My short stay and long story ... prosheen

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prosheen

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My short stay and long story ... prosheen

Post19 Jul 2013

ex-l wrote:OK, let's begin again ...
"Hello, Prosheen ... who are you, how can we help you, what do you want?" (Please answer in a new topic).

Hi Everyone,

I am not sure if every newcomer who puts a comment in this forum is asked to introduce him/herself or not but I am asked and I thank you for the attention. However, I doubt if you will find my story any exciting or interesting. Anyways, Prosheen is my user name here and not real name and I hope you don't mind If I don't reveal my identity as such. As I will talk about myself and my spouse, please don't mind excessive use of "I", "me" and "we". This could be long and boring, so please excuse me if you don't like it.

I was born and brought up in India and I have seen the society there divided by many barriers which I hated the most since my childhood. I never put any tag to my name that differentiates me from others just because of my birth to so called high-caste parents. I am telling this because this thing later helped me keeping my sanity during my BK experiments. My spouse is also Indian, we have two kids and now I am working in a non-English speaking European country. Unlike my spouse, who was always quite religious, I never was in a habit of going to temple, church etc or following any rituals, though I believed in God, or say Godliness, and was definitely for spirituality.

Fortunately, in India, I never came to know of the Brahmakumaris. It was only two to three years before around 2011 that we started watching "Awakening with Brahmakumaris" on television that we came to know about BKs. We liked this program and the way Shivani explained the things. One difference between her explanations (in earlier programs, I don't watch her now anymore) of questions relating to relationships, hurt, pain, self-esteem, ego, happiness etc and the BK Gyan was that she was not bringing God in unnecessarily and what she said looked very practical; at least to us.

At the end of almost every episode she used to ask viewers to visit a BK center and make your experiment and don't just believe in what she tells. That was very inviting, you know, and we made up our mind to make our experiments with BKism. At that time, we had no idea of such restrictions on food, relations and the celibacy things. In earlier programs, Shivani hardly discussed these things. Even in a later program, I was surprised to see her telling that, “celibacy is your choice, it will help you for sure, but if you cannot observe it is up to you to decide”. I wondered if she was called up by a senior later or not?

At that point, I also found this site but did not go deep into it because I did not want to be prejudiced before doing my experiments. We took the 7 Day Course in 9-10 days because we had lots of questions. The teacher was a young lady (much younger than me) and was very comfortable discussing The Knowledge with us and whenever she was stuck with our questions, she was humble enough to admit that she doesn't know and will try to find the answer later. Obviously, in many cases, she could never find an answer. But still I admire her humbleness and that she was also learning in the process.

All this was done mostly on telephone and we never went to the center which was in a different city quite away from my residence. That means we were only occasionally in touch with the center-in-charge. We mostly had conversations about Murlis or other classes on tele-conferences and I met her personally only 2-3 times during some retreats or her lectures near my place.

Changing food habits was not a problem, celibacy definitely was but we made sure that we follow things right during our experiment time and we really hoped that if it's God saying the things, we will be able to overcome the so called vices. At least my spouse was really into it and never had any doubt for BKs or BK God. I, personally, was moving but with my questions and with my doubts. Being Indian, many of the teachings in BKism comes easy to you. For instance, "I am a soul and not a body" was not the first time I had heard it and, similarly, all the things associated with Soul were heard of before in typical Hindu mythology and stories coming therefrom. During this initial phase (3-6 months in Gyan), I used to raise questions about Murli points and from a very different point of view than a BK would typically think of, but also often getting little aggressive. However, later I was told by some BKs that there were many followers who liked me for this because they could not (or dare not) ask such things (mainly due to fear factor in my opinion) and, in private, they asked me to raise the questions.

I could not meditate with open eyes and I told this to the sister-in-charge of center. She was little shocked but agreed for closed eyes meditation. That means, I hardly followed her Drishti. She gave me it personally later but I was never convinced with these kinds of acts. Daily Murli (either on phone or internet or we used to get by post also) and some classes on weekend either on phone or internet was routine. Because the center was away, we were saved to go there frequently.

In six months, we were like "last but very fast" and that was just because we were sincere with our experiments and were honest with what we think of knowledge. I do appreciate the Sister in charge for never blocking us when I said I don't like this point in Murli. I have not heard any one saying this. Not something to be proud of but what you do if you really don't like something said by GOD? I heard every one saying, I like this and I like that point, so whenever I did not like a point, I told, "today I don't like this". That was definitely shocking for most of them and there were some who did not like me just for this thing, which is understandable, and to avoid hurting those souls, I stopped doing this soon.

