Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

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awakening

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Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post11 Feb 2015

First, I would like to thank you all for your views.

IMHO, criticism for any view is natural in these times. Most of us are calibrated differently in these times. As the words of wisdom go "it's nobody's fault, its the eternal world drama"...

Questions will rise naturally until the satisfaction of feasibility and truth is experienced for oneself.

I believe there are some misconceptions, such as:
...except for India and where Brahma Kumari mediation centers are currently positioned.

from my understanding, the important truth is that all souls that are closest to God will be eternally blessed; as for geographic areas, it is a misunderstanding that only India (or the entire India) will survive, parts of other masses of land all over the world will also survive ...
... because the ideas of God Lekhraj Kirpalani designs are so ridiculously impossible...

from my understanding, neither Dada Lekhraj nor any true follower of his teachings would claim he was/is "God", so I assume it is your own belief ...
OK, Destruction was meant to be in 1986 (actually, WWII, 1950, 1976 too...

as far as I know, dates floating around are speculations of individuals, I have not come across a Murli where a "date" is mentioned ...
...the Advance Party have establish secret laboratories high up in the Himalayas funded by the secret wealth of Nepalese royal or something?!?

where did u get that from?!
So you have thoroughly examined the theory, processes and practice of elementary particle physics and organic chemistry...

looks interesting: http://www.debate.org/debates/Radiometr ... ccurate/3/

Dear souls, my point is that until the time comes when one sees it or feels it or experiences it in some way, it is hard to convince oneself of some "radical theory". I firmly believe that the time is approaching rapidly for everyone.

Thought for the day: "Give birth to new possibilities through your ability to reach into the future and let go of the past."
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ex-l

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Re: wakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post12 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:from my understanding ...

You don't have any "understanding". You don't even have - or rather you were deliberately not given - true and accurate information. You're recycling the half-truths and out right lies told to you by middle ranking BKs who were themselves lied to by the Seniors.

Here are the 'facts' ... no "opinion" required (please do not insult me).

There was no mention of God Shiva in the BKs until some point after 1955. From 1932 until then, Lekhraj Kirpalani was their God. God Prajapati Brahma.

All of the dates given were given directly by the god of the BKs and referred to in the Murlis (and Divine Decrees) of the day. Those have since been covered up, changed to hide "god's" failing and hidden.

What you have parroted is what they tell you to stop you thinking and questioning but is false. You need to go read some of the old, original materials in the Library. You will discover that what I am telling you is true and that you have been lied to and manipulated by the BKs.

Regarding the issues of "dates", how many original Murlis have you seen? All the Murlis you have seen have been edited and re-written many times. Why? Why don't they allow you to see the originals?

No on has ever state he gave a "date" ... he did not. He gave specific 'years'; 1950, 1976, 1986, 1986 to 1996 etc. The leaders said Year 2000. Before you embarrass yourself any further, there are people here who were in Gyan during those last 5 and can verify it. There are also copies of 1950 and 1976 decrees and Murli in the library.

Screen shot 2015-02-12 at 00.40.04.jpg

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The blah blah about all souls being close is also hogwash. The most elevated souls were those who were born closest to Lekhraj Kirpalani for all their births right up until their last one. The "original jewels". What you've been fed is just recent marketing. Salespitch.
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awakening

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Re: wakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post12 Feb 2015

Dear Soul,

I have no such intention:
... (please do not insult me).

Rather, the para below sounds to have that tone towards a number of people:
You don't have any "understanding". You don't even have - or rather you were deliberately not given - true and accurate information. You're recycling the half-truths and out right lies told to you by middle ranking BKs who were themselves lied to by the Seniors.

However, I did not feel bad at all, rather very different! And I am sure so would they ...

I do have a few questions about the following lines, though, if you don't mind:
Here are the 'facts' ... no "opinion" required...
All the Murlis you have seen have been edited and re-written many times.

