Baba Milan (direct meeting with God at BKWSU HQ)

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chill

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Baba Milan (direct meeting with God at BKWSU HQ)

Post18 Mar 2013

:| :|

Hello everyone. I am a new member but I have been following the posts for a while. I recently went for Baba Milan to Madhuban. I was surprised when I found people being pushy and loud, but I ignored it for their naivety. I did not feel the presence of God Almighty before me, but then it might be again my own lack of unity with God or the impurity of my thoughts. But then someone told me that they had a vision of Baba entering Dadi Gulzar's body at an earlier Milan, and they were merely watching it on TV. I just want to know if any one on this forum has felt anything extraordinary in their BK days.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Baba Milan

Post18 Mar 2013

Yes, but ... the experience and the understanding of the experience are two different things ...
There's a discussion elsewhere here that goes into this subject deeply, I forget the topic title.

Essentially, there is a lot of "investment" of belief, wanting to view it in a particular way rather than (ironically) as a detached observer.

When any believer goes on their pilgrimage, say, to a place with holy shrine or holy water, many of them, possibly the majority, will put effort into creating a state of mind full of all their associations, memories, hopes, expectations, to create their very personal sense of holiness and spirituality. They will experience that time and place accordingly, with that consciousness. A non-believer observing may feel nothing much, or may pick up on the atmosphere created, feel a resonance, but it will be a different experience because its not filled with the "backgrounding" the believer has.
"To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour."
-- William Blake circa 1800's

It's a poetic/spiritual state of mind people can have when they know how to "look" or "see" in a certain way... Others need external triggers of certain phrases, symbols, stories to evoke that state.

ex.brahma

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Re: Baba Milan

Post18 Mar 2013

That is exactly what it is all about, a "state of mind"... So when you are there, geared -up, filled with expectations and anticipations, fully prepared and turned on ... The so called "spiritual climax" will be a natural outcome ..!!
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ex-l

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Re: Baba Milan

Post18 Mar 2013

chill wrote:I did not feel the presence of God Almighty before me ...

That's because it is not god.

The unofficial motto of the BKWSU is, "... if something is wrong or not working, it's your fault". It's not. Don't blame yourself. Madhuban has gone to the dogs and it's mostly just about the money. For most people the experience wears off, it just take some longer than others to admit.

What gets me are all those people have 'Handi Cam Yoga' instead of 'Easy Raj Yoga' ... Camera Yoga. The Murlis say "no pictures" and "don't remember the body" yet there are dozens of people fiddling about with cameras trying to capture something spiritual. Do you think they are having any experience?

Anyway, welcome onboard. Allow me to apologize in advance if I am too demanding. I expected something far more yogic or esoteric when I committed to the BKs. I found it all pretty dumbed down and mediocre.

chill

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Re: Baba Milan

Post19 Mar 2013

Sounds a lot like neuro-programming to me. Because the mind has been conditioned to a belief, it tries to look for the actual experience.

But even then, there are huge masses following BrahmaKumaris. Some as long as 20-30 years. Well-educated people. People who have shunned their own beliefs aside to believe in the existence of the Supreme Soul. I have seen those people and how they are always smiling, speak softly and are always calm. That was the major influence for me to join. Surely, no one can pretend something for most of their lives? It was as if these people have had some God-like experience which gives them some inner joy. Can people be programmed into believing something for such a long period of time? It's my guessing that once they have "the experience", people stop looking for a logic and belief takes over reasoning.

Anyways, I am just clarifying my doubts. No offense.
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ex-l

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Re: Baba Milan

Post19 Mar 2013

No offence taken, you are correct about such individuals, and such experiences. The questions then to ask are ... stepping right back ... "what it is all for, where it is going, and if you wish to entrust your life to the leadership?" The less you think and question, the happier you will be.

I agree with you, it is a strange and miraculous that such otherwise worldly-wise and intelligent individuals put aside all other thoughts, questions and doubts and become a cog in the great BK machine buying into the whole 5,000 Years Cycle and End of the World tomorrow. Especially the Westerners.

For the Sisters and mothers, I think it is a little bit of a different matter because, in most cases, what else could or would they have been doing in life? The day to day life of a surrendered BK Sister from rural India is not worse than some and is better than many ... as long as the money keeps coming in to feed them all.

I suppose for the majority it just performs some social function like the Jehovah Witnesses in the West.

But is speaking speaking softly and being calm, and submissive to the BK elite, truly the best thing in life to do?

