Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
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dany

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Re: BKWSU (Poland) - Are they really "not a religion"?

Post27 May 2013

Littleo wrote in his "profile":
Littleo wrote:I was in BK for 5 years. It changed my life drastically. It influenced my love life, family and study. Now that I am not there anymore, i wonder if I will be able to live a normal life again.

Your replies in this forum confused me. I do understand your situation and the struggle you are going through to find a new life after BK "drastic experience". I know it is not an easy task. However, I believe you should approach this forum in a different manner, and try to seek help and assistance from other forum members, who have been through BK exiting experience ..!!
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ex-l

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Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post27 May 2013

to littleo, dany wrote:Your replies in this forum confused me. I do understand your situation and the struggle you are going through to find a new life after BK "drastic experience".

I am sorry but I have to ask again if you, Littleo ... are you the same user Andre and have come back again (because you have a very similar style to his)?

If so, Littleo/Andre's story is a little different.
ex-l wrote:Are you here merely to defend the BKs with your opinions (manmat), add to our understanding or are you trying to get BKism out of your head?
littleo wrote:To defend.

Why would one defend where one had a "drastic experience"? Either something is not right here, or you appear to be a little unsure of which path in life you want to take.

What do you mean by "not there anymore" ... are you in or out of the BKWSU or AIVV? Do you want out or back in?

To be honest ... if anyone is going to defend the BKs and the BKWSU here they are going to have to use very, very good arguments and high standard of logic etc to do so; and their arguments are going to have to be congruent with the BK philosophy.

The philosophy of the BKs and their god spirits is so highly critical of other religions, philosophy and simple disciplines such as logic ... that they have no ground to them lean on those other paths, or the "old, impure world", to use them as an excuse.
littleo wrote:This is exactly the critic that how can one use manipulation and deceiving in achieveing a noble aim. I think that as long as the world is such that manipulation and deceiving have to be used, these have to be used. If they stop using these, the world will be finished.

You cannot come on and basically say, "It's perfectly OK for the BKs to be corrupt, 'manipulate and deceive' if it is useful for them because the rest of the world does it too". What a terrible idea.

Of course, if you are Andre, and you are still a PBK, it's understandable why you might half-heartedly defend the BKs ... it's over to you now.

littleo

Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post27 May 2013

Your replies in this forum confused me. I do understand your situation and the struggle you are going through to find a new life after BK "drastic experience". I know it is not an easy task. However, I believe you should approach this forum in a different manner, and try to seek help and assistance from other forum members, who have been through BK exiting experience ..!!

I am PBK. Whatever I have stated is true, but I am on the other side of the road, belonging to the same end of the world cult. I feel it is useful for BKs or PBKs to discuss here, this way both parties will see the devil is not that black.

dany

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post27 May 2013

I recall ex-l stating in this forum that one of the main things BK cult teaches its followers is how to ... LIE, to get around things in a "curvy" and sneaky manner, which is proving to be very true, time after time ..!!

littleo

Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post27 May 2013

It is good you have found your teacher.
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ex-l

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post27 May 2013

How typical ...

A BK/PBK joins the forum to defend the BKWSU dishonestly representing itself ... after having dishonestly represented themselves as they joined.
    At least we have to admit that they are consistent!
Andre is a special case in fairly unique circumstances. Even I would dislike to blame the BKs/PBKs for all of his ideas.

littleo

Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post27 May 2013

You can see it as irony and sarcasm, that one can join only if he is in the crying mode. I am not making fun of people's sorrow, many stories and cases of sorrow are there and I relate to this, but of course I cannot relate to this since I am a deluded and emotionless zombie as such, so I cannot join as myself. Of course, if the atmosphere feeds on sorrow I can also add my own bits to it.
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ex-l

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Re: Littleo and defending the BKWSU

Post27 May 2013

Littleo,

the BKs have now, copying us again, created a forum for PBKs and other splinter groups at their semi-official discussion forum, here. I suggest that if you want to discuss your opinion of the BK and PBK philosophy you could try doing so here.

