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The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 25 Jan 2013
by Misty
The dawning of the truth

Oh boy, this is harder than I thought. Well, let me try.

By the way, I am not a native speaker. So If you might notice some inconveniences in my writing, you know why.

I believe there is a saying that, "time is scarse", so I will start with the most important. I have read some articles here but I do not know whether this subject is covered there. I think is is important enough to be told.

I joined the BK in 1990, in Autumn. By then I had failed to finish my studies, for which I had worked very hard. Because I had put so much energy in it, I felt as if my inner batteries were empty. I felt the need to recharge myself but did not know how.

A few months later I visited a New Age gathering where several New Age groups presented themselves. As I was walking around I heard two guys speaking about how the soul lost energy and that you could recharge yourself by connecting to the Supreme Soul. That having heard, I decided to do the introduction course.

Altogether, I have been roughly 1.5 years with the BK movement and attended only 50 sessions. Besides, that I meditated at home. I never took the morning classes.

As I was with the BKs, I always felt the need to implement The Knowledge they gave on the physical level. With that I mean that I wanted to give service to other people. At that time, I knew some addicted people that lived nearby. There was the head of the section in my country and she gave courses to these people. I was enthousiastic and asked if I could do the same. One of the BKs suggested that this lady could come along and give class, so that we could talk.

That day came. I was in high heavens to meet her. Before we started meditating a BK teacher came in. I looked at her and felt frightened. There was something about her. It was as if she was carrying something heavy and she moved in a strange way, but I could not see it. The idea of a chainsaw came into my thoughts. I don't know why. The BK that gave the special courses was sitting in front of the group of people attending the class. The other BK teacher landed exactly behind me. I felt unease and shifted a little. She followed me. I shifted again, she shadowed me. I gave up moving, thinking I was with Baba and safe.

The meditation started. The BK in front of me looked up and went into meditation. Then closed her eyes and waited for some time. It was as if her spirit left her and something else came in. Then she opened her eyes and looked around, looked at me.

By then, I was in meditation as well and as she looked at me I thought, "I am equal to you. You don't stand above me". She turned her head away in disgust, I guess as the vibrations came to her. Then it seemed as if something demonic took possesion of her. It was as if it had waited to meet me. She then connected with the other BK behind me, by eyesight.

Then it was as if a connecting wire was flung into the current and as if I vaguely heard the sound of a machine buzzing. I tried to stop it in thought, but couldn't. The next moment I noticed that my back was cut open and it hurt, but not in a physical way. A few seconds later it felt as if a knife or some other sharp object was cast into my back by the BK sitting behind me, with great force and anger.

I went home very upset and did not visit the BK centre for an few months. At home, I thought about the dreadful experience. I had read about non-BK mediums, healers that had spiritual helpers and did spiritual surgery on people to help them overcome diseases but this was nothing like that I said to myself. Then I thought about some kind of a punishment. Maybe because I was too bold. But it seemed more like a lynching. I did not know what to do with the experience and put it away.

In April 1992, I left the BK and never came back to them and stopped meditating. In 1994/1995, I had been abroad for a few months. When I came back, I felt at unease and tried hard to go back to the life I led before, to resume my life after the BK.

Via a family member I came in contact with a woman. She said she could help me. I just told her I had been abroad and had difficulty taking up my old life again. I just told her about my stay abroad.

Then she said she would help me and told me about the worse things that happened during my time at the BK. When she started, she told me she was getting an headache. It worsened and worsened at the point she almost had to vomit. I asked what was happening and she told me that all the bad things done to me went away via her.

She stopped, waited a few moments and than started again. The headaches came back to a point the she almost fainted. Then it got better. She told me she could see what happened. I had suffered from intense oxygen depletion, due to suffocation. She told me about people dressed in white that stood by my side and strangled me with silk bands. She also told me about the time my back was cut open and that there was a sharp object left there. She helped me in healing that wound.

Later when we talked, I asked how it was possible that I did not notice most of the things that happened to me. The woman told me it was because I was unconsious, deep asleep. When I was meditating I surrendered completely. I was defenseless and they could do with me whatever they wanted. I was completely in their power.

I told her though, that I had witnessed the lynching when the BKs cut my back. She told me that one time, at the end of meditation, I had fainted and did not respond to their calling. The BK had come to me and wokened me up and offered me some water. I was sitting in lotus position. It had happened just as she told.

