I am a new recruit of the BKs

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all4ONE

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I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post02 Dec 2014

I am a new recruit of the BK's, having just returned from a five day retreat over Thanksgiving weekend. My husband says I've changed and he wants me back. He has shown me these websites and the support around cult activity. I wanted to start my own discussion thread, but I cannot seem to find the right avenue to begin one! Any response or thoughts around a newer BK membership is much appreciated. Should I go see a therapist? :)
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Pink Panther

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post02 Dec 2014

HI All4ONE

Please tell us a little more about yourself - which city or country you are in (Thanksgiving ... USA?), are you from Indian background?

Anyone can benefit from a therapist, even if they have no specific issues, but if you can share something about yourself, your age, profession, family situation, reasons, for finding BKs attractive, feelings about life generally, we may be able to suggest if there’s an appropriate direction based on our experiences.
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ex-l

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post02 Dec 2014

Hi All4,

How do you define "new recruit of the BK's"? Have you just done this 5 day retreat, or have the you done the full initiation? In the old days it was called the 7 Days Course, now they tend to split it over two or more course to doing the 'soft sell' number.

I doubt you specifically need a therapist because of your BK experience ... but what we can tell you here is what the BKs' ultimate agenda is, how they work, and the effect of being enculted upon your relationship ... which would be to end it.

Pretty much all of us here were "teachers" or recruiters in the past, we know the game ... perhaps even better than most recent BKs themselves. We are not selling anything or any belief, we have no interest in sustaining the illusion.

The Brahma Kumaris are subtly manipulative. They are initiating you into a relationship with a spirit being they claim to be the god of all religions, over which they have a unique monopoly. If you are susceptible to the process and practise it can be highly addictive and lead you - in real terms - to cutting all relationships with non-BKs regardless of what they might be telling you right now.

It's no simply a passive meditative or contemplative practise. The meditation and contemplations are means to an end ... the end being a total surrender of your mind, body, wealthy, and if they can get their hands on it all your property and assets, to the BK leadership acting as proxies for their "god spirit". They will gradually seek to divide you from your partner and change your relationship from one of being equals, to one of "service" in which you partner will increasing be portrayed to you as impure, un-selfrealised and, ultimately, an obstacle.

If that's what you really believe and where you want to go ... the BKs are the right place for you.

BTW, it's BKs, not "BK's" ... BKs is the plural form (Brahma Kumaris). BK's means, "belonging to BK" (a possessive form).

I know that last comment will appear a little anal or OCD, but I pick up on as it is a bad habit of the BKs and it suggests to me that perhaps you have had quite a bit of exposure to them already.

Do you know what the core teachings of the BKs really are yet, or are you just on the fuzzy New Agey outside?

Thank you.
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all4ONE

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post02 Dec 2014

Hi there,
Yes, I have taken the introductory course, about a year and eight months ago. Since taking the course, I continued listening to the daily Murlis via Dropbox and then recently began attending the morning Murli class again. I do value the teaching of being a soul and I kind of like the the world cycles part too. The part about the medium, and the spirit of Baba entering a human being at a certain time in a certain place is odd to me, of course. I am interested in the teachings for the healing properties that meditation can have and for the connection to a higher source in meditation. I am not at all interested in joining a cult, but rather in rounding out my experience which is currently quite heavily mundane; school, work, money, etc. Do you find anything of value from the BK experience? Thank you.
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ex-l

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post02 Dec 2014

I am sorry to appear pedantic again, but is there any really good evidence to prove that Brahma Kumari meditation is healing ... and, more specifically, as healing or more healing than specific meditations or practises designed for healing, e.g. diet and exercise, spiritual healing, Qi Gong, hatha Yoga etc? Have there been any comparative studies made?

Do I find anything of value from the BK experience? No, none whatsoever ... because of it's primary motivations which I would define as a) reaping wealth, b) the social climbing of its leaders, and c) the crazy mish mash of wishing the annihilation of 7 billion human beings and aspiring to a high status in some promised heavenly world.