Funnily enough, I will not say yes or no. It's up to you to decide what sort of life you want to live and create and how much you want this world "Destruction-ed" in two to three years, or believe it will be. Personally, I prefer being a bit of an individual, living my own life, doing my own good and seeing more of the world.

For me, we've caught the leadership out on too many big lies, corruption, manipulation and abuse that I can no longer believe THE Supreme Soul is behind them. A "god" ...? Perhaps, if gods or higher beings exist. An "entrancing spirit" ...? Perhaps, if entrancing spirits exist. Something a little wickedly clever and misguided ... for me, getting closer. Something weird and wonderful going on with the collective consciousness of the group. May be as well.

I just don't see the signs of a "highest on high" in the leadership which has been doing it for 50, 60, 70 years. I see Mammon.

dany

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Re: Baba Milan

Post19 Mar 2013

Is having educated people marching behind the flag of certain religion/cult, considered a true proof of the authenticity of that cult ..?!

Almost all religions and cults have, educated, wealthy and influential followers among their ranks .!

"Scientology" cult in the US have even built and dedicated exclusive centers for this category of followers, who are considered valuable potential assets, if the going ever got rough ..!!
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ex-l

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Re: Baba Milan

Post19 Mar 2013

dany wrote:Is having educated people marching behind the flag of certain religion/cult, considered a true proof of the authenticity of that cult ..?!

And one could say the same of many more cults and religions ... and they will all say exactly the same thing about their god experience; Sai Baba, the Baha'is, the Moonies and so on.

I don't know how it happens nor if it is exactly known how; and, sadly, I don't know how to flick the switch the other way either, nor if it is known.

All I can add is that human beings appear to be pre-programmed to be enculted ... but that it generally only happen once or twice in a life, e.g. one's original family-tribe, then a second conversion ... after that I think one generally sees through what is going on and is immune from it.

I've experienced other "blissful highs" from other guru types since leaving the BKs both Indian and Western. I've even had really nice collective experience at "anti-cult" meetings. There is something about being in a group which accepts has that effect ... but I always keep an open mind to the idea that there is some mystic/psychic/magically element go we don't understand. I just don't get sucked into it any more.

And in the case of the BKs, we know what the game plan is, inspiring Destruction then ruling the India and the world. I may be wrong but that is megalomania not divinity to me.

Stockholm Syndrome is the best starting point for me.

chill

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Re: Baba Milan

Post19 Mar 2013

I agree with dany and ex-I. Educated people might prove a huge asset to them. But how is it that even after 70 something years there has not been one proper media coverage or raid or anything like that. I have noticed some of the scandals mentioned on this site but then why is it not out in the open? The BKs have surely reached the UN already. But does it give them enough power to suppress the truth?

Like ex-I, I prefer to keep my mind and sensibility intact.

dany

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Re: Baba Milan

Post19 Mar 2013

I recall reading an article about the late "Sai Baba", who used to perform magical tricks in front of followers and visitors as part of his spiritual show and call them, Miracles ..!

A team of Western researchers approached him to verify the truth behind his allegations, by installing multiple cameras and speakers during his show. He was adamant in refusing, because he knew he would be exposed ..!

I think all what will take "Gulzar" to get exposed during her annual show, is a "Lie Detector", and I very much doubt if she will accept to connect to it ..!!
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ex-l

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Re: Baba Milan

Post20 Mar 2013

Personally, although I don't buy into the BKs' explanation, I accept 'something' is going on. Just what that is I cannot say and I think it is pointless to argue because we cannot know but I do not think it is just simple fraud.

You cannot take a sample of BapDada, put it in a bottle and identify it ... and we have discussed a number of possibilities of what it might be ... therefore one can only judge the projector by the projection and look at the BKs a whole.

Like prestidigitators ... I don't use the word magician because it makes it sound too attractive ... the BK use 'sleight of hand' to draw supporters and VIPs attention to the parts of the picture them want them to see. I could also say, like "con men" or "card sharps" in the street.

For many lower and middle class/educated people, what the BKs have is a dream. It's good enough for them even if its not God and they are happy just to share a small part of their kingdom.

It does not matter if it is God because it fulfils so many other needs ... big buildings, exotic retreats, ego trips, a sense of self-superiority, a life purpose, a relatively safe and non-judgemental community (the last is actually a positive one). They also share a thrill and sense of importance seeing their leaders up there on the stage meeting famous people, feeling close to the rich and the powerful.

Why else this game of having their photos taken with VIPs and sending them round all the centers? The BKs do very little real "service" of humanity in any manner, most of it is just PR.

Like the internet for others, the Brahma Kumaris provides a 'virtual world' for others to escape into ... which, of course, the BKs claim is the real world.