On the other hand, the Senior Sister in center never ever told me to shut up and not insult God or anything like that. She tried to explain things and many times successfully different ways. So we were following things as couple (Jugal) and at home. We were never asked for any kind of money or donation etc. The people were, in fact, all kind (what I observed whenever I could meet them). Sister-in-charge herself is very hard working lady and so were others too. However, what I observed from the 2-3 retreats where we met all others and during our telephone conferences for Murlis or classes, that most of them had some problems with their lives that had brought them to BKs. Some had very big tragedies, like deaths of young ones; some had health problems, others had relations that went wrong; there were very few persons who were happy, peaceful, healthy and had careers, and still joined Brahmakumaris. We were among those few, and may be because of this we were tagged with "last so fast". I don't know.

So what went wrong?

Some points: I had joined BKism to,
    i) evolve as a better person (not angel for sure) emotinally and spiritually,
    ii) to realize if I am really the Soul that I always accepted theoretically,
    iii) to know what God means and what it means to have a relationship with God; and
    iv) to feel the joy of living, the happiness that oozes out
I was least concerned with Destruction or heaven. In fact, I could not much understand the Golden Yuga from practical and technological point of view.

I always listen to my conscience and follow my heart. I never liked the idea of leaving my manmat. After all it was my inner voice that I followed to join BKs, then why I should not listen to it again when it rebels? I am not for keeping two personalities (pseudo you may call it). As I was not able to accept everything in Murlis, like 5,000 years cycle, or repetition of drama and I was not experiencing anything different in meditation (no Subtle Region, no vision and eventually no peace or happiness too) than what I used to feel before coming to BK Gyan. I slowly felt like losing my freedom. I never like to be a puppet even if the hands are of God to say. The others who were following were of no help as most of them were following it like Bhakti. They dare not ask a question, dare not stand up and demand a change, and surprisingly many were also attending those religious ceremonies in their respective temples etc.

I was asked to give courses to new students which I humbly refused because I cannot deceive myself. When I had my doubts about the Gyan, I am not a teacher for this thing. From the very first Murli that was read to me by the young Sister, I had doubts if it was God telling stuff. I always felt it was Brahma Baba and after reading things in this forum, regarding his diary etc. I think he had mostly explained Bhakti things he was doing himself and thought other might also be doing same way and kept explaining it.

We, the whole family, my two kids (< 11 yrs) too went to Madhuban to meet BapDada. And this was really turning point for us. We were there in Madhuban before too, during a summer just for a normal visit, and, therefore, we could make out the difference between the two timings, i.e. when BapDada is there and when is not there (theoretically again). What I felt was that the emotions and the feelings of the people who come there all the way from other places to meet God make the difference and not the so called BK God itself.

We were there in front of God and did not feel anything. And I was keeping myself so focused on God that nothing else enters my mind for those moments, as this moment may be coming once in Kalpa (as per BKism). But, no, I did not have any sort of good feeling; no love, no shower of ecstasy, not even peace. And then I doubted myself, that because I have moved on this path with my doubts, this could be the obstacle. What I was surprised, that my spouse who had not an iota of doubt for BK God also did not feel any Godly thing around. In fact, we had better feelings at our home.

When some BKs visited us, they also told me that my apartment had great positive vibrations. And I know it’s the feeling coming from within them and not from my apartment. In short, we were disappointed. But we were more disappointed with our short meeting with Dadi Janki. I did not find her at all spiritual. I may be wrong as it was too short a meeting (10 minutes) and I don't want to make any judgment over them. The only thing she had to tell my spouse was to take up a job and earn more Euros! Dadi Gulzar on the other hand, looked more settled in thoughts and I could feel love in her eyes for others.

As I mentioned before, we were never asked to donate money (may be because we were always doing it), the most shocking incident for me was at Dadis Niwas, where I saw one of the Sister who takes care of one of Dadis was telling (with loud authority) some innocent village people to donate a fixed amount (I don't remember how much that was per person in a group) but the attitude was so rude and the wording was, "you are not doing any favor to us by donation, you are only making your own fortunes" ... and usual BK blah ... blah.

We came back and continued for some time with BKs but watchfully and kept discussing between us if this is the right path. Me and my spouse are very good friends, and therefore were even open to a situation when one still wishes to remain with BKs. Being friends and discussion with each other, and not with many pukkas BKs, have helped us kept our sanity intact.

