would you not?
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rayoflight

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

Dear sakaash,

littlelamb's advice seems sound.

I think the spirit that is channeled through Dadi Gulzar is truly in love with God (the feeling that it transmits to its followers) and most probably has a deep desire to be God Himself.

This is of utmost danger to anyone who falls for its masquerade, because as we know, all attempts to imitate God is ego-based and the most dangerous aspect of it all, is that it attracts other spirits that intervene in the game: those that have caused many of us trouble and confusion.

To "miss" God is to miss a feeling that has become a dependence and rejoining the BKWSO thus, becomes a co-dependence similar to human beings who cannot live without each other.

God is everywhere, but most of all, is already within you. It is not necessary to go back to the sect in order to experience God's love. Returning to the BK sect rather, would be a relapse.

My best wishes to you :-)
rayoflight
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ex-l

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

rayoflight wrote:I think the spirit that is channeled through Dadi Gulzar is truly in love with God (the feeling that it transmits to its followers) and most probably has a deep desire to be God Himself.

An interesting suggestion ... one which, I think goes hand in hand with the admittance that "God" is not a dot/point of light/individual personality but something more "universal" as Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs first thought and most religious people think.

Real life is a rough and tumble. That is just the way it is. You would have to weigh up the differences between how usefully productive you were whilst hypnotised and giving all your money and time to the Brahma Kumaris against what you are achieving now.

It is good to have some interesting/useful/charitable project going on in your life. There are plenty of other ones to do rather than support the Brahma Kumaris to chase VIPs and deceive newcomers to their religion.

What else is going on in your life right now? How does the future look?

The future with the BKWSU is the darkness of Destruction. Personally, I do not believe in that any more. I think the whole Destruction/Creation of Heaven scenario is ridiculously impossible. I think it is an evil manipulation of vulnerable individuals. Life will continue on as it has done ... for good and for bad. You are better off looking after yourself and doing a little bit of good here and there for others.
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rayoflight

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

ex-l wrote:An interesting suggestion ... one which, I think goes hand in hand with the admittance that "God" is not a dot/point of light/individual personality but something more "universal" as Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs first thought and most religious people think.

I should elaborate as well, that "God" for me is simply the beauty and goodness that exists in the world. It is DEFINITELY NOT a point/dot NOR a place on a hill in India.

If God is what we call "love" then we can find it anywhere and everywhere if it's in us ... and it is.

sakaash

questioning BK

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

Hi all, I forgot how supportive and helplful you guys are with answering questions!

Thanks for all the replies, I guess what I am asking is whether someone (me) can pick out the good that is in the BKs and use that to enhance my life.

For example, I've never tried meditation before the BKs became part of my life. cannot remember the last time I sat in meditation, viewing myself as a peaceful soul and connecting to a benevolent God. Raja Yoga is the only place I found this. Being involved but detached, being able to help someone in need but not get too emtoionally drawn in, again that is something that I only ever explored with the BKs.

Not taking or givng sorrow - again that came to me from the BKs. I already knew about not giving sorrow but the taking of it, I had to work on. There was a kind of common sense to it all, it felt right. Unfortunately, at the same time there were things that felt wrong!
Is there any other place for me? I've looked into Buddhism/Christianity/The power of Chi but nothing fits.

Am I bound to wander forever, missing and not missing what I have left behind?
Little Lamb wrote:Do you feel able to be more specific about these changes in your temperament? Confusion and a sense of loss and grief can lead to changes in temperament, irritability, mood swings and so on. In another thread I asked for advice about 'psychic' or spiritual influences over people attempting to free themselves from the Brahma Kumaris. Opinion is divided of course, but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, particularly if you are wavering and thinking of returning.

I have been irritable/snappy for a long time, I only seem to get over it when I have an endorphin rush! Are you saying that you think "spirits" are trying to pull me back into the BKs? Not sure what I think about that.
BKTI-PIT wrote:Many who have left the BKs have kept that connection with what they believe to be God: a benevolent being. Why would you not?

