Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

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jayred

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Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

Post01 Nov 2012

I am an ex-BK (and am proud and happy of the "ex" part). I took "Gyan" long back in India, when I was a teenager. The lady who gave me the course was very sweet (she was also very very beautiful). It is humanly not possible for males to not notice her beauty and to not get attracted to her (even though at that time, I did not let any romantic thoughts enter my mind because of the so-called "spiritual brother-sister" relationship).

Later, I have moved to a different country (in the West) and have a very very successful career. I consider her one of the top 5 beautiful people I have met in my life (her sweet personality adds very much to her charisma). I learnt that she is now a center-in-charge. I know that center-in-charges are stubborn BKs. She has been a BK throughout her life (from childhood), and did not leave it even though the rest of her entire family "defected" to Shankar party.

Do you think there is any possibility I can persuade her to leave BK, if I express my romantic interest?

I have been away from BK for a long time now. I know nobody can predict these things but, I am just hoping that the passage of time and the reality of the world have made at least some BKs realize their folly. How is the BK morale? Are they still in complete delusion, or is there a slight chance that they may come back to the world. I just cannot understand how people can believe in something such unscientific as BK. When I was introduced to BK, I was not experienced and educated enough by that age to discern the truth and thus fell for the philosophy. With more life experience and scientific education, I was able to get out successfully.

Even if Shiv Baba/God does exist in some form, I am against him for stealing some beautiful women (specially the one I am talking about) from the rest of humanity (and from me) :).
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ex-l

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Re: Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

Post02 Nov 2012

Thank you for your post and thank you for your honest. Top marks for escaping the hooks of the Brahma Kumaris by yourself. I think you define many truths about the BKWSU, in particular their tendency to target and exploit vulnerable and inexperienced individuals, not educate them properly and even separate them from the real world so that they cannot develop properly. Top marks for leaving and developing yourself in the real world, professional etc.

It sounds like this woman never had a chance in life, that she never had a choice and was enculted by her parents who much have been BKs first but whom, themselves, have already left the BKWSU. Therefore my guess is they must have seen some of the ignorance and corruption and she must have been told about it ... but what could she do? Her dowry was probably given to the BKWSU and she had to obey, firstly her parents and, secondly, the senior BKs.

My honest opinions are that given the BK programming is so deep and total ... especially the fears of human closeness and attachment and eternal failure that they fill young adherents' minds with ... it is likely to be difficult to achieve what you seek *BUT* that should not stop you trying. I encourage you to do so with true love and compassion.

When I think about my own experience, I too can remember such a woman and sometimes I wondered if there was a mutual attraction there. I made the mistake of not doing so and I regret it. I had left the BKs by then but I continued to show respect for the decision she had apparently made.

I know she spent many unhappy years under the Seniors and almost or did suffer a breakdown under the BK influence, then waste many more years as a half and half BK before finally leaving. She spoke to me of the ignorance and abuse within the BKWSU, and how it made her want to leave. Later I met her and I discovered that she had married and for all intents and purposes had became very happy, free and developed in her professional life. I thought the guy was very lucky but truly did not fully understand and appreciate all that she was. Although they shared professional equivalences, he lacked the spiritual interests she still had. I should have followed my feelings.

My theoretical advice to you would be as follows (but you have to make your own decision because I do not know you or her and if it all blows up in your face, I cannot take responsibility! Either way it should be fun) ...

a) Engineer a situation where you can be alone with her either in the BK center or outside of it. It does not really matter. It is probably better to be somewhere where she can feel open and comfortable. This should not be difficult if you do not let on what you intend to do. Just ask to speak to her about matter relating to The Knowledge in peace and private.

b) Be absolutely honest to her and lay it out as an offer to her ... tell her you know exactly how she has been trained to think and how she is likely to respond to such a suggest *BUT* that you think she is an extremely beautiful woman, you love and respect her, and that she ever wanted to leave The Knowledge you would offer your hand, security and a safety net for her to do so ... even if she was to decide to leave and move on in life at a later point.