During the time the woman gave me the healing, she reported that she was attacked and pushed aside. She told me it was by them who had done harm to me.

Later on, I told her that sometimes I had nightmares in which I dreamt that I was chocked. It started when I left the cult and has lasted for years. The woman told me these nightmares were the body remembering abuse recorded at an unconsious level.

After this meeting, I talked with her over the phone a few times. The woman explained to me that my vocal chords were injured and that I needed to heal them by singing special tones. I did not know how to do this and tried, but gave up. At the time, when I was with the BKs, I noticed once though, after a meditation, that when I tried to talk, my voice shifted to scratching, squeaking shortly. Since that time, I sometimes had little control over my voice for a few moments, especially when I was nervous. Years later, I had to consult a logopedist because I had small noodles on my vocal chords. I healed myself with speaking and tone-exercises.

I asked the woman why the BKs did the things they did and she told me that they had exerted extreme mesures to break my spirit and make a zombie of me. The reason they did this was because they wanted to possess the power I had with me, but it was in vain, because it was innate and could not be taken away. I had had my doubts after I left the cult and never exactly knew what had been going on there. To me, this explanation of hers was like the dawning of the truth.

She also told me it was useless asking why. They did this abuse with everyone.

This is roughly the story I Iived through it. I don't mind what other people think about it. These are my experiences. I am not going to bargain or negotiate over it. Take it or leave it as it is.

For me, having experienced this, I find it hard to believe that the suppreme being, or Baba, or BapDada or God, or Shiva or whatever the name given is, is so benevolent. I got no protection whatsoever from this soul. If it is all-knowing, all-seeing etc. it knew what was going on and did nothing to stop them. The BK that abused me were trained by it, energized by it and probably got The Knowledge to do this from it. Does this make it a suppreme being?

And do you know what the "suppreme soul" said to the BK that lynched me behind my back, a few months later when they were in Madhuban and were able to draw his attention amongst the crowd? "You are very good and clever in fastly giving the correct answers".

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013
by ex-l
Is there something dark behind the BKWSU? Yes, I believe there is. Anything that claims to be god that is not must be "evil" (* needs defined) or at least deluded to some degree ... and what we have discovered from our researches is that most of the "official" history of the BKWSU is false and misleading, scrambled to confuse people. There was no "God Shiva" in their religion until after 1950 and the deluded Lekhraj Kirpalani and the original Om Mandlites considered themselves to be "superior to an incorporal god".

That shows immense ego. A Global, Supreme, Ocean of Ego. Even I am not that dumb, so how could a "Father of Humanity" be so!?! Please ...

There is no doubt Brahma Kumarist practises can make some people very high to begin with, and it is during that time that they are mentally captured, but it generally wears off quickly. They think they made the decision themselves but they were hypnotised and conditioned. Lke hypnosis, it appears to be quite random or discriminating in who it effects. Just why some people are susceptible to it and other are not, is a question we have not answered. I would guess it breaks down in two ways, damaged inviduals who are vulnerable to abuse, and abusers who are attracted to control and abuse others. It's quite subtle in the BKWSU but there is a lot of abuse behind the scenes. People made to cry, people hurt and made to carry on.

One person here described her experience as 'spiritual rape', I described it more as 'spiritual child abuse' ... spiritual elders feeding off spiritual youngsters energy.

Just recently, on this forum, someone was telling their experience of what they considered to be a 'forced possession' by some other spirit entity and I also had that experience when I started into Brahma Kumarism. What it is exactly, I cannot say but it is different from simple "sleep paralysis".

Years ago, a number of individuals from various different countries all reported experience dark, shadowy psychic presences around them or in their house and very negative feelings about the BKs. Their partners were dabbling with BKism, fighting with their control. Even when I typed just that, I got "the shivers" from it. I have not had such vivid experiences as your but I have felt the cutting sharpness of the Seniors. They do hurt and cut many people to put them in their place.

Do we know that BKs work in the same manner as you described, yes we do. During my own time in the BKs and guiding meditations, it felt very much like some other being was taking over your body and control it, e.g. turning one's head to stare through you at others, giving them visions and experience one could not do normal and did not know how it was happening. In short, it was not me but something working through me beyond my control.