Do they connect to God as they have done when they were with the BKs? i.e. through meditation/using the cds etc?
ex-l wrote:What else is going on in your life right now? How does the future look?

Well, I have a pretty busy schedule but that all means nothing if there is no God in the picture. If I am absolutely upfront about this, I was pretty mad at God about the whole BK thing, especially after feeling so duped into the whole thing - I was actually really happy when I started with the BKs, now I know that was the honeymoon stage!

Now, I feel ready to rebulid a relationship with God and the only way I can see this is through the BK way, it was the only way that felt natural to me until all this other stuff came to light, is it possible to go back into this with my eyes open?

because.parmeshwar

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

What I feel the main reason for thinking of going back is we relate the worldly experiences with those of BKs. When we practice the BK principles, the worldly experiences seem to be nothing and we feel ourselves at height. Now, when we leave BKs, again we find ourselves among the normals and then it hurts ... and hurts a lot ... Also, we strongly realize the stupidity of missing all the materialistic achievements in career, profession, education, family, friends which also hurts ... then we feel again that what's wrong in staying intoxicated ... at least we can survive among the normals/ordinaries in a better way ... and hence the thoughts of going back ...

I don't know if you understand Hindi/Urdu Ghazals, but if you do try imagining a orthodox BK singing this. You will enjoy. :D

The teachings are wonderful ... Neither to give sorrow nor to take ... See everybody as a soul so that there would be no feeling of belonging ... See the world sitting at an observer’s stage ... Forget past and put a dot on the past ... But all it requires continuous involvement in the organization to set fixed on the stage and hence duping ...
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rayoflight

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

sakaash wrote:is it possible to go back into this with my eyes open?

My question is, can you go back with your eyes open ... and keep them open?
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ex-l

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

sakaash wrote:Now, I feel ready to rebulid a relationship with God and the only way I can see this is through the BK way, it was the only way that felt natural to me until all this other stuff came to light, is it possible to go back into this with my eyes open?

You can try and see how it goes ... I think many of us did but when we went back in we realised that we had outgrown it.

I have been looking at other individuals involved in other cultic religions, all of whom claim to be the "Supreme" teaching or teacher, and I see exactly the same patterns. The intoxication, the rush of finding a community of other people, the silliness of some of the claims and teachings, some people sticking it out and climbing the slippery pole of rank and status and other people leaving discontented afterwards having seen it for what it is.

I have just accepted that they are all just one level or one area of spirituality; or even just one stage of social evolution and that there are many beyond them. Tribal personality cults ... whether the personality is real and human or invisible and possibly other worldly. I just see it as one ledge on the cliff face of human evolution where one can stop and rest for a while or keep climbing. "End of the Worldism".

For me, there is enough in practically any religion to take and apply to life ... and life is not all so neat and tidy ... there are some far more beautiful and concise or extensive philosophies than Brahma Kumarism.

I think many of us also went back in to try and do some good, to inspire them on or try and reform them ... but that fails too. You come to realise that, however charismatic they are, they are stuck at their level even if it is being a god in their own realm. At the "back of the class" there are always a few BKs who see it for what is it and have stepped back but still go along with it just out of habit. If you do not let the Sisters get to you, and becoming nagging wives, you might be able to have a comfortable enough life.

If you do go back, just be practical too. Ensure your own future security, in case the end of the world does not come, and go back in with strength not to allow them to manipulate you.

One of the traps of such religions is that in aiming for and demanding a mercurial "perfection", the adherent is bound to fail and then be trapped by guilt and shame ... at which point they become easily manipulatable. By "mercurial", I mean constant changing and changeable, impossible to deny or pin down.