I don't know which version of the Murlis they offer via Dropbox these days but we are conscious that they've watered the teachings down considerably from their original state and so you may not have been receiving the real deal. In short, you may be being duped about what they are really all about.

OK, if I am to be fair, I will admit getting up early everyday is actually a very healthy and productive habit. One that is shared by most successful individuals ... but, there again, I think the BKs waste it and other the other resources of their followers in this 'mega-death wish' PR campaign they are involved in, rather than using it to truly serve humanity. Or even themselves, e.g. in business.

I have nothing against meditation, contemplation, ashrams and retreats etc ... I think they are good things ... I just think the Brahma Kumaris somewhat usurp good universal principles and teachings and then misdirect adherent's efforts (mostly to their own, the leaders, benefit).

At a local centre level in the West this is not so obvious. If you are interested, I can tell you how their business model works. But overall, especially in India, it is fairly accurate representation.

Within context, it's worth remember more than three-quarters of 1.2 billion Indian's eat less than the minimum targets set by the government and that 1 in 3 malnourished children in the world is from India; 2.1 million dying before the age of 5 every year. By comparison, in India the Brahma Kumaris are extremely comfortable and known to be a rich religion that spend much of its wealth on its own grandiose self-gratification and promotion.

Therefore ... paradoxical to your intentions I am sure ... I would say they are actually promoting a sort of caste-ist self-centredness, inequality and insensitivity to the suffering of others. Basically, the worst elements of traditional Brahminism, with little to none of its best (commitment to learning).

Personally, I find deception, dishonesty and manipulation absolutely antithetic to truth, goodness and spirituality.

Unfortunately, over years of research and study that has unearthed original documents going right back to their beginning and many very serious internal and covered up controversies, what we have found time and time again is that they are committed to the former ... not the latter.

I would say the majority of BKs followers start off with good intentions but are gradually misled by the Brahma Kumari leadership to give up truth, goodness and spirituality and become like them, committing their time, money and lives to the same activities of self-promotion and self-service.

A sizeable minority of BKs followers across the board are vulnerable individuals who are being exploited rather than helped.

Knowing what I know, I could under any conditions encourage individuals to unite their minds with the god spirit who or whatever it might be. And if it is not clear to you that is what they are encouraging you to do, rather then unite your mind with your concept of what "God" or good might be ... then I think you need to serious consider what they are doing to you.

At best, BKism is about "earning a high status" before the allegedly imminent End of the World, a nuclear holocaust they will inspire. All the rest is just cover up and marketing. At worst, it's just a money making racket to keep in comfort an inner circle of unskilled, uneducated elders without any other sources of income. Which do you reckon is better?

Have you never committed to the full 4am in the morning and going to daily class routine, nor gone to meet Baba in India?
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all4ONE

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post03 Dec 2014

Thank you for that long response. I can see that there are a bunch of different aspects to the cult, but for me, landing on one side or the other is still a long ways off. I did make an "intention" of sorts at the retreat center, Anubhuti in Novato, CA, to begin meditating and coming to class every morning. For me, it is a good routine, and it centers me mentally and spiritually for my day. My other intention is to shift some of my focus from the material aspirations I have of wealth, health, success, to more spiritual successes. For these reasons I see the appeal of the BK practice as a practice. Now, I can see where the deeper you go into it the more weird and creepy the teachings are. So I have a couple of questions for you. I know that you said it is fine to have an experience of "God" whatever that means to you, and in fact I think it is essential for a person's happiness to have a connection with a Higher Being, other than just the Self. My question is, did you at any time, or do you now believe that there is a God Shiva and that this spirit entered the body of Brahma Baba, or of Dadi Janki or others? Is it possible we are dealing with a genuine spirit world here, like the mediums that were talked of in the Bible? (I grew up Christian). It is clear to me that the BKs I met at the retreat had a genuine experience of God that was real to them. My second question is, what do you mean by the addictive quality of the practice? I have always felt the term "addiction" gets applied too freely, sometimes to things like exercise, clean water, etc. that are actually healthy. So in what way is meditation addictive, except that it creates a feeling of peace and mental clarity?
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Pink Panther

