Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

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ex-l

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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post12 Aug 2014

kumar28061972 wrote:I understand the language what GOD is speaking to me (us), and perhaps you don't

I'll ignore your jibes and insults ... they are so typical of "divine" BKs ... but I would like to point out that you don't "understand" God is speaking to you ... you 'believe' it is god.

BKs do do "understanding". They do "acceptance". You can "understand" anything in BKism because it is all based on faith and not logic. You can only accept it as it is without argument ... or not.

You have 'accepted' it is god speaking to you, but you cannot "understand" it is god (if for no other reason that any god would surely be beyond your understanding and you have nothing to compare it against. There is no such thing as a "god-ometer").

I, personally, think your standards of acceptance are too low.

Real world evidence suggests the quality of the BK god spirit is pretty low to middling as best by classic standards of spirituality. He's and his "chosen few and dishonest, self-obsessed, unreliable, manipulative and self-agrandising and, as SI says, have stolen and modified their religion from other people's religions.

Those are the facts, therefore the BK god may well be a god spirit ... a demi-god ... but even if they exist, and he is one, he's a pretty lowly one I am afraid.
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post12 Aug 2014

Thanks ex-I for your comments and reply, I was waiting for it.

If you go through my initial posts, I was very much convinced by the facts / incidences and consequences given in this forum, and finally I decided to leave, as I was also not believing many concepts of BK teachings. I spend 3 years outside of BKs and could not fit in there also. For me, all world is like manipulative, deceiving and cheating. I cannot rely on anyone, not even on my lokiks. I cannot trust my friends. The outer world has become hopeless for me. I was fed up of the dirty talks, the selfish natures of people and the price rise, the job insecurities, the uncertainty of lives. The Mental tensions and depressive state of mind. The loneliness and many more.

I compared the NON-BK life with that of BK-Life, and found that comparatively the BK-life is much-much better and safer than the outside world, may be because of delusion but people here are very much honest and understanding. So I decided to be in the BKs.

I found a rock for myself in the big ocean full of turbulent waves where I can stay and spend my life. I don't go too much in the inner circle, but for me this life is better.

Thanks
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post12 Aug 2014

Kumar wrote:
You seems to be free guy, wasting time, but I can not prolong this idiotic debate.

I think you were here on your own, I did not ask you to join the discussion. But you are most welcome for discussing the Truth about BKWSU.
I think you are deluded with this website, and one day will come out of this, as me.

Is it necessary? Maybe by then your Satyug or Golden Age as predicted by Dadis will arrive & we all non BKs will sink in some ocean due to the wrath of the Almighty Baba.
So God bless you (whichever God you believe on). Good bye and take care

Nice one. This is one another trick. First BKs argue & say everything that is opposed to their values & then at last put on a smile & a nice quote to show that they are good beings. Still same to you & you really need to take care of yourself, we have lokiks for us but what will happen to you? No Dadi help their juniors in any way, it is all your responsibility to manage everything after you break up from family to pursue some Godly goals.

Keeping all talks aside, I would like to suggest you to review every fact related to BKWSU. Already we have so many cults in world with several of them operating in India alone. Before surrendering to anyone completely, you must test them from every possible angle. All depends on your decision, it is not going to effect others (except close relatives).
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post12 Aug 2014

kumar28061972 wrote:I spend 3 years out side of BKs and could not fit in there also. For me all world is like manipulative, deceiving and cheating. I can not rely on any body not even on my lokiks. I can not trust my Friends. The outer world has become hopeless for me. I was fed up of the dirty talks, the selfish natures of people and the price rise, the job insecurities , the uncertainty of lives. the Mental tensions and depressive state of mind. The loneliness and many more....

Yes, I completely agree with you, this is indeed the current state which we face these days. Everywhere you will get some or the other things that you mentioned. It is this hopelessness which pushes one to join a system which is better than what he get from others. You are also right about the discipline part in BK system, though they may be corrupt from inside but will not let others know about it. It is another face of this world which is more deceiving. There are people who will spit out all their dirt on you, will misbehave & will be seen doing everything that seems unethical & yes their faults will be very much supported by the likes. But they are better as you get an alarm enough to turn yourself away from them.

But what about those who hide all their negative instincts & deceive us for years or decades or even for whole life without letting us know their real intentions. BKism is one of them. You will get all good things, every moralistic projection, nice strict rules, good wishes & nice talks. But at the end, it is all fake. They do so because they want something from you. If you don't believe me, do something at the center that is against their rules & then you will get real taste of BK cult. You will leave the place in tears, I bet. They do not expect something unusual from you, so you will also get something unusual on account of your unusual behavior. [But they have tricks for such people also, they can make you blame yourself for that & will anyhow make to praise them].