    1. How is it that you think that your "opinions" are "facts" and other differing opinions are "fiction"?

    2. Did you meet Dada Lekhraj in person (face-to-face/conversation)?

    3. Do you think editing literature necessarily changes the important points and their value?

    4. Do you think there is any literature that has a significant audience that has not been edited? I feel editing may sometimes be required, recommended and beneficial as long as the core concepts and the key takeaways don't change.

    5. Do you think all BKs and BK teachers are equally calibrated in terms of their understanding and practices?
The most elevated souls were those who were born closest to Lekhraj Kirpalani for all their births right up until their last one. The "original jewels".

If you really believe that part, then I think we are on the same page regarding my point number 5 above.
What you have parroted is what they tell you to stop you thinking and questioning ...

I have been a "believer" (meaning I have not yet been able to completely follow the teachings) for more than 15 years now and have been lucky to meet few senior teachers and members. I have always questioned things I don't understand and I never came across any BK who discouraged thinking and questioning. I do understand if you or even some other souls have been discouraged by some BKs. Again, I do not take every single word coming out of every single soul who we assume to be BKs to be the ultimate truth.

Also, I would like to share with you what I personally believe (you may or may not care):

I believe that there exist souls, who may or may not be a BK, who are truly enlightened, or are close to true enlightenment. These are the souls closest to God and are the most powerful.

The rest have varying degree of enlightenment (partial enlightenment) and thus they will see only the partial truth and thus can tell you only so much.

This is the reason I said that one has to experience the truth for oneself, going beyond what one has understood through listening about it from someone or reading about it somewhere. Only then can one be sure.

This is also my answer to the question of "Original Murli" - I believe there are only three ways any soul can get "Original Murli" in the present time with certainty:
1. "Connecting" directly with Almighty God and "receiving it" from Him
2. "Connecting" with Brahma Baba and "receiving it" from him
3. Collecting "all" facts right from origin till date from first-hand sources

My approach is a combination of all the above. However, since these methods are not always easily achievable for me, I also collect info from other sources and filter them according to my evolving understandings and capabilities.

May God help you find true enlightenment! Om Shanti!
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ex-l

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Re: Dinosaurs and the fossil record

Post12 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:Another point is that I feel that some souls have developed a notion that only BKs claim to know the truth ... I believe that there exist souls, who may or may not be a BK, who are truly enlightened, or are close to true enlightenment. These are the souls closest to God and are the most powerful.


You may we do ... but that's not what the BKs believe and teach. They are absolutely clear about their religion's and leaders' superiority.

So, what's your point ... the BK leaders are wrong and not enlightened? Give me an example of any BK leader who is! Are you pushing some other BK splinter group, or BK fringe beliefs?

"15 years" means you only came across the BKs around 1999 ... and basically the only sources of information about the BKs you have are the BKs?

Why "facts" ... because those statements I made are evidenced. You came on repeating verbatim the lies and half-truths the BKs have been telling for decades, e.g. "our god never gave a date for Destruction" or blaming follower for bad estimates. That is just not true.

He did. Fact.

Same to re Lekhraj Kirpalani being god. Fact. There was no god Shiva in BKism until after 1955. Lekhraj Kirpalani was God Brahma, Krishna and Vishnu. If you have read BK histories, they are falsified.

Do you believe people who falsify, exaggerate and whitewash their past? Or who lie about such important issue as "god's incarnation on earth"?

Did I meet Lekhraj Kirpalani? No, I took 'The Knowledge in 1981.

But I do/did know or speak to old Sindhis, both BK and non-BK, who did know him, and discovered many old, original documents and reports the BKs tried to cover up and destroy that revealed much about them ... in particular just how much they fabricate.

Have you read them yet?

Your theories re "enlightenment" are your own and not BKism. I am not actually suggesting they are wrong, just that they are not inline with BK beliefs. We really only deal with BKism here. However, because of their endemic dishonesty, manipulativeness and exaggerated self-worth, I would argue that no BKs are that high spiritually. I would say BKism is at a relatively low level spiritually.

That last sentence is largely opinion but based on the idea that you cannot make an Age of Truth and purity out of lies and impurity. Correct me if I am wrong.

