Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

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Abhinav

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Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post20 May 2013

Om Shanti

I am listening to awakening with BK (by BK Shivani) since the last four months. These videos are great and have influenced my way of thinking a lot. But I have one problem. Everytime they say to get control over the five vikaars i.e. kaam, krodha, moh, lobh, ahankaar.

The most difficult part for me is to get control over Kaam vikaar. The main thing is that I am only 21 years old. I am a student and I am unmarried. If I manage to get control over Kaam Vikaar then who will marry me. Getting control over other four vikaars is relatively easy. What would be my expectations with my life if I stop masturb**ing?.

The others things like doing meditation, connection with God Shiva etc.. appears to be OK but not the above mentioned thing.

Please help because it hurts me everytime I fall in to the Kaam Vikaar making me feel the I am disobeying your spiritual knowledge.
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ex-l

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Re: Is getting control over KAAM Vikaar essential?

Post20 May 2013

The simple answer is ... don't get involved with the Brahma Kumaris. They're crazy, and now proven to be deeply dishonest, manipulative and hypocritical.

The TV programme with Shivani is just a marketing device. It's fake. It's merely a sales pitch. Spend a little time reading up on this website to find out what the BKs are really all about before allow them into your mind.

The BKs are an 'End of the World' cult. Since the 1930s, they have been encouraging young people like yourself to throwaway their lives and destroy their opportunities because they believe all of the world, except for themselves, is going to be destroyed ... annihilated by nuclear bombs etc ... and then they alone are going to rule India and inherit a heaven on earth for 2,500 years. Oh, and they believe God is possessing an old lady in Rajasthan and speaking wisdom through her.

The problem is, their god spirit has made many predictions of the End of the World and other events or aspects and they have all failed ... and the BKs hide this from newcomers like yourself so they can grab your mind, body and wealth.

If you seek "spiritual wisdom", or living skills, find it from the same sources that the BK leaders have taken theirs from. 99% of the good stuff within the BKWSU, and most of the bad stuff, is borrowed or stolen from elsewhere; everywhere from other religious to New Age and business gurus.

Please don't be conned by them. Don't be concerned with what they teach. Live your own life naturally and find your own path. It's a con. Even the name of Shiva they have stolen, applied it to their own god spirit and made up a false story about how it came about. It's not Shiva as you understanding it.
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ex-l

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post20 May 2013

Abhinav wrote:I am a student and I am unmarried. If I manage to get control over Kaam Vikaar then who will marry me. Getting control over other four vikaars is relatively easy. What would be my expectations with my life if I stop masturb**ing?

The BKs don't tell you this until you have been hooked like a fish and they have reeled you in ... but they have a whole other life laid out for you as an emasculated servant for them. Having a wife and family distracts you for spending your life and money on them and so they are against those too.

If you become a BK, you will be expected to be completely celibate for the rest of your life.
    Do you really believe in "the spiritual path"? What is it you are really looking for? The BKs don't teach "the spiritual path, they teach 'the BK path'. The two are not the same thing.
For your own sake, quite separate from any hypothetical "spiritual path", it's best not to get into habit of masturbating. The reasons for this I am proposing are not "spiritual" but purely practical and for your own benefit. In my opinion, it is too easy and it encourages habitual self-gratification behaviour. Beyond a certain point, it will decrease the quality of your experiences, both giving and receiving, when you come to have a sexual partner.

For the sake of the quality of your own experience, both giving and receiving, you want to learn how to delay your self-gratification ... in short, the orgasm ... and avoid orgasm addiction.

Just what benefit the BKs' "spiritual path" has no one really knows at this point. After 70 years it has not made them honest or pure. The only obvious answer we can see is that it has made them quite rich and powerful.

Therefore, find yourself a nice partner to explore and experiment with and practise safe sex. Just say no to masturbation unless you can find someone else to do it for you, and you for them ... and then swop favours. Learn how to give others pleasure, not yourself, and always allow ladies to go first.

