Islam and BK

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Islam and BK

Post10 Feb 2015

Are BKs compatible with Islam?
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quantum

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Re: Islam and BK

Post10 Feb 2015

No.
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ex-l

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Re: Islam and BK

Post10 Feb 2015

According to Islam, their god spirit would be considered at least a Jinn.

Absolutely not.

The BKs consider Muhammed to be relatively low on the spiritual scale, to have reincarnated on earth many times, and to be completely impure, degraded and trapped in matter.

Neither he nor any Muslim get to go to paradise.

BKism is basically a spirit worship religion derived from the teachings of spirits and Hinduism.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Islam and BK

Post11 Feb 2015

Absolutely not. Islam is built on God's revelation to Mohammed and naming him "the final prophet” in the line of prophets of al-Khitab (the people of the book, including the jews and Christians).

Anyone after Mohamed who claims that God speaks through him is considered a blasphemer and must be punished. e.g. the founder of the ba’hai was imprisoned and then exiled, and died under house arrest. Followers today are persecuted in many countries a sheretics.

If the BKs made their claims openly in some of the countries they operate in e.g. the middle east, where they attract the Indian ex-patriot workers, they would be evicted or jailed.
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ex-l

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Re: Islam and BK

Post11 Feb 2015

In essence, the BKs say Lekhraj Kirpalani is the only true prophet of God, the only one who God enters and speaks through, and that Mohammed must come to them to learn his religion.

The BKs believe Mohammed had two souls inside him, himself - an older soul that had taken many previous births - and a moderately new soul who came down from the Soul World to start a new religion. And they see him as inferior to Abraham, Buddha, Jesus etc who came before him.
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Re: Islam and BK

Post11 Feb 2015

Both extraordinary claims. Can both beliefs be true? Can either be verified independent of faith?

Logic says, ”both Islam and BKs make exclusive claims”, i.e. each one makes claims that the other is not compatible with. Both cannot be true. Either Mohamed is the direct and final prophet of God, or Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) is.

So, the answer to your question, "are BKs compatible with Islam” - by each one’s definition and what each asks you to believe of the other, the answer must be ”No".
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Re: Islam and BK

Post19 Feb 2015

Thank you very much for all those who replied to my post.

I am also expecting some BKs visiting this forum to post their opinions.

I am a Muslim and had started inclining towards BKs and their early morning videos on youtube called "Essence of Murli" and had started deriving parallel points from Quran and Murlis, to me each was an explanation to the other, until I hit this site.

I read some of the ex BK experiences in and out of the BKs here. My present state is that I am confused , there is so much good in the Murlis to be denied and at the same time so many negative experiences by those who spent years with the BKs which also cannot be ignored.

The BK claim that Muhammed (pbuh), will not enter paradise is unacceptable to any Muslim as is it to me.

Interestingly, the BK claim that Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) is the founder of Islam is true in a way that the Quran mentions that it was he who named those who follow in his way as Muslims, and the word Islam and Muslim is derived from the same root word which means 'to submit'.
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Re: Islam and BK

Post20 Feb 2015

Nearly all religious and spiritual paths will have crossover and overlaps with others, so you will find much that is acceptable in any group you go to that you will agree with. if you go with a desire to see the positive you will see that, if you go with a desire to see the negative, you will see that.

Seeing the islamic viewpoint of Abraham is understandable. Remember the founder of BKs grew up surrounded by sufis, sikhs, christians, gurus, vedanta scholars. But not Jews, hence the early ommission, corrected decades later, of Judaism. And still no mention of a quarter of the world’s population - the chinese and other orientals with Tao, Confucianism, Shinto etc.

The Gyan is one man’s attempt at making sense of it all in ways that suit his impulse to believe that he is Krisna incarnate (he started the movement in the 1930s believing he himself was god, then in the 1950s changed that to say he was the Chariot (medium) of the God spirit, i.e. channeling God - which is anathema (heresy) to any Muslim.

The mystics of all traditions know that getting caught in the words (fundamentalism and literalism) does not reveal the truth to the aspirant, indeed it can obscure it further due to an intellectual arrogance that ”I understand what this means and others don’t”.

So, separate out that which is unique to the BK Gyan or to Islam or to Buddhism etc and what you have left is what is universal - similar teachings on basic moral behaviour, charity, humility. All good.

Then examine what makes each one unique, that which separates one religion from the others, and see if that definign feature is necessary or agreeable.

I think anyone who looks dispassionately (seeing objectively for what it is, not wanting it to be ‘good’ or ‘bad') and rationally at what distinguishes (defines) the BK teachings from others that include similar ”universal truths” or ”motherhood statements” will see there is a lot in common but a lot that is 'questionable'.

I’d say there are even ”deal breakers” in most religions - i.e. completely unacceptable teachings, where one religion’s chalk is the other’s cheese - depending on what criteria you bring.