Not one atom of my being believes that the spirit guide of the BKs is "God". You may well have a connection with God, don't confuse it with the BKs' version.
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awakening

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Re: wakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post13 Feb 2015

Dear Soul,

Thank you once again for sharing your views.

By now I am quite convinced that somehow you have been receiving false information and/or have not been able to experience the truth for yourself. I hope you are aware of few other groups who claim to be "better BKs" or "true BKs" or "advanced BKs".

I have been fortunate to get the company of BK teachers and members who completely agree with my beliefs, the ones I shared with you. In fact, this is what my teachers teach.

Also, I have not met any BK in my life so far who told me that "BK is the only way to attain truth" or "Brahma Baba is God" or anything like what apparently you have been hearing.

There are multiple opinions I saw in this forum by multiple souls which do not corroborate with the teachings imparted by the university in general and which I have gathered over the years.

Right from the first moment I walked into my town's local center till this moment, I have felt the presence of truth and power in the learning I have gathered.

Although these differences sound disappointing, I am sure the time is fast approaching when this will change.
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ex-l

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Re: wakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post13 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:Thank you once again for sharing your views.

By now I am quite convinced that somehow you have been receiving false information ...

You are absolutely wrong.

All you have to do is go back to the original documents and read them for yourself. Have you read any of the early documents from the 1940s and 50s?

What has happened is that over the decades the BKs have revised and re-written their teaching and create a polished facade, a front to market themselves with, that you have swallowed 100%. Until you are properly hooked, they will allow you to believe whatever you want.

Probably your so called "teachers only came into Gyan 15 or 20 years ago too. They are very junior and have been misled for their entire time in The Knowledge by the Seniors.

The fact that you are unable to accept that is evidence of how deluded you are. You cannot see BKism as it is ... and especially how it was. There was no God Shiva in BKism in 1936 ... not until after 1955. You are sort of confused between Hinduism and BKism.

Tell me, do you follow Shrimat ... e.g. Amrit Vela and have you attended morning class for any of the last 15 years? You must only had been a child of 16 or so when you met the BKs. Are your mother or family members involved?

How deeply are you involved?

If you only knew at which BK teachers feet I and others here sat and studied under, you'd realise how insulting and embarrassing your comments are.

For example, Confluence Age was 40 years (1976) ...

40.jpg


And stated clearly ... (from 1971)

5-years.jpg
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Earlier, from the 1940s ...

Aham-brahm-asmi-2.jpg

awakening wrote:... it is a misunderstanding that only India (or the entire India) will survive, parts of other masses of land all over the world will also survive ...

Specifically, rgw BKs and their god spirit always taught all other continents except for India would sink below the ocean, as foreign expansion started, he modified that to say, literally, that where there had been BK centres, there would be islands for the Golden Aged deities to fly to, to picnic on by their mind control, nuclear powered flying machines. You often say pictures of Krishna stood on an India with the rest of the globe covered in water. Strangely, the BKs were some kind of neo-nationalist group.

Have they changed that again?
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leonard

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post14 Feb 2015

Hello awakening ... It is indicated that you are an innocent follower and I suggest you visit http://www.moreaboutbrahmakumaris.org providing you with good news from old BK Brother.
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awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post14 Feb 2015

Dear Souls,

Thank you for your views.
You've applied some critical rigour to investigate things like dating methods. Please apply at least that same degree of critical rigour to the claims made by BKs. Your life direction depends on it.

Thanks for the acknowledgement. As for the "claims" made by BK, I've come across none. In the past 15 years, I have just absorbed their "teachings" by listening to BK teachers and by reading materials online and offline.
NOTHING is known for certain.

This is relatively true. And in any case, the only way to know something for certain is by experiencing that something for oneself. And in such a case, only the person who experiences that something will know that something for certain, not other people, unless they experience it for themselves individually.
You really don't know what the BKs teach.

Obviously, you and I have been going to quite distinct and different organizations, apparently both labelled as "BK" centers, because I see so much being discussed by so many souls as yourself which I have never heard of in BK centers I have been visiting or from BKs that I have been meeting personally.

