A bit confused

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Elemental

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A bit confused

Post06 Jan 2011

Hi,

I am going through a bit of confusion I have been with the BKs six months now and, in myself, have started questioning if God is really being channelled. I have no doubt an advanced spirit person is being chanelled but my gut feeling is they are claiming God status. This has brought a sense of guilt to me and getting up at 3.45am for the past six months has left me somedays exhausted again I am questioning, do you need to get up at this time to connect with God?

The easy answer is to walk away but I do not find it that easy. The people have being really warm and welcoming over the last six months, especially the senior Sisters, but I am now finding they are emailing me teachings and exercises too. It is crazy that I feel guilty questioning and guilty walking away I have even found myself making excuses as to why I have missed morning Murli on occasions I have being to embarrased to say I wanted to sleep.

Can any one relate to this and maybe help me sort out the confusion? :oops:
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ex-l

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Re: A bit confused

Post07 Jan 2011

Hi there Elemental. Welcome to the forum.

3.45am ... no, of course not. Logically, what difference would a clock make to an "eternal and blissful spirit being" in Nirvana (if we are to accept what the BKs tell us). You are a grown adult. Do you not have the right to moderate your own sleep and know best when your body is tired or not? It dangerous because they push you past and block out your own intuitions about what is best, or even necessary, for yourself.

Yes, I think in my more benign moments I could accept that "an advanced spirit being" (or beings) was being channelled by the Brahma Kumari psychics. Of course, there is a difference between "more" advanced and "most" advanced. Yes, we have unearthed far too much evidence, over far too long a period, to suggest for one moment that it was actually the one and only "God Father" of all humanity.

By that I mean that I could easily admit that in many way Lekhraj Kirpalani was a far more accomplished human being than I am. Big house, big family, successful business, local politics, dealings with powerful people ... there is no doubt that in worldly terms he was a much bigger person that you or I are. But that certainly does not make him God as the early BKs believed until after 1950! It also makes me wonder what kind of people could believe he was god for the best part of 20 years. He and they were trapped by their culture baggage. Why voluntarily become so?

If we accept the spiritualistic model, the other element to add into the equation is that there is Lekhraj Kirpalani and other spook or spooks involved. If so, what is their nature? They may well be "powerful". They may well be able to do all sorts of cool tricks. Actually, I don't disagree with that. I know that strange and wonderful things do happen around the Brahma Kumaris ... BUT ... where has it taken them, what have they become, does the logic, integrity and conduct all add up?

For me, that is where the whole BKWSU thing fell apart. When I looked at the behind the doors conduct and the level their minds were at, I just could not believe in it any more. I could accept it is "a god" ... but I could not accept that god as my god any more.

I was willing to "suspend my disbelief" and experiment with the practise and lifestyle, I gave it a good shot, but at the end I just could not accept that "God", and his exclusive top 108 human representatives on earth, were so mediocre and crappy. That was YEARS before I ever started to hear about all the financial corruption, sex controversies and abuse. I was totally innocent to it all when I stop going. I just did not understand why the best "God" could get up to was social climbing ... pointlessly chasing royalty and lowly VIPs, spending all its money doing PR and conning people into or believing or change rather than real good and solid logic.

In my days, we had very good direct access to the Seniors, and as sweet and as fun it could be, I was always left with a feeling that they really had no answers to the difficult questions and the game was just all about chasing the money and status. If you were useful, they used you; if not, they REALLY used you (you were servant material). I like Indian culture and communities. It is a relative safe community to take rest and repair oneself in ... but then leave when the time is right.

If I was to be strict, I would have to ask, would "God" use subtle chains of human friendship, guilt and shame to bind people in? Would truth and maturity not come first? Like the frog in the pot, you are being slowly cooked. Would a real spiritual master/teacher/guide ... not spending sometime finding out what you need and encourage you to find your own path rather than fit you into their mould on their conveyor belt?

Speaking from the BK point of view, you have experienced what their god spirit and Seniors instruct BKs to do. The slow sell, the warm bath, the extra care and nurturing in your "spiritual infancy and childhood" ... grooming is I think what they call it in the lokik sense.

New BKs are the life blood and refreshment of a BK center as the old ones drop away or relationships go sour and dry. They are nice, you get do extra attention. It is not as obvious as "love bombing" but that is what they do until they want back from you. Don't mistake it for the reality of what is there after committing. It sounds like they are starting to pressurising you and demand more back off you.

If Shiva is your God, then enjoy your personal relationship with him by all means. Ask for the Murlis to be sent to you and read them at home in your own time. Ask for some space to experiment with that approach and see how it feels. Be mature and adult about it. Don't give yourself away to someone else that may well be at a lower spiritual level.

Elemental

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Re: A bit confused

Post14 Jan 2011

Thank you ex-l

I am thinking a bit clearer now I have not being to the BKs for two weeks now, you're right I do feel like I have being giving myself away. I now have gone back to meditating in my own time and space, but I do observe how the mind kicks back to Baba I suppose that is from six months of meditating their way. Its funny how my mind plays tricks in this way and I have even had the thought misfortune may come my way now I have questioned who Shiva is. Absurd I know but still pops into my mind.