It was usually considered a very "powerful" experience to guide meditation and, that is true, it was for me ... but "powerful" does not necessarily mean "good".

We were taught to "laser beam", as I call it, through people's bodies and eyes right into their soul and imagining or enabling their 'spirit entity' BapDada to come through us at them. Other other times they claimed Mama, or other deceased BK leaders came into our bodies to use them ... how do they know who they are? They had no knowledge of spiritualism and yet 'spirit possession', as well as "over-shadowing" and channeling of other spirits, is something they recognise and believe happens. It is core to their teachings ... but don't teach people about openly, nor teach how to close down and protect oneself.

I don't think they want to, they want you to open up and allow them in, and so, perhaps, I would not blame that Sister ... but something working through her.

As I read your piece I was going to suggest you find a good psychic healers to explore what had happened to you as you obviously think and operate in that manner. I am very interested to read of your experience and her thoughts on the Brahma Kumaris and at what psychic level they operate.

I don't think it is correct to say the Brahma Kumaris are "spiritual". They are "spiritualist" or operate at a psychic level ... and the use of the words "spirituality" and "Yoga" are deceptive and misleading. They are psychics and channellers. I would say it is more accurate to describe their practise as "spirit channelling" rather than Yoga. They have stolen the term "Raja Yoga" from Hinduism because it is the "best" one and they always exaggerate themselves. Another clue of their spiritual level ... which I don't think is very high.

Please tell us more about what you saw and have learned.

I would like to offer you a few last pieces of information which might help. When Lekhraj Kirpalani started his seeking, just before he started his satsang, he is clearly reported to have gone to a "saddhu" and paid a very large sum of money to learn some psychic art or siddhi. After doing so, his personality changed considerably, he started breaking down and becoming obsessive, then wearing eyeliner (kohl or "antimony"), chanting and sending people into trances. He became very intimate with the girls. We have no idea at present just which saddhu or which practice he was initiated into. It is likely that even he had very little idea as he was not very religious nor spiritually educated.

Secondly, that the nature of the early 'spiritualist seances' at Om Mandli have been very falsely reported by the Brahma Kumaris. During them women would cry and wail and moan in a very disturbing manner. They were far from the "Om Shanti" of today. I think this gives up more insight, both into why they happened like that and why the Brahma Kumaris have covered it all up. Lekhraj Kirpalani was not the holy man they have portrayed him to be.

If you are not a sheep, the BKWSU is not the right place for you. Like any pyramid structure religion, it consists of few shepherds, employing a few sheep dogs, feeding off a large number of sheep who work for nothing and are disposed off if necessary.

From the beginning, Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Brahma Kumaris have made it their habit to put their "sheep" upfront and represent their religion with them, misleading others as to their real nature. By that, I mean the young kunyas (Indian virgins), or recently enthusiastic or egotistical foreigners who have given it a more modern, "Western" appeal and language.

Amongst them are "spiritual sheep dogs", controlling types of people who feed off being the "special ones" of the BK "shepherds", and close to them. We have a few of them come here to try and control us from time to time, these would include some but not all center-in-charges and most zone-in-charges, like Jayanti Kirpalani (Is she a sheep dog or a shepherd? I don't know but he's obviously being trained to take over the flock, a junior shepherd perhaps?).

Even amongst the flock, there are sheep who are more dominant than others and lead them but mostly they are all in fear; fear of stepping outside of the flock, fear of escape and the wild, fear of thinking for themselves, fear of the shepherds and the ultimate destination which, for the BKs, is the imminent trip to the slaughterhouse of Destruction.

When a leading sheep threatens to leave the flock, often the shepherds offer it a promotion as they are afraid others in the flock will leave them.

Whether Destruction will ever come, I cannot say. Life is likely just continue on haphazardly as it always has and humans will come and go. However, whether it does or does not, what is sure is that the shepherds will continue to live in comfort off the flock. The Brahma Kumaris is at best a school for shepherds, with a butcher house on the side rather than a school for those sheep who wish liberation and to liberate others.

I refuse to be a part of their farm.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013
by dany
If I were asked to give another title to this post, I would suggest "Hallucination under hypnosis influence" ...

After all, is not meditation with all what goes with it ... a mild hypnosis session ..??!!

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013
by ex-l
I've been criticised for this position before but I would say it is more than just a mild or profound hypnotism session.