Simply if there is no water outside, would you jump into an empty well? Even if 9 lakhs people jump into it, then also we should have our intellectual awareness about the end results.

I agree that it is far better than outside world but again it is an attack on your own human values which you have nurtured & developed in countless lives [if you believe in reincarnation].

Lokiks are not your enemy, they are your own. It is the same condition that they have faced everywhere & so behave in unpleasant manner. Instead of solving internal problems, detaching from them is not right. You may not need them but they may need you without expressing it externally. If BKism brings peace in family (not by leaving them), mends the broken bonds(in reality not just superfluously), gives you a vision through which you can see everyone flawless then go on. [But I bet you will get only mental peace & promises there & nothing else].
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ex-l

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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post12 Aug 2014

Kumar, you said you were in the BKs for 14 years originally, then out for 3. May I ask, approximately, how old you are?

Perhaps spending such a long time in the BKs you lost the necessary abilities to survive in the real world? I know myself, and from others experiences, that re-learning them takes some effort and experience. Were you young when you joined?
kumar28061972 wrote:I found a rock for myself in the big ocean full of turbulent waves where I can stay and spend my life. I don't go too much in the inner circle, but for me this life is better.

Religions are generally lifeboats on rough seas of life for certain individuals.

If you can, you are best off to follow Lekhraj Kirpalani example and build your own religion and invite you own chosen co-passengers and be its god but if you are not as strong as he was, then you are stuck with climbing onto someone else's lifeboat and following their rules.

Life is actually the best it has been for humanity. 100, 200, 300 years ago it was far worse. We know that from statistics. However, largely it is true that BKism removes much of the turmoil by advising against talking business, getting involved in politics, facing real difficulties, even having relationships. It's like say, "if I go into solitary confinement, no one else will bother me". Yes, that's true too. BKism is a sort of monastic order without the expense and difficult of having to run monasteries.

It's found its niche in the market place of religion and its leaders exploit it to live off the business.

They don't like or encourage individuals questioning that business.

I am happy and satisfied that we had a positive effect on you and prepared you for a better relationship with the Brahma Kumaris. You know they lie, you know their history is false. You know their god spirit's predictions never come true ... you will probably are keeping a distance and will protect yourself better.

I am in favour of retreats and ashrams, and understand why individuals seek and need them. I'd just rather ensure they were run honestly, transparently, accountably and ethically.

I, personally, cannot support the Brahma Kumaris because theirs is not and they and their god spirit make the most awful and unacceptable statements about all other gods and religions. That is not the way of high mind spirituality to me. You cannot go about breaking up families and exploiting generations of individuals over an End of the World of the world then never comes and insulting everyone else.
    Are you committed to reforming the Brahma Kumaris?

    Do you demand more honesty, transparency and accountability form them?
If the Brahma Kumaris were to sit down with their critics, accept criticism and act upon it, then perhaps they would perfect themselves far quicker than doing down doing nothing about it and ignoring it.
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post13 Aug 2014

May I ask, approximately, how old you are?
I am 43 now (unmarried), I came in Gyan at the age of 26
Perhaps spending such a long time in the BKs you lost the necessary abilities to survive in the real world? I know myself, and from others experiences, that re-learning them takes some effort and experience. Were you young when you joined?
I was vairagi, before joining the BKs, but BK boosted my vairagya and I decided to stay with them, later on I discovered few instances which discouraged me to be like them. The Gyan seems to be impractical to me.
If you can, you are best off to follow Lekhraj Kirpalani example and build your own religion and invite you own chosen co-passengers and be its god but if you are not as strong as he was, then you are stuck with climbing onto someone else's lifeboat and following their rules.
No body is compelling me for anything, I a independent and earning my livelihood, but yes, following BK practice keep me safe, secure and happy. I have to adjust with outsiders at many occasions but its OK
It's found its niche in the market place of religion and its leaders exploit it to live off the business.
They don't like or encourage individuals questioning that business.

I don’t think too much about it, I m concerned with my own life first.
I am happy and satisfied that we had a positive effect on you and prepared you for a better relationship with the Brahma Kumaris. You know they lie, you know their history is false. You know their god spirit's predictions never come true ... you will probably are keeping a distance and will protect yourself better.
Yes, I am keeping myself on the safer side. If they can play yukti, I too can. If they discourage me to help others who are more needy than them, I do not hesitate and think over it, but I straight away help the real needy person irrespective to BK/ NoN-BK, I follow my conscious and common sense. As “Baba” says you have to be yukti yukt, then why not apply it for ourselves.
I am in favour of retreats and ashrams, and understand why individuals seek and need them. I'd just rather ensure they were run honestly, transparently, accountably and ethically.