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post03 Dec 2014

All4One - I only have time for a quick reply for my part and look forward to following your and ex-l’s conversation :

Just wanted to say that what many BKs do is unconsciously project their ”god” idea/ideal onto the BK framework and never look closely to see that there is actually quite a mismatch. If one looks objectively at what they actually believe, what is actually going on in the organsiation, what is actually said in the teachings rather than just letting it wash over you - it can be seen that ‘BKism' actually goes against the individual’s idea, so what happens is that expend a lot of energy rationalising and justifying the contradictions.

As ex-l said, the 1% Western BKs, present a totally different face to the world than what the 99% BKism is about (i.e. in India), especially, I can imagine, in California!

You'd know of the Occupy movement, the ”we are the 99%” idea?

Well, your experience of BKs is like a foreigner who has spent a week or two at a 1 percenter’s place, say, a celebrity’s mansion in Beverley Hills, returned home and signed up to receive newsletters to stay in touch and so thinks they have experienced America and know how Americans live!! (I travelled to and in India as a BK too many times to mention - it is verrrrrry different).

If you take benefit from the routines, there are many groups that practice early morning disciplines, many in a more balanced way than BKs, eg that may include physical, mental and spiritual practices. If you are are the kind of person that needs a group for the motivation, try out other groups which are less ”binding”. You will feel more balanced.

For myself, for the last number of years I’ve been practicing a certain Ch’an (Zen) Buddhist tradition which I find harmonises all parts for me, unifying body-mind as one through physical, philosophical and meditative practice, both sitting or in any moment; rather than the dualistic split inherent in BK teachings where the practice is to shut off one part and enhance the other (which can feel good if correcting a previous imbalance the other way, but then the pendulum swings too far...).

And, to answer your question, although it hurts to say it, yes, I did believe the whole God/Brahma/BapDada thing.
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ex-l

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post03 Dec 2014

[quote="Pink Panther"]As ex-l said, the 1% Western BKs, present a totally different face to the world than what the 99% BKism is about (i.e. in India), especially, I can imagine, in California!/quote]
... especially if you have money or connections they think are useful.

Please allow me to offer a brief overview.

Firstly, however, I think Pink hit the nail on the head as far as 'concept of god' goes. Don't fool yourself by thinking your concept of god and theirs in the same, or that their's is in anyway negotiable or open to interpretation. It's not. To them, their concept is correct, everyone else's is wrong. God entered Lekhraj Kirpalani, god speaks through Lekhraj Kirpalani alone ... indeed, what we found out decades later, is that for them, for decades, Lekhraj Kirpalani was God. Or, as they said at the time, "superior to god". You may not believe this but it is written exactly like that, "god" in that case meaning the universal light or principle I would guess you, I and most spiritual people would think of as "god". God, to them, is that spook who enters the little old lady in India on schedule.

In India, especially if you are poor, and in the West to begin with, the Brahma Kumaris had a very rigid form. You did the 7 Days Course which taught you the concepts of "The Knowledge™". You either surrendered or you did not. You are, or were, either 'in' or 'out' (had 100% faith and followed the principles, or not) ... and if you fell 'out' after you were 'in' you were pretty much outcaste, a "failure" or a "traitor" ... "lower than the lowest of the low" to use the exact language.

It was a lot more 'cultic' than it is now, and it was finally realised by the leaders that it was an uneconomical model in the West because it demanded to much of adherents and too difficult sustainable largely because it was culturally too much for Westerners to adopt to. Hence, over the years, they developed a softer approach that allow people to "take what they wanted to" or "take what is useful to them" and adopted a non-challenging approach to people's own "Maya", i.e. incorrect - by their terms - ideas. For example, working the interfaith networks they would adopt vague, non-challenging positions, using vague references to their god leading people to believe the BK god was the same as their god and vice versa.