I am slowly retuning to the God I knew in meditation that has the vastness and loving energy I can relate to. The senior Sisters have still asked me to come along even just for the programs or meditation I have just replied to them I am unable to at the moment. I really do not want to cause them any offence. I do not think I could read the Murli's now even though they are enlightened and have moral guidance, now I feel Shiva is not the greater God that religions talk of, it's amazing what six months has done. I am not anti BK. The people I met were kind people but my wardrobe is 50% full with white clothing. I was following Shrimat to the letter which now makes me feel like I am blowing in the wind a bit it does feel strange not having the routine now. Wow it really feels like 2011 is goning to be a time for re-adjustment for me.
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ex-l

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Re: A bit confused

Post15 Jan 2011

Excuse me continuing to play the cynic ...

A lot of BKism comes straight and plainly from Sindi culture. One of the their yuktis (methods) was always "to be sugar in the milk", which I understand to mean, a) to be sweet so people like you, and b) to dissolve into whatever local environment one finds oneself almost invisible. The Sindi caste the BKs belonged to were world traders, who travelled to make money and learned to quickly fit and adopt to local cultures. Not rock the boat. It is really not that magical. Generations of survival between Hindu and Islamic powers taught them adjustability.

One of the questions that arises for me is, is that "kick back to Baba" you talk about really a kick back to Baba or just a kick back to something more universal that the Brahma Kumaris have grabbed, labelled and monopolised for their world business?

I don't know the answer. I am suspicious and dislike that pull now. I do not want to be part of their larger empire. One cannot trust their god. Put simply, their god is not trustworthy, he is dishonest, manipulative and inaccurate. That is a fact. Despite however intoxication the BKs' method is ... if you sober up and look at the facts, they do not add up.

If at any point the god of the Brahma Kumaris stopped, spoke intelligently, address the errors and anomalises and said, "Look guys, this is what is going on here ... the only way to get this monkey headed Hindus to become better people is to trick, scare and cajole them into being better", then I think I could accept him as THEIR teacher ... but not MY teacher, thank you. I have higher standards and expectations. I want my god to be honest, rational and accurate!

So, back to the mediation and "spacing out" ... for a long time I stay well away from any mediation because I found that when I approached it exactly the same thing happened. I was pulled back into the BKs' thing without wanting or wishing to. Now, to the BKs this might be "proof" I am still a BK at heart or BKism is the truth but, for me, this was evidence that it was something happening against my will and so therefore not good. It did not make me happy. Others here have spoken about feelings of being subjected to attacks and attachments.

Yes, of course, the BKs will try every avenue to keep you hooked to their system both out of what they consider to be good wishes but also out of a need to sustain THEIR faith. Obviously you or someone leaving is a rejection of their god and truth and makes other BKs question what they are doing. Yes, most come across are nice people ... but then so do all conmen. It is how they work. If the devil was going to approach you, do you think he would wear red and have two horns and a tail showing?

Given the failure of predictions of Destruction, human population etc, given the rank and stinking coverups and historical re-writes the leadership has done, how it has mislead generations of followers whilst living off them, I cannot trust them at all. No one can trust them or their god until they clean up there act and address all the problems.

That they REFUSE to, yes, arrogantly REFUSE to, suggests to me that they are not of god at all. That there is some other kind of principle at work here.

Elemental

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Re: A bit confused

Post15 Jan 2011

I like your point ex-l, have the BKs just labelled and packaged that which has always being universal in feeling it definately flips things on its head. I think your right maybe I should break from meditation for a while just to let things settle. It is really quite subtle the changes that seem to have happened in my thinking I even find myself saying good morning Baba when I wake up somtimes still. And when I speak (or pray) to the God I once new the terminalogy is still there with some of the words I find my self saying Shiva,Baba Om Shanti even before I realise I have said it.

You know on the clarity and honest thing, one morning class the Murli mentioned the Christ soul had left Jesus's body whilst he was on the cross. The Sister said this would of happened whilst he was alive because he cried out God you have forsaken me. So I questioned this and said, so the Christ soul must of being another enlightened soul if Baba has said the Christ soul left the body, she could not answer this and became slightly agitated, and said there is only one pure soul and that is Brahma Baba and he is the Chariot. And continued pointing to his picture saying in so many words this is all that matters. It didnt really answer anything and skirted the question with no truth or clarity.

Looking back now I think I felt then they do not like questions. I know I was with them only six months but things are certainly coming to the surface, even a member of my family said you were really into them really apart of it, I look now and think how and why. Wow it does feel I got some unravelling todo.

Thanks for your input ex-l, I do not think of it as cynical but constructive in helping to weed out some of the stuff.
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Mr Green

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Re: A bit confused

Post16 Jan 2011

it is not God

Elemental

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Re: A bit confused

Post17 Jan 2011

I believe you are right Mr Green, a coyote trickster I am thinking.

xephani

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Re: A bit confused

Post06 Jun 2012

It's all made up. But Gulzar Bhen is a beautiful person and very loving and kind. There is no such thing as God, soul or Soul World or reincarnation - but we do have a life - and it is amazing. The BKs provided sanctuary for many young women who did not want to have arranged marriages - women are seen as possessions in some places and cultures - and their feelings are not considered - so a group like this is a metaphorical Godsend.

Enjoy the experiences and connection you have with others - but know that unless you have money that you are willing to give or status with which you can promote the BKs - you will not be given any special treatment, support and care.

Although I don't know your situation - and so I cannot really say how it will be for you - I can offer what I have in terms of love and support ... which I give freely :).

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