You might also tell her that you know many new findings have been made about the history of the Brahma Kumaris that prove without doubt that they have been deceiving people for many decades, that what she has been taught may be different from the truth and if she knew that truth she might think differently about the leaderships, and that at present the leadership is re-writing the history and philosophy, as it is likely that such a lowly center-in-charge has not be told about such things.

I know that some center-in-charges are stubborn ... but, at the same time, I know that many are just young girls who they have treated very strictly and given much extra-brainwashing and abuse to make them totally obedient ... and to brainwash others. It is like a pyramid sales cult, or child abuse, where one generation abuse the next in the same manner. But I also know that all Brahma Kumaris are also human beings.

I am thinking that she has probably never been given real love and told she is beautiful. If she has been brought up by a BK mother then in the BKWSU, she has probably only even been given negative feedback about her beauty ... but I find it impossible to believe that any woman (any person indeed) would not be touched by someone telling them from their heart that they are beautiful.

Don't be creepy or obsessive. Be calm and understanding. You may even have to tell her more than one so that she accepts it ... then, I would say, put a little bit of a deadline on for yourself because you cannot wait forever. Ask her to think about. I have actually seen a rare Brahma Kumari honestly advertise for marriage partner, so it does happen. I am sure many more think about it.

The risks?

She might just say, no. You have to accept that *BUT* I think it is far better for you to be honest and if she refuses at least you did your best and tried. You know. It may be god is touching you to rescue her from them!!!

The other risk area is this ... that she does leave but then at a later date goes back or vacillates between you and the BKWSU. You should be prepare for this and try an avoid it by creating as much separation from the BK influence as possible at least to begin with. In our experience here, the BKs will try and hang on to her, fight for her even, continuing calling her, pulling on her and playing with her mind to get her to come back because her leaving and becoming happy is a great challenge to them and their faith.

She will need special support at a philosophical level but you as an ex-BK are the most qualified to give it. Some people are weak and confused and crumble after they leave the BKWSU and believe they need to go back ... but most never do. Most never want to have anything more to do with them after they go. Some ex-BK have a difficult time re-adopting to sex and affection, others have none at all.

Good luck, let us know how it went. If you do it, it make a great sense for a movie!
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ex.brahma

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Re: Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

Post02 Nov 2012

There is one thing I do not understand in your story!

You say that you were a teen-ager when the beautiful lady started to give you BK courses, which implies that she is many years older than you! ... Is that correct ? ... such big age difference, especially from the female side, should also be considered for a successful future family life.
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jayred

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Re: Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

Post03 Nov 2012

ex-I. Thanks for such a detailed analysis and reply. I am happy to be in the company of sophisticated thinkers (not in an egoistical way). Thanks for the advice. I will weigh the risks and see what I can do. In Indian society, it is not easy to be free and open. There are a lot of societal pressures and implications to what you do.

ex-brahma. Yes, you are right. She is older than me by 6-7 years, but she should still in her early 30s and I am OK with it. As you rightly pointed out, it may not be practical from a family point of view and I have to think about it. Also she may not have the same feelings for me as I am younger than her. At the same time, ex-BKs are probably the most experienced at breaking taboos (having done it going into BK and then coming out of it).
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ex-l

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Re: Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

Post03 Nov 2012

You are too kind Jayred and of course you are welcome here as one of us and an equal. Unlike the BKWSU, we encourage people to think, ask and question ... even challenge them so they stretch themselves.

When I was young I made a mistake by thinking the BKWSU really was a "Spiritual University". I really wanted to study at a spiritual university and study real spiritual knowledge. I hung around and fooled myself for a few years believing that within the movement I was going to find something deeper or an inner circle where the really interesting went on ... what a *big* mistake! It does not exist. The BKWSU should be called the BKWGK ... the Brahma Kumaris World Geriatric Kindergarden.

Back to your paramour ...