So after near about two years, when I sat back and analyzed my inner space, I felt I had lost a very loving relationship that I had with God; that my relationship with my spouse was not as stronger as it used to be; that the happiness that was present in my life had gone missing and slowly getting replaced by boredom or stagnation (I don't know the right word here); that being with BKs was still more or less same phenomenon of proving, disproving if one is better than others and polishing egos etc. which is not spiritual way of life; that suppression of feelings like a physical relation is not the way to go beyond them (for some it might work, not for me); that I was not able to overcome ego and jealousy too; that I was becoming a split personality who has to act differently with different persons and do not remain the original.

For my spouse, the family is the foremost and golden palaces are nothing before it. When in years for the first time I showed signs of no interest in my work and the very first sign of may be a kind of depression, my spouse took immediate decision to bid good bye to BKism.

Now it is very difficult for me to say if I was ever a BK. It disturbed me when somebody called others "shudras" and I always felt a rebel bubbling in me. I could eat from others if it's vegetarian stuff because I don't think hurting their innocent feelings is any angelic karma. I never wanted to be tagged and had never followed BKism like a pukka one. But that also means, I do not carry the burden of BKism all the time with me because I don't have any history of bad experience with them, not any kind of personal abuse for instance. That is why I am free to use some words which others in this forum may quickly associate with BKism, for me it's simply my way of exact or similar expression when translating from my language to English and I don't feel bad/good/great about them. I don't know if should/should not/have to belong to them as I used to read Murli in Hindi only. I have no problem in replying with Om Shanti to anyone who greets me that way. I understand that many people on this site have gone through horrible experiences with BKs and it's difficult to get healed but please don't expect everyone going through similar experiences.

As I was aware of this site, only recently I started to read more of it. There are amazing experiences and other discussions and I congratulate you guys for putting up that much here. You don’t find it anywhere else. For me, it was interesting to know more about BKs and leadership so that I can tell others if I feel there is a need (though I believe my truth can never be your truth if not experienced by you). I am not here seeking any kind of help. I am perfectly fine and enjoy my freedom, emotionally, psychologically and perhaps spiritually too. We have stopped reading, listening Murlis and celib-r-ate the non-celibacy (wasn't that a joke somewhere on this site) and that too without fear and guilt. We do meditate and this might be encouraging to some, this goes much better now and I do feel that unconditional love of existence (you might call it God) present again there. And I wish the same freedom to everyone in this world.

I am not here to prove to anyone if I am a BK, or BK supporter or anti-BK, because I don't believe in categorizing people. Let them be free individuals. I think you are not free, if you are a BK and may I say that you are not free if you are anti-BK too. Crowds are dangerous things to happen to a society not a group of individuals. I can still learn something good from both a BK and a so called anti-BK. We should leave our biases if we judge others (you see, I cannot avoid this "should/should not" because this comes from cultural effect on my language but has nothing to do with BKism).

Thanks for your time to read something I never thought I will put in words. If the members of this forum think I should not comment on a discussion just let me know and that is fine with me as well. Enjoy your life!
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pawan_kr

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Re: My short stay and long story...prosheen

Post19 Jul 2013

It was great reading your long story.

The best thing I liked is that you do not carry any tag , I think there is no need to tag yourself and loose your individuality.

Some people think that this site or forum only criticises BKSWU but I think it is not so. This forum discusses real experiences and facts and if someone puts some facts which shows some good works of BKSWU, there is no harm in appreciating it.

But if someone comes here like MCN and spread lies of his treatment of some deadly disease by BKSWU, which even specialist doctors failed to and refuse to give the name of disease or any documents regarding his claim, then it is impossible to believe him.

And if this is taken as criticism of BKSWU then what to do ?

This forum discusses about the BKSWU's history, their basic ideology which is stolen from Gita and Hinduism, their process of meditation, which is not like ancient method (sitting in peace and closing eyes), but similar to self-hypnosis (opened eyes, dark room with soft music to initiate semi-sleep) and their way to operating their organisation; just like any corporate which involves marketing strategies and lot of publicity.

And when all this is discussed, documents or proofs are provided.