Particularly in the USA, we saw the development of their acceptance of property and wealth for use as/in centers from individuals who did not 100% follow the principles ... something that was impossible to conceive of originally (their principle then was that money from non-followers was as impure as the food they made and that neither could be digested). They learned to compromise for the sake of wealth. They discover, particularly in the USA, that money, wealthy and paying for things occupied a very different position from in Brahmanic India or even 'Old World' England where they started.

And what have they ever done with their financial and human resources? Apart acquiring from comfortable centers and retreats for themselves, and establishing themselves socially, how have they spent all that money?

You might ask, "what is wrong with that? If that is what they want to do, it is their right and who am I to question them? And the answer is, "fair enough" ... however, it also defines their spiritual level, what they are about and opens a door to their modus operandi.

For example, one key that opened a door for me was discovering in 1974/75 ... when the Brahma Kumaris were predicting the End of the World in 1976 ... they bought the freehold mortgage of their first property under the guidance of allegedly "One of the Top 8 Souls in Humanity" Dadi Janki Kirpalani. It took me over decades to unlock that door and work out, "how could they do so? ... how and why would they start paying for a mortgage when the World was going to end in a year or two's time?".

The answer was, and still is, their god spirit had given numerous failed predictions of the End of the World --- each time at which adherents filled their coffers with donations including properties --- and after which the inner circle covered up and hide from newcomers. In my time, the End of the World was 1986 ... then 1986 to 1996 ... then they had a big buzz around Y2K (2000) - I am guessing before you even become involved? - and so on.

1,000s of people were encouraged in a kind of madness - based on a knowing dishonesty - to give over their money, property, free labor and other wealth (e.g. in India jewellery is many women's only security and pension plan, and they take it from them; just as they do the dowries of young girls).

What this key unlocked for me was the realisation that they have separated "spirituality" from morals or ethics. (Or rather, perhaps they never connected the two in the first place as the leader and core group were not from educated/religious backgrounds where such concepts would be common, but rather a fairly tricky/dubious lower merchant castes).

The BKs use the word "values" but it applies in more of a marketing manner ... e.g. "extra added marketing value" ... and, hence, over the years - particularly in the West where their 'old school' marketing did not work - they have developed numerous appealing facades and quasi-businesses as promotional schemes. If challenged over this view, we could probably sit you down and take you through their evolution step by step; from demanding Westerners' thoughts about Krishna and the Trimurti were "reformed" and that they become "pure" - subjects they never had thoughts about in the first place to reform! - (meaning like submissive Hindus), to selling their methodology to McDonalds, GE and others in the "Fortune 500".

Part of this facade is an 'apparent' tolerance of subjective views of their beliefs ... which, at the core of the religion, just does not exist. They may allow you believe they tolerate or accept your views and beliefs ... but, in truth, they don't. They are just demonstrating a similar patience as one might do with an infant learning basic arithmetic. Your views being somewhere between absolutely wrong and infantile.

For me, you cannot divorce spirituality from morals and ethics. One's spirituality *is* one's moral and ethical standing. Hence, it became far more clear to me that the Brahma Kumaris were not dealing in spirituality ... but psychicism.

With the kind of clever word play much of their form is based upon, they confused 'spiritualism' - defined as 'congress with spirit entities' and other weird and wonderful phenomena, e.g. channelling, trance, hypnosis etc - with what you or I would call 'spirituality'.

At core, the Brahma Kumaris are a spiritualist religion based on beliefs in spirit possession, mediumship, what is known as "overshadowing" (by other spirits) and so on. And, of course, since around 1956, they claim that their chief spirit is actually the God of all religions who speaks solely and uniquely to them and through their medium. (All other religions are wrong, all other religious founders were deluded when they thought God spoke to them, all other religions are wrong when they believe their path can lead to enlightenment and liberation etc etc etc).

Did I ever really believe in all that?

That's a good question.

At the time I was a follower I would have insisted I did so 100% ... because stating such a faith was a prerequisite requirement to access facilities and rewarded in a mostly child-like manner by the leaders.