The 'Vikars' are thought to be obstructive in the pursuit of the spiritual path. They are:
    - Kama (Lust)
    - Krodh (Rage or uncontrolled anger)
    - Lobh (Greed)
    - Moh (Attachment or emotional attachment) and
    - Ahankar (ego)

BK_Victim

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post21 May 2013

Abhinav,

I have BK in family. He is also a recruiter. He goes after people like you and recruits them. He was also trapped into BK by other BKs. He is practicing BK for more than a decade and half. What keeps him trapped is, praising by fellow BKs. He commits time and property to them and they praise him. He loves this symbiotic relationship. He treats own family as enemies and BKs as own family. He lied to me count less of times, he shows anger (Krodh) to me numerous times. He forwards me good sayings and quotes to me even now every day, but practices none (Obviously he thinks he is practicing them in his virtual world). He blackmails me every day and threatens me everyday that if I do not accept his demands of donations to his organization, he will do it more of these things. He made me invest my whole life savings for his own shelter (which I am OK with) and now using that shelter (against my will/wish) for recruiting people like you into BK Org. All other BKs around him and his high command are supporting him to fight with me. Is that what Ramayan says? Where Lakshman fights against Rama for property share?

I have my own plans to help the society, where I want to extend help for those who deserve. I want to help those who have no means to have happy, healthy and productive life. Those who do not have a means to reach the best what they can be in their life. Those who are struggling in pain for hunger or malnutrition, or lack of basic education. I want my BK family member to help in this regards (I call this a TRUE Service). But as per his version of service: Service is sheltering and feeding the fellow BKs who praise him.

World has more knowledge and in depth knowledge about every thing. With little effort it is very easy to pursue it. BK Org has fake, stolen, tweaked knowledge (Gyan).

Use common sense. BK Org is just a cult organization. They have just stolen different ideas, practices etc from different sources and tweaked a bit and labelled them as their practice.

I have only 3 advises to give you.
    1. Use COMMON Sense.
    2. Use COMMON Sense.
    3. Use COMMON Sense.
Do not destroy your and your family people's life.

bkdeepaknegi

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post22 May 2013

If you know the ABC of spirituality and experience of god then purity is must u have to become pure and for that u have to make your food very pure as old saying jaisa aan vaisa mann so purity is must for every spiritual knowledge and for study so must follow celibacy and enjoy life with god
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ex-l

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post22 May 2013

bkdeepaknegi wrote:If you know the ABC of spirituality and experience of god then ...

Whose "spirituality"?

As you are a BK, we have to translate 'BKspeak' into plain and honest English for Abhinav.

Define "spirituality" ... it is a word the BKs use vaguely to the public but, privately, mean their own religion.
    Were Krishna and Mohammed not "spiritual", and did they not have many wives or lovers?
    Are Sikhs and Orthodox Christian priests not "spiritual", and do they not have to marry?
    What about real caste born Brahmins, do they not marry and are they not "spiritual"?
I could give you many examples which contradict you ... but then, let's be honest Deepak, you don't mean "spiritual" you mean BK ... and you don't mean "God", you mean the god spirit of the BKs.

Then we have to look at the evidence of the BKWSU ...

BK leaders have been being (mostly) celibate for 70 or more years.
    Has it made them honest? No.
    Has it made them even lawful? In many cases, no.
    Has it stopped their ego or material interests? Not really, they're gurus increasing fly business class and they are collective luxury properties all around the world.

Abhinav,

A brief background. Initially the BKWSU was a private organization largely paid for by an extremely rich Sindi businessman who believed he was Krishna in Hyderabad and Karachi. Initially, despite being married, he lived quite a sensual life surrounded by many rich and attractive young women who he called his "gopis". And who believed the world was going to end during WWII. It did ... he then believed it was going to end in 1950. It did not ... and then all his money ran out.

The community slimmed down, many left, it was kept afloat by female supporter of his ... and then that money supply ran out.

What happened next? They turned private community into a religion and started appealing to the Sindi diaspora and Hindi communities for donations which they started to live off.

In the 1930s his sensual lifestyle, which targeted the young girls and young wives of men in his bhaibund, had caused a lot of problems and the wider influence of the Bhaibund community, and legal action, had caused them to have to live a more chaste life, men and women separated.

When they turned their lifestyle into a religion which took donations, they have to take on the appearances of Hindu holy men, e.g. from the sanyasis, who they criticized strong, they adopted celibacy, and they became like gurus. They don't like to be called gurus, they called themselves "Dadis, Dadas and Didis" but, essentially, they operate the same. Increasingly since that time they have expanded their business-religion into the Hindu market taking over roles which were previously held by saddhus or sanyasis and calling themselves "Brahmins". In order to call themselves Brahmins they had to act more like them.

