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Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013
by swagi
Hi All,

I am new to this forum but quite used to the teachings of Brahmakumaris. Especially I love to watch Sister Shivani's programs on Astha and Sanskar. She is just amazing and explains everything so nicely and logically as well. Actually since a long time I wanted to discuss my life issues with you and, finally, I am here. Hope I'll get a proper guidance from you guys.

So my issues are related to the relationship with my husband. We got (arranged) married in 2002 with a lot of cultural and personality differences. Basically I am very independent, feministic and idealistic natured woman who comes from a family with very few rituals and traditions. And he is just opposite to that ... very dependent on his family for every decision, belongs to a very orthodox family though himself doesn't follow anything and a little conservative, short temper in nature. And more of all, he is not expressive at all. He is very poor in communication.

However, we had our own share of ups and downs throughout these 11 years of courtship. We are also blessed with two bright sons aged 9 yrs and 6 yrs. Now, the problem is I always wanted to work and be financially independent. I started working since 2010 on a part-time basis so that I can make balance between my home and work. But he is not liking it at all. In fact, he doesn't like anything about me. Well, that's what I feel. So gradually he has stopped talking to me. We hardly talk to each other. Since few days, we're also sleeping in different rooms.

Therefore, I am feeling very left out, hurt and lonely. I am simply confused about what to do in such a situation. I seriously want to work on it and transform this relationship into a better one in this life time only. But don't know how and where to start. Whenever I am trying to take one step forward something or other is happening which pushes me two step backward creating more distance between us. Is it some kind of nature's call to stay away from it, or is it something related to my karmic account which can not be changed?

Please, please, throw some light on it from the spritual point of view and on how to handle this situation.

Thanks and Regards,


Re: Need your help urgently.

PostPosted: 25 Sep 2013
by Mr Green

I think you just need marriage counselling, not anything spiritual.

Learn to love him or let go?


Re: Need your help urgently.

PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013
by Pink Panther
If even just a loveless environment is felt by children, they are not getting emotional nourishment and role models. Worse if there is actual tension or friction - that is psychologically toxic. If you are able to negotiate your relationship so it is beneficial for the children, do so. If it is merely "not obviously harmful" - is that really what they deserve?

Note: BK teachings will say that you need to look after family, they are your karmic responsibility, but they will also advise to put them (Baba) first. This turns the blessing of children almost into a curse, or at least a burden.

Your children need YOU. God needs nothing. Logic can be manipulated when it concerns the heart.

Ignore words. Follow your instincts.

Re: Need your help urgently.

PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013
by swagi
Hello Pink Panther, Mr. Green,

Thank you so much for your concerns.

But thing is I don't need to learn loving him. Because I really do that in spite of all our differences. That's why I am looking for some solution to make it better. We are both good as parents and quite concerned for our kids. So we'll definitely negotiate and keep staying together for sake of them.

My question is should I keep trying to make this relatinship a better one or should I just leave it like that accepting it as my karmic returns. If your answer is "yes" to my question, then any tips would be really helpful. Because I really do care for him and would like to create a healthy environment for us as well as for kids.


Re: Need your help urgently.

PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013
by jann
SWAGATIKA, you said you are used to BK teachings. Is there anything according to that, that might influence your relationship or the way you think about it?

Re: Need your help urgently.

PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013
by swagi
Hey Jaan,

Hope you are doing good. Is it really weird the way I think about my relationship? (just kidding)

Frankly, I am open to all kinds of teachings and religions from all around the world. I just read and research everything whatever comes in my way.

So, as far as my knowledge and understanding goes, we all are heavily influenced by our past karmic deeds. Some are easy to erase by doing any positive karmas and some are very difficult to change. So the best way to deal with is to accept them gracefully in your life.

Well, in my case, I am confused whether to accept the situation as my fate and let it go, or try to change the situation with some actions which can balance my karmic account with my husband. If, yes, then what and how?


Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 26 Sep 2013
by ex-l
Swagatika wrote:Basically I am very independent, feministic and idealistic natured woman who comes from a family with very few rituals and traditions. And he is just opposite to that ... Since few days, we're also sleeping in different rooms.

Hello Swagatika,

Thank you for having the courage to post on this forum. I must say straight away that you already sounds like a highly attractive woman to me, so don't expect the same advice from me as you might get from Shivani. If your husband is not interested, I would have an affair with you and see if that fixes things. You sound like exactly the right kind of strong, confident, capable modern woman I am attracted to.

He should consider himself lucky to have such a woman in his life, spiritually attractive by any objective standards I would say. Have you ever asked him what sort of woman he really wanted in his life ... or perhaps he did not even want a woman but just had to get married to suit his parents?

What would I like to say?

Firstly, the concept of Karma is not meant to used as a chain or anchor, or an excuse to stick with what is hurting or unsatisfactory to you. It has been used as such in the past, and particularly by the patriarchal leaders and religions to suppress women. Chuck those sort of ideas out and create your own destiny. After taking advice from those your respect, learn your own lessons in life, face your own consequences and overcome them.

Secondly, don't be entirely duped by the facade Sister Shivani presents. Yes, perhaps, the programmes are inspirational and better than watching junk TV, however, they are also very artificial and theoretical. They are paid for and produced by the Brahmakumaris to make them look good. They are carefully staged, prepared and edited.

In truth, BKs do not have any deep understanding of karma and the purpose of those programmes in really just to appeal to the beliefs and social conventions of those individuals they are seeking to encult into their religions. They are part of a 'soft sell' marketing approach. Shivani has a good memory and can be poetic but she is really just repeating things she has heard within the religion and I am not sure how much she really knows.

Many of us here have had very long and deep involvements with the BKs going back to the 1980s and 1970s which brought us into contact with the religion's leaders, her teachers, and, to be honest, when you scratch the surface or really challenged them over philosophical matters, there is not a lot to them. Their core philosophy is very slim - and quite different from how it is presented by Shivani - and their intentions are to encult and exploit as many individuals as much as possible.

They have absolutely *no* authority or qualifications to speak and give advice on relationships. They are, in short, anti-human relationships.

Going back to your situation, obviously, not knowing you or your husband, it is difficult for us to give you accurate advice. All we can offer are our considerations for you think about and decide, and share with you our own personal experience.

In my opinion, I would say that once a man has moved to a separate bedroom, and perhaps does not want to be intimate with you any more ... by which I don't necessarily mean sex but even just kissing and hugging ... his heart has closed. Especially, if he is unwilling to kiss and hug, then I would say it has happened ... even more than intercourse which many men can do mechanically. Something has happened. If you can, you might ask him what, e.g. perhaps his affections have gone to some other woman, perhaps he has confusing a mother/wife complex, or perhaps he is even questioning his sexuality or just has a very low one. It's impossible for me to say across an internet forum.

You could drop a bomb and ask him directly to be very honest.

I am not Indian but I know a little of the typical stereotypes of Indian men from Indian friends and the time I spent with the BK community. Often their are 'parent' issues and the males are trapped by their strong mothers and fathers. To quote Pink Panther on another issue, sometimes what is required of them, not you, is to "man up", and take control of their own life ... if we were to analyse your situation further, I'd have to ask more about his relations with them and if they, the mother or Father, are corroding your relationship. Often the best thing to do is to push away the parents, as far and as long as possible, to allow you two to work things out on your own.

That would require their understanding.

I am going to be blunt now and express my values, a) to me it sounds a little like he is being immature, undeveloped and petulant, and b) you should be careful just how much anger you should tolerate. Again, to me, it sounds like he is being a bit of a baby and controlling. What is going on? Does he want you to be mother, or is he jealous and insecure at your being outside and meeting other people? That's is understandable when someone is 3 years old but not later!