Another point I wish to share is that, by definition, anything that any person believes that cannot be verified by a person, or proven, in the current time is a "potential theory". And it is a matter of personal choice and understanding to believe in any of the several possible theories.

So "scientific" issues like "dating" and "creation of the universe" and what any person did or said decades ago - all these are theories because they cannot be proven, at least not yet.
I suspect you don't even know what a "reliable sources" is. You've learnt the language but not the meaning.

:p really?! :)

Anyways, for starters, did you check the team behind that site you are referring to? and are you saying that just because of that one reference, all other references are to be ignored?

Furthermore, for me "science" and "spirituality" are two sides of the same coin - of trying to make sense of the things within and around us.

Finally, I am not "trying to convince" anyone of anything. I know that time will reveal the truth to all.

"Satyamev Jayate" - Truth alone triumphs!
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awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post14 Feb 2015

Dear Souls,

Thank you for sharing your views.
...but that's not what the BKs believe and teach. They are absolutely clear about their religion's and leaders' superiority.

Obviously, you and I have been going to quite distinct and different organizations, apparently both labelled as "BK" centers, because I see so much being discussed by so many souls as yourself which I have never heard of in BK centers I have been visiting or from BKs that I have been meeting personally.
Are you pushing some other BK splinter group, or BK fringe beliefs?

I am not "pushing" anything to anyone. Everything exists for everyone. Just so that your confusion is cleared, I "believe" in the teachings of and thus try to follow the teachings of the "BK WSU" lead by Dadi Janki and other senior BKs.
Give me an example of any BK leader who is!

I don't feel the need to give you an example because I think it is pretty apparent. But I do feel you have not met Dadi Janki personally (face to face).
Please don't post the same post twice.

Imagine that there is a house in which one person named "Ram" lives. In the same house, a cat named "Cathy" also lives. Now one day a boy asks a person in the village where "Ram" lives. So the villager tells the boy the address of the house. The next day, another boy asks the same villager where "Cathy" lives, and so the villager gave the same answer.

Happy enlightenment! Om Shanti!
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post14 Feb 2015

Well, this is going to scientifically prove to you how inaccurate your "feelings" are, and how little you can trust them ...
awakening wrote: I do feel you have not met Dadi Janki personally (face to face).

When I was a BK, Dadi Janki was the center-in-charge of our centre (London). I sat at her feet morning after morning and attend private class after private class.

I was also for a while a member of the Murli team translating and publishing them.

I think you are mistaking the BKWSU marketing ... their vague and lightweight public talks ... for their actual teachings. On top of which, if you and your family are wealthy, they will be feeding you a 'softer' version of the teachings to keep you and your money close.
Thanks for the acknowledgement. As for the "claims" made by BK, I've come across none. In the past 15 years, I have just absorbed their "teachings" by listening to BK teachers and by reading materials online and offline ...
Obviously, you and I have been going to quite distinct and different organizations ... because I see so much being discussed by so many souls as yourself which I have never heard of in BK centers I have been visiting or from BKs that I have been meeting personally.

Have you done the full introductory course?

Have you ever attended morning class on a regular basis?
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post14 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:So "scientific" issues like "dating" ... and what any person did or said decades ago - all these are theories because they cannot be proven, at least not yet.

If someone wrote or recorded something and it was published and dated, then it is not "theory", it's factual evidence. We have factual evidence of the BKs widespread falsification. Is that divine?
Anyways, for starters, did you check the team behind that site you are referring to? and are you saying that just because of that one reference, all other references are to be ignored?

I looked at two of the sites, they were both written by Christian fundamentalist trying to prove God made the Earth in 6 Days and that Noah and the Flood was a true history.

Neither were proving the BKs' 5,000 Year Cycle and other beliefs. You might say they were proving the BKs wrong too, so what's your point? BK or Biblical?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post15 Feb 2015

Well, slap me with a moldy turnip and color me flabbergasted!