Yes, there is the hypnotism but I would say the hypnotism is just used to get the mind into a certain passive state in which then other things or dynamics happen. Just what those dynamics are, it is perhaps impossible to say.

Obviously, I can accept the imagery which was coming to Misty's mind was of a symbolic nature. Obviously they are talking at a metaphorical or psychic level. But I could accept the concept of dynamics involved.

The Brahma Kumaris use the language and concepts of spiritualism and are used to them and so, therefore, I respond in that manner. Other people put other interpretations on them but I think that is risky because it takes one more step away from BKism.

If BKs are happy to see things in a psyche or spiritualist manner, using their own language for them, then I am happy to answer in manner.

I, personally, saw manner wierd and wonderful things happen in the BKWSU which step outside of the norm and I know that I did not seen any of the really weird stuff, like the claimed spiritual possessions that happen fairly regularly. I know some BK adherents never saw those and never experienced weird and wonderful things but I cannot deny they did.

Try reading up about spirits, aura, spiritual attachments, theories of possession, channelling and so on and see how similar it sounds to what goes on in the BK world.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013
by dany
A hypnotised person will be prepared to, act, believe, imagine, whatever he is told by the hypnotist, who becomes much more than his absolute master. I have witnessed my hypnotised friend eating his shoe with incredible appetite, when the hypnotist told him that was his favourite fruit.

"Spiritual Surgery"... !! Sounds like a new medical speciality, which I have not heard of before ...!!

The only spiritual surgeon I know of is Lekhraj Kirpalani, who has successfuly used his spiritual knife, to cut off BK cultists from their, true selves, families, community, and the rest of the genuine World ..!!

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 26 Jan 2013
by howiemac
Sheep are a very good analogy for the BKs. I certainly relate to it. These days when I dream of sheep, I know the dream is about the BKs. In the last dream I had, the sheep were dying on "Brahma Baba Island", which was otherwise deserted, and had become a desert!

I also associate hypnotic states, psychic channeling, possession, and a wide variety of weird, sometimes wonderful and sometimes very alarming experiences with my 5 years of BK life. Fortunately for me, I was already reasonably experienced in such esoteric and occult fields, and was able to protect myself, and handle whatever arose. I do not consider the BKWSU an appropriate environment for children, youths, those with any form of mental illness or weakness, the gullible or, in fact, for anyone other than experienced and courageous psycho/spiritual explorers. I had many experiences of psychic attack from certain BKs, including Dadi Janki. I am experienced in dealing with such things, but most people do not even accept the existence of such occult activities, let alone have any clue how to defend themselves.

Is BapDada evil? In my opinion BapDada is not evil. Deluded, certainly, I have no doubt about that. And BapDada is on a mission that I don't understand. The BKs are misguided by BapDada, but they are much more misguided by their own delusions, and these days they generally pervert BapDada's instructions.

There are many well meaning BKs. Some are very obviously spiritual people, and can be very inspiring. However, there are also plenty of people within the BKs who could be described as evil (depending on your definition) and certainly as caught up in darkness and fear, and trying to control and abuse others psychically and psychologically.

What is going on when conducting? With drishti? Personally, I loved these activities, all the more because of the roller-coaster-ride "close to the edge" nature of many of the experiences. For a mystic, BK life is anything but dull! When the others involved were reasonably pure and well intentioned, I had many very wonderful and elevated experiences through conducting and through the conducting of others. I also had a great many unpleasant experiences, some truly nasty, some I would describe as extreme psychic vampirism, from other characters, who were in no way spiritual, and some of these are high up in the BK hierarchy. With Dadi Janki, I experienced both extremes of wonderful experiences and real life horror shows.

They never taught me anything about drishti or conducting - I learned through experience only. And, as far as I know, there is nothing of substance in the Murlis on these core BK methods/activities. Yet, these very powerful techniques are endemic in BK life. They truly are like irresponsible children playing with fire. They push people into conducting as a privilege for good behaviour, and often these people don't want to do it, and/or cannot do it, and get visibly fried by the experience, whilst spoiling the experience for everyone else. That irresponsible attitude shocked and dismayed me at the time.

