Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

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Misty

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

Murli's can be found on http://www.BapDada.info ; easy to copy and paste
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Pink Panther

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

When he is not playing devil's advocate, I believe Littleleo would be willing to do as he says and assist someone who is wanting out of the BKs. But would he be able to? Everyone believes themselves to be reasonable, until an incident brings out instincts and loyalties.

I wonder Littleleo, which kinds of people would you say are best suited to BKs and which are making a mistake by getting involved? Who should leave, and when? How should they consider that leaving? As lower status 'souls" who are accepting their position in the "rosary", or in some other way?

Do you think the official organisations (BK and PBK) do anything to identify such people and assist the process of "moving on", so they can live a better life? Or are they more concerned with keeping as many on as possible (except troublesome types) and pushing their own barrows?
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littleo

PBK

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

Your question is by all means valid, Pinko (please, indicate if the familiarity is felt offending ), and I think no one here is formally entitled to soul-counselling. I am not very much convinced in my own abilities, but as you have pointed our the intention also has its role, and even if I just keep silent when others, more experienced people are doing their job, it is also some form of silent participation.

I would say, all the way a person involved in BK/PBK has to have the feeling that at each step he is making a conscious choice to follow, and not through some pressure or habit and that every moment he is free to leave without any further harm involved. If there is some feeling of guilt in the person i think he is not ready. For me, he should be able to name clearly his reasons and be happy to leave. Anyway is some feeling of guilts is imposed on him through others i think he needs protection.
ex-l wrote:That would be great ... OCR software never does a 100% job and so scans still need to be copyedited afterwards but, you are right, it would lessens the load. The advantage of having all the Murlis in 'text only' form is that they can be then put into a searchable databases, which has always been my hope/aim. They are also small files to send. The BKs use of locked PDFs is criminal.

I don't know if I can give you all of the email, as most of them are private and I have no permission to do so, but I think I could set up a public mailing list with them, especially for such a service, if you are interested? Please let me know. I would be happy to do so.

Yes, you always have to check, but if the reading is done of text pdf it reads pretty well, with very few, or even without mistakes. It makes much more mistakes when it reads a scanned pdf, but it still reads it. I don't know if and how these work with Hindi.

I think it is fair that emails are not passed, but if people give permission they can be even passed. What do you mean by public mailing list BTW? I don't understand. If it will make the emails public then I think it would not be fair. There is nothing wrong in keeping things private. We are not doing something wrong, but even if we do something good, we would spoil it by showing off.
Bk_Victim wrote:You have been with BKWSU for many years. Can you give a complete list of all BK's email ids? I guess you should have at least hundreds or thousands of BK's email ids. I want to circulate information to all BK's as to how they ruined my life and caused a death in my family and trapped my family member and how they lied to us and how hungry they are after our properties.

Will you? Bk_Victim.

You are challenging me to show that I would not give these. Why not? I could even send your letter myself. I could state that this is one former BK's letter he has something to say, this way they will more likely read it and pay attention to it, otherwise it could be considered as spam. Even with permission I could give you the emails, or even without permission. If the information is factual it will be eye opener. But how can I have hundreds of thousands of emails?

I have taken BK emails from a list of all centers worldwide. These are also available on the BK site. I think they will not be more than 200. Even if I prepare a mailing list of non-BK people and friends of friends it will hardly be of few hundreds. I have few friends in BK, these are not much more than 5 people, but anyway I don't think greater numbers bring greater result. Even a single person, if he is the right one, makes a lot of difference. Then if everyone passes on the word, everyone has his own list of aquaintances, the word spreads. A single person cannot do everything.
Murlis can be found on http://www.BapDada.info ; easy to copy and paste

This is a new site I did not know. This is something. They are publishing the Avyakt Murlis on youtube and also on written now. But the Sakar Murlis they only publish the question and answer, essence, blessing, slogan, that are all additions.

Raistlin has suggested they don't do so because if one compares the Murlis with older versions he could see them edited. It sounds very reasonable. My guess is ego. Once you have issued an ordinance, although you may later find it is not appropriate you have to insist on it, because your authority will be compromised. I anyway think that it has started as security measure, something like shrendering the trash, that has been mentioned.
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littleo

PBK

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

Littleo, I think you had better briefly introduce yourself, your involvement with the BKs, your experience and where you stand now ... in straightforward, plain English.

Let me do this at my own pace, this may also come with time when I relax myself and it comes spontaneously and naturally then, but let me keep my anonymity now and, please, don't encourage me further.
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

littleo wrote:What do you mean by public mailing list BTW? I don't understand.

A proper, online, software emailing list that deals with memberships, subscriptions, automatic de-subscription etc (It need to according to the best laws applying to the internet, otherwise it would be just spam.

I am happy to help set up such a email list from this domain, bk-pbk.info or elsewhere, if you want to start your domain and upload the emails we have to start it off.

I think we might have about 1,500 or more by now. I am sure that if you do start circulating daily Murlis you will pick up more quickly.
Misty wrote:Murli's can be found on http://www.BapDada.info ; easy to copy and paste

That is obviously a Howiemac project and independent from the BKWSU. He used to and sometimes still does post here.

Can anyone confirm if these are complete, "official" and up-to-date Avyakt Murlis as distributed by the BKWSU?
Pink Panther wrote:When he is not playing devil's advocate, I believe Littleleo would be willing to do as he says and assist someone who is wanting out of the BKs. But would he be able to?

You ask very good questions of him. I hope he answers them.

However, I would not be comfortable with the PBKs using this forum for recruiting or encouraging exiting individuals to stay or go back. There are some PBKs who I do trust to be truly impartial and collaborate at our level of standards (e.g. objective documentation. Unfortunately, I think Littleo started off from a bad position).
littleo wrote:... please, don't encourage me further.