I think you should be careful not to hold back or destroy your own personal and career development just to suit him ... what does he want and what is he offering?

Lastly, throw away any superstitious ideas about "resolving karma" so it does not come back to you in another life with him ... it does not work like that, nor does it mean you have to suffer his weaknesses or indulgences in this or any other one. Karma teaches us to take control of our own destiny.

The one thing that you have not said is ... what does he want or expect? If the answer is *much* less of a woman than you, then you have a slight problem. It sounds like you have gone ahead of him in development and if it is true, then it could lead to further problems.

Is he independent from his parents in all ways? If the worst came to the worse, could you look after yourself or find someone else to live with?

Thank you

Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 27 Sep 2013
by swagi
Hi Ex-I,

Your post is really interesting. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks for all the compliments and for the decent proposal as well.

I also like the line:
ex-l wrote:They have absolutely *no* authority or qualifications to speak and give advice on relationships. They are, in short, anti-human relationships.

Don't worry Dear. I don't follow anyone blindly. I follow only my intuitions. And my intuition is saying that I should continue this relationship with my husband. It's good for my family and friends, better for my kids and more of all best for both of us. Instead of investing your time and energy in a new relationship whom you don't know at all at the cost my kid's happiness why not just try to make this relationship to work for us.

You know, my husband seems to be a puzzle for me which I enjoy solving. He is good at heart though a little poor in EQ and SQ. I just wanted to learn some advance tips'n'tricks on how to solve it. Anyways, I hope I'll learn it in due course of time. Just wish me luck. I really need that.

Thanks to all of you for your support and concern.

Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 27 Sep 2013
by because.parmeshwar
i am afraid but have to say that this complete topic is just getting out of the way and will lose the credibility of the forum and distract from the way it is supposed to be on. Unlike BKs this forum should keep the mission and vision clear.


Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 27 Sep 2013
by ex-l
Swagatika wrote:Thanks for all the compliments and for the decent proposal as well.

I assure you, madam, it was an entirely indecent proposal ... not a decent one ... but I hope it flattered you and increased your feeling of self-worth. I meant it. You sound every part the modern woman your husband should be proud of and should show him, but remind him you still love him too.

Why do not we put aside any spiritual pretensions for a moment and just as the same question on a purely mundane level ... as in, "from a man's point of view, what is this man thinking or doing?". The type of distancing you write about could just indicate he is stressed elsewhere.

The concepts of Spiritual Intelligence & Quotient (SQ) was introduced into the BKs by a marketing man in the West called BK Mike George. I understand the idea of Emotional Intelligence & Quotient (EQ) was developed by a non-BK Daniel Goldman but do not know much about it.

I actually found the book 'Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus' by American author and relationship counselor John Gray to be very reasonable and entertaining. I recognised the image of men as bears who need to retreat into their caves for a while to recharge or heal wounds as being very accurate.

If you take one thing from this conversation please let it be a degree of caution as regards the BKs. The BKs are selling their End of the World religion and want to encult individuals into it. It is essentially anti- relationship. All of these talks are just a soft sell for what the real teachings of the religion say, and the real teachings are often the opposite of the sale pitch.

If you want assistance in human relationships, seek advice from those expert and experienced in them. Not from those who have none, and are just seeking to use your feelings of vulnerability of unhappiness to sell their religion to you.

Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 28 Sep 2013
by Pink Panther

Also it may simply be that he feels threatened by you being something he doesn't understand or control. He may be someone who, although clever, is not really able to deal with nuances or people changing. Maybe he does not like to hear alternative ideas?

All I am saying is do your best, say less, let the atmosphere reveal itself. Words often cover over what is really happening. If you can lead your life as a couple but still live each one independently - allow each other to be and to do what each of you wants to as long as responsibilities are fulfilled, that's not a bad thing at all. Give each other permission to be different.

And, yes, the public facade of BKs seems very liberal and supportive but, if they get a sniff that you are "accessible" or vulnerable, they will offer you much in the way of intangibles - free advice, spiritual platitudes - but tangibly they only take and take - wanting your time, money, loyalty, energy.

Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 06 Oct 2013
by khushboo
i want to tell me whether i m right or wrong i fell for a person and we
were in a relationship for almost a year and would love to be with each
other forever but i told this to my parents they did not agree to this as he
is of a different caste and for my parents i broke up with him but still
loves him.... i m in sticky problem where i have to decide two things at a
time my parents or him? and i love both and don't want to hurt any one of
them..but i already hurt ed both by saying to my parents that i love him
and for their sake i left him and broke his heart too and i am feeling very
guiltily of my mistake
i also want to tell that i m not good at taking decisions.

Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 06 Oct 2013
by Pink Panther

In the West, we have what is known as the Agony Aunt. Not a real auntie but someone who may be like an auntie to whom people write their emotional problems, in newspapers and magazines and weblogs etc.

I think if you have a real auntie that can play this role it is even better, because you can have a longer in-depth conversation. Otherwise a counsellor or some such person.

This site can be agonising, or it can be agony for some, but we are not "Love Gurus" nor agony aunts. Maybe you should go to this site's home page to read what it is about.

If your issue or question has something to do with Brahma Kumaris you can tell, ask or share, but as far as general relationships advice, this is not the place.

Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 06 Oct 2013
by ex-l
Pink Panther wrote:Khushboo ... but we are not "Love Gurus" nor agony aunts.

And neither are Shivani or the Brahma Kumaris. They really ought to have disclaimers on their TV shows that they cannot and do not advise on relationship problems.

Khushboo, the Brahma Kumaris pay for Sister Shivani's TV programme as an advert to promote their religion. That is all it is. Their religion is anti-sex, anti-love, anti-relationships. They prey on vulnerable and confused people like you, or on normal people who are going through a vulnerable and confused period of their life.

But the Brahma Kumaris are an End of the World cult who believe this "impure" world must be Destroyed and all 7 billion people die so that they might be reborn in a Heaven on Earth Sat Yug and live in peace for 2,500 years.

They are not going to help you with your problems, except to encourage you to avoid them completely by surrendering your mind, body, money and property to them. I think their theory is, "once you have nothing, you'll have no more to complain about". Their leaders encourage followers to surrender to them, not think and not question.

You problems are, of course, the Universal problems of India today. Caste-ism in illegal and if you are in your adulthood, you have the law on your side to do as you think best for yourself.

To decide a marriage purely on caste is an anachronism, it belongs to an older, more primitive age in which women, like yourself, were property and traded. Marriage was a business relationships that tied two families together. It also had a political aspect to protect the power, wealth and property of the ruling classes and keep even the good lower classes down.

In fact, beware! If you surrender to the Brahma Kumaris, *they* will demand your dowry and keep it. You will probably never find a husband.

Having said that, parents - in theory - also want "the best" for their children and have more experience of the realities of life.

Unfortunately, - in practise - they also can be ignorant, backwards, rigid, arrogant, proud, stupid etc.

It's impossible for us to know who is in the right here.

I, personally, and I am sure everyone on this website, would have no prejudice whatsoever against a boy depending on "what caste" he came from. Many of the very lowest castes and the most generous and wonderful people. Many have risen right to the very top of Indian society as with your last president or Dr. B.R. Ambedkar who wrote the constitution and freed many more Untouchables even than Gandhi.

Pandering to your parents' prejudice and pride alone are not good enough reasons for you to live a loveless life or be unhappy in marriage ... even if, materially, you are secure. However, on the other hand, do they see other problems in the individual or your future that you do not? For example, do you live in a backwards area where he and you will suffer prejudice and be held back? Does he have rough characteristics and is he just using you to move up in life? Is he good husband material?

We cannot tell. As Pink Panther says, you need to speak to someone closer to you who can see both sides. No spiritualist, astrologer or guru will be able to predict.