Here we have quite a specific remit. It's to support individuals who want to leave the Brahma Kumaris, have left the Brahma Kumaris, or whose friends and family are currently being enculted by the Brahma Kumaris and are having problems with them.

In addition, we support evidence based discussions which accurately document and expose the history and developments of the BKWSU.

I am sorry but this is not somewhere to discuss abstract thoughts about BKism and to share your "churning" on The Knowledge. If you want to do so, try the BKs, as they appear to be more open now, or start your own blog.

I am also sorry to say that I think you also fail to meet our standards as far as your arguments in defence of Brahma Kumarism because of your habit of misrepresenting yourself and other people's arguments and ... as you have already admitted ... you consider deceiving and manipulating is acceptable.

We do not ... and I am tired of that level of discussion.

My advice to you would be, you're obviously an intelligent man ... go off and get a proper education. Invest your mind in understanding something worth understanding that does not involved and encourage deception and manipulation. Or if you *must* invest yourself in BKism ... go off and argue with the BKs to change them.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post28 May 2013

Some of this is a little unfair.

Anonymity is the norm here, so that should not be an issue. From the posts it was obvious he was sympathetic to the BKs/PBKs.

Having a devil's advocate here to show that he is "not that black" but comes in 50 shades of grey, and to occasionally articulate questions which some readers may themselves have, allows further responses to then address and clarify, especially for people trying to work out what this slippery fish of an organisation actually is.

e.g. When someone can say "deception is excusable*" it's a challenge to readers; and any debate on that helps respondents and readers explore that statement in a context (particularly in the face of ex-l's oft-repeated dictum here, that "the Age of Truth cannot be built on lies").

* The deception referred to is in another topic about the BKs in Poland who contradictorily claim;

a) to be a religion thereby gaining tax exemption but at the same time publicly claiming
b) they are not a religion where newcomers are concerned (as in "you don't have to leave your religion")


To hear a supporter weasel their way around arguments over such a glaring contradiction and excusing it is, to me, a more convincing proof than just accusations that purposeful deception happens. It is an admission of it, and reveals some of their "rationalising" behind it.
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ex-l

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post28 May 2013

Actually, the anonymity question is not the issue here ... the issue was giving the individual an opportunity to demonstrate that they were willing to be honest and sincere, or not. They chose not to and to ignore the question.

"Littleo" represented themselves dishonestly or manipulatively when they joined as an "ex-BK" and then went on to excuse the Brahma Kumaris for their dishonesty or manipulativeness, not just sanctioning it but portraying it as reasonable and a necessity.

That's 'three strikes' against already ... but we'll give him one back and a last chance for being honest that he joined to defend the BKWSU.

I resent having my time wasted by anyone not being easily honest and straightforward.

When exiting, ex-BKs or non-BK individuals come here lost, trying to find their bearings in or out of the jungle of BKism, looking for simple truths about the BKWSU, it's not good to have individuals pretending to be what they are not willing to practise or excuse dishonesty, manipulativeness and to deliberately mislead others.

The individual in question has a history and their own special circumstances.

Our purpose here is clear, it's to get people out or protect them from the BKWSU. We're not a virtual BKWSU for eccentric BKs or PBKs who have no local centre, or have been banished from their local centres. We do not offer a pulpit to anyone to promote BK/PBKism.

We depend on people giving sincerely and aspiring collectively to a more objective understanding.

littleo

Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post28 May 2013

It is dishonest that the site is named brahmakumaris.
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ex-l

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post29 May 2013

This site is not named "brahmakumaris" ... it is named "Brahma Kumaris Info".

That's perfectly honest enough. As decided by a court, we give people information about the Brahma Kumaris.

We give people far more accurate information about the Brahma Kumaris, include more original Murli teachings, than the Brahma Kumaris own website. We are even *making* the Brahma Kumaris have to be more honest and informative about themselves ... because we are. Where is the problem?