Now, I don't believe I ever did. I remember my feelings at the time, I remember certain things I did, I've grown up a lot and practised introspection, I shared with other ex-BKs and other ex-cult members ... and my conclusion is that at the time I was not "in reality". I was literally spaced out and in some other bubble-like existence.

Indeed, I think now that I was already in a kind of unreal state when I first encountered the BKs and that the BKs only encouraged me to go much further into an absolutely unreal state --- believing things to be true that ABSOLUTELY were not --- in order to exploit me.

And, to cut back to where I started, what they have learned in the decades they have experimented on Westerners ... is that is it better to get 10% ... 20% ... 30% of someone than try and get 100% (as they did in my day and still do in India) but then lose them. Indeed, for the BKs, everything they get for free is a profit. Even one introduction might win them a fortune or act as a defence for them.

As far as the "addiction" comment ... it depends if you have ever been through the "Honeymoon Phase" or not. The "Honeymoon Phase" is definitely like being on drugs, or most powerfully "falling in love" - if you know what that feels like.

OK, this is a long reply but as much as I can afford to do so today. I hope it helps you and opens doors through which you can pass, and raises other questions for you.

One question for you from me ... "Can one build an Age of Truth (Sat Yug) out of lies?".
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all4ONE

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post03 Dec 2014

Hi ex-I and Pink Panther,

I appreciate your sober look at this organization and can definitely identify many of the points you are making. Yes, I can see how California is going to be quite a different feel from India. At the retreat center at Anubhuti, it was all very nice accommodations, in tune with the natural surroundings, and on the edge of a wildlife preserve and of the very wealthy neighborhood of Bel Marin Keys. I can also understand what you mean about being in an "un-real" state of mind, and how this fantasy can in fact be very addicting, along the lines of television addiction, or maybe video games or other types of fantasy. I also know what you mean about the wishful thinking of putting one's own idea of God and making it fit what the BKs are preaching. I think my justification of it all is that it is all metaphor, and not meant to be taken literally; for example, your question about the Sat Yug, the Age of Truth ... clearly, that cannot be built upon lies, and while I would hate to admit that such apparently well-intentioned, intelligent, truthful human beings could actually be self-deceived, it does seem rather bizarre that a person like Brahma Baba could in fact be the mouthpiece of a God that up until now chose not to reveal itself ...

But the REAL KICKER is the transmission I witnessed this past Sunday morning from about five thirty am until about eight am ... of the giant Diamond Hall in Madhuban, filled with white-clad devotees (yes, they are, no matter how much they defame the so-called paths of devotion) awaiting a vision of ... what? Dadi Gulzar is truly entered by a spirit that is then speaking through her? As you say, the closest thing to this that I know of is spiritualism, but is far spookier than I could have imagined. If I do imagine that some entity is entering her being and using her facial muscles, that is even creepier, and the only association I have with that kind of thing is of demonic spirits not benevolent ones. I remember sitting next to one "Sister" while watching the transmission who was gently probing my level of interest, and saying, "have you been to Madhuban?" I actually made a disgusted face and shook my head. She then held my gaze, and asked, "Do you want to go to Madhuban?" I expressed with my eyes my total, utter bewilderment with what I was watching, and said, "I don't know". Then afterwards, she asked if it was overwhelming. I held my tongue from saying that it was just creepy. Later, in the car ride home, my local instructor asked me if I was interested in going to Madhuban, and I told her it would just depend on what evolved in my mind and heart over the following months, and that at the moment it seemed very scary. It was really all I could do to avoid asking someone if they did not find this all a bit creepy, but I just reserved that for later ... it wasn't until my husband researched the BKs ONLINE that he became very concerned for my welfare and challenged me to look into it myself.

