Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

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enlightened

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Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

Post17 Jul 2013

prosheen wrote: Yes, that is true for many BKs but again we should also be careful and watchful of our own behaviour.

Who are you to say what we SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T BE SAYING OR DOING OR SHARING?

These type of words SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T DO THIS; MUST OR MUSTN'T DO THIS, are all words that instil fear in our lives. No human being has a right to impose what I should or shouldn't be doing. I have choice; I have freedom; I have boundaries; I have a voice; I am human; I am allowed to express my emotions and feelings; I am allowed to be angry if I need to ... THIS IS ALL PART OF THE REAL DYNAMICS OF BEING HUMAN AND OF LIFE ON EARTH.

God has put us on this planet to live, share, express, feel, touch, love, care, discuss, have opinions, disagreements, agreements etc and not to live a life in a bubble like a Brahma Kumari/Kumari. The life of a Brahma Kumar/Kumari is a life of a pseudo personality. It is not the life of the real innate being that is within all of us. I am a living proof of having been indoctrinated by the Brahma Kumaris since childhood and having lost touch with my innate being. None of this was healthy education for a growing child or even an adult in my opinion. It is a completely and utterly narrow minded way of living and it makes one extremely rigid, paranoid, sad, unhappy and unreal. All these must/should/have to/mustn't/shouldn't etc is a load of NONSENSE in my opinion.

A healthy relationship of any kind on this planet is one that is an Adult to Adult relationship as described in this article on Transactional Analysis:
Transactional Analysis

Each person is made up of three alter ego states: Parent, Adult, Child. These terms have different definitions than in normal language.

Parent


Physical - angry or impatient body-language and expressions, finger-pointing, patronising gestures,

Verbal - always, never, for once and for all, judgmental words, critical words, patronising language, posturing language.

N.B. beware of cultural differences in body-language or emphases that appear 'Parental'.

Child

Physical - emotionally sad expressions, despair, temper tantrums, whining voice, rolling eyes, shrugging shoulders, teasing, delight, laughter, speaking behind hand, raising hand to speak, squirming and giggling.

Verbal - baby talk, I wish, I dunno, I want, I am gonna, I don't care, oh no, not again, things never go right for me, worst day of my life, bigger, biggest, best, many superlatives, words to impress.

Adult

Physical - attentive, interested, straight-forward, tilted head, non-threatening and non-threatened.

Verbal - why, what, how, who, where and when, how much, in what way, comparative expressions, reasoned statements, true, false, probably, possibly, I think, I realise, I see, I believe, in my opinion.
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ex-l

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Re: Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

Post18 Jul 2013

prosheen wrote:Yes, that is true for many BKs but again we should also be careful and watchful of our own behaviour.

I am somewhat sensitive to BKism creeping their way into to this forum and the turning of attention away from what is happening out there in the real world, or the BK world, and back into the self is a typical BKism which, to some positive value is a good yukti (trick or method) to stop conflicts arising within a very small and closed environments; but, on the other hand, can all too easily be used to control individuals and stop them questioning and even challenging what should be questioned and challenged.

Using the model Enlightened offers us ... BKism exaggerates "Parent - Child" relationships particularly by persistently infantilising adherents as "children", and replacing their own parents with the Dadi or Senior Sisters in the parent role.

I would not say that most relationships within the BKWSU were "Adult-Adult", rather that a slightly more complex pseudo family is recreated ... again, developing that idea from you recent posts on pseudo-personalities.

The Brahma Kumari movement is largely a pseudo-family made out of pseudo-self arranged neatly according to seniority; Parents ... Senior Brothers and Sisters ... Junior Brothers and Sisters ... Baby Brothers and Sisters ... with outsiders seen something between pets and threats.

Being there there is no parent figure any more, e.g. Lekhraj Kirpalani, they have an invisible parent who can be magically moulded and manipulated to suit anything the manipulators fancy but, for the most part, the Dadi now plays the parent figure.

(What strikes me immediately in this is how clearly they have just re-instituted the social structure of the Hyderabad bhaibund community with, say, Dadi Janki Kirpalani playing the role of globe trotting father-businessman, Jayanti Kripalani as her son and heir, center-in-charges as their wives and BK centers as their stay at home families.)