That really depends on your conduct.

Unfortunately, I think you started off on a less than honest footing. A half-truth is a half-lie.

You don't have to tell us everything about you but I think at the very least you have to admit that you are/were a PBK ... or, say, an independent PBK ... and clarify what degree of faith you have in the BK/PBK Knowledge or relationship you have with the organizations. Now.

Are you still 'in' ... are you heading 'out' ... which way are you going with it all?
    (... and, please,

    • in English it is 'no one', not "noone"
    • spellcheck your posts before posting them
    • use capitals where they are due, e.g. for i and proper nouns


    These are 'non-negotiable' requirements of you posting here).
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littleo

PBK

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

A proper, online, software emailing list ...

Please, enlighten me! Online, software email list, memberships, subscriptions etc., all of these sound like some new language to me.
That really depends on your conduct.

It would be hard for me to constantly feel my conduct is under inspection. I will act as i find fit, decisions i will leave to you.
• in English it is 'no one', not "noone"

You mean the inverted commas are single and not double, but the spell check does not find these, but is it possible to also have spell check here on the posting, there is on other forums.

The matter about the site name was that now the BKs say that people arrive here because of the name, which is true. Indeed there is information about BK here, but we know that .org, .net, info or other abbreviations can be used without some meaning, for example you can use an extension of a country without something in common with the country. Is that right?

No doubt the name brahmakumaris has to be there in the name, because it is related to the brahmakumaris, but if it is for example xbrahmakumaris, the BKs will have no say, no complain and it will be seen that the site has popularity not because of the name, but because of the content.
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ex-l

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

Yes, and .info has a meaning too. It means 'information about'. Brahma Kumaris is not a trademark. It is not owned by anyone.

If anyone wanted to start a newspaper called, "The Christian Times" anyone could do so, could they not? Why cannot someone start a website about the Brahma Kumaris? They are just a minor cult not a corporation. "Brahma Kumaris" is not a trademarked product and I certainly don't recognise Hansa Raval or the leadership of the BKWSO as having a monopoly on the term.

I meant in English it is no one, not "noone".

I am sorry, one of the reason you had your membership removed before was because the quality of your writing adds too much of burden on moderators.

You can write in Word or some other application and spellcheck there. Then copy and paste.

You cannot do "how you see fit". If you want to post here, you have to meet our standards too.

It's a balance between how much benefit you bring to the forum versus how much time and resources you waste. If you are not adding any benefit, you need to spellcheck.
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littleo

PBK

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post31 May 2013

Please, explain about the mainling list. You have a domain and then this is some software?
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BK_Victim

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post03 Jun 2013

littleo wrote:You are challenging me to show that I would not give these. Why not?...

I have taken BK emails from a list of all centers worldwide. These are also available on the BK site. I think they will not be more than 200. Even if I prepare a mailing list of non-BK people and friends of friends it will hardly be of few hundreds. I have few friends in BK, these are not much more than 5 people ...

A couple hundred or less BK email IDs will also help me. I could not find any even on BK site.

Send me the email list either in private message OR send me to victimbk@gmail.com
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post03 Jun 2013

BK_Victim wrote:Send me the email list either in private message OR send me to victimbk@gmail.com

I think what you are considering is a good thing and individual BK center-in-charges should see and read such accounts time and time again until it gets into their head what is going on ... and to let them know what the world is saying and thinking about them.

They are pretty thick skinned and many of them are used to it having been through similar cases before. They are also mentally prepared for the idea of "vice ridden and deluded anti-parties" attacking them ... they are always right, you are wrong.

I will support you in this but let me give you one hint from a practical point of view. Send your emails out in small batches and from different email address because the BK IT team are control freaks and have been known to block out any such email address as small. I don't know what filters and technologies they use, but I know we got blocked from communicating with BKs and BK centers, even where those BKs were willing to communicate with us.
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Misty

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post03 Jun 2013

Dear BK_Victim,

Wish you well and hope your stepping forward will be succesful and open people's eyes
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BK_Victim

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Re: Littleo and Defending the BKWSU

Post04 Jun 2013

ex-l wrote:Send your emails out in small batches and from different email address because the BK IT team are control freaks and have been known to block out any such email address

Ex-I,

I will keep the tip in mind. I already had trouble, when I tried to contact their centers or leaders when I attempted to communicate them about "how they were causing trouble to me and that they should move out of my way". I could not get a single contact to discuss or communicate. When I post some request or information on their site, it does not get posted. They only post if some one praises them. They only respond if some one is willing to surrender them. It was very obvious.
...we got blocked from communicating with BKs and BK centers, even where those BKs were willing to communicate with us....

This must be very obvious. I remember incident from about a decade ago when my family BK was getting attracted to BKism during very first year. He brought a leaflet home and when I saw it, I was shocked. It was telling in bullet points several things. Some that I still remember are "Do not see movies at all, as they all show bad things", "Do not read non BK books as they all contain bad literature", "Do not read newspapers, as they all contain bad and false information", "Do not listen OR Do not pay attention to people who are not followers of BK, as they are distracters" and so on.

The wordings are my own (it's been a very long time), but the meaning of their sentences was just as I stated above. My family BK just followed those rules 100% and still following them. They blocked his cognitive ability. They put information barriers around him, so that only information that reaches his mind is what comes from them or their channels.
Misty wrote:Wish you well and hope your stepping forward will be successful and open people's eyes

Misty, Thank you for the encouragement. I need this very much.

I am looking forward for littleo's mailing list.
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