Don’t you love it when people like (cough) Awakening (cough cough) come along so cock-sure that what they believe is right, no-one else knows as much, their (present) experience is valid and of course things as they see them have always been that way.

They believe (their understanding of) the BK teachings, but not even all of the teachings, because, like the modern consumers they are, Truth is a product with many brands, and it’s disposable, and God is what you choose god to be,

They are open-minded free thinkers, while even God Shiva herself, doesn't understand her own teachings, nor the BKs themselves get it fully right. As for ex-BKs, they all must have something wrong with them or have a chip on the shoulder.

Such naivety makes no attempt to ascertain the experience or knowledge of others here, presumes its own ‘awakening' is clearer and more profound than anyone else’s because of attending a few programs & classes, read some literature, was patted on the head by some senior and have lapped up the PR doggerel given to outsiders, so now think they are insiders.

They did that to all of us mate, we got sucked in and became more dedicated and full-on practitioners than you can comprehend. We were the teachers, we know many of the Seniors and decision makers well. We know how the BK culture and system works. We know the history.

Old Hindi aphorism ”Like the mouse who found a grain of turmeric powder so he thought he’d open a grocery store....”

Your contribution here is best done by providing news on the current state and ways of the BKs. That it seems so different (to outsiders and to the past) implies a great deal when it is supposed to be ”God’ herself teaching.
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post15 Feb 2015

Pink Panther wrote:Don’t you love it when people like (cough) Awakening (cough cough) come along so cock-sure that what they believe is right ...

Your contribution here is best done by providing news on the current state and ways of the BKs.

Or they could just apologise, admit they were wrong, start to awake to *how* wrong they are. I wonder if that is enough for them to see that they actually have something to learn here?

And before you fall flat on your face, Awakening, Pink Panther's involvement in the BKs goes back as far as when the cult was so small one used to have one on one meetings with BapDada, aka "God". Of which he had many.

She was witty at times, a natural entertainer playing the guru role ... and good at pulling money out of people ... but would get irritated with people if they asked questions she couldn't answer and was not above humiliating people in public.

Of course, now we know she was part of the inner circle conspiracy duping BK followers about history of the religion etc and corrupting the teachings for the sake of the business.
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awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post15 Feb 2015

Dear Soul,
If someone wrote or recorded something and it was published and dated, then it is not "theory", it's factual evidence.

Well, taking into consideration your skepticism about other publications, and your opinion that teachings of the BKWSU are forged, how can you be "sure" that any other publication is not?

Here is a story for you:

A boy was reading about science and its quest to understand nature. He read how, throughout history, great souls contributed toward discovering so much about our bodies and our earth. He learned how people started to wonder about the sky and heavens above and the universe.

However, he also learned that there is so much that science is not yet able to explain and even things that science does not know (for certain), only making the "best educated guess" about them.

One such topic that caught his imagination was the topic of "what is below the earth" or "what is at the center of the earth". He learned that the current assumptions about the earth's inside were arrived at by merely observing seismic data and geo-magnetic data. He learned that human beings have been able to physically reach only less than 3 miles below the earth's surface.

He thought to himself "well, in that case science is just making a guess based on certain observations and the guess is accepted by most people because there is no other "scientific" theory that support the facts, and thus it is not necessary that it is correct."

He decided to ask different people about what they think is beneath the earth. He started with his school teacher and continues to gather views from an assortment of people, including religious, non-religious, scientific and non-scientific types of people.

He was amazed that so many of them had distinct ideas about this topic, and each one seemed to provide considerable amount of reasoning and logic about their beliefs, even taking into consideration the seismic and geo-magnetic data.

Finally, he understood that there are certain realms beyond the reach of science, and we either have to ignore them or formulate a certain theory around them, and how we do this is totally on us, because there are some things for which there is no proof.

Happy enlightenment! Om Shanti!
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Pink Panther

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post15 Feb 2015

Which brings up back to - as new facts emerge, being ready to change one's mind, and being ”provisionally certain”.

Is it more useful to theorise about the centre of the earth based on the best available evidence, or to ignore the best available evidence because it contradicts what you want to be true?
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