Andre ... what are you doing here? If you want to make this site more honest by doing some work contributing to it (I mean in terms of documenting and uploading original information), then please let me know.

There is plenty of work to do starting with collecting and typing up Murlis and other documents.

You know what this website is for. Just as with the AIVV, you signed the agreement on the way in. Have you come here because you want to exit BKism? Are you willing to do some work/seva, or are you just here to get in my way and throw rotten food at us?
affinity to the BKWSU: *

This a support forum for ex-BKs, exiting-BKs and the friends and family of BKs only. If you are an active BK or PBK follower, please rejoin at; http://www.bk-pbk.info.

short description of interest in joining forum: *

In order to stop false registrations you must enter a comment here. Why did you leave, or what is making you want to leave the BKWSU?

ethics: *

Do you accept to be bound by the Code of Ethicsʔ

littleo

Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post30 May 2013

Everything in my account is true, except the name. I have left the BK and the experiences I have depicted are true. Yes, it is mentioned that if you are a BK/PBK it is advised you post on that forum, but I thought it is not mandatory. If it is possible to chek yourself as BK of PBK it means these are expected, or is it only something that is left from the old software.

I don't have some special agenda. If someone is emotionally disturbed and wants to leave I can help to my best, as far as i can, with support and in direction the person wishes, I would not say a person, wishing to leave, he has to stay. And I am definitely not here to propaganda. If I can voce my opinion as I think, in the way I think, it seems quite enough for me.

If I am defending the BK it is only for your benefit, because every matter has to be seen by both sides for one to form a balanced approach. It will be better for the BKs if the critic is well intentioned and balanced, this way it may be taken, otherwise, now this site has the popularity of being anti with the BKs, even if something valuable is said, it is ignored, because it comes from here. It is the same when everything from the BK is condemned just because it is from the BK.

I think every matter has to be taken for itself, without prejudice when examined. Our opinion can change, our points of view can change, when we come to know something, this is supposed to actualize, to change our preceptions, we are not fixed, we constantly change, our position changes, and we don't represent anyone else, but ourselves and our oppinion as for the moment.
You know what this website is for. Just as with the AIVV, you signed the agreement on the way in. Have you come here because you want to exit BKism? Are you willing to do some work/seva, or are you just here to get in my way and throw rotten food at us?

There is a software than can read the text of the pdf file, you don't have to type it. Have you seen that on the bk-pbk.info there are published daily Murlis in English and Hindi and there are also older Murlis. Many people have come here with such request. If you give me a list of their mails, they had provided along with their request, I can send them daily Murli.

BK_Victim

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post30 May 2013

If you give me a list of their mails,


littleo,

You have been with BKWSU for many years. Can you give a complete list of all BK's email ids? I guess you should have at least hundreds or thousands of BK's email ids. I want to circulate information to all BK's as to how they ruined my life and caused a death in my family and trapped my family member and how they lied to us and how hungry they are after our properties.

Will you?

Bk_Victim.
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post30 May 2013

Perhaps you could tell us who they caused a death and more of your story, BK_Victim?

Littleo, I think you had better briefly introduce yourself, your involvement with the BKs, your experience and where you stand now ... in straightforward, plain English.
littleo wrote:There is a software than can read the text of the pdf file, you don't have to type it ... Many people have come here with such request. If you give me a list of their mails, they had provided along with their request, I can send them daily Murli.

That would be great ... OCR software never does a 100% job and so scans still need to be copyedited afterwards but, you are right, it would lessens the load.

The advantage of having all the Murlis in 'text only' form is that they can be then put into a searchable databases, which has always been my hope/aim. They are also small files to send. The BKs use of locked PDFs is criminal.

I don't know if I can give you all of the email, as most of them are private and I have no permission to do so, but I think I could set up a public mailing list with them, especially for such a service, if you are interested?

Please let me know. I would be happy to do so.
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