Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

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AscensionAddiction

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism

Post20 Apr 2012

ex-l wrote:I guess I would say it would be better if they were given what they needed, e.g. community structure and support without any of the delusion or coercion and manipulative End of the World stuff.


Agreed.
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ex-l

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

Post20 Apr 2012

AscensionAddiction wrote:You are only trapped until you realise you are not trapped. The cage door is unlocked. And are we not all, at least in some degree, deluded still?

Oh, don't most people in the world think that everyone else is deluded ... except for them!?! ;-)

What interests me is how we can be trapped despite not really believing. The beliefs are not the part which traps us, except to the degree they consume our mind and stop it from thinking about other stuff (I have the image of the monkey with his fist caught in the trap).

So what is it that traps us?

The relationships or connectivity to the social fabric of the BK community are one part. We are disconnected from all others and then reconnected to them. That probably pulls on all sorts of subtle strings we don't realise. Addiction to the meditatiary experiences, especially during the Honeymoon Period, is another. They are quite a high ... but generally wear off sooner rather than later.

I think it is something more than just these but I cannot put my finger on it. I am sure many, many people wonder how and why they got caught. One of the things ex-cult therapists often says is that cult members are often of a slightly higher than average intelligence ... suggesting that this is part of how they were able to be trapped. I am not sure how.

I don't know you but I am thinking of people like Neville, Brian, even Sarah ... individuals far more competent, intelligent and driven than I am ... and wonder how they ever got sucked in and stuck? Perhaps there was something else very simple missing from their life ... like the simple community spirit and bond found within Asian/Indian communities? Or may be they were bewitched and possessed ...

Of course, they all could just say, "it's the truth" but we know it's not.

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AscensionAddiction

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

Post01 May 2012

ex-l wrote:So what is it that traps us?

One of the things ex-cult therapists often says is that cult members are often of a slightly higher than average intelligence ... suggesting that this is part of how they were able to be trapped. I am not sure how.

I like the idea that the fact I was caught up in it could actually be a sign of intelligence :-) but, as you say, not sure what the connection is there. For me, my intellect was attracted to the simplicity of the philosophy and how it seemed to provide an overview of everything. Maybe also, those who are more intelligent have a greater need for the love of the community.
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ex-l

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

Post01 May 2012

AscensionAddiction wrote:I like the idea that the fact I was caught up in it could actually be a sign of intelligence :-) but, as you say, not sure what the connection is there ...

Hmmnn ... not that intelligent unfortunately. Nor "street wise" either. The cult experts say "slightly above average" not a lot..

I wonder if what the BKs call "ego" is another component? A mixture of the need for regard, to think of oneself as being "special" ... special just for thinking it rather than actually doing anything to prove or manifest it. I am wondering if it is partially a comfortable regression to a child-like state again, like when we were our parent's "god child", the center of our own universal and the focus of all their attention.

It would make sense then why women and particularly elderly woman of mother and grandmother age would work so well as leaders to love and dote on us ... especially when they have never had children of their own (i.e. requiring surrogate children).

Mother-child is iconography that often arises and infantilisation is common within the religion I argue ... wasn't "the mother" Brahma ... Lekhraj Kirpalani ... orphaned at an early age or something? (I cannot remember).

xephani

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

Post06 Jun 2012

You make a good point ... ignorant and proud - or ignorant with an active avoidance of hearing any facts and evidence that contradicts the BK teachings.

Koolbloke

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

Post08 Jun 2012

Hi, I've breezed through the discussion here and I liked the fact that the person who initiated it takes full responsibility of the choices he / she made along the way, particularly when he / she said that it would it would have been less painful had he / she opted to leave BK earlier.

For sure there is some sort of brainwashing typical of some religions / cults and it is our pre-disposition or metal state of the time that lead us to decide on how long to stay in the BK. But it is ultimately "our choice".

