Met a BK

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savefriendfrombk

friends or family of a BK

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  • Joined: 26 Jul 2010

Met a BK

Post21 Sep 2010

I met the BK friend of mine. The traits of her behavior are confusing. Let me try to explain and give me your suggestions.

    - She is an engineer works in the Software Industry in Bangalore for past 10 years. Dedicated to her work.
    - Stays alone, family is upset because she hasn't married and refused marriage. Her point is I have right to choose my life as per my requirements and I am very happy in it.
    - Other than BK, she follows Indian classical music and organizes musical functions also (note: this is good).
    - Her facebook friend list comprises both engineer friends and BK friends.
During the meeting, she seems terribly nice. Is it because meeting after a long time or because of BK involvement? She is interested to be in touch with friends from college (10 years back). Is excited about that. She posts in Facebook that college days were the best years in her life. Now that's a good sign that something other than BK excites her. Or is it that unlike other engineers who now have family, she doesn't have any so that incompleteness feeling is inside her, hence she longs for that?

She said that weekends she is very busy doing BK events and Indian classical music work. Quite innocently. Looks like she is not suspicious of non-bks. She seems to be really happy.

Now, traits of BK.

    - Before meeting face to face, tried to initiate discussion about BK, way of life etc. Cold response. is not willing to discuss. Whatever it is, she is fully convinced.
    - Is involved with BK at least for 5 years.
    - Has canceled a marriage proposal set by parents.
    - Stays in Bangalore but goes to Mt. Abu at least once a year for important functions.
Another friend (non-bk) suggests that

    - She is quite happy in what she is doing. If she is pulled from that she cannot adjust in usual society.
I agree with that.

Impression:

    My impression is that she is still somewhat level headed. It's like living two lifes, one the earlier life and one a BK life.
Questions:

    - How long will she be associated with BK. Will it be lifetime. Or is there chance of herself understanding and coming back.
    - Will she go to Madhuban full time.
    - What will happen at old age, when she is not physically strong? Will the BKWSU take care of her?
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Met a BK

Post21 Sep 2010

Thank you for your sincere and highly logical request. You have some good insights and are taking the right sort of approach to this.

My quick response would be to underline that the Brahma Kumaris remain at heart a millenarianist cult promoting "Destruction" of humanity within 2 to 3 years. "Destruction" has been within 2 to 3 years for the last 70 years. They never expected to last this long and are downplaying this element but it certainly effects their attitude towards money and followers. No thought is given to a longer term future. Followers are there to give, i.e. be financially exploited, not take. There is no "mutual aid".

Only a very few 'fully surrendered' individuals are looked after at the expense of the rest of the following. So, no, she ought to start paying for a pension and be careful of the BKWSU greed. The BKWSU is perfectly willing to take and accept family homes and inheritances although in such cases it is more likely to take onboard supporting individuals, e.g. widows.

I suspect she might already be funneling her own and her family's money to the BKWSU. If you are serious about this, at some point you should warn her family where the money will go and encourage them not to allow it. Put their property into a trust etc.

It sounds to me like your friend is not a "full BK". She might have a general faith in the BK philosophy, she could even be using the BKWSU to defeat her parents' will over the marriage issue. But is she following the full principles, e.g. 4 am meditation, 6 am class, not eating non-BKs food etc every day? If she is not a full BK, there is a little more hope.

It also sounds like she is intelligent and so she might be perfectly aware of the anomalies and absurdities in the BKWSU lore. Perhaps this may be why she is shy of speaking about them? Pushing any point is likely to push her away, so leading by questions might be a better way, although be warned the BKs are well defended psychologically with lots of little mental 'yuktis' taught by their elders and leaders.

Yes, the schizophrenia you talk about is very true. That is part of the BK existence. It is like being an undercover agent.
No, she is unlikely to be allowed to go to Madhuban full-time.
She is probably nice because she was nice to begin with. No guarantee BK-ism will improve that.

So, what, is she early 30s now? Are you interested in marrying her? I wonder if she might accept a marriage of her own making?

What can we offer you here? A view of the other side of the BKWSU people do not see and an interest in all the controversies, historical revisions and so on. At 5 years (2050) she really knows very little of the real history of the BKWSU. They have chopped, changed and hidden the history so many times before then, e.g. end of the world in WWII, 1950, 1976, mid-1980s etc. She will find it hard to believe what she might find here.

savefriendfrombk

friends or family of a BK

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Re: Met a BK

Post21 Sep 2010

Thank you ex-I for your detailed response.

I want to get advice here from experienced members regarding this situation.

Her parents and other close friends have accepted (have to accept) her path. They don't hope for her to come back and get married. They have tried emotional coercion which obviously failed.

The concern of family is that right now she is happy and can sustain on her own, what will happen at old age. Who will look after her then.

Money is not much of a concern here. Her parents stay in different city. Property is in their name. She stays on rent. Of course what she earns a good chunk must be going as donation. But that's her money anyway.

I don't intend to question her because it would backfire. Also she won't entertain frequent meetings.

Yes, she is in her early 30's. I am not a candidate for marriage. I am married with child. Long back, when we were in same engineering institute, I was interested. But she refused and we went our own ways. There was no contact for last 10 years (till recently).