Yes, I am partly aware of the problems you are likely to have and the cultural differences around the world, and we all know all the mental and social defences the Brahma Kumaris are pre-programmed with. I also do not know how big a town or city your live in, whether you live near the center or are in anyway connected to it.

How do you think best to approach it? How do you think it would be possible within your cultural environment?


Let us think about how they are pre-programmed in India and elsewhere ... it might help others too. Of course, some ex-BKs here might tell you stories of BK Sisters who have almost jumped on top of them, and a number of high flying Western Brahma Kumaris, including center-in-charges, have all taken sexual holidays ... so the experience does vary. We know of at least two center-in-charges who carried on a secret sexual affair ... one even got married ... and perhaps one lesbian one.

Obviously, her first defence might be that you are just a "lusty dog" attacking her with the "sword of lust". That should be easy to avoid, you could easily offer a marriage based on love and companionship rather than sex. For example, BK Shivani has a husband. That is a good example.

Then there is the purely human element of "shame". She will wonder how she will be able to hold her face up in the future if she is around places where the BKWSU is.

Brahma Kumaris are conditioned to believe love, sex and human affection is shameful ... "blackening the face", "dirtying her costume", "spoiling her chart", or even "putting on bloody leather clothes" are all images the BKs uses. The young virgins have also been encouraged in the past to think of sex and men as awful things on the basis of idea passed down to them by the Seniors and false stories of the Om Mandli days. "Destroying her inheritance" is a big mantra within the BKWSU and to destroy the "high status" of being a center-in-charge, and perhaps one of the 16,108 deities, might be a difficult idea if she still believes in it.

I am not sure that center-in-charges are more "stubborn" than normal. Yes, we have all met some bossy bull BKs but I think what happens to the Sisters who are streamed for becoming center-in-charges is that they are given additional brainwashing and during their unpaid servant period, treated very strictly or even severely. I have tried to discuss this on the forum and the secrets of Kumari training, but there are few of them to speak out. They have all sorts of extra rules to follow.

In fact, to have an ex Indian center-in-charge BK leave and then speak out about the system honestly would be very useful for us.

Agewise, I would not be too worried either. The good thing about the BK life is that it keeps people younger than their age ... as long as they do not go to fat because of overeating due repressed emotions ... and, to be honest, women improve with age.

A woman in her early 30s is just entering into her prime and, if she has taken care of herself, will be becoming even more beautiful ( ... avoid those that have not looked after or developed themselves because they are just about to explode and deflate!).

If we were to imagine the unimaginable, child bearing would not be entirely impossible ... but there are other alternatives born out of an even greater love, such as adoption, to consider. And God know India has more than enough children to adopt if that is what you want. Please adopt many! Loving is a reward in itself and loving that which needs love the most is a far greater act then just loving selfishly something you want for yourself or for your own gratification. Child bearing can often be a very ignorant and selfish act.

(To be frank, mothers who are selfishly absorbed in "their child" over other children, and treat them like they were an extension of their body disgust me slightly, as does the whole idea of nepotism and protecting blood lines for the sake of property and status. We should love all children as if they were our own and chose the best of them for the right purposes).

This subject of child love and child bearing is one Brahma Kumaris rarely discuss, but it must be very difficult for them. 99.9% of women I know love children intensely.

One honest and intelligent Brahma Kumari admitted to me that she "felt her body crave having a child". That is to say, due to the nature of her genes and hormones and internal organs, her body reminded her that she was a woman and should reproduce ... that child bearing was part of her dharma. To steal that experience from young women and the comfort, simple pleasures and security it generally brings is criminal ... all for the mad goose chase BKism has become.

We know why the BKs suppress and avoid this and it is not for the reasons they claim. Why they are so anti-sex and anti-children is a good question to ask ... I think for them it is merely a matter of 'expedience' (serving a purpose efficient).
    "Why go to the effort and expense to have children to expand your religion ... when you can just steal other women's?"
Do you know, I knew of a young woman in the 1980s who the Kripalani Klan leaders advised to have an abortion because the End of the World was going to come in two or three years and it would be a distraction from her Yoga and doing service. She was already pregnant before she became a BK and thankfully she left and did not listen to them. Married women are second class citizens in the BKWSU.