That goes even for someone who believes in the Vedas, vedanta etc, let alone for a true Muslim or true Christian etc.
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ex-l

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Re: Islam and BK

Post20 Feb 2015

D.F. stands for "Divine Father". This is a clip from the BKs' first "Tree of Humanity" when their god did not know the difference between Judaism and Islam. Mohammed was just one amongst many religious founder, all of whom they teach were acharyas or "chariots (spirit mediums) for another "pure" soul to enter and start teaching its religion. In essence, Mohammed was not the founder but at most a co-founder long with this other spirit guide.

There is a chance that the BKs believe Mohammed was a reincarnated BK soul who was then in a latter birth possessed in this way. I've not actually heard them say that of him but I have heard them say it of Christ. I do though actually know that they teach Mohammed and this other unnamed soul have taken many re-births on earth since his first and is now in a totally degrade, impure state.

They believe that he must come back to the BKWSU to relearn religion but unlike the Hindu BKs, he will only take part of the teachings, that specifically he is below Abraham and Christ.

The BKs have adopted many benign sounding New Age philosophies as *marketing* to suck people in, but there core teachings are different. Their teachings and practises arise from and involve various Jinn speaking through their spirit mediums.

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Pink Panther

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Re: Islam and BK

Post20 Feb 2015

There is a chance that the BKs believe Mohammed was a reincarnated BK soul who was then in a latter birth possessed in this way. I've not actually heard them say that of him but I have heard them say it of Christ.
The BK teaching is that 'two souls' are involved in establishing the major religions. It has the ”Chariot” (the D.F.) being an older, degraded "deity soul” with a first-birth soul entering and co-inhabiting/ When the D.F. has his revelation is the timing of the ”second soul” entering.

For example, according to this teaching: when the Bible describes the Holy Spirit entering Jesus at his baptism at the hands of his cousin John (the Baptist), according to the BKs, that really is another human, first-birth, soul entering Jesus. The BKs say that is "the Christ soul” entering Jesus, whereas ”the Christ” literally means 'the anointed one’.
(Anthony Strano was big on this teaching because it helped him ”understand” and integrate the Christian story in a way that was consistent with his wanting to believe how it could be God that enters Lekhraj).

According to this BK teaching, Mohammed did not really see or hear the Angel Gabriel but was entered (possessed) by a ”first birth soul” whom he ”interpreted" as being the archangel.

Shakyamuni Gautama Siddhartha did not actually become the Buddha (the Awakened one / the Enlightened one) rather it was a 'first birth soul’ that enters him. This means, ironically, that he who taught Anatta (Skt: Anatman) i.e. ”no immortal self” supposedly had two immortal souls inhabiting that human being!

(Just like we have many micro-organisms inhabiting us which influence our health and well-being, state of mind and behaviour. Are they ”spirits” too? First birth bacteria? LOL :-D

Mohammed himself, like Jesus and Prince Siddhartha, were ”older deity souls” who ”took The Knowledge in the previous Sangam Yuga / the last Kalpa” and remember only parts of it when the ”new soul” enters them and triggers the revelation which is an incomplete and deformed memory of Gyan. Addendum:For Mohammed, BKs say that it is not the Archangel Gabriel that relays the Koran from Allah to Mohammed, but another soul, a ”pure first birth soul” entering him that ”inspires” him.

The Abraham story is that his name was at first ”Abram” then he heard God speaking to him and he took his people westwards etc and his name became ”Abraham” - the BKs say this ”god speaking” was actually a second soul entering him.

All of these BK overlays onto what each religion itself believes occurred shows how they are each, by definition, not fully compatible with BK beliefs. i.e. you cannot believe both versions are true


The BK theory then goes on to say that after the death of that prophet, the two souls both play different parts in sustaining that relgion in later incarnations. That is, it is all speculation, nothing but faith makes it true. Take it or leave it.

You have to admit, there are may kooky rationalisations and 'conspiracy theories' in the world exploiting the religious myths people are emotionally influenced by and drawn to when trying to understand ”the big questions”. Lekhraj and his cohort took a few decades to refine theirs to the point where it made coherent sense to them in their corner of the world.
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Re: Islam and BK

Post21 Feb 2015

Pink Panther wrote:[i]Anthony Strano was big on this teaching because it helped him ”understand” and integrate the Christian story in a way that was consistent with his wanting to believe how it could be God that enters Lekhraj.

I think you nail it right there ... "his wanting to believe".

But how and when did this idea evolve within BKism?

It seems from the very beginning the BKs felt a need to elevate Lekhraj Kirpalani to a status equal to and then greater than Jesus and Mohammed etc, first as 'their' Divine Father and then later, sometime after 1955, as a twin soul medium of another spirit.

Then Jesus and Mohammed etc were relegated to a lower status, as medium of other "hellish" Copper and Iron Age spirits, whereas Lekhraj Kirpalani was elevated to the only true medium of God of all.

There something exceptionally vain and self-centred about both Lekhraj Kirpalani's and the BKs' mentality that they could make such claims about themselves.
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Re: Islam and BK

Post02 Mar 2015

Thanks for replying and clearing my doubts.