Their ambition is to rule India and they now have many "satellite centres" (my term) overseas which bring in even more donations. In fact, their ambition is to rule the world. They say their god spirit has predicted they will rule the world for 2,500 years. They seek to conquer it, "three square feet at a time".

What doest that mean? It means 'person by person' ... "three square feet at a time" is the space required for someone to do their meditation.

Therefore, they have developed a technique by which gradually encult or enslave individuals ... "mind, body and wealth" ... into the religion, controlling every aspect of their life and excluding any other positive influence from outside of the cult. One of the ways they do this is by disallowing individuals from getting married and having children, having sex ... or even eating the same food cooked by outsiders.
    When BK Deepack says, "study", they mean 'study Brahma Kumarism'.
    BK Deepack says, "God", they mean the BKs' god spirit ... not 'God' as you understand it.
    When BK Deepack says, "spirituality", they really mean 'Brahma Kumarism' ... not 'religion' or 'spirituality' as you understand it.
Whatever you chose to do in your life ... be very careful with the Brahma Kumaris. They use words and ideas they have stolen from Hinduism and elsewhere very sweetly, and sound very sincere, but everything say has a double meaning which is often hidden from you. If you have any doubts, please allow us to translate.

I can sum up Brahma Kumarism in three words ... "man, tan and dhan (mind, body or labor and wealthy)". That is ... "your 'man, tan and dhan' in their pocket, bank account or control".

Everything else is just a sales pitch or the trap to catch them. They don't even want you, they just want your mind, your free labour, and your wealthy or property. They won't look after you when you get old or sick like a family would and so you decide your own path in life.

Abhinav

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post24 May 2013

I am Abhinav. I am not a BK. I am a student
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Mr Green

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post24 May 2013

Please go and study something worthwhile, like medicine.

raistlin

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post24 May 2013

Abhinav, forget about all of the Sister Shivani "you have to get control over ..." the stuff. You are just 21. Please, enjoy your life. If you are a mentally healthy person, you don't have to force yourself to control anything. It all comes naturally out of your mind and heart. You just know how to behave/how to not behave.

The problem is that, for BKs, anything that is related to the sexuality and/or body is vice or great sin. Even physical love and affection is called by them "the sexual lust" or "sword of lust", or even "the ocean of poison". Really nice, is not? As for masturbation, in my opinion it is quite normal reaction when you don't have a regular sexual life - it is the way when you can get rid of the sexual tension in safe manner. So, just as ex-I said, find a nice partner, enjoy your life and be happy.

Don't let the BKs destroy your life and turn it into hell (they are able to use against you your slightest fear, your every worry, your every weakness, and believe me they will do this for sure).

littleo

Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post26 May 2013

I think it would be way too easy to just wash away everything with the wave that everything coming from the BK is wrong. I still believe that the practice of purity is very much needed in our today’s world that becomes more and more morally degraded and this is some way to create virtuosity in the person and so prosperity in society.

The idea about conquering lust has not been developed by the BK, it is ancient. Although BK may have or not have the correct method and practice to achieve that, but people are attracted to this. They know very well the other practice and one does not need to go to any institution to learn this.

I think every seeker who has the noble aim to have his vices under his control is worthy of respect and his effort is an effort in good direction, no matter what method he uses and what results he achieves, the intention itself is a good start.

To say to someone to leave that is really not addressing the matter, because people ask how to achieve that and not how to not achieve that or how to achieve something else. Although the BK practice may be wrong, but everyone knows to some extent it has helped him in the direction of managing his vices. I know from my own experience that to be victim of your own vice is not at all a good experience. It feels like to be dependent, without will and unable to do anything about the matter. Sometimes it seems someone just needs some help and encouragement in that direction to be able to overcome something inside himself and not in the opposite direction.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post27 May 2013

Littleo

The problem with that way of thinking (celibacy=purity) is that it evaluates non-celibates as impure. I have a real problem with the notion of purity, always did, even as a BK. Celibacy implied "purity" but many celibates can be pure ratbags and miserable people. Before the internet, one contributor here once asked the excellent question in a class, "Are you being pure or are you frigid? You have to ask yourself that".

In itself, sexual abstinence is nothing. There was much discussion back then about whether celibacy by itself was "pure", or a means to an end. The latter idea, a means to an end, seemed intellectually more acceptable for most westerners, but the "purity" value judgement was always there and always undermined it, as it was full of potential to classify people into superior and inferior, ideal for a caste based religion (however those castes are determined).