Is your friend a "career BK" or do you think she only became a BK because her family pushed her and she had no choice. If she had no choice and merely had to resign herself to a life as a BK, perhaps you have a greater chance? If not, please consider rescuing another BK ... the only think I would refuse to do, and be very clear about this, is to support her to be a BK. For anyone reading this in a similar situation, make that very clear.

Our family or the BK family; one or the other. Indeed, you could even say the Human family or the BK family, as the BKs are so anti-humanity other than themselves.

The BK movement is run by "the clever businessman". They allow other families to go to the pain and expense of producing children and then where they are fully formed, like you and I were when we encountered the BK, just steal their minds and put them to service as "their family". This is why the BKs talk about "family" all the time ... with them as the self proclaimed elders who have to be obeyed and served by young girls like your friend.

The Brahma Kumaris are like spiritual cuckoos, planting their seeds and laying their eggs and having other little birds grow their children up.

I guess, because of all the defences, I considered the best approach was just to throw a "handgrenade" of truth in and see what happens. See if you destroy the defences. Perhaps in other situations a more gentle, persistent method might work?

What do you think?
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maria

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Re: Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

Post03 Nov 2012

Ex-brahma wrote:... such big age difference, especially from the female side, should also be considered for a successful future family life.

Excuse me. So what? How many men do you know who have married a younger woman??

And "considered for a successful future family life", considered by whom? Society? BK? Relatives?

This woman has had HER LIFE wasted by BK, and he has a loving feeling about her. Is she too old for children? Do you know that there are many women who choose not having children and they are happy, and the husbands
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ex-l

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Re: Attracted to a BK center-in-charge

Post03 Nov 2012

Many, many young women have had their lives wasted by the BKWSU.

The old crones (witches) of BK leadership have merely taken the place of the old men in the Panchayat controlling all the young people's self expression for the sake of their business and political interests. Their attitudes are based on ignorance, and Victorian Indian standards when the Indians were trying to be like the repressed and controlling English.

The biggest joke is when the Western BKWSU promotes itself a "feminist" ... it is not feminist at all. It is just casteist. The only difference is that it promote sexless old women to be the Brahmin top dogs instead of sexless old men.

Young people should be encouraged and protected to break free from the chains of 1930s Sinduism, explore love, life and express themselves fully in order to find and develop themselves spirituality. Young people should not be encouraged to strangle to death such big parts of themselves, it only warps and could even kill them to do so.

I have nothing against adult individuals who have fulfilled their lives and responsibilities choosing to retire to a spiritual life ... but the Brahma Kumaris have developed a business model which exploits the energy of young people and channels it into their control. In my opinion, they are like spiritual vampires ... but clever vampires. They do not kill the young people off quickly or entirely, they keep them alive and busy in the cages (centers) they build and just keep taking a little bit of their blood for the whole of their lives.

At the end of their lives, the young people end up with nothing. Dry. In the West, many Brahma Kumaris do see this, recognise it earlier and leave ... unfortunately in India, society does not so easily allow them to do so. They are imprisoned twice or three times; by their family, their BKs and their society and need to break free, or be broken free, from all three.

Is it true that in India it is impossible for an ex-Brahma Kumari to find someone to marry her? It is like a taboo, or people so dislike the BKs they would not do so? I would have thought they made good wives as long as they were completely divorced from the BK leaders.

We should start a campaign "Save the BKs" like other people "Save the Whales" ... Marry and save a BK from the BKWSU today!

I know one famous India guru started a campaign encouraging his followers to save girls thrown into prostitution by marrying them and I thought it was a great thing to do, to break that taboo. Many of these young BKs had no choice either.

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