I am happy that you unlike other anti groups, you are not totally against the system, but only ask for its refinement. I really appreciate your wisdom and appreciate your efforts.
I, personally, cannot support the Brahma Kumaris because theirs is not and they and their god spirit make the most awful and unacceptable statements about all other gods and religions. That is not the way of high mind spirituality to me. You cannot go about breaking up families and exploiting generations of individuals over an End of the World of the world then never comes and insulting everyone else.
For me, I am using this boat for my personal safety and betterment. At the same time I can not reject other religions.
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ex-l

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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post13 Aug 2014

It seems you have a more healthy, mature relationship with the BKs in which you have not surrendered yourself mindlessly to them. Indeed, if you were a vairagi before, then joining the BKs is actually a step back towards re-joining the material world. I presume being a vairagi made you more sensitive to atmospheres and weakened the muscles you need to fight to survive in the real world. Perhaps your nature does not want to have to fight. I can understand that.

One learns the lessons of life and can do good wherever one is. I cannot teach the ways of the world as I am not a master of them. Like you, I don't particularly want to have to become a master of this world the way it is. I had hoped BKism was a better way but was disappointed by its level and direction.

I was inspire to do what I am doing to change the "Kings of BKism" in the hope of changing the "kingdom" of BKism so its servants and slaves might have better lives. I would like to free the servants and slave and see them turned them into equal citizens with rights.

The lustful, arrogant and stupid "Kings of BKism", and their malicious soldiers, cannot understand that. All they can think is that I must be anti-them and, like corrupt politicians, they manipulate the minds of their servants and slaves to think I am bad. I am not "anti-them", I am anti-abuse, exploitation, inequality and so on.

Of course, spiritually uplifting the BK servants and slave would topple their towers and they too, the Kings of BKism would have to go back to being just citizens too and behave in a more ethical manner towards other spiritual equals.

One could quite rightly go into the BKs not to take but to serve, not to assist them in their wrong actions but to help re-direct and uplift them. By doing so, you would stop them harming many others.

That is what I am doing. I wish I did not need to. I wish I could go and live a better life but that is that I am doing.

Many BKs are deluded to think they are serving humanity when they are actually serving themselves either directly, for food and money, or egotistically.

I think it is fair to think of the BKWSU like the mental hospital it says it is.

In a mental hospital, there are many people who think they are doctors but actually they are mental patients. There are also many people who think they are God, angels, world leaders and so on. But obviously they are suffering from delusions.

Who are the doctors and who are the patients in BKism? For example, I would say Dadi Janki is actually a highly deluded patient causing many others to suffer.

Delusion and clairvoyance (clear seeing) are the same wherever you find them. There is a universal level of spiritual principles far above BKism which still applies down to BKism. BKism is really not that high a spiritual path yet. They think they are advanced but really they are only still at the foundations.

My thought is this ...

The one thing BKism taught me is that I don't want to be a guru, a leader, king or emperor as the BKs ridiculously believe they are becoming. Having "followers" might be wonderful for your ego - and put bread and butter on your table - but it sucks. For me, everyone from the Dadi Jankis of the BK world down to the mini-me center-in-charge gurus are even more trapped by the world and Maya than ordinary people.

But if they want to be Kings, let them ... just try and effect them so that they become slightly better kings and treat their subjects more enlighten manner.

As a vairagi, you will know that to want to be a king or emperor, to aim to become one, even to become a demi-god is that not that high ambition. I would say it's not worth working towards.

Do you really "want a kingdom"? If not how do you see yourself fitting into the BK world now?
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post13 Aug 2014

Do you really "want a kingdom"? If not how do you see yourself fitting into the BK world now?

I wish to conquer the world


I wish to conquer the world
I wish to conquer,
all frustration of life.
i wish to conquer,
all delusion of life
I wish to conquer,
all evils of life
I wish to conquer,
all anti life element
Yes !
I WISH TO CONQUER THE WORLD
to establish love, peace and prosperity
When the life will be
free from all troubles
I shall think
I have conquered the world
Then,
I shall bow my head
to the new prosperous world,
Then,
the glory of this world
will enlighten the universe
No one will have to think
for bread, cloth and roof
So I do wish

--------
I HAVE TO CROSS THE GREAT OCEAN

I have to cross the great ocean
with my little boat
which has thousand holes
how to cross the great ocean

The waves of the ocean are too high
than that of height of mount Everest
thousand Tsunamis are yet to come
please tell my friend
how to cross the great ocean

The little boat gifted to me by my Lord
I do not find another boat
due to my carelessness, there are thousand holes
no mechanics can repair it
but i have to cross the great ocean
please tell my friend
how to cross the great ocean
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ex-l

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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post13 Aug 2014

Are those traditional devotional songs?

You make me think that given the amount of influence such songs, especially those used in old Bollywood movies had upon the BKs, we Westerners missed out because to us they were just noise.