During my BK years, and for a couple of years after leaving, I had particular BKs waking me up telepathically in the early morning with stern commands or pleading. I never responded to this, but it was disturbing and annoying. I understand they sit in the centres at Amrit Vela, deliberately trying to "round up the flock" with such techniques. And those I knew who were following this routine had no idea what they were doing: they were just following orders.

All in all, a shocking catalogue of psychic tomfoolery, where most concerned have no clue what they are dealing with, or what do do if something goes wrong, and no training or support is provided. No wonder, many people associated with the BKs end up in psychiatric hospitals and/or heavily sedated.

The BKWSU is simply a madhouse. The lunatics are running the asylum.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 28 Jan 2013
by Misty
Thanks for all the reactions. I need a bit of time to respond to all the information given and to think in which form I will answer. I will try my best.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013
by Misty
Thanks for all the comments. As far as the comments on the conducting of meditation, these insights were new for me. I did notice of course, when I was meditating at the BK, but no perspective from the conductor's view. Thanks also for the other information given.

As answering to dany. From your profile, I got the idea that their is someone close to you that is with the BK. I hope that I can contribute something for your help.

As far as dany's comment on spirtual surgery I can say that on serveral occasions I came across this. Once in a book about healing, once in a New Age article in a magazine, with photos of the stitches, once in an interview of a healer who explained that deceased doctors and surgeons worked though her, the medium. However, I wish not to discuss this in depth cause it is not the teachings of the BK. If you wish so you can find the information yourself. Than it is up to you to decide what to think about that.

Responding to ex-l's request to tell more about my experiences and being of the opinion that there is more to tell, I will continue. Most probably I will consult another healer to work through the past experiences as suggested. If I come across a point of major interest, I will post that. Thanks.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 21 Apr 2013
by Misty
ex-l in 'Mr Kirpalani and Krishna, a strange twist' wrote: From you perspective now, Misty, does anything happen or go on at a spiritual or psychic level to BKs? What do your teachers/guides say of them?

As I said, I have contacted a healer, a professional, to work through past experiences and remnants of the interaction with BK-ism. We can work together quite well and the results are good, so far. I have only recently begun to see this healer and we agreed on a few sessions. I will tell more once I have concluded the way. Thanks.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 27 Apr 2013
by littleo
Hi Misty,
I read about your experiences in meditation and i think i have had similar experiences. I was sleeping, but my Brother was in my room, he was playing the computer. I felt as if a current of elecricity went in my back and i was not able to move. I liked to call to him to help me, but i was not able to do anything. I do not remember how it went away, but i noticed that only very little time used to have passed after i fell asleep. I don't remember if at that time i was with the BK, but when i related this story to my colleagues they were also amazed. I did not know what was it, i was thinking it is ET.

Now i think this is entering of ghost. I have also had similar experiences later and i find that they are somewhat connected with my being down, when I am weak they attack me. With time these have become less. I try to maintain the idea that if these happen, then i would be able to control them. I also sleep with dim light on.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 28 Apr 2013
by Misty
Hello littleleo. Welcome to the forum, as newcomer. I myself have not to long ago joined, so I don't know everything about the site yet. I do know that there is a lot of information avaible, but one needs to know where to find it.

I feel sorry for you being down from time to time. Five years in BK surroundings is a long time. From your profile I saw it effected you quite a lot. The good thing is that you have stepped out of that circle of mesmerize.

My personal observation is that once you have quited BK-ism one can feel bad from time to time but that is because remnants of the doctrine reside inside yourself. It takes a little courage to fight against that influence but realise that there are a lot of people out there to help you in life, one way or another, you "just" need to relate to them some way or another. And that most of it will wear off in time.

Another thing is to realise that one has been enculted. That can be a hard step to take. What makes it more difficult is that most of what is really going on at spiritual level is hard to sense and comprehend.

Reading about your experience of electricity-awareness, I don't find that very strange, as it happened to me as well. In my case it was after I had visited the center and meditated. Your description is simular to my experiences. What it is, I don't know. Only that it seems as if it is comes from outside. I hope to find out more about that as well. What I do know though, and have always evaded, untill I came to this forum, is to speak about personal spiritual experiences to others, because a lot of scepticism one can meet. Or at least be carefull you you speak about your experiences. Not everyone is able to comprehend and like what you are telling.