Adult-Adult relationships are quickly but subtly knocked on the head when a newcomer joins which led to some utterly ridiculous scenarios of perfectly mature adults, far more educated and experienced, being infantilised to fit it.

It does though seem that it is possible to assert oneself within the BK system to attain an Adult-Adult status, e.g. say Mike George's relationship with the Kirpalani Klan and Brian Bacon's. There appear to be a few who have done so, however, the majority either accept their allotted (low) status within BK society (a very Hindu thing to do), or leave thinking it is a pile of idiotic crap.

Did so by challenging the will of the Kirpalani Klan and not bowing to it ... or just being of such great social and financial value to them that they were "made partners" in the business ... again borrowing from the Sindiworki model.

A child being born into such a system would first look to their physical parents for clue of how to fit in and survive and so I would have to ask you about your parents' position or relationship within the BKWSU, Enlightenment.

Prosheen, if your philosophy is that *one* should also be careful and watchful of *one's* own behaviour ... then *you* try it first and not tell others to do so.
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Re: Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

Post18 Jul 2013

ex-l wrote:Adult-Adult relationships are quickly but subtly knocked on the head when a newcomer joins which led to some utterly ridiculous scenarios of perfectly mature adults, far more educated and experienced, being infantilised to fit it.

I remember some mature age mothers saying how insulting it was to have young & single centrewassis on the ghaddi instructing them about how to live their lives.
It does though seem that it is possible to assert oneself within the BK system to attain an Adult-Adult status, e.g. say Mike George's relationship with the Kirpalani Klan and Brian Bacon's.

Those who are experienced in negotiating organisational politics & climbing The Ladder or are strong, assertive personality "types" have already learnt "How to win friends and influence people" (the title of the first hugely successful 'personal development' manual for success in business and life, by Dale Carnegie - much imitated).

Both those mentioned fit both categories and the BK arena was a playground in comparison to the jungle they were trained in.
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Re: Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

Post18 Jul 2013

Dear ex-l

It is not fair to take half a sentence of someone and beat about it in a new post when others can not see in what context the sentence was said.

You wrote
ex=l wrote:Many BKs have a habit of wanting to control other people's behaviour.
Many BKs have a habit of liking to rule the roost.
The BK environment even has its own perverted form of etiquette, e.g. what is "royal" or "angelic" and what is not ... according to its leaders, and
Many of its values are disempowering, e.g. not questioning the leaders, not speaking out about abuse and corruption, accepting non-answers.

and while replying to this I wrote
Yes, that is true for many BKs but again we should also be careful and watchful of our own behaviour.

I am not a native English speaker but I am sure it's not that bad that one cannot understand it. When I say "WE", I include myself too. What it meant was that we may be talking about BKs habits, environment and behaviour etc but we ourselves should not have similar patterns underlying our behaviour.

If SHOULD/SHOULD NOT disturbs you, it's your problem. I was saying something in general for all of us and not only to you.

And then you say
Before a newcomer's opinion is likely to taken seriously, they are going to have to prove their worth.

What worth I have to prove and to whom?

Honestly, I would prefer to join some other constructive discussion in this forum than this SENSE-FULL creative piece of yours.
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enlightened

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Re: Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

Post18 Jul 2013

Prosheen

No one is obliged, including you, to be careful or watchful of our or your behaviour. This is what was drummed into all of us by the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University education or indoctrination.

I think it's common sense about "what you sow, so shall you reap", however, the Brahma Kumaris stopped us from expressing anything and everything. They did not allow us to have any opinion whatsoever, we all had to behave in a certain way OR ELSE ...!

This is why we are rebelling against this idea about being careful and watchful of our own behaviour.

When something like this has been prohibited in any kind of environment, then one is not able to act as an individual with one's own personal qualities, characteristics and boundaries ... we were all being lead to walk a certain way, speak a certain way, eat a certain way, dress a certain way until the cows came home.

Whilst the BK management were allowed to behave differently, express themselves, have opinions, etc until the cows came home. They were clearly no example in front of anyone and certainly not careful or watchful of their own behaviour.