In response, the Western BKs have influenced BKism by bringing in abstract atmospheric music with no words or meaning.

Are you just a passenger in the BK ship seeing where it takes you, or a crew member?
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post13 Aug 2014

dear ex-I,
i really respect you seek and gained from you in several aspects, but it seems that you refuse to understand a person who support BKs even a little bit. For you he is like a criminal who belongs to any group of criminals.

As i said to you, i just want to cross the great ocean, can you tell me how i can...? And those were not songs of any bollywood films and not i have used to influence you. But just to seek your wish, as i think that you understand people better.
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ex-l

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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post13 Aug 2014

So those were you own poems?

There is no ocean to cross, there is nothing on the other side. Whatever is there is here and now is all that there is and, like a garden, it requires our attention.

Life is hugely random and we are just tiny insects amongst it. We arose from the dirt and we will return to the dirt. Just be happy with that and work within however you think is best. The best way to deal with anyone or anything that who things they are a god is to say, "show me ... show yourself ... prove it". If they cannot, do not want to, make demands in advance upon you first ... ignore them.

Yes, it is true ... in a criminal organisation, even someone that just rolls chapatis and sweep the building is supporting the criminal activity and leaders. I choose not to. My life would probably be more comfortable if I accepted their shelter, cooperated with them, met their demands ... and, most of all, did not think too much or question them.

But I choose not to because what they are doing is wrong.

If they threw away all the failed philosophy and just focused on running open retreat centres for everyone and targeted the poor and disadvantages, instead of the rich and famous or middle classes ... then OK. But they are not.

Perhaps soon they will give up on their philosophy again. Perhaps in 2036 when heaven one Earth fails to arrive. Perhaps sooner as they realise it won't. Perhaps they will become a true charity eventually ... who knows.

It's all been said before ... (loose translation).
In the Tao Te Ching, the sages wrote:Give up perfection, renounce wisdom,
And it will be a hundred times better for everyone.

Give up kindness, renounce morality,
And people will rediscover natural devotion and love.

Give up shrewdness, renounce profit,
And robbers and thieves will disappear.

These three are only examples, they are not sufficient alone.

It is more important
To see the simplicity,
To realize your true nature,
To cast off selfishness
And temper desire.
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post14 Aug 2014

Those who want to conquer the world, better conquer all of your weaknesses. Inner anger, pride, greed must be conquered.

Those who are running to conquer the world are bigger fools, if one goes & see their internal relations within family members one can easily know that they have not conquered even one of them. "Charity begins at home", so first win their hearts & then talk about winning whole world. And yes there is no meaning in conquering world. :D

If the little boat already has thousand holes & if you are in it, that too in the ocean, then it is actually sinking. Wake up, learn to swim, boat will not help too much.
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post14 Aug 2014

SI - tum dimag se paidal lagte ho... tumko kya jawab dena... tumko jara bhi poetic sense nahi hai... yaha time pass karne aye ho... Gyan me to chal nahi sake to ye forum par hi hath ajmane ki soch rahe ho.. samne ane se dartete ho isliye nam badal kar jo bakwas karni hai kar sakte ho... tumse kya bat karni hai.. kayar ho tum...Mai ex-I se bat kar raha hu aur tumko koi reply bhi nahi deta hu fir bhi tum bich me apni nak ghusedne chale a rahe ho....

meri poem ko 10 bar padho to shayad dimag me ek line ghusegi bhais ki buddhi lag rahi hai...ab tum kitna bhi jawab doge to bhi mai jawab nahi dene wala kuki Baba ne hame sikhaya hai ki Shudra bhuddhi walo se kinara karna accha hai. Aur tumhari bhasa me kahu to bhais ke aage been bajane se koi faida nahi hota...
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post15 Aug 2014

SI - tum dimag se paidal lagte ho... tumko kya jawab dena... tumko jara bhi poetic sense nahi hai... yaha time pass karne aye ho... Gyan me to chal nahi sake to ye forum par hi hath ajmane ki soch rahe ho.. samne ane se dartete ho isliye nam badal kar ...

Thanks for your compliments but remember it is an open discussion not limited to just one person. And better write it in English so that everyone can understand it or should i translate it for everyone. Anyone? The whole post itself suggest how elevated you are in your spiritual domain. Well that is not unusual, it is expected from a BK follower. Well done.
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Re: Hi, I joined BK 3 months back.

Post15 Aug 2014

The whole post itself suggest how elevated you are in your spiritual domain. Well that is not unusual, it is expected from a BK follower. Well done.

What you thought of a BK follower, he will politely catch your sh** and keep smiling, because he is a BK, and you are testing his tolerance power ...?

Hamesha yad rakhna Sau sunar ki hoti hai ek lohar ki hoti hai
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