Since the BKs believe that it was a pure soul teaching the Prophets , then why were these pure souls allowing things considered impure by the BKs, like the Quran brought down by Gibrael allows and encourages marriage (non-celibate) and non-veg food, how do the BKs reply to this?
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ex-l

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Re: Islam and BK

Post02 Mar 2015

search wrote:Thanks for replying and clearing my doubts.
Since the BKs believe that it was a pure soul teaching the Prophets , then why were these pure souls allowing things considered impure by the BKs ,
like the Quran brought down by Gibrael allows and encourages marriage ( noncelibate) and non-veg food , how do the BKs reply to this ?

Ah, you've got to read the 'fine print' ... according to the BKs, not all souls are equal. Every soul is "numberwise" and according to spiritual rank.

According to the Brahma Kumaris, although the soul who founded Islam, who possessed the body of Mohammed to work through him, was "pure" ... it"s spiritual power was relatively low or weak.

"Pure" really means nothing in this context, "first birth" would be the more clear term for its status.

Whereas if at the point of Lekhraj Kirpalani's first birth, his soul was 100% powerful ... the soul who established the Muslim faith would only be about 33% powerful.

Whereas Lekhraj Kirpalani's first birth 5,000 years was in Heaven on Earth, a state it enjoys for 2,500 years ... the soul who established the Muslim faith would only ever experience the time after The Fall which BKs consider to be Hell on Earth.

But remember, the BKs teach that there were two souls in Mohammed's body. Mohammed's and this other "first birth" soul (same as with the Jesus soul and the Christ soul).

BK do not teach or believe that there were any Angels in history prior to this time and that they are the true angels. Therefore they would argue that Gabriel would probably be this other spirit entering Mohammed to teach through him.

Mohammed, they would say, would have been - say - 60% spiritually powerful (I've never heard them put an exact figure on it) because they believe he was a reincarnated Brahma Kumari who would have experienced a little bit of the end of Heaven on Earth and then taken many more births before being possessed by the Gabriel/Muslim religion founder soul.

Two souls, one body.

As Mohammed was a relatively low BK soul and the Gabriel/Muslim religion founder soul even lower ... this would be the explanation for their impure or "wrong" teachings. Firstly, both souls would have to come to the BKs to learn spirituality/religion. Neither soul would be a good student and both only take a fraction of the whole teachings.

Therefore, when they come back to Earth to start their religion, they only have an imperfect version of it and act only to balance other religious tendencies going on, e.g. to restore monotheism against the forces of polytheism (Hinduism) and atheism (Buddhism etc).

Mohammed, according to the BKs, was definitely not the final prophet soul and not even a perfect one.

These are the core teachings of the Brahma Kumaris. These are not what they might expose to newcomers to the religion for many weeks or months. I don't know what they are teaching in the Middle East but I suspect they have removed this part completely there. That is what they do ..."The Art of Concealing and Revealing".

Further Islam is not the path to God nor is it the path of release. Only Brahma Kumarism is, to them. Both Mohammed and the Gabriel/Muslim religion founder soul will have taken perhaps 30 reincarnations (approx) and still be alive on earth today when they will find their way back to the BKs to relearn religion from the BKs, so that in 3,000 years time they will take re-birth again and do it all again, time and time, for eternity.

Neither Mohammed nor the Gabriel/Muslim religion founder soul will even have a direct relationship with God, or be the final and most accurate prophet as Lekhraj Kirpalani was. That is the core of BK belief.

Of course, that won't stop them targeting wealthy Muslims and initiating them into their meditation, and taking money and property off them.

The Brahma Kumaris are more interested in profits than prophets.
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Re: Islam and BK

Post02 Mar 2015

Haha nice one ex-l ...
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Pink Panther

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Re: Islam and BK

Post03 Mar 2015

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there" - L.P. Hartley.

How people understand stories from the past or other cultures (or both) is based on their own culture. Indeed, the study of history and anthropology is about understanding a culture by observing by what measures and values that culture used/uses to live by, how they structure their societies and to explain the world around them.

The culture of 19th & early 20th century Sindh included competing religions - both established and new, paradigms of social & religious hierarchy, occultism & spiritualism (spirit possession, siddhas) and celebrating charismatic gurus or VIPs, along with a bourgeoning nationalism and divided attitudes to the colonial power (as ex-l has so eloquently shared in other posts).

In relation to this topic and where it’s gone in terms of the BK ”two souls in one body", one modern variation of the religious impulse is the interpretation by some that divine beings (gods, angels, djinn etc) are extra-terrestrials, aliens from other planets, who are "guiding" us from afar or with occassional visitations (and obviously not doing an ideal job of it!).

In this modern secular world, we can just as easily look back at religious stories and, instead of considering that there were ”two souls in one body”, or that certain people were possessed by spirits or had visions and revelations, or were visited by aliens, we might say they had episodes of schizophrenia (hearing voices), or split personality disorder, or forms of mania, or tapped into the collective unconscious, etc.

BTW - some BKs of Christian background, like Anthony Strano and Veronica (Waddy) McHugh, also extended the "two soul theory” and speculated that it applies to St Paul of Tarsus (formerly known as Saul - who fell of his horse, hit his head and had a vision of Jesus) and other figures (eg Mary at the Annunciation).

Which paradigm we are drawn to, or decide at stages in our lives, reveals a lot about us and our ”enculturation”.
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