I myself have never experienced possession of a spirit, so I can tell you nothing about that subject. Others may help you with that issue. What I do know though, from my own experiences, is that the influences from BK-ism come back to you more vividly is you feel bad, are down etc. I don't know if it comes from outside or from within, ie. the mind having learned to thighten the strings with what was learned at the BK. It does not matter, I think, but more important is to be aware of it happening. And taking control of your own mind as well, as you mention. Remember you have passed the worst part of cultism. Better days are waiting for you. Give it time.

If I may give you an advice, I would say you consult a professional healer, like I do. They are usually better able to see what has actually happened and are able to help you. Most probably you will find out more about your period with the BK. And that healer will probably help you with fighting the influences as well. But you need to do work ourself as well. It doens't come for nothing.

Aside from that taking good care of yourself is important, as well. Phisical exercise can help a lot. Grounding exercises are good also. Try to take relaxation, find out what works for you.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 28 Apr 2013
by Misty
As there are more questions to this subject, I decided to tell my first findings about a part of the topics mentioned in the first post.

In relation to the situation described in the first post, the cutting in my back that I sensed during meditation, I can now say that the situation is described accurate. As I have told, I did contact a professional healer. She confirmed that it did indeed happen the way I described With help of this healer we were able to remove a dark, obsure object from my energy-field. It has made me feel much better, stronger. It is not symbolical.

The healer also confirmed that the suffocation matter could happen as I have told before.

The healer also told me there is no reason to doubt my experience as I sensed it at the time, concerning the cutting of my back-experience. I asked her if these BK people were working togeher with bad entities and she confirmed. She said they were going in the wrong direction and were involved in the wrong kind of things.

These are my findings so far in brief.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 28 Apr 2013
by Mr Green
We are so lucky to be out, the delusion and trickery can only get worse over time!

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 28 Apr 2013
by littleo
I’m very skeptical towards those healers. I don't know what is your experience, and I may be offending someone, but I think they are even worse than the BKs. Some souls who used to be associated with the BK became healers, started giving lectures and personal guidance, channel angels etc. I don't believe in all that stuff.

I also have a friend who likes to be a healer and maybe he has the ability, but in most cases I’m seeing the ego of that.

Generally, I would feel very embarrassed to speak about my personal matters just like that to someone.

Yes, I know there are professional therapists and they help people, but I don't think my case needs one. I think also sometimes they will make your issue bigger than it actually is. You know the saying that when you go to the doctor, you go with some problem and he finds you 100 more. The other think is accepting this attitude towards myself that I’m sick. I see it like some defeat. I must be able to manage this.

Speaking about the problem is somehow a therapy, but I have learned that to swallow the matters and never speak about it is also solution. They say that whatever we have buried in ourselves will come up with time, so let it come, I will solve it then. Because speaking and going into the problem can be also sometimes making the problem to grow. You will call it sweeping under the carpet. Maybe.

We are able to transform ourselves, our lives, to cut our tail like a lizard, to cut our past and to come completely new, regenerated, transformed, rejuvenated, renewed and healed. Yes, very often some ghost from the past haunt us, but indeed time is great healer. Whatever we have seen as problem once we see it funny later, or whatever we were thinking was loss, we see it benefit. It is true they say there is benefit in every scene of the drama, but we don't see it always. The benefit in every scene is that we learn, we move, we change, we understand something. Yes, we all like to learn the easy and painless way, but we don't always manage, but indeed we come out more experienced and more knowledgefull after all. And what is the matter if we suffer some beating.

I don’t have bad experience with doctors and I generally think people can be sympathetic and have a sincere desire to help, the matter is how far they are capable, experienced, knowledgeful and able. These are very vague matters and there is no recognized authority in the matter. If I am not able to check the qualification of someone against some commonly known and accepted knowledge and practice, how can i trust someone. Maybe I just cannot trust, but maybe it is because I don't see someone I can trust. But, yes, it will be seen with the result. If someone feels relief, it means it is good for him, but there is the possibility that one becomes dependent on help.

I think I have to have the capacity, to be able to and this is the way it should be, to manage the problem on my own, because this is my own problem. I feel it that if i speak about it with someone it will burden him. I know this way I may be very easy prey for manipulation, but maybe it is only just the way it is with me. I think I don’t have to hide in my black hole and lick my wounds and live a life in self pity. I don’t think i have done something wrong. My relatives, friends, colleagues were very worried about me, and I was seeing them as Maya, but at that time I was having the need to determine myself, to not listen to anyone and to follow my own path. Every person has to go through such stage in his life, in one or another way. If I have been right or wrong I don’t let others instill feeling of guilt in me nor do I feel this in front of myself. I try to extract the positive.