Of course, India is changing and your generation will change it even more. Making decisions is just a strength or habit which only practise can make perfect, so you have to practise making decisions and acting on them. Learn by mistakes and hopefully not make too big ones.

It sounds perhaps as if you have been dominated by your parents and society, and this has led to you becoming insecure and unable to control of your own destiny. There are many strong Indian woman who have done so before you.

Decide, act and learn from the consequences, then keep moving on.

A marriage is more than just love though. It is also a business relationship. You make a contract to invest your lives into one pot and look after each other ... you have to ask yourself whether he is the best investment.

On the other hand, we are also talking about love, affection and sex and that is an area where India is very confused. Again, women's bodies have been made the property of men for the sake of men; not the women themselves.

It is my opinion, that a certain amount of experimentation in the areas of love, affection and sex is a very good and healthy thing for young people. You need love and you need experience to develop and grow, to know what you want and like best, how to be treated and how to treat a lover.

It is argued that Indian society wants to keep its women down and does so my controlling this aspect of their lives. It's morals are an unhealthy mixture of Brahmin and ancient Biblical from when the British ruled.

I am writing this because although you say you love this man now, if you have not a lot of experience, you will really not know what it is, what is good, what he is like and so on.

Your "love" might just be a need or a desire to be loved, touched and held. Touch you do not receive elsewhere.

I don't think that is a bad thing at all ... but I appreciate in Indian society it might be a little more difficult.

Can you get out of your family home in any way, to travel or study abroad, to work elsewhere? Perhaps you should experience being more independent first?

Again, becoming a Brahma Kumaris is a total loss of independence. For the first few years, it is a voluntary slavery where the BK center-in-charge become an alternative Father in an even stricter household where even your everything thought and word is watched as they mould you to be what they want you to be.

Re: Need your help urgently

PostPosted: 07 Oct 2013
by Pink Panther
ex-l wrote:A marriage is more than just love though. It is also a business relationship. You make a contract to invest your lives into one pot and look after each other ... you have to ask yourself whether he is the best investment.

That's why young girls are encouraged to "marry Baba" and they have these surrender ceremonies. There's a big pot to fill, and the groom does not bring any dowry! He does "promise" unlimited return on investment, but as all financial advisers say "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".

Hmm... is that why God is always talked of in the "masculine" by default ?!

With a capital "He" and a "goddess" is the variant on the 'God" standard? Any mention of Supreme Mother, or feminine qualities etc are always a footnote ... having young Kumars marry the supreme feminine will bring no dowry!? (Then again, in nearly very culture, all Gods/goddesses - masculine or feminine, no matter how powerful - seem to need much from limited, puny mortals, always needing sacrifices, donations, surrender, and all we ever get back is a reduction in misfortune that they seem to know all about )

The BKs say they ask for the girl's dowry so that they do not become a dumping ground for the un-marry-able - a kind of security deposit. I wonder if that money is refundable if they choose to leave?
Caste-ism in illegal and if you are in your adulthood, you have the law on your side to do as you think best for yourself.

Khushboo, are your parents BKs?

BKs also practice caste discrimination. They pretend they are above such "body consciousness" that discriminates according to one's birth family - but they replace that with an even greater form of 'cosmic" discrimination - all BKs are "true Brahmins", anyone and everyone who is not a BK is not a Brahmin (even thoroughbred caste born Brahmins!). Every non-BK is beneath them. They do discourage all love relationships between people and encourage all love (and romantic projection) towards the "supreme beloved' God, harnessing everything that such emotional energy provides.

Lately the BKs realise there's a huge resource going to waste by being so intolerant of human relationships and there is some acceptance of relationships between BKs - that is, again, of those in the same caste, who are expected to follow caste rules.

Clarify for yourself what your social & moral codes are, then honour yourself by maintaining the integrity of your values. Honouring others, even parents, even "God" (as you may believe "God" to be) surely cannot be True if it is dishonouring one's core (heart) values.