But I can certainly believe that the atmosphere in India is different from here. I did notice how many Indian women were at the retreat and just how subservient they seemed to be, as opposed to how independent I wanted to be and basically free from the servitude and general attitude of obedience that they espouse. Cooperation and obedience are high virtues for them culturally, so I guess it comes easily to them.
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all4ONE

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post03 Dec 2014

I forgot to add that I never did experience a Honeymoon phase, maybe in part because of the "soft sell" approach that Sister Kiran in Eugene gives ... four classes spaced a week or more apart, but actually it is a three part course, so I took it over a few months. Like I said, I listened to the Murlis that she uploaded from her daily class on my own, "incognito", as it were, and then when she went to Madhuban, she stopped uploading them and I wasn't getting any new ones, and I realized that I missed it, so I started going to the class again ... but that's about it. I never had any kind of a high from it ... like I said, I only wanted a simple practice of meditation that would incorporate several elements: peace in the soul, a connection with a Higher Being, and a set of ethics that I would ascribe to.

I have a friend who turned me on to them who actually stopped going to classes because of the Shrimat that she thought was too much, especially the part about eating meat. I have actually been anemic in my life, so I don't know that it would be healthy for me to avoid eating meat ... but perhaps. I think that what it comes down to is an unfortunate delusion that a person can become pure in this, the Iron Age (which, by the way, I do resonate with) when in fact we are going to be impure at some level no matter what kind of Shrimat we follow, or the amount of union we find with God. I think that I want to be able to make the effort without the expectation of the "elevated status" and so forth. I think the reward is in the effort ... to be peaceful, to be kind, to be connected to God.
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Pink Panther

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post04 Dec 2014

all4ONE,

You may remember I mentioned the split that is implicit in BK teachings. ex-l expressed one manifestation of that - his ”bubble-like” state of mind that both believed and didn’t believe the core aspects of BK teachings at the same time.

It is looking but not seeing, listening but not hearing, rationalising enough to satisfy a desire rather than the demands of true rationality.

This is known as cognitive dissonance, an ability some may argue has evolutionary benefit and which we humans struggle with all the time. One example is battered wives who stay with their abuser, preferring to believe in their hope for a better tomorrow than the evidence of the past, another is the way people justify all kinds of behaviours to themselves even though they know it is not the best choice - habits and addictions like overeating, smoking, staying in a job where one knows they are not happy or exploited but telling one’s self that its for the best etc.

This cognitive dissonance is particularly strong where group identity is involved - whether family, religion, community, political - we all root for the home ‘team' (to borrow an americanism) and forgive them sins we would not forgive other 'teams’.

Something happens in BK circles where many people (including long term BKs) have doubtful reactions to what they are experiencing, like you did with the creepy feeling you got watching Gulzar channeling whatever it is that says "I am God” trance. What that something is is the social coercion, desire for acceptance and to be liked, which sees us respond with reactions to the group values we think they’d like to hear. In your case, you attenuated your real response (creepy) to one acceptable to the immediate group’s values that left you some wriggle room but didn’t offend.

You are lucky you haven’t gone further down the road of further self-compromise for the sake of group acceptance and the sake of sustaining what you project onto them hoping that it will fulfill your spiritual needs, if only you can unlock the riddle of what you like about it versus what you dislike about them, to become one of them.

Because faith and acceptance can seem much easier, a form of release from responsibility.
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ex-l

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post04 Dec 2014

I have a different reply I was going to post but I think I'd like to respond at this point to two things:

Firstly, All4One, it sounds like from what you are saying, they are enculting individuals without telling the whole of The Knowledge™ now. You write, "introductory course" and appear to say it was only 4 days. That would be about half of the old course, a training manual of which is published in full, here.

Did they tell you about the 5,000 Year Cycle of time, Destruction, The Tree of Humanity, God entering Lekhraj Kirpalani etc?

From that, I am also presuming the "Murlis" you are being given are merely the later "Avyakt Murlis", which are the more general, new agey ones, and are whitewashed, because if you were being given the old "Sakar Murlis", you'd be wondering "WTF" they were all about ... they are steep in Hinduism (and laced with extremely bigoted and patronistic references).

I know they did split the traditional 7 Day Course into bits because it was just too much for Westerners and the introduction bit was just to simple ideas like the soul, god as light, and mediation etc.