It is normal to be down and I allow myself to be down from time to time. It is so human. I think denying this in ourselves is some problem in itself. This constant struggle to be always up and fit can be very tiring. We need to rest sometimes and we need to fail, to take it easy. These days I read something about the Jews in the concentration camps, it is difficult to believe it, but it is said it has been a fact that some have tried to turn it into a joke, to look at it with sarcasm. This brings relief and freedom, one can take your life, but he cannot take your humor, he cannot take away your free and independent spirit. And they say, life shows such people manage better in life. Many times I have been wondering and again and again in one or another form I reach the same conclusion that the only sense in life is happiness.

I can understand if we are helpless and powerless and don’t know what happens with us, as if we are victim of some force. I have been doing the basic course few times with different teachers. At that time I was not understanding anything, I was mixing Baba with Drama etc. They were explaining about The Cycle of drama and I was having a headache, due to some inability to understand it. From time to time I have had some experience of deja vu.

I remember once in collective meditation, it was with closed eyes, we were making attempts to reach Paramdham and see and experience the red light, then when we opened our eyes, I saw in others also that they have experienced something. In this mediation, I saw as if everything is a game and something in me surrendered as if to a lie, I accepted something. I was bit frightened and confused, as for few hours I was feeling separate from the body, it was very strange experience, I would not say it was pleasant, rather scary, but it gives me confidence in the existence of the soul. In another meditation I have seen some point travelling, crossing some line and becoming like a star.

I have also had the experience that something is pulling me to go to class, as if I’m not going on my own, not using my own will, but like some automatic process.

I also think one problem is often one becomes overenthusiastic, he loses sleep, does seva, thinks about this, studies and he just gets finished and exhausted. Maybe it is because of this overwhelming we have in the beginning that we are finished so soon. I would not say it is manipulation, because it comes from within, it is rather something like a virus, like a disease that spreads from person to person.

I was concerned with the matter of overpopulation, pollution and so forth before the BK and still I think Destruction is to happen and I don’t think the problem is that I think like this, but that it will happen, so it is difficult to live with this, to live in such times. I don't know how to live and what to do. I find it useless to indulge in enjoying myself, and I find it equally useless to try and create something in such circumstances.

Re: The dawning of the truth

PostPosted: 29 Apr 2013
by Pink Panther
Littleo wrote: ...I saw as if ...

These are the most important few words you have written Littleleo.

The basis of all our understanding, especially of intangible things, comes down to "as if". if you explore philosophy, psychology, mysticism, even quantum physics, you come to this - what we experience we are interpreting to ourselves in terms of some "as if" - much affected by our times and culture and influences.

"Consider yourself a soul" is no less an "as if" than "consider yourself hired" or "consider yourself equal to others" or "consider yourself the upholder of the family's traditions"... etc

That is, you are being asked to think in terms of a paradigm.

The word "paradigm" almost literally means "as if". It could be translated as "see it (digma) in these other (para) terms".

As for the rest of your post - yes, I agree - you can wait for something to become a pain before you deal with it, why deal with something that may not become a pain? Not everything swept under the carpet (i.e. left in the past) will fester to erupt later. The trick is to recognise what is becoming a problem before it reaches the part where it hurts.

Like a bad relationship or a bad job that you stay in despite all the evidence, sooner or later you cannot bear it and you make a break, then you wonder why you did not do it sooner. It is wise to recognise and make the change sooner rather than later. But ego hangs on strongest.

I agree also that if you are down, nothing wrong with that in itself; it is a mental state telling you something the way tiredness tells you something. With tiredness, you either resort to coffee and other stimulants which get you through the moment only to leave your more tired, or you set up a situation where you can get really good sleep or go on a long holiday for real refreshement.

So too, there are "creative" ways to explore the depths when you are "down there" - there are passive, unproductive ways where the time just passes and nothing much has been learnt, or you go "even deeper" to see what the "down" is an inversion of (or caused by - and usually its to do with wanting something other than what is).
Every light has a shadow and every shadow its light.