Mercurial: having qualities of eloquence, ingenuity, or thievishness attributed to the god Mercury or to the influence of the planet Mercury, characterized by rapid and unpredictable changeableness of nature and mood.

duty bound

questioning BK

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

To consider it going back, is to go Backwards. Go forward ... and if that means rubbing shoulders with a few BKs stay grounded and in self respect. And if you can eliminate all the Human Garbage and influence and extract some good and share some good then that would be worthwhile ... would it not?. If you go there wanting to take something then that could change the dynamic. Go and be in your happy space, let people see that you can also function in the world, love god, and grow. To answer your question ... no, don't go back; go forwards.
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littlelamb

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post16 Mar 2010

sakaash wrote:I have been irritable/snappy for a long time, I only seem to get over it when I have an endorphin rush! Are you saying that you think "spirits" are trying to pull me back into the BKs? Not sure what I think about that.

Hi Sakaash

I am not sure what I think of that either but I have wondered - and others here have suggested that this may be a possibility. I do believe, however, that when we are vulnerable we are more suggestible to tactics used by cults to pull us back in or to look back with rose tinted glasses and miss that lifestyle. This is what happened to me - and I did go back albeit briefly. The 'magic' wasn't there any more though and the whole thing now seems vaguely ridiculous to me. Perhaps the question I should have asked myself (and I would ask you to ask of yourself) is, "If it was so great in the first place, why did I feel the need to leave?"

I am really sorry that you feel the only way you can connect with God is through the BK way. I went through that too but slowly slowly I have come to realise that the BK way is not really a connection to anything other than a big propaganda machine that exists to perpetuate their fantasies.

I think you deserve better out of life. Talk to people on this forum, talk to your non-BK friends, talk to God, spend some time, if you can, somewhere beautiful and peaceful, look at the sky, nature, birds, animals, water, listen to the sounds, feel yourself (mind, soul and body!!) as a part of this wonderful intricate web of life, not detached from it. As Rayoflight says, God is everywhere and I say your relationship with Him/Her is uniquely personal to you.

Hope this helps

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post17 Mar 2010

sakaash wrote:Do they connect to God as they have done when they were with the BKs? i.e. through meditation/using the cds etc?

I do not think that they stick strictly to the BK meditation practices but they hold a belief in a benevolent and loving God and maintain a connection with that, whether trough meditation or otherwise.

What I mean to say is that you can keep whatever practices and concepts that suit you, if you like, without having to join back.

sakaash

questioning BK

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post17 Mar 2010

Hi all,

Thanks for all your suggestions.

You have given me a few things to think about that hadn't crossed my mind!

I just read Alannas entry and cannot believe how much the BK life affected her as a child. I was about 12 when my parents got into the BK stuff, I have also often wondered what they teach the kids when all the grown ups are listening to the Murli or in class ... there are those Relax Kids books by that lady (I forget her name now ...) she used to be heavily involved in doing the Christmas plays etc, I don't see her anymore though.

Anyway, I will mull it over and see how I go.

Thanks again!

alanna

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Re: Thinking of going back

Post17 Mar 2010

Hi Sakaash,

In answer to your wonderings, I attended both adult Murli classes/meditation and children's classes from the age of about 6. I think I stopped going when I was about 13. The children's classes at my centre were taken by different adult BKs (usually those who were parents, but others too) and each had their own style. Mostly we listened to bits of Murli, drew pictures, did a couple of minutes meditation (sometimes guided), played games and did little plays.

From what I remember, it was mostly based on what I viewed as "stories" about The Cycle, Baba and Maya, virtues etc. I enjoyed the children's classes (though not the getting up early!) but found the adult meditation hard and never really understood what I was supposed to be doing. I felt like I failed to "experience" the way I was supposed to a lot of the time, and my lasting impression is one of awkwardness and discomfort.

I think it's perfectly possible to take what you see as the positives from BK life and knowledge without getting involved with other BKs. There's no reason why you cannot have a relationship with God in your own way and on your own terms, the BKs don't own him/her!
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