Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided here

The so called Brahma Kumaris "Spiritual University" is almost absolutely silent on matter relating to spiritualism, spirit worlds and siddhis etc.

Its god spirit and leaders either knows nothing about the subjects or remain silent about them. They don't like students speculating about them and, most of all, they avoid discussion which make them look uninformed.

The history of the BKWSU says that Lekhraj Kirpalani paid a huge fortune to learn some kind of hypnosis or spiritualism from a "saddhu" from Bengal. No one will say who the saddhu was or what the practise was.

Considering that Lekhraj Kirpalani had to pay for it rather than earning via his virtue or spiritual readiness, and adding that to the secrecy surrounding it, it raises my suspicions it was not a high or pure spiritual art.

And looking at the effect it had on Lekhraj Kirpalani ... consider himself to be god and acting like Krishna surrounded by his gopis for 20 years, the periods of "madness" or mental breakdown when he was reduced to scribbling on the walls of his house like a child ... it suggests he was not ready for it either.

"The history of the BKWSU says that Lekhraj Kirpalani paid a huge fortune to learn some kind of hypnosis or spiritualism from a "saddhu" from Bengal."

Well, Bengal used to be very famous for its Kala Jadoo or Black Magic but government banned practice of any such thing.

"it raises my suspicions it was not a high or pure spiritual art."

Spirituality is nowhere close to what they do. It is well planned mental game.

"consider himself to be god and acting like Krishna surrounded by his gopis for 20 years"

This is going on in many other organisations too. Leaders consider themselves as Krishna & followers become gopi & do....

Lord Krishna never took even a single pain or pleasure through his body, mind or intellect. He was indeed a Vasudev & a fully enlightened Gyani Purush.

"the periods of "madness" or mental breakdown when he was reduced to scribbling on the walls of his house like a child ... it suggests he was not ready for it either"

Yes, even I heard in one of their Murli that one day he was sitting alone, started drawing a circle but later on, he could not understand why he is making circle or how all that happens. Now see, is it omniscience? People who are enlightened can see each & every particla of Universe in their Gyan. Raising such questions defines the limit itself.

Hi 'Save Innocents'

I completely agree with you and respect you opinion that Siddhis are there only to make human being believe that something(i.e.' soul) beyond normal abilities exists. Would also like to add that if somebody uses it selflessly for good cause it will only add to the good karma of him/her and that person will get even more 'Atma bal'.

And thanks for accepting that if a person allows other soul to take control of his/her body, other soul may take possession of the same.

Now may I ask a simple question.

If I'd say that person A knows this siddhi, how would you judge that?

Please don't answer like "nowadays it is not possible" because you yourself accepted that nobody exposes this. Would also appreciate if you can put your points without making any assumption.

I look forward to seeing evidence of a supernatural siddhi like spirit possession happening to a sceptical materialist rationalist. It only seems to happen to people who are culturally conditioned to its possibility

Maybe the statement made by save innocents earlier, that it cannot happen to someone against their will, is a reflection of this? Which indicates its dependant on a certain ‘psychological” predisposition.

Is it not unlike modern scientific hypnotists who can make a person do absuurd things, or make them think they are alone in a room even when they are surrounded by a crowd of people who are right in front of them, talking and making noise etc - there are examples on Youtube (and a link in a topic here about hypnosis) .

Is this a siddhi? I’d say if someone did this 500 years ago in India they would be said to have a great siddhi, or if in Europe be called a wizard or a witch.

What is "misguided here” is the belief that any single kind of terminology / belief system/ religion explains reality satisfactorily - but that is what BKs amongst others would have us believe.

What is ironic is how each of these belief systems consider themselves superior to the others, exempt from the anthropological or psychological categories that others fit into. They’ll argue between themselves, call the other person’s religion as ”myth” but their own as ”truth", but then, when confronted by secular rationalism which puts them in the similar category, they'll unite ”ecumenically” to say that any belief in f/actuality of Deity in whatever form, even the other guy’s - whether Western monotheist or eastern polytheist or polynesian animist - is better than none (whereas in other circumstances one might kill the other!)

Yes Bhumika, I genuinely think some people here are misguided.