If some supporter of BK have some proofs or documents to counter, he is welcomed. But poking nose in every discussion and that without any proofs or documents, just to irritate the people makes such person an unwelcomed guest.
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Pink Panther

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Re: My short stay and long story ... prosheen

Post20 Jul 2013

Hi Prosheen

I appreciated your post. It made it clear (for me) where you are "coming from". I am glad that you and your spouse kept a semblance of objectivity and were able to judge that the initial 'high' was wearing off and that deleterious effects were starting to set in. You're lucky to have each other as sounding boards and withdrawing to reality when you did.
Prosheen wrote:"for me it's simply my way of exact or similar expression when translating from my language to English and I don't feel bad/good/great about them. ... I have no problem in replying with Om Shanti to anyone who greets me that way.

For many westerners, India and the Hindi language & culture is first encountered to any extent through the BKs, therefore many phrases and habits which are actually common to "Hinglish" speakers are associated directly with BKs, when in fact they are more general.

Even the Om Shanti phrase. I remember the first time I heard it was at the end of a music track by the late, great satirist/musician Frank Zappa where after the music ends, lots of different (funny) voices chant in a fast and furious manner - Om Shanti, Om Shanti, Om Shanti, Om Shanti, Om Shanti - i.e.making the point humorously that the meaning of Om Shanti is contradicted by any fanatic or non-thinking devotee saying it ... (this was recorded when eastern spirituality etc was entering the West - late '60s early '70s). I remember hearing many BK people say "Om Shanti" with anger, as a command ... like saying "Shut Up".

If someone *is* a peaceful soul, why do they need to say it? It's like someone going around and saying 'I am a wise person, I am a wise person" - or even worse (and contradictorily) when they say "*I* have no ego".
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ex-l

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Re: My short stay and long story ... prosheen

Post20 Jul 2013

Great introduction, really heart warming story.

Thank the real god one couple and family were able to resist and survive the parasitical interests of the Brahma Kumari crones to divide and conquer the world one home by another.

You probably think at times my views are a little exaggerated ... but, literally, that is what the BKs used to teach in the old days, and what remains in their core and especially across the Indian sub-continent. "To conquer the world three square feet at a time" is, verbatim, what their god spirit had the "Shiv-Shakti Army" going out to do. And how many couples, families and homes we have heard them cause havoc in? ... I have lost count.

Interest to hear that they are now giving the course by telephone. I had not heard of that before ... and not sure how it works.

Ditto, thank you very much for the short vignette you detailed of the bossy center-in-charge instructing innocent village types to donate "for the own good".


Fine ... if it is for their own good, and the BKWSU gets no benefit from it ... give the money back to the villagers in some practical form that would benefit the village ... like a water pump, school, healthcare or sanitation.

Western BKs like to ignore and hide such truths as they travel "First Class" within the BK system and don't question how and where all the money comes from. (In truth, many of the Western "grunt" class of the BKWSU (infantry) are poncing off the BK system donating very little money back into it. Most comes from Indians or the Indian diaspora who have the "Bhakti sanskar" or susperstition to give to "holy people"). We've had other reports of village women being bullied to hand over their family jewellery which, as you know, is they wealth and what little security they have. The jewellery is then given as presents to wealthy and powerful VIPS.

I also wonder how the BKs explain, according to Karma philosophy, that by giving money to them, the individual is somehow *magically* rewarded, or how they are somehow *magically* empowered by god to accept donations on "god's behalf".

Honestly, if I give a meal to a starving child or help uplift downtrodden women in India is "god" less impressed, and my karmic reward less ... than if I give it to the Brahma Kumaris to help them go chasing after sexy Bollywood stars?

Does the 'god of the BKs' really care more about the welfare of sexy Bollywood stars than the starving children or downtrodden women of India?

Welcome to the forum, prosheen.

For Pink ... the somewhat apt, but not my cup of tea, Cosmic Debris.

prosheen

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Re: My short stay and long story ... prosheen

Post21 Jul 2013

Thanks Guys, its very kind of you to read that long one.
Pawan wrote:Some people think that this site or forum only criticises BKSWU but I think it is not so.

A constructive criticism is very welcome, and any person with slight independent thinking can take it (even with a pinch of salt sometimes) and I am sure there are many things one can learn from others experiences and the discussions posted on this site, so it will be good only if the site does not look very biased.
But if someone comes here like MCN and spread lies of his treatment of some deadly disease by BKSWU, which even specialist doctors failed to and refuse to give the name of disease or any documents regarding his claim, then it is impossible to believe him.