Interestingly, in Yoga tantra, celibacy is advised for the lower tantras but sexual activity can be an important part of the higher tantra. That is, sex & abstinence are both considered as a means, either may lead to the goal or away from it. Therefore appropriateness becomes the touchstone.

OK. A quick double check in the dictionary confirms what i thought. Kaam Vikaar ( काम विकार ) does not mean the act of sexual intercourse. The words for sexual intercourse are varied (maithuna, bakavasa, rahas, rata etc - hmm maithuna may have a common root ;) to the English word "mate").
    Kaam is more "lust" i.e. the desire aspect rather than the act itself,
    Vikaar seems to be an value quality, 'degraded" decayed" and "disordered".
So, getting control over kaam vikaar may be beneficial (essential could be too strong a word) if one's attitude to sex is a decadent unmanageable desire that affects one's well-being. Temporary abstinence may then be one good experiment, maybe even a permanent remedy for those who, like an avowed alcoholic must abstain from alcohol, so too a sexaholic must abstain from sex.

But if what is usually a quite manageable, natural desire became a problem because of abstinence invoked by parental or religious repression, suppression, twisted values from culture or education, or distorted self-identity, then surely unpacking it from those associations is more beneficial? Experiencing the reality, seeing it for what it is, the way an overeater or anorexic learns to put food into perspective, or a fearful child learns that the shadows in the dark are really ordinary things which their imagination is projecting onto.

littleo

Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post27 May 2013

I can see how external following of some discipline can lead to rigidity. One can have feeling of superiority if he does not have a realistic image of himself, because if one looks inside he sees he is impure himself, "all are impure says the Murli", there are no one who are pure.

I've always seen purity as matter of the mind, if the mind is influenced by vice. The problem arises if vice affects your thinking in such a way that it twists the common sense and one prefers doing without thinking. If one is compelled to do something ignoring the consequences this is an act of ignorance. But I would speculate that the common trait and whatever is accepted as normal today is the philosophy of enjoy yourself and don't think too much about the future. The way vice brings sorrow is through not thinking too much of the consequences. Of course you can take into account the undesired children, the spoilt relationships, the relationships built only on the idea of pleasure etc. With promotion of lust every other disaster follows. Pornography, violence ...

The idea about purity within the family and not out of the family seems right to me, but it is naturally linked with limiting of impurity within the family. It is said that if one has to become impure let him become impure with one. In today's world it is difficult to trace the borders of the family in the promiscuity. Hardy people gather with some high idea about what a family should be and often family is just result of most basic attraction.
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ex-l

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Re: Is getting control over Kaam Vikaar essential?

Post27 May 2013

Pink Panther wrote:Temporary abstinence may then be one good experiment, maybe even a permanent remedy for those who, like an avowed alcoholic must abstain from alcohol, so too a sexaholic must abstain from sex.

But if what is usually a quite manageable, natural desire became a problem because of abstinence invoked by parental or religious repression, suppression, twisted values from culture or education, or distorted self-identity, then surely unpacking it from those associations is more beneficial? Experiencing the reality, seeing it for what it is, the way an overeater or anorexic learns to put food into perspective, or a fearful child learns that the shadows in the dark are really ordinary things which their imagination is projecting onto.

I appreciate these views and was going to say as much.

To paraphrase it ... for some people, at certain times in their life, to have sex and thereby to get over phobias about it, is the actually best thing they can do ... and they should be supported and encouraged to do so. A true spiritual guide would recognise this ... and the Brahma Kumaris are not true spiritual guides. They are largely deluded egotists living out a fantasy world based on repercussions of events 75 years ago in the Sind ... in particular repercussions from society against their own guru's sensual indulgences with young women in his cult.

So much of BKism is based on Lekhraj Kirpalani's loopy ideas, e.g. marriage and the cinema. Lekhraj Kirpalani went to see a romantic Bollywood movie and then decided to get married. He appeared to regret it at a later date and so when he became a guru be banned watching movies because they led to "sin"! Then the BKs turned that into a universal religion for all followers in all nations for all time!

Going back to the original poster, what exactly is your problem and what it is you want to achieve?

Personally, I think the BKs use the idea of "suppressing lust" in order to control their followers ... that is all. They have chosen something very difficult to do ... to suppress one's libido (driving force of life) ... because it will be with you for most of your life in order to exploit your "failure" in controlling it.

Do they manage to do so? Who knows ... it's hard to get an honest answer out of them.

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