It is normal to express anger, feelings, opinions, emotions. None of us are perfect and there is no such thing as perfection in the real world. We need to adapt to how the real world functions again. Very few people in the real world are watchful or careful of their own behaviour.
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ex-l

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Re: Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

Post18 Jul 2013

prosheen wrote:Honestly, I would prefer to join some other constructive discussion in this forum than this SENSE-FULL creative piece of yours.

What does "sense-full" mean in plain English, or even BK English?

I am suspecting it means the same as "body-conscious" and you are accusing me of being "body-conscious" (low level of consciousness) which is one of the worst BK put downs or insults after "Bhakti" and "Bhagat".

If continue to tick off essences of Brahma Kumarism in your ideas, I would also include
If SHOULD/SHOULD NOT disturbs you ... it's your problem.

adding the emphasis on the "it's your problem". It's something else I often heard within the BK world.

For example, if something was wrong and you were effected by it ... they would completely ignore what was wrong or the wrongdoer, and turn it back on you. *You* were at fault for being effected by the wrongdoing!!! Amazing.

I remember a perfect example in a Brother bhavan (house) I was staying in. One BK Brother had an unhealthy diet and had the habit of clearing his throat and then spitting into the kitchen sink where we cleaned vegetables to eat and washed dishes etc. Great big sticky spits.

After he did it two or three times, I could not accept it any more and politely asked him *not* to spit in the kitchen sink. Instead of apologising, he turned around and gave me (his junior as he saw it) a lecture on how I should not see or being effected by other people and how if it bothered me it was my problem not his ... as if there was nothing *OBJECTIVELY* wrong with him spitting in the sink. As his junior and a new BK "obviously" I did not understand and I should have been concentrating on being soul-conscious instead ... not looking outward towards him.

Now, obviously that was bullsh**. Spitting in the sink others equally pay for and eat out of is not just bad manners, it is *objectively* disgusting and possibly health endangering (think of TB & India etc).

Therefore, largely I agree with what Enlightened said above. No one asked your opinion ... so take your own medicine.
What worth I have to prove and to whom?

This is an established community. You walked into an ongoing discussion between others without even introducing yourself. Is that how you treat strangers?

Where are your manners ... or do basic manners not count any more?

Your English is fine, the BKism you still carry are questionable.

OK, let's begin again ...
    "Hello, Prosheen ... who are you, how can we help you, what do you want?" (Please answer in a new topic).
And please remember to keep 'on topic'.

It's our habit here to quote as little of the previous posts as possible, just to refer back to them without readers have to read them all over again.
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Re: Transactional Analysis (re: Prosheen's comment)

Post19 Jul 2013

Dear ex-l

I don't carry the baggage of BKism as you do, that is why I have no problem with these words. In fact, the things you guys are explaining, picking these words, were nowhere in my mind. Which word comes from BKs and which not, why should I care? I am not a BK. When you find my comments nonsense, yours must be full of sense, that is what I mean. Now you find it Bhakti or well ... I really have no idea how you bring body and soul-consciousness into this. I am not intelligent enough to keep that much hidden meanings in my words. If it hurts you, I am sorry for that. Now, I hesitate to reply because you might pick up something again and explain it the way I can not even dream of.

The same was about behaviour. I might not be good in explaining that but for me it was as simple as, If I expect you to speak truth, I must speak truth myself. I had not even thought of BKs controlling powers and relations and freedom all that was explained later. cannot we keep it simple enough? Sure you guys have spent life time with BKs and are aware of all such nuances which I am not as I was with them (If I can say that) less than two years, so sometimes it's difficult for me to see where you are coming from.

The words "should/should not" etc, are they from BK dictionary? I don't know. During my time with BKs, I never read Murlis in English. And I only meant that these words are your problem that you don't like them, for me it's my way of expression. Now you pick up all beautiful examples to explain something that I can not think of.

I walked in that discussion just to ask people not be aggressive in their posts because I felt this (I admit I could be wrong but I did feel the tone was bullying) and do you expect me that I had taken those posts first for my introduction and then requested for not being aggressive? I had promised that I will introduce myself later.

And do you ask every newcomer who put their comments here to introduce them or I am the privileged one?

I don't take any offense when you say I carry BKism. I am free to carry good things form Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism and all isms that I know of.

To start again, I will make a separate introductory post, no problem, but it will not be exciting for sure.

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