"Would also like to add that if somebody uses it selflessly for good cause it will only add to the good karma of him/her and that person will get even more 'Atma bal'."

Getting more 'Atmabal' is illogical. You are sitting with infinite powers within & talking about getting more. Even if you get more, is that going to make a change? Infinte + something = Infinite. Now, don't misinterpret it. In reality, there is no way by which Atmabal can increase or decrease. Physical energy of body, subtle energies of mind, speech,ego & intellect may change depending on karmas. Two chetan tattva (2 atma or soul cannot combine to form 1 soul). Their is no energy exchange either between souls.

Yes, siddhis can be used selflessly for good cause. And kind of karma parmanoos attracted depend on intentions of Siddha being. If that siddha person has attained Akarm Dasha, no karma will be bound as for him intentions itself become discharge matter. If the siddha person is still in karma dasha, then two things can happen(actually total 4 types of karmabandh can happen).

If his intentions is to cure other & remove their sufferings, then he will bind punya anubandhi punya karma.
If he cures others with intention of getting something in return, he will bind punya anubandhi paap karma.

You will be startled to know that maximum beings in 7th Narak (Hell) are the one with siddhis. They have very high spiritual state.They can control beings of other hells. That is the reason why it is said that spirituality is a very dangerous path if practiced under wrong guidance.

"other soul may take possession of the same."

Taking possession itself means to control other person. A pure sadhak(seeker) will not go after this.

"If I'd say that person A knows this siddhi, how would you judge that?"

His attributes ( + or - ) are enough to judge his achievements. Go to such siddh person & make humble request to shower his siddhi upon you, then it's upto him & his state (& yes, this is not an assumption but only way to get your work done through such siddha). If he is a person without ego, he will give you extra ordinary experiences & may even make you self realized. If the siddha person has impure ego left, then he will refrain to use his siddhi, would demand followership & atlast may destroy everything that you have achieved spiritually in countless lives on your own.

If you are asking about external symptoms of siddha person, then know that his face, body, etc remains normal just like us. He may pass by you without letting anyone know but inner passions may subside in his presence. Some aura reader tells that kind siddha people have bright aura as they can read it. But still, it is all physical. Only thing that differs from others is his inner state of soul.

"Much before 1930s, last person on Earth who became fully omniscient, told present, past & future in the way they are, were & will be was Teerthankar Lord Mahavir. He did not propagate a religion or anything else. All theories; Theory of Karma, Theory of Syadwad, Theory of Anekantwad, etc were revived by him. If you study them, you will get complete unbiased truth. After he left his last mortal body, The Knowledge propagated for hundred of years without any change. Then groups formed & religions also got established to save his teachings for future use (See BK use it till today but its OK, he gave knowledge to/for everyone).

You may say whatever you want but if you study his theories just once, they will surely create ripples in your mind.

Do you mean Mahavira, the twenty-fourth and last tirthankara of Jainism?

Funnily enough, the god of the BK did not know anything about Jainism, despite its influence on Hinduism and Buddhism, and has no place for its founders in its religious family tree.

But then, when it first came up with the idea, its God did not even know about Judaism either.

Does that not make even Western BKs start to question ... and question the BKWSU leaders for hiding it?

"Do you mean Mahavira, the twenty-fourth and last tirthankara of Jainism?"

Yes. And one important thing is that he do not belong to a particular religion (i.e., Jainism). Just telling this because it is a general misconception spread about him.

One thing is clear that if someone want to sell his product in market, first he has to criticise other available products. I mean it is not necessary to do that but that is what a shrewd person often resorts to.

The god of the BK did not know anything about Jainism. Its God did not even know about Judaism either."

Are you kidding? How is it possible? These two are such grand & ancient religions with their awesome teachings & history. How can a spiritual institute ignore the most fundamental religions?

" no place for its founders in its religious family tree."

I think it is good that they have not touched any of these religion or they would steal knowledge from these religion & label it as their product. One Hindi word describes these money makers fully : 'PAKAOO...'.

Are you kidding?

Not at all.

He also did not know about Judaism and thought that Islam and Muslim were two different religions.

It's in the original illustration of 'The Tree'.

Ask them about Taoism and Confucius etc and they don't fit into their world view either.