I understand that. But their situation is also not difficult to understand. It's like someone has a cold for years and we know there is no medicine for it and he gets cured by homeopathy somehow, it won't be surprising that he gives credit to it and start recommending to others. We go by our experiences, both good and bad, but things go wrong when we start forcing things over others and begin to influence their psychology and instill fear, and guilt and something like. "I have achieved" and "you have missed", y´know these are the tricks to control and enslave people. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Pink Panther wrote:If someone *is* a peaceful soul, why do they need to say it? It's like someone going around and saying, "I am a wise person, I am a wise person" - or even worse (and contradictorily) when they say, "*I* have no ego"

Well said PP. May be they know they are not peaceful, so at least they can tell others that they definitely are and, y'know, poor followers might think that long faces are peaceful souls only.
ex-l wrote:You probably think at times my views are a little exaggerated ... but, literally, that is what the BKs used to teach in the old days, and what remains in their core and especially across the Indian sub-continent. "To conquer the world three square feet at a time" is, verbatim, what their god spirit had the "Shiv-Shakti Army" going out to do. And how many couples, families and homes we have heard them cause havoc in? ... I have lost count.

Yes, ex-l, sometimes I did feel that. But now you know why. On the other hand, the kind of experience you and some others had with BKs, I think (and wonder how) you guys still keep it very much on the borderline and that is commendable. This provides much value to this site and the ' knowledge' appearing here. I have personally witnessed cases where people were shouting at senior BKs for breaking the family and, as you said, there are numerous cases. However, there are many cases like ours, where it was entirely a person's own decision to join them without any persuasion from their side.
interest to hear that they are now giving the course by telephone. I had not heard of that before ... and not sure how it works.

It's like a tele-conference where many persons join a given number and can hear and speak to one another. Very effective way actually for them when centers are not in every city. Has only draw back that people take it leisurely then and never bother to make effort to go to center (not bad!!)
Western BKs like to ignore and hide such truths as they travel "First Class" within the BK system and don't question how and where all the money comes from. (In truth, many of the Western "grunt" class of the BKWSU (infantry) are poncing off the BK system donating very little money back into it. Most comes from Indians or the Indian diaspora who have the "Bhakti sanskar" or superstition to give to "holy people").

Very true, that is also something I observed in Madhuban. Even when a Senior Sister of a European country asked her group to collect money to give to Dadi, no Western BK gave a single euro; only the Indians living abroad and in that group collected and donated. You are right, it could be cultural things coming, and also Bhakti things including fear and the usual BK stuff of getting padam times back.
Honestly, if I give a meal to a starving child or help uplift downtrodden women in India is "god" less impressed, and my karmic reward less ... than if I give it to the Brahma Kumaris to help them go chasing after sexy Bollywood stars?

Absolutely, it's so obvious when you feed some one hungry or give the kids clothes, toys etc the shine that appears in their eyes is so magical and beautiful but you will miss it if you have BK-Blindness.

Thanks ex-l for your comments. There is nothing personal here. Everyone has his/her own journey and everyone has to make his/her own path. We can share our joys and other experiences and if it helps someone, that is an additional advantage.

arvind.giri

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Re: My short stay and long story ... prosheen

Post24 Oct 2013

I was listening to this knowledge for last 2 years and got benefitted a lot. I joined the basic course last week which got completed today only.

After reading above post following thoughts are coming in my mind:
    1. BK is a medium for getting the The Knowledge, it is not the only medium. Keep experimenting and keep using your intellect.

    2. Having faith in BK is your choice, but always have faith in GOD.

    3. Always be free of all 5 vices, even forget vices ... Be free of anger and pain

    4. Live life happily ... If you are feeling even a pinch of pain ... try to eliminate that

    5. Respect all.

    6. BKs is run by people like us, do not expect everyone to be perfect and 100% knowledgable. Everyone is on a journey.
Arvind
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Pink Panther

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Re: My short stay and long story ... prosheen

Post25 Oct 2013

HI Arvind.giri

Your 5 points are very "accepting" without being "excluding" but they are still too narrow. The motive seems to be "if it feels good, its OK, whatever you believe".

The experiences of those here who gave anything from just two years but even two decades of "listening to this knowledge" is that what you believe, no matter how good it feels at the time or how good it works at the time, really does matter, in too many ways to revisit in this reply. Please continue to read others' experiences and views on this and other sites and maybe consider ...

It's not only what a belief does for you that matters. It's whether that belief really is what does it, or whether you hand over your qualities, divert credit from the real causes of the "good", to your belief.

(PS lets not divert from this topic's theme. You can start new topic if you wish to discuss this).

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