I, personally, left at an early stage as "my choice" was to raise a family with my wife. But I kept the good parts of BK's philosophy that still today help me go through difficult times more peacefully. Going shopping is no therapy, that much I realised a long time ago.

It is good to see that many here eventually found out that the BK was not meant "for them" (better later than never), like myself, and are now dealing with their past experiences and moving on.

Their stories, that are shared here, hopefully will help others take "their own decision", one way or the other. Whatever makes one happy.

alanna

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

Post08 Jun 2012

Hi koolbloke,

I think it's important to remember that all the BK centres operate differently, depending on who is in charge and who attends. Not everyone will have had the same experience as you, and some will have been subjected to thought reform techniques to a much greater extent (though some perhaps not at all). These techniques can override free will and "choice".

My dad went through a typical dramatic personality shift when he was recruited into the BKs. He couldn't talk to anyone other than about BK stuff, heard voices, stopped having any physical contact whatsoever with my mum. He wouldn't eat a single thing I cooked for years and years because I was impure and would affect his "stage". I had to get up at 5.30am during primary school to listen to confusing, highly emotive and repetitive claptrap that told me the world was about to end, that I wasn't real, that I had to detach myself from my body and all the people around me, and I became depressed, suicidal and self-harmed as a teenager.

I don't hold my dad responsible for this, and I don't think it's fair to expect ex-BKs to take "full responsibility" for what they did and what happened to them after they joined the group. Many have been and are being manipulated, deceived and controlled - even if (as AscensionAddiction describes) the BKs who initiated them into the group did so with good intentions and were unaware that the techniques they use are controlling (or even techniques!).

My personal view is that most BKs are engaged in misguided altruism, because they were sucked in themselves at some point and do genuinely believe in what they are doing. Even the senior Sisters were recruited and indoctrinated as teenage girls, so I am not sure how much I agree with ex-l's assessment of them, though I am sure Brahma Baba was a typical cult leader/conman. This doesn't mean, however, that they don't inadvertently cause harm to others.

I am disinclined to recommend that people pick and choose the bits of BK lifestyle/philosophy that they find helpful because by having contact with the organisation they risk being fully pulled in and having their lives turned upside down - breaking up from their partner, potentially not having children, giving up their job, cancelling their pension, paying money to the BKs every month and signing their will over to them, worrying about the world ending, feeling intense guilt and shame about not being pure or soul conscious enough, suppressing their sexuality - the list goes on. I am glad this did not happen to you, anyway!
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ex-l

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Re: Conspiracy or misguided altruism?

Post08 Jun 2012

Koolbloke wrote:... But it is ultimately "our choice".

I disagree with you Koolbloke. It is not quite so black and white exclusive.

As someone that has had some experience with individuals who have suffer child sex abuse, for example, I find it impossible to say "it was their choice" ... and I reject the New Agey/Karmic philosophy that suggests it was too.

However, I do not wish to make an example out of such an extreme case.

What I was thinking about was how easily it was for them to be manipulated and abuse by others, once broken by one person. How they found themselves in position carrying out actions that they absolutely did not wish to do so ... but yet found themselves powerless and controlled.

If we look anything from the effects of stage hypnosis to mass marketing, I think we can see other clear examples of the power of suggestibility to which some of us are more prone than others.

I can accept believing everything was "our choice" is a good cure for a culture or mentality of blaming others ... but I reject it as an objective truth. I think to present it as such could be damaging to the most damaged.

I am slightly defensive as well because behind it lies typical Brahma Kumarisms, e.g. "it's your decision ... no one is forced to follow ..." etc which are true enough to a degree BUT not absolutely true when at the same time one is being deeply hypnotised and mentally programmed. And add to that force of collective consciousness whether you see it as a real thing or a social metaphor for group pressure, as with Alanna's example above.

There is even a term for it in psychology ... Folie à deux (or shared psychosis).

Do you agree there might be limitations to that theory?

(Thank you for your deeply personal and earnest post, alanna).
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