What are the explanations for "the meeting" ... it's God, it's a god or a higher being, it's spirit mediumship or overshadowing, it's more than one spirit, it's the ghost of an enlightened Lekhraj Kirpalani, it's Lekhraj Kirpalani's higher self, it's Gulzar's higher self, it's mass hypnosis, it's a manipulation of the collective consciousness, it's siddhi/kundalini/chakra work, it's nothing, it's a con trick.

I think it's best not to question what cannot be easily answered and look at what easily can and take the most from it.

Just ask, for example, which way does the money/energy flow and where does it go?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Baba Milan

Post20 Mar 2013

dany wrote:I recall reading an article about the late "Sai Baba", who used to perform magical tricks in front of followers and visitors as part of his spiritual show and call them, Miracles ..!

A team of Western researchers approached him to verify the truth behind his allegations,

No need for cameras. Straightforward common sense can work some of it out.

Osho (aka Bhagwan Rajneesh) - another guru who fell below his own standards - observed that, when Sai Baba was manifesting swiss watches, either
    - a) he was a fraud, because the akashic regions from where he said they came wouldn't "brand" such watches e.g. Omega, Rolex, (I think they were Rolexes), or
    - b) he was a thief, using his occult power to steal brand name watches by teleportation from somewhere !! (Osho just got his followers to get him what he wanted - no need for occult powers).
ex-l wrote : It does not matter if it is God because it fulfils so many other needs ... big buildings, exotic retreats, ego trips, a sense of self-superiority, a life purpose, a relatively safe and non-judgemental community (the last is actually a positive one)..

The ego satisfaction ('pure ego' is what its called in the Murlis) part of it doesn't quite gel with the "non-judgemental" part. It is only superficially non-judgemental.

All are nominally equal, soul Brothers under the skin, but, as we've observed elsewhere, "some are more equal than others". Numberwise. And there is much hierarchical thinking embedded in the culture, internally with zonal and local in-charges, teachers, centrewassis, seniority by years etc - all kinds of ways. But no matter where you sit, there is always someone else you are superior to ... the sublimated or implied attitude that's encouraged, to consider others as of a lower spiritual status awaiting revelation through service ("I have, they lack"), "body conscious", "impure", "Bhagat", "Shudra", "agyani", "lokik" etc etc etc. - just the word "Brahmin' is elitist.

And there are three types of Avyakt Murlis, one type of Murli always starts with "there are three types of children ..." - sometimes listing what is merely a description, but other times they are indeed rankings or worthiness, or criteria for the "rosary" mala.

chill

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Re: Baba Milan

Post20 Mar 2013

Points noted.
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ex-l

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Re: Baba Milan

Post22 Mar 2013

chill wrote:I recently went for Baba Milan to Madhuban ... I just want to know if any body on this forum has felt anything extraordinary in their BK days.

Just wanted to return the discussion back to the topic.

How did your contact describe their vision? I have heard of similar stories/reports going back a couple decades and, on the other hand, many people saying too that they never felt anything and feeling disappointed but then having a nice spiritual or psyche experience at some other time.

I have to say that I cringe when I heard people blaming themselves for no or a bad experience. From years of experience they seem to be highly random, that is to say, someone who is utterly devoted and surrendered experiences nothing and someone who is not even following the principles fully, or is about to leave, experience wonderful things.

There is one school of thought with BK circles which says those types of obvious experiences are the reward of religious efforts in previous lives and of no value, that 'making efforts' is what counts. This too seems a bit disheartening and a bit of a put down ... a bit too Protestant.

In the old days, up until the early 80s, you used to get one on one meetings with Gulzar/BapDada. Then it went to small groups. Now I hear is 'regiments' at a time and they are going for quantity rather than quality. I feel sorry for people joining the BKWSU these days if that is the best experience they get but guess it is not going to get better.

I wonder if they will just ditch the show when Gulzar dies? We heard at one point they were training up other younger mediums but never heard anything more about that.

What is the latest on that?

mail2sundareee

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Re: Baba Milan

Post22 Mar 2013

Chill wrote: I was surprised when I found people being pushy and loud, but I ignored it for their naivety. I did not feel the presence of God Almighty before me, but then it might be again my own lack of unity with God or the impurity of my thoughts.

On reading this, I remember Amway scam. In Amway scam, the people who don't earn (cheat others) are termed as losers. Similarly in BK group/organization, if you do not feel the presence of BK God it means - the problem is with you and not with the system (defined by BK). I am wondering how they (BKs, especially Seniors) are living in such a worst way throughout their life by cheating others.
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