Can you clarify?

In reply to Pink Panther above ... this "bubble" like split and how they achieve it is something that interests me. I don't "know", I don't have a fixed concept of how ... but I am thinking it is achieve through, yes, the gradual social pressure (love bombing/frog cooking) but also by inducing some kinds of mental trauma.

Here's a bottomline, All4One ...
    Are you ready to accept dinosaurs existed 2,500 years ago and were the product of radiation escaping at the decline of a heavenly but nuclear powered civilisation that existed between 500 years BC and 2,500 years BC?

    Do you go along with the idea that "giving courage to the scientists" to use the nuclear arsenal to "purify" the world of 7 billion members of an "impure and vicious" humanity so the Brahma Kumaris can inherit and rule the world by an undemocratic divine decree for 2,500 years?

    Are you ready to accept children being born today are "Scorpions and snakes" and to be avoided and as spiritually worthless as "flies on a dungheap" that are born and die within a day?
If not ... the Brahma Kumaris and Brahma Kumarism is not for you.

Those are *EXACTLY* what they are about ... and the deeper you go into, the more you will realise that that is *EXACTLY* what they teach and believe without question ... to question is not just severely discouraged, it is futile because they and their god is right, any other views are Maya or delusion.

Now, the hypnotic meditation is being used to induce a 'light trance' state within you that a) makes your mind susceptible to their suggestion, and b) (arguably) opens you up psychically to "overshadowing" to either their disincarnate beings - if you accept the spiritualist model of understanding; or to their "group spirit" - if you accept the collective conscious/egregore model of understanding.

Again, the spiritualist model is *EXACTLY* what their teachings teach. You as a BK will be psychically used by their god spirit and other deceased members to carry out their agenda ... which is the destruction of an impure humanity and, allegedly, the creation of a heavenly paradise exclusively for Brahma Kumaris starting in 2036.

If you think that sounds a little whacko ... now is the time to bail out and go and find a different path.

I also wanted to note that it is interesting you say their retreat is in an upmarket (upscale?) area. They do exactly the same thing in India, near a wealthy part of Bombay.

What might be interesting for you is to start asking questions to the teachers which will peel away the layers of their facade and start to expose not just their real beliefs but also their reaction to having their facade peeled away.

If you are interested in doing so, we could suggest a few questions ...
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mehak ahuja

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post16 Dec 2014

Hello ..BK family..
Em a newcomer..influenced from peace of mind...
I practice RajYoga as per steps mentioned on net..
i have 1query ??
Everytime i do RajYoga different i get from my inner soul..wen i ask ques like Who am i ?
Where did i come from ??

How can we get multiple ans everytime for same ques...
Ez there z ny mistake in my RajYoga ?? Or its natural...do tell plzz
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Pink Panther

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post17 Dec 2014

Mehak Ahuja,

The simple answer to your question is: you are what you think you are. The trick is to match that subjective thought against objective reality.

The problem is if I ask "who am I” then I create an endless loop, or an almost impossible conundrum.

They say a tooth cannot bite itself and an eye cannot see itself. The chinese Buddhist tradition says that such a question is like trying to put another head on top of your head, and that any definite answer must be in error because the ”I” after asking the question is a different ”I” to the one you were before thinking of the question. And any thought that appears to be an answer makes another change.

Hence, it’s better to forget all the affirmational suggestions you get from BK meditation teachings and all the unnecessary definitions and endless ”points of knowledge’ - they are distractions and diversions that lead you to a depoendency on a word-based dogma.

Go into silence and feel the space beyondwords that is there when you (”I”) get out of your own way, when you stop playing with yourself.

That is, to sit and ask ”who am I” , or to tell yourself who you are, or who you should be, that is like talking about dancing rather than dancing.
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Mr Green

ex-BK

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Re: I am a new recruit of the BKs

Post17 Dec 2014

there is no answer

the disturbance is in the pondering of the unknowable

these things are good to think about occasionally

better to live your time in full
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