Question
----------
I see a lot of BKs in this forum who has come back. I guess nobody can tell for sure whether it would happen or not. But if it happens, I'll come to know and then would seek for help here.
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Met a BK

Post21 Sep 2010

Is there a chance, do you think, that a part-Brahma Kumari life gives her a freedom that being normally single or married would not do. That is to say, the BK life is a means to a different end?

Do you know how dedicated she is as far as BK life?

For us, it is quite strange to see these people being sucked in, just as we were, using the same tools and devices 20 or 30 years on. Most of these relatively newcomers know so little about the past of the BKWSU. The BKWSU has also become much more wealthier and much more corporate than it used to be.

I think 'old age' is a good discussion to raise, even if to give advice from within the BK world. Like you say, they do become multi-layered and so you might need to have to break though the first ones. You can tell her you know they say Destruction will come any moment but you can also clearly state that they said their God said it would happen in 1950, 1976 and mid-1980s at least.

Usually BKs dismiss this was saying like "Baba was just testing us" or "Baba has never given a specific date" ... the latter is true to the point of day and month but false to the point of year. You can download and show her old images from the Library section to prove this.

Yes, she might be independent and genuinely pleased to see you. And, yes, she might just be "serving" you ... interested for the sake of evangelism until it is clear that you are not interested or become a challenge to her faith. Her faith might be a mask for other issues and tread carefully. Looking at it from that point of view might be better than attacking the religion, 5,000 Year Cycles, belief God is speaking through their mediums etc head on.

savefriendfrombk

friends or family of a BK

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Re: Met a BK

Post22 Sep 2010

Regarding freedom, she is very possessive about it. She always had that freedom for past 10 years. Did whatever she liked eg. trekking, Indian cultural music (SPIC Macay). Somewhere along the line, someone enticed her into BK or maybe she came through BK youth movement. Yet to find out that.

So marriage would cut that freedom, particularly BK. So it's a big NO for her. The other point is single celibate life can be very lonely so BK is providing her with the companionship and involvement with something.

The plan I have is to make her interact more with non-bk trusted people like parents and close friends. We won't pressurize just keep her involved and hope she comes back.

Will find out more about lifestyle in subsequent meetings. Will keep posted.
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ex-l

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Re: Met a BK

Post22 Sep 2010

I don't want to generalise about India these days because I know very little about it in real terms. I understand it is changing but, equally, for women ... not that much. I can imagine how having a bozo husband is the last thing on earth she would wants, perhaps even having her mother's taste in "suitable boys". Of course, that does not exclude there being an acceptable, modern, intelligent guy for her. Or an independent life.

If the BKs hooks are in deep, it is very difficult to get them out. It is like a mental spider's web in which individuals are trapped and fed off financially and for free labor. If I was to suspect there was a 'pay off' which kept people, I would suggest that was some kind of ego gratification the BKWSU offers to individuals to make them feel more special, important, associated with powerful people than they otherwise might be if they were not in the BKWSU. And there is the mediation which can be quite hypnotic, entrancing or emotionally powerful. More than non=adherents can imagine.

This is my interpretation ... for Westerners the BKWSU offers a kind of "India Lite" relatively exotic and Hindu experience. That is part of the attraction for many. For Hindus, I question whether part of the attraction now is the BKWSU modernity or internationalist appeal. Against the blind faith and extreme aspects of Hinduism, Brahma Kumarism must come across as quite modern and reformed. I don't know that. In a way, I am asking you how it is seen. Western BKs have flavored Indian Brahma Kumarism at least superficially.

It will also be helpful and interesting for us to read about how "modern", independent Indian woman use and adopt Brahma Kumarism because most of the examples we see are of more traditional "surrendered" types of undereducated Indian woman carrying out primarily functionary duties ... free servants, basically, to the Sindhi leadership and their inner circles.

She might be intrigued if you know and can you some of their specific language and terms, though might run a 1,000 miles if you mentioned you learnt it from this website. Our "Knowledge" here is good and highly accurate. Moreso than they would care to admit.

savefriendfrombk

friends or family of a BK

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  • Joined: 26 Jul 2010

Re: Met a BK

Post22 Sep 2010

Spirituality is big these days in India. There are a lot of gurus like Ravi Shankar (AOL), AshaRam Bapu, Baba Ramdev, Amrita Maa etc. But none of them have draconian control like BK. Nobody bars them from having family life.

Unlike BK there is a lot of media coverage for them. BK is very secretive. Only recently I heard about BKs.

As for my friend and other modern young indians, they go in search of spirituality. They are not well informed of BK. And soon become hooked because of lifestyle control (food, sleep, sex deprivation). Their teachers are also hooked. In fact, what I understand is that except for top leaders of BK/high-profile BKs almost everyone is hooked.

Another difference between Indian and Western BKs are that most Indian BKs are not involved that much like Western BKs. They go on with their normal work. So they are not full-time. Similarly, since the involvement is not as tremendous, the chance of getting discontent is also less.

As regards her, I am not going to mention this site now. High chance of losing everything. Rather take it slow and if she